How to offer more opportunities on Quota Hunts

Pinman

bowhunter4life said:

The previous and current system have grey areas you can work to gain an advantage… Your intention is good, but you are still putting the gamers in the woods more often than you. We need a preference point button and you can’t return the same hunt permit more than once. Then you won’t need 7 or more points for a dinner hunt that’s only worth 2 or 3 tops.

I agree you can still get an advantage, but that advantage now is very small and certainly not to the level it was during transferable and the call in FCFS days. 

OGBOHICA

Whats the fine for hunting without a quota?

bowhunter4life

OGBOHICA said:

Whats the fine for hunting without a quota?

When or  if they they ever catch me, I’ll let you know!😜

OGBOHICA

ill bet its cheaper than spending the time trying to get one..

osprey11

Pinman said:

osprey11 said:

Make permits transferable.  I hunted many hard to get spots by waiting on Sat afternoon and asking if they where coming back on Sunday.    I was not alone.   It assured use of permit.   New rule sucks and is reducing use of the resource.    WHY?

110% NO!  Previously everyone bought WMA stamps and applied for their whole family and friends and tied up entire WMAs. If you have enough family friends and money you could do it. In my younger days I only Duck hunted Lake O and didnt need a WMA stamp. I wanted to try local Turkey hunting but I had to buy a stamp just to apply. After a few years of not getting anything I gave up. The WMA was tied up by a few getting transferable permits from everyone they knew. No thanks...

That situation is unavoidable.   Same guy today can tie down the same permits, just has to have permit holder in the truck.     I can promise you there is MORE access to more people under the transferability of permits    Say something happens to permit holder, illness, work, family emergency in the days before the hunt.  In todays system that equals a burnt permit.   If transferable the permit could still allow someone access to a limited resource.

Big Mak

OGBOHICA said:

Whats the fine for hunting without a quota?

Not a bad idea! There aren't many places with Mr Green Jean's checking. Might be worth a shot. I'm pretty sure I could get away with it from what little LEO presence I've seen on patrol.

It would be great if everyone had a "Hunt In" day and just went to their favorite place and hunted; either with or without a permit. 

osprey11

Rumor was $270 or something like that.

bowhunter4life

I’m .0001 percent Seminole Indian, I hunt where and when I want officer..👍💪🏼

Pinman

osprey11 said:

Pinman said:

osprey11 said:

Make permits transferable.  I hunted many hard to get spots by waiting on Sat afternoon and asking if they where coming back on Sunday.    I was not alone.   It assured use of permit.   New rule sucks and is reducing use of the resource.    WHY?

110% NO!  Previously everyone bought WMA stamps and applied for their whole family and friends and tied up entire WMAs. If you have enough family friends and money you could do it. In my younger days I only Duck hunted Lake O and didnt need a WMA stamp. I wanted to try local Turkey hunting but I had to buy a stamp just to apply. After a few years of not getting anything I gave up. The WMA was tied up by a few getting transferable permits from everyone they knew. No thanks...

That situation is unavoidable.   Same guy today can tie down the same permits, just has to have permit holder in the truck.     I can promise you there is MORE access to more people under the transferability of permits    Say something happens to permit holder, illness, work, family emergency in the days before the hunt.  In todays system that equals a burnt permit.   If transferable the permit could still allow someone access to a limited resource.

That sounds good until the abuse occurred. Under transferable, I would have no problem today spending $1000 to get 40 people WMA stamps in order to hunt my favorite WMA during Turkey season. 

But you know what, it doesnt matter. The chances of it going back to transferable are nil. The same chances that there are of everything going no Quota. 

Why not work on something that might actually be adopted?

osprey11

Pinman said:

osprey11 said:

Pinman said:

osprey11 said:

Make permits transferable.  I hunted many hard to get spots by waiting on Sat afternoon and asking if they where coming back on Sunday.    I was not alone.   It assured use of permit.   New rule sucks and is reducing use of the resource.    WHY?

