If Iran closed the Strait of Hormuz

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Replies

  • frankfrank Posts: 13,292 AG
    tag
    do you consider our actions against iran, past and present, acts of war?
    No political signature
  • dstockwelldstockwell Posts: 13,782 AG
    tag wrote: »
    I agree

    It's good you agree with what I said about Captain Will Rogers III.
    It is not the responsibility of the United States to solve the problems of other countries.
  • Michael RepperMichael Repper Posts: 4,897 Officer
    tag wrote: »

    But the thread subject is not - Do you support terroist nations.

    That's a real tickler right there! Terrorist nations? No other on this Earth could ever begin to compete with us on that front! We can't help but to vaporize a couple hundred thousand civilians every time we try and help some poor nation of people that are suffering under the thumb of one of the dictators we've supported.

    But that's certainly beside the point that you are pulling nonsense out of your rear end and calling it facts. Please do go back to the part of your story where the ship was under attack by EIGHT Iranian ships when it mistakenly shot down a civilian airliner, we'd like to hear some more.
  • tagtag Posts: 8,808 Admiral
    frank wrote: »
    tag
    do you consider our actions against iran, past and present, acts of war?

    Are you talking about when 52 Americans occupied Iranian prision cells for 444 days?

    The thread subject isn't are our actions against iran acts of war. The question is:

    If Iran closed the Strait of Hormuz would that be an act of war?
  • frankfrank Posts: 13,292 AG
    no, never question our actions
    well i'd say we have been waging a proxy war against iran since 1953 so given that, if they closed the straits it would be in defense against the aggressive actions of us


    by the way we and england have threatened to close the straits ourselves in the past to stop exports from iran
    we have interfered with our nations shipping access before
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  • dstockwelldstockwell Posts: 13,782 AG
    tag wrote: »
    If Iran closed the Strait of Hormuz would that be an act of war?

    For those whose shipments could be interrupted maybe - for the U.S. nope.
    It is not the responsibility of the United States to solve the problems of other countries.
  • CaptBobBryantCaptBobBryant Posts: 5,716 Officer
    tag wrote: »
    Would that be an act of war?

    I don't know, if we closed the Straits of Florida would that be an act of war?

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  • riverdiverriverdiver Posts: 2,018 Captain
    When questioned in a 2000 BBC documentary, the U.S. government stated in a written answer that they believed the incident may have been caused by a simultaneous psychological condition amongst the 18 bridge crew of the Vincennes called 'scenario fulfillment', which is said to occur when persons are under pressure. In such a situation, the men will carry out a training scenario, believing it to be reality while ignoring sensory information that contradicts the scenario. In the case of this incident, the scenario was an attack by a lone military aircraft.[21]


    "National Geographic Channel broadcast a documentary on this incident titled "Mistaken Identity"[19] as an episode of its Mayday (aka: Air Crash Investigation) series (Season 3, Episode 5); the documentary confirmed that the airliner was transmitting an Identification friend or foe code for a civilian aircraft"

    It's always easy to play Monday morning QB after the fact.

    Was it a mistake? Most definitely. Mistakes happen, unfortunately. That doesn't make it right, but at least it needs to be looked at in context.

    The plane that was shot down was 11 miles away, and the crew was running out of time to make a decision. They had the Aegis on manual control instead of automatic firing, and had to make a decision right then whether or not to fire. Someone miinterpreted the information, and the Skipper had to decide right then whether or not to fire, risking not only his ship...but other ships.

    Those that are overly critical of the Skipper's decision likely have never had to make a life or death decision in their lifetimes...
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 969 Officer
    If Iran closed the Strait of Hormuz
    tag wrote: »
    Would that be an act of war?

    against whom?
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 10,104 AG
    frank wrote: »
    tag
    do you consider our actions against iran, past and present, acts of war?

    Do you consider attacking, occupying a embassy and holding and threatining to kill a diplomatic staff a act of war?
    2013 Pathfinder 22 TE , 150 Yamaha,
  • Michael RepperMichael Repper Posts: 4,897 Officer
    mustang190 wrote: »
    Do you consider attacking, occupying a embassy and holding and threatining to kill a diplomatic staff a act of war?

