Seat construction in tracker jon boat…

Panhandler80

Learned that Tracker has ZERO factory customer service.  You get an 800 number call center that is happy to regurgitate what you find on their webpage, OR… You can call a dealer.  Crazy.  

Anyway… was just curious how the seat at motor is constructed.  Just one sheet of aluminum skin and then foam filled, or maybe (and preferably) an aluminum sandwich with foam and then big cavity foam filled?

 Trying to figure out best way to install a couple of these.  If it’s just one aluminum skin then I’m not sure how I’ll go about this.  

Panhandler80

Just saw one video where I guy just screws plate into seat with some adhesive.   Hahaha.  I was thinking I’d get some nuts on back of bolts somehow.  

4WARD

Panhandler80 said:

Just saw one video where I guy just screws plate into seat with some adhesive.   

I did that on an old project 10 or so years ago. Buddy’s still got the boat and the bases are just fine.
 A few dollops of 5200 and self tapping screws, don’t remove any more foam than you have to( it just provides a little more support for the flimsy aluminum)

Panhandler80

4WARD said:

Panhandler80 said:

Just saw one video where I guy just screws plate into seat with some adhesive.   

I did that on an old project 10 or so years ago. Buddy’s still got the boat and the bases are just fine.
 A few dollops of 5200 and self tapping screws, don’t remove any more foam than you have to( it just provides a little more support for the flimsy aluminum)

10-4.  I’ve always gone a bit extreme when it comes to fixtures like this.  

I don’t think there is a second layer of aluminum free topside cookie sandwich.   So like you said, remove as little foam as possible.

and then I guess some right screws and some adhesive.   Ugh.  I just don’t like it.   My other thought was an inspection plate they get all the foam and have a pre-drilled backing plate. But then lost the support of the foam.  

Or just leave it. I hopped in the boat today I can drive just fine without a seat. I just don’t know why they put the one on center line.

Jonsredfishin

That foam will be waterlogged and weigh a ton in a few years and you’ll eventually want it out. Seal it up good. 

Big Mak

Could you cut a inconspicuous access panel out of the back,  remove the foam, install a proper backing plate on the underside of the seat base, re foam (or not, and use as storage), reseal and call it a day? A little more involved but there's nothing worse than not being able to work on something because someone else failed to have a little vision while they were designing it. 

lemaymiami

There's actually a specific fastener meant for blind installations (where you can't get to the backside for through bolting or a backing plate.... They're called Togglers and you can find them on E-Bay or your nearest marine hardware store (or catalog in some cases).  Made of stainless steel they're a heavier version of the inexpensive (and flimsy) examples that big box DIY stores carry for installations in dry wall.


Any heavy duty pedestal seat bases you see on any size boat are probably fastened with Togglers.   The package they come in (usually two bolts per package) has instructions on it but I'd recommend buying an extra pair and doing a bit of practice before your install (putting two or more materials sandwiched together -then using a Toggler to fasten them together...).  If under your seat has foam - remove just enough to install that base tube -and for where the Toggler has to go - a small allen wrench key mounted on a hand drill can be inserted in the hole for each Togglers then used to wallow out the foam - allowing you to insert that Toggler... 

The resulting installation will be rock solid for years.  A few years back, when my center console came loose (for the second or third time...) I used Togglers for a permanent solution..  Note... Looking at your base I'd only use Togglers at each corner then sheet metal screws for additional holes... 

Hope this helps and "Aren't boats fun?"

Jonsredfishin

Big Mak said:

Could you cut a inconspicuous access panel out of the back,  remove the foam, install a proper backing plate on the underside of the seat base, re foam (or not, and use as storage), reseal and call it a day? A little more involved but there's nothing worse than not being able to work on something because someone else failed to have a little vision while they were designing it. 

I used these once to mount seat bases in a gheenoe in a similar situation. Used the underneath for storage. 

gogittum

When I put a folding grab bar in my 16 ft Starcraft a couple of years ago, I hadn't heard of Bob's Togglers and was well aware that the hardware store toggle bolts were far too flimsy to do the job.

I know that at times it can get rough out there and that bar had to hold my full weight being slammed into it at times.  It had to be rock solid.  Sooo....I removed the seat - drilled out all the rivets and slid the foam out.  Foam was bone dry and cut to fit instead of being foamed in place, which helped a lot. 



I used heavy duty hinges and put backing plates behind them.  Trimming the foam for clearance was easy with a sharp filet knife.

To put the seats back in, I used heavy 1/4" aluminum pop rivets with stainless steel shanks.  Drilling the old rivets out was "interesting."  Happily, Starcraft used 7/32" driven rivets, but they have domed heads and were a beast to center the drill on to get them out.  Using a snap punch and 3/32" pilot drill helped, but still difficult to get the hole centered.

(Sometime later, I replaced 160 corroded rivets in the bottom of that boat and that centering problem drove me half way cross-eyed)

Going to a 1/4" rivet allowed for a bit of slop and gave a tight fit.  You'll need the big 2 handed 17" rivet popper from Harbor Freight to pull the things with - the little sheet metal poppers in the kits will just bend under the heavy strain of these rivets - if you've got the forearms to do it.  Ask me how I know.

On the rivets going thru the hull, I dipped each one in 5200, as per Bob LeMay's recommendation at the time and had no problem with leaks.  Those pop rivets are Tough.  I'd be willing to wager that they're stronger than the original driven rivets.