110% NO!  Previously everyone bought WMA stamps and applied for their whole family and friends and tied up entire WMAs. If you have enough family friends and money you could do it. In my younger days I only Duck hunted Lake O and didnt need a WMA stamp. I wanted to try local Turkey hunting but I had to buy a stamp just to apply. After a few years of not getting anything I gave up. The WMA was tied up by a few getting transferable permits from everyone they knew. No thanks...

That situation is unavoidable.   Same guy today can tie down the same permits, just has to have permit holder in the truck.     I can promise you there is MORE access to more people under the transferability of permits    Say something happens to permit holder, illness, work, family emergency in the days before the hunt.  In todays system that equals a burnt permit.   If transferable the permit could still allow someone access to a limited resource.

That sounds good until the abuse occurred. Under transferable, I would have no problem today spending $1000 to get 40 people WMA stamps in order to hunt my favorite WMA during Turkey season. 

But you know what, it doesnt matter. The chances of it going back to transferable are nil. The same chances that there are of everything going no Quota. 

Why not work on something that might actually be adopted?

Because like I said YOU CAN STILL DO THAT.   THE PERSON WOULD HAVE TO HUNT WITH YOU OR SIT IN THE TRUCK!   Nothing solved.  Except less access.    I will vote for the better system.

osprey11

No chance you say.   Well thats exactly how the special opp hunts are run.   Why are they so special?

Transferability: Special-Opportunity Spring Turkey permits are transferable from one hunter to another by simply giving the permit to another hunter. 

Pinman

osprey11 said:

Pinman said:

osprey11 said:

Pinman said:

osprey11 said:

Make permits transferable.  I hunted many hard to get spots by waiting on Sat afternoon and asking if they where coming back on Sunday.    I was not alone.   It assured use of permit.   New rule sucks and is reducing use of the resource.    WHY?

110% NO!  Previously everyone bought WMA stamps and applied for their whole family and friends and tied up entire WMAs. If you have enough family friends and money you could do it. In my younger days I only Duck hunted Lake O and didnt need a WMA stamp. I wanted to try local Turkey hunting but I had to buy a stamp just to apply. After a few years of not getting anything I gave up. The WMA was tied up by a few getting transferable permits from everyone they knew. No thanks...

That situation is unavoidable.   Same guy today can tie down the same permits, just has to have permit holder in the truck.     I can promise you there is MORE access to more people under the transferability of permits    Say something happens to permit holder, illness, work, family emergency in the days before the hunt.  In todays system that equals a burnt permit.   If transferable the permit could still allow someone access to a limited resource.

That sounds good until the abuse occurred. Under transferable, I would have no problem today spending $1000 to get 40 people WMA stamps in order to hunt my favorite WMA during Turkey season. 

But you know what, it doesnt matter. The chances of it going back to transferable are nil. The same chances that there are of everything going no Quota. 

Why not work on something that might actually be adopted?

Because like I said YOU CAN STILL DO THAT.   THE PERSON WOULD HAVE TO HUNT WITH YOU OR SIT IN THE TRUCK!   Nothing solved.  Except less access.    I will vote for the better system.

I disagree that nothing is solved because the permit holder has to be present. If nothing is solved then the current system is the same as transferable correct? Thats not the topic of my thread though and is the subject of much ongoing debate. 

Pinman

osprey11 said:

No chance you say.   Well thats exactly how the special opp hunts are run.   Why are they so special?

Transferability: Special-Opportunity Spring Turkey permits are transferable from one hunter to another by simply giving the permit to another hunter. 

I honestly dont know why they are that way. They also dont allow Guest Hunters. Dove hunts are transferable.

Did Spec Opp start out as non-transferable then go transferable? 

I still say current permits have zero chance of going back to transferable.