    That happened about 26 years AFTER we overthrew their government and installed a dictator.
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 10,104 AG
    That's a real tickler right there! Terrorist nations? No other on this Earth could ever begin to compete with us on that front! We can't help but to vaporize a couple hundred thousand civilians every time we try and help some poor nation of people that are suffering under the thumb of one of the dictators we've supported.

    But that's certainly beside the point that you are pulling nonsense out of your rear end and calling it facts. Please do go back to the part of your story where the ship was under attack by EIGHT Iranian ships when it mistakenly shot down a civilian airliner, we'd like to hear some more.

    I guess a invasion of the Japanese mainland would have been your first choice? Good thing you were not and are not in charge of anything! And the fact that if that would have happened you would probably not have even been born. The two bombs saved more lives than they ever took. Wise up and educate yourself.
    As far as the USS Vincennes goes, a captain's first priority is the protection of his ship and crew! You like others are nothing more than monday morning QB's.
    2013 Pathfinder 22 TE , 150 Yamaha,
  • Michael RepperMichael Repper Posts: 4,897 Officer
    The 1953 Iranian coup d'état (known in Iran as the 28 Mordad coup[3]) was the overthrow of the democratically elected government of Iranian Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh on 19 August 1953, orchestrated by the intelligence agencies of the United Kingdom and the United States under the name TPAJAX Project.[4] The coup saw the transition of Mohammad-Rezā Shāh Pahlavi from a constitutional monarch to an authoritarian one who relied heavily on United States support to hold on to power until his own overthrow in February 1979.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 10,104 AG

    That happened about 26 years AFTER we overthrew their government and installed a dictator.

    So whats you point? "WE" overthrew their Govt.? Open a history book and read what was actually going on back then. I will give you a little hint, USSR. But I'm sure you have no idea what those letters stand for or what they were after then.
    2013 Pathfinder 22 TE , 150 Yamaha,
  • beach_tradebeach_trade Posts: 2,040 Captain
    mustang190 wrote: »
    I guess a invasion of the Japanese mainland would have been your first choice? Good thing you were not and are not in charge of anything! And the fact that if that would have happened you would probably not have even been born. The two bombs saved more lives than they ever took. Wise up and educate yourself.
    As far as the USS Vincennes goes, a captain's first priority is the protection of his ship and crew! You like others are nothing more than monday morning QB's.

    You are quoting the line of bull the government fed the world for decades.

    Tons of evidence out there now that this is just not true. Wise up and educate yourself.
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 10,104 AG
    You are quoting the line of bull the government fed the world for decades.

    Tons of evidence out there now that this is just not true. Wise up and educate yourself.

    Tons of evidence? LOL!! Post it!
    Your a fool who has bought into the lies. Why don't you ask some of the veterans who were actually there?
    But I'm sure your afraid a 90 year old Marine would kick your young butt!!
    2013 Pathfinder 22 TE , 150 Yamaha,
  • frankfrank Posts: 13,292 AG
    mustang190 wrote: »
    Do you consider attacking, occupying a embassy and holding and threatining to kill a diplomatic staff a act of war?
    doesn't even compare:
    frank wrote: »
    1953 -our government via a coup deposes the democratically elected government in iran and installs a dictator that will do our bidding http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%A9tat http://www.nytimes.com/library/world/mideast/041600iran-cia-index.html
    1979 - (i was there) the iranian people rise up in revolt and remove their own dictator from power
    1980 - iraq, our then ally, invades iran with a doul ground and air attack with weapons purchased from us http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Iraq_during_the_Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_war
    1980 - 1988 - iraq is supplied with chemical weapons, mustard gas, including mustard gas, nerve agents and anthrax, sale of the chemical weapons was facilitated by us and our military and cia provided direct assistance to iraq in the form of war intelligence to target iranians http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/dec/31/iraq.politics
    In a declassified report, the CIA estimated in 1991 that Iran had suffered more than 50,000 casualties from Iraq's use of several chemical weapons,[161] but today the actual number of victims is estimated to more than 100,000, since the long term effects still cause casualties to this day.[162][163]
    The official estimate does not include the civilian population contaminated in bordering towns or the children and relatives of veterans, many of whom have developed blood, lung and skin complications, according to the Organization for Veterans of Iran. According to a 2002 article in the Star-Ledger:
    "Nerve gas killed about 20,000 Iranian soldiers immediately, according to official reports. Of the 90,000 survivors, some 5,000 seek medical treatment regularly and about 1,000 are still hospitalized with severe, chronic conditions."[164]
    Iraq also used chemical weapons on Iranian civilians, killing many in villages and hospitals. Many civilians suffered severe burns and health problems, and still suffer from them.[165]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War#Use_of_chemical_weapons_by_Iraq
    1988 - we shoot down an iranian civilian jetliner operating over iranian airspace killing 290 people, mostly women and children http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
    It was the highest death toll of any aviation incident in the Indian Ocean and the highest death toll of any incident involving an Airbus A300 anywhere in the world. Vincennes entered into Iranian territorial waters after sending one of its helicopters to buzz Iranian speedboats located inside Iranian waters, and the helicopter drew warning fire from the speedboats. IR655 was within Iranian airspace at the time it was shot down.