So whats your opinion of my idea?

osprey11

Well ....... Not fpr me.  Closest WMA is 35 to 45 min away.    Best thought I have heard so far is limiting the redraws.   Everybody is legally gaming that system.   Using our points then playing the redraw game hoping to get a similar or better hut and get out points back.   Under the old transferable system there where no guest hunters.   But multiple people could use the same permit.

osprey11

Example.   Under the old system.  You have a  three day permit but have to work the afternoon of the first day.   You could hunt the morning and your buddy could use it in the afternoon.   Say you get sick at work.  Your buddy gets to use it the next morning.   maybe he is done and passes it to a guy at the gate.  he gets an afternoon hunt and a third day on permit.    Permits got a lot more use.   Sure some played games.  Sure some still are.  The point is giving the most an opportunity.

osprey11

Maybe make it so permits are instantly available online for redraw if a person is done with it or cant use it.   I mean during the hunt.  Have a redraw for it within an hour of being turned in.   Thus giving everyone a shot at a hunt.  

Pinman

The old system is just that..."old". Time for new ideas. 

Pinman

osprey11 said:

Maybe make it so permits are instantly available online for redraw if a person is done with it or cant use it.   I mean during the hunt.  Have a redraw for it within an hour of being turned in.   Thus giving everyone a shot at a hunt.  

You have a shot at every hunt now. I dont now the logistics of how that might work. I think the 10 day turn in is too long, a friend just became sick a couple days before the hunt and lost his permit and points. 

Generally I think more Quota hunts and days need to be added. 

I would certainly drive 30-45 minutes just for a chance to hunt. Used to drive 1.5 hrs to STAs for duck hunting with no guarantee of getting in. 

OGBOHICA

Agreed, when NEW lands get opened they should have NO quotas and no great big announcements as well, just quietly open them, then keep them off the internet and go hunt

meateater

bowhunter4life said:

I’m .0001 percent Seminole Indian, I hunt where and when I want officer..👍💪🏼

   yea well im a sovereign citizen       wanna go hunt dinner island tomorrow        deer and turkeys.

Hollywoodcorolla

Preference point button 
and no extra point on returned quotas. 

Will slow down a lot of the gaming. And won’t need 9 points to try to get into some places where you see the. Same people almost every year 

meateater

osprey11 said:

Example.   Under the old system.  You have a  three day permit but have to work the afternoon of the first day.   You could hunt the morning and your buddy could use it in the afternoon.   Say you get sick at work.  Your buddy gets to use it the next morning.   maybe he is done and passes it to a guy at the gate.  he gets an afternoon hunt and a third day on permit.    Permits got a lot more use.   Sure some played games.  Sure some still are.  The point is giving the most an opportunity.

thats what these people dont understand          it wasnt uncommon for me to have 2 permits for lets say dinner island archery and a ok slough permit all the same weekend       extra permits ALWAYS got used by someone     everyone i know got to hunt   gave permits to dozens of guys waiting at check station  .  we would put permit in plastic bag and pin it to a tree so someone could use if we where done with it.    also 90% of the time if you sat at the exit of any wma at 10 am on sunday you would be hunting by 1pm since half the guys going home werent coming back.         still fwc gotta limit redraw permits to 1 per customer       that would stop guys from just applying every weekend trying to get multiple permits with no plan of returning ones already picked for.   this 1 change will give everyone better odds of getting picked and help with no shows.      

meateater

hoggator said:

I think a lot of the issues with “point creep” & “no shows” would go away if you do not award people a point for a return.  

Couldn’t draw your hunt =1 point
You draw 1 of your choices & return it = 0 point for that year.  

Stops people applying and returning. If they can’t build up their points & stops point creep
less redraws = less people getting redraws and not showing up because they got nothing to lose and nothing invested. 

I think it’s a simple solution.  

I’m all fairness, why should you get an additional point for retuning a hunt you applied for and decided not to hunt?
you still keep your points for next year, you just don’t get to add one more. 

i really hate this idea     really really hate this idea         but this is by far the fairest and simplest way to fix these problems.        i will tell you one thing if this was the rule i would not be making 5 choices on the draws    2 maybe 3 at most .      still gotta limit redraws to 1 per person.