    now we have iran surrounded on three of four borders with military bases, are constantly flying unmanned drones over their country, regurgitating the same rhetoric that led to to the iraq invasion, and have begun sanctions against them
    who is dangerous?
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  • riverdiverriverdiver Posts: 2,018 Captain
    frank wrote: »
    now we have iran surrounded on three of four borders with military bases, are constantly flying unmanned drones over their country, regurgitating the same rhetoric that led to to the iraq invasion, and have begun sanctions against them
    who is dangerous?

    Iran is closer to developing nuclear weapons, and has a leader who welcomes an "End of Times" scenario because that fulfills the religious promise of the return of the Mahdi. His stated intent is the destruction of Israel, and the start of WW3. Any thoughts on that?

    Ever since we went into Iraq and Afghanistan, Iran has been waging a proxy war against us by sending money, weapons, technology, and manpower.

    Yes, we've done negative things that have impacted Iran. On the flip side, Iran has done negative things that have affected us.

    Factoring in interference from Russia and China, I'd say there's plenty of blame to share on all sides. Apparently it's just easier for some people to blame our own country for all of the ills in the world.
  • frankfrank Posts: 13,292 AG
    i think it's easy for some to ignore or justify the ills we have done to others because it is our country

    thoughts on the propaganda of ahmadinejad:
    fisrt off he is not the leader, like our presidents he has little real power, that rests in the hands of the ayatollahs who are the supreme leaders, they about to do away with the office of president from what folks have been saying lately
    he stated, if you read the true translation of what he said, that his intent is to destroy the israeli government, again that is rhetoric just as we say our intent is to get rid of their government, and he doesn't have the power to act on that anyways

    iran's government is terrible and repressive, they are no better off now than when they were under the shah and in many ways worse off, but it is up to the iranian people to deal with that and it is the sovereign right of iran to conduct themselves how they please, which foir them has been defending themselves from us for the past 60+ years
    riverdiver wrote: »

    Yes, we've done negative things that have impacted Iran. On the flip side, Iran has done negative things that have affected us.
    .
    as has been stated, we have done far worse to iran than they have done to us or ever could
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  • coldaircoldair Posts: 11,498 Officer
    what makes Iran any different then the other nations Obama has been meddling with?
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  • dstockwelldstockwell Posts: 13,782 AG
    What will the warmongers do now.

    Iran Backs Off Threat to Close Strait of Hormuz

    Iran backed down Saturday from its earlier threats to block the strategic oil route through the Strait of Hormuz, apparently confirming U.S. assertions that such threats packed more "bluster" than bite.

    Talk of blocking the strategic oil route through the Strait of Hormuz is a discussion of the past, a commander of Iran's Revolutionary Guard said Saturday, but he said Iran had other, unspecified strategies for reacting to any Western aggression.

    "Discourse about closing the Strait of Hormuz belongs to five years ago. Today's debate in the Islamic Republic of Iran contains new layers and the time has not come to raise it," Gen. Masoud Jazayeri said in comments posted Saturday on the Guard's website, sepahnews.com.

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/12/31/iran-backs-off-threat-to-close-strait-hormuz/#ixzz1iARPXn8w

    Iran, Hit by Sanctions, Calls for New Nuclear Talks

    Iran has proposed a new round of talks about its controversial nuclear program with the six world powers, the country's top nuclear negotiator said Saturday.

    Saeed Jalili said he has formally called on the six powers -- the United States, Russia, China, Britain, France and Germany -- to return to the negotiating table with Iran.

    The invitation comes in the wake of new sanctions recently imposed by the West over Tehran's uranium enrichment program, which is a potential pathway to making nuclear arms.

    The last round of negotiations between Iran and the five permanent members of the U.N. Security Council plus Germany in January in Istanbul, Turkey, ended in failure.

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/12/31/report-iran-to-propose-new-nuclear-talks/#ixzz1iARnRqIb


    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/12/31/report-iran-to-propose-new-nuclear-talks/#ixzz1iARVUxoK



    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/12/31/iran-backs-off-threat-to-close-strait-hormuz/#ixzz1iAREwWE0
    It is not the responsibility of the United States to solve the problems of other countries.
  • tagtag Posts: 8,808 Admiral
    So, the threat of action by "the warmongers" caused the Iranians to rethink their aggression. I doubt non-action by the "love, peace and play nice" folks would have had the same effect.
  • razorreilly09razorreilly09 Posts: 8,401 Officer
    I thought they are dead set on "wiping Israel off the face of the map"? Why are they wanting to talk now?
  • Bimini TwistedBimini Twisted Posts: 11,168 AG
    Conservative are dispirited that their warmongering won't give them the usual pleasure they feel when the happily get thousands of American kids killed and maimed all for their blood-lust and folly.

    Oh bother.
  • tagtag Posts: 8,808 Admiral
    Conservative are dispirited that their warmongering won't give them the usual pleasure they feel when the happily get thousands of American kids killed and maimed all for their blood-lust and folly.

    Oh bother.

    One of these days, we can only hope, You'll figure out that America doesn't send kids to war.
  • Bimini TwistedBimini Twisted Posts: 11,168 AG
    tag wrote: »
    One of these days, we can only hope, You'll figure out that America doesn't send kids to war.

    No, conservative warmongering does.
  • tagtag Posts: 8,808 Admiral
    Last 100 years or so.....

    World War I - Woodrow Wilson - Democrat
    World War II - FDR - Democrat
    Korean War - Truman - Democrat
    Bay of Pigs - Kennedy - Democrat
    Vietnam War - LBJ - Democrat
    Grenada - Reagan - Republican
    Persian Gulf War - Bush - Republican
    Bosnia and Herzegovina - Clinton - Democrat
    Somolia - Clinton - Democrat
    War on Terror - Bush - Republican

    Looks like the democrats win the warmongering contest.
  • Bimini TwistedBimini Twisted Posts: 11,168 AG
    tag wrote: »
    Last 100 years or so.....

    World War I - Woodrow Wilson - Democrat
    World War II - FDR - Democrat
    Korean War - Truman - Democrat
    Bay of Pigs - Kennedy - Democrat
    Vietnam War - LBJ - Democrat
    Grenada - Reagan - Republican
    Persian Gulf War - Bush - Republican
    Bosnia and Herzegovina - Clinton - Democrat
    Somolia - Clinton - Democrat
    War on Terror - Bush - Republican

    Looks like the democrats win the warmongering contest.

    It's a complete joke that you call conservative filth's blood-lust filled folly in Iraq the "War on Terror", GMAFB.

    Conservative's lack of any regards for the lives and limbs of America's youth is what brought us the Iraq debacle, a debacle that they would gladly and enthusiastically repeat in Iran. That is, as long as plenty of young Americans get killed and maimed, it's the conservative dream.
  • dstockwelldstockwell Posts: 13,782 AG
    Just wait, as soon as they get back from vacation those on the SASC will be looking for another target.
    It is not the responsibility of the United States to solve the problems of other countries.
  • dstockwelldstockwell Posts: 13,782 AG
    tag wrote: »
    Last 100 years or so.....

    World War I - Woodrow Wilson - Democrat
    World War II - FDR - Democrat
    Korean War - Truman - Democrat
    Bay of Pigs - Kennedy - Democrat
    Vietnam War - LBJ - Democrat
    Grenada - Reagan - Republican
    Persian Gulf War - Bush - Republican
    Bosnia and Herzegovina - Clinton - Democrat
    Somolia - Clinton - Democrat
    War on Terror - Bush - Republican

    Looks like the democrats win the warmongering contest.

    Nice trying to lump multiple locations on just the war on terror, show all locations Bush sent troops.
    It is not the responsibility of the United States to solve the problems of other countries.
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