meateater

Pinman said:

meateater said:

i gamed the old system   transferable permits         i game the new system     non transferable permits             heres the difference i use / hunt every permit im lucky enough to get or it gets returned in time for someone else to use it.            some good stuff from some of you.           number one thing i would change is redraws      1 permit for archery  1 blackpowder 1 gen gun      after you get one your done unless its returned in time for someone else to use it.      the way it works now theres no penalty if you dont return it  so guys just keep applying week after week and if lucky enough to get picked theres no limit on how many times you can get picked.   i know a guy who got 5 redraws last year   2 archery  2 blackpowder 1 gen gun.   i believe he only used 2.    limiting redraws to 1 will help with no shows and give more guys a chance.     2nd thing is adding a mid week hunt to quotas    add a 2 day hunt say tuesday and wednesday and make weekend hunts sat and sun only since just about no one hunts the monday on a 3 day hunt anyway.  this would create more opportunities for other hunters,  i believe if guys got the hunt they been trying for for years mid week most would figure it out, thats what sick days are for anyway.     the system sucks but these 2 small easy changes would add more chances for everyone to get picked.     

You are one that I would have thought would like this idea. Since you were willing to sit at the gate for the chance of a permit being given to you I thought youd be willing to sit near the gate for an electronic drawing. I know Id be there 30 minutes from my house every time it happened for a Turkey hunt. 

for sure i would be in on this     but would have to change cell phone my service stinks.  freaking ben shapiro sold me the worst cell service in america.    i agree in this day and age you would think needing to return the permit within 10 days of the hunt or it cant be re issued makes no sense to me.   24 hours before next draw should be fine.    

Pinman

Oh well. I shouldnt care. I hope to be living in a more hunting friendly state in 1-3 years.

osprey11

Meat you remember.  I hunted any WMA I wanted back then.  Took a little effort.     Instead of putting permit in a plastic bag on a tree.   Why cant they go back in the redraw system to be givin back out.   Guy is finished with his permit he returns it electronically.   A countdown clock starts for an hour.   When hour is up permit is reissued.   New hunter could be in woods one hour after the other is done with the permit.    This should be easy to implement

bowhunter4life

meateater said:

bowhunter4life said:

I’m .0001 percent Seminole Indian, I hunt where and when I want officer..👍💪🏼

   yea well im a sovereign citizen       wanna go hunt dinner island tomorrow        deer and turkeys.

Your a little late!.. I just got back home. Shot this one just before the sun came up this morning. Shot a nice gobbler off the roost just after I shot the buck, but a panther got to it before I did.

OGBOHICA

osprey11 said:

Meat you remember.  I hunted any WMA I wanted back then.  Took a little effort.     Instead of putting permit in a plastic bag on a tree.   Why cant they go back in the redraw system to be givin back out.   Guy is finished with his permit he returns it electronically.   A countdown clock starts for an hour.   When hour is up permit is reissued.   New hunter could be in woods one hour after the other is done with the permit.    This should be easy to implement

Because myFWC doesnt want you to be able to hunt it. Its not a hunter friendly agency like GFC was.

joelunchbucket

osprey11 said:

Example.   Under the old system.  You have a  three day permit but have to work the afternoon of the first day.   You could hunt the morning and your buddy could use it in the afternoon.   Say you get sick at work.  Your buddy gets to use it the next morning.   maybe he is done and passes it to a guy at the gate.  he gets an afternoon hunt and a third day on permit.    Permits got a lot more use.   Sure some played games.  Sure some still are.  The point is giving the most an opportunity.

Seems like the intent is to provide the same amount of opportunity but spread across more applicants so that same people don’t use the same quota areas every year like was happening under the previous system. 

Whether or not the current system is the best way to achieve that goal is debatable.

joelunchbucket

osprey11 said:

Meat you remember.  I hunted any WMA I wanted back then.  Took a little effort.     Instead of putting permit in a plastic bag on a tree.   Why cant they go back in the redraw system to be givin back out.   Guy is finished with his permit he returns it electronically.   A countdown clock starts for an hour.   When hour is up permit is reissued.   New hunter could be in woods one hour after the other is done with the permit.    This should be easy to implement

I think you overestimate the FWC’s IT capabilities. 

Seems pretty easy to do, in theory but, I’m guessing they would run into  IT issues, at least initially.