It's an older boat and I had problems later with original rivets shearing in stress areas - the worst was an oarlock shearing off when rowing home with a dead motor.  Try kneeling on the bow seat of a very wide (63" beam) 16 ft boat and using an oar as a paddle for 1½ miles down a winding canal one time.  It wasn't fun.

gogittum

Gotta add to the above:  when I pulled the seat, I found that several of the rivets holding the seat brackets to the hull were sheared off and had to be replaced as well.  I didn't need to drill any of those out to remove the seat.

I was some disappointed in the quality of the build, esp. from a builder with Starcraft's reputation.  Is that a common thing with riveted boats ??

Panhandler80

lemaymiami said:

There's actually a specific fastener meant for blind installations (where you can't get to the backside for through bolting or a backing plate.... They're called Togglers and you can find them on E-Bay or your nearest marine hardware store (or catalog in some cases).  Made of stainless steel they're a heavier version of the inexpensive (and flimsy) examples that big box DIY stores carry for installations in dry wall.


Any heavy duty pedestal seat bases you see on any size boat are probably fastened with Togglers.   The package they come in (usually two bolts per package) has instructions on it but I'd recommend buying an extra pair and doing a bit of practice before your install (putting two or more materials sandwiched together -then using a Toggler to fasten them together...).  If under your seat has foam - remove just enough to install that base tube -and for where the Toggler has to go - a small allen wrench key mounted on a hand drill can be inserted in the hole for each Togglers then used to wallow out the foam - allowing you to insert that Toggler... 

The resulting installation will be rock solid for years.  A few years back, when my center console came loose (for the second or third time...) I used Togglers for a permanent solution..  Note... Looking at your base I'd only use Togglers at each corner then sheet metal screws for additional holes... 

Hope this helps and "Aren't boats fun?"

Thanks.  Some good info.   

there’s no such thing as a fun boat, btw.   I never in my life thought I would be so concerned with the integrity  preservation of an aluminum boat.   Yet here I am.  

I family got the trailer hooked up to except it.

Meanwhile, I’ve got a fishing boat tied up that has not run in three months I wanna go fishing

Panhandler80

tag

There is a channel on YouTube where the guy rebuilds/refurbishes old Tracker boats. He does a great job. I don’t even own a Tracker but have watched a bunch if his videos. I’d bet there’s some good info that would help you.

https://www.youtube.com/@AnthonyJonesBrigadeBoats/videos

Panhandler80

Out with the old and in with the new.  

Panhandler80

Panhandler80

Apologize for the duplicates. Phone is having a hard time.

gogittum

Reading over these again and had a thought:   my Starcraft had a ding in the bottom, right where my left foot went when running standing up.  Put my weight down, POP.  Loud.  Lift that hind hoof back up and Plonck, it'd pop back.  It got aggravating fairly quickly....and it scares fish.

Looked over options and posted the question here and someone (sorry, can't remember who it was) suggested gluing a stiff piece of aluminum over the ding to hold it in one position.  He suggested gluing it with West Systems G-Flex 650.

 OK, I found a suitable piece of aluminum and glued it in and....wal-lah, no more pop.  That 650 is some really powerful adhesive, slightly flexible and easy to work with.  Proper surface prep is essential.  I published a picture story about that project here.

 My thought - find a 3/16" or 1/4" piece of 6061 or similar at a scrap yard and glue it to the existing seat where you want your new seat and drill and tap it for bolts.  6061 isn't steel, but it's very hard and hold threads very well.  Kind of like a surface mount backing plate.  From my experience, you could prob'ly lift the entire boat from it.

For the aluminum, check out diamond plate.  I used a piece of it to make a bow plate to mount a mooring cleat to.  Mine was 3/16".  I published a story with pictures about it at the time and showed/described what I went thru to put a curve into that stuff.  It was like trying to bend granite.  That stuff is "Tough."  It's easy enuf to grind off the ridges in the diamond plate.  

Aren't boats fun ??  (sorry, Bob.  😎😎)

lemaymiami

That "aren't boats fun?" line came as the result of all the skinned knuckles I've gotten over the years learning all about what can go wrong on a boat or a trailer - when you least expect it...  I came back to fishing for a job in 1996 and in my first year as a guide I popped five trailer tires (and never got to change one out in daylight) - before I finally figured out that the tires that came "new from the factory" -were junk and started using better tires... Add to that,  the one time I was halfway through a tire change at night when I found I was standing on an anthill.. but had to complete the job since I'd already pulled the wheel off...

If I ever write a book about the various little (and not so little...) things I've had to learn about boats of every size these past fifty years - that tag line would probably make a pretty good title....

Just to bring us up to date - yesterday running out of Flamingo on a charter, I'd run my anglers back to their campsite in the  Everglades (we used their 24 footer since my small skiff could not fish four anglers..) and was halfway back to the ramp (only 11 or 12 miles to go...) when my water pump quit and shut me down.... This after just having a full 300 hour maintenance done by my dealer - which included a new water pump - less than five operating hours ago....  I limped along and was very lucky to get a tow from Midway all the way back to Flamingo - or I might still be out there -poling home...  Just got the word from my dealer - my brand new water pump - had failed completely... Thank heavens the E-TEC's system automatically shut me down before the over-heating could damage my motor... When  I finish writing this - it will be back to the dealer to pick up my skiff and get back on the road again... After all, it's spring time and that's when most guides are busiest...

"Aren't boats fun?"

gogittum

lemaymiami said:

That "aren't boats fun?" line came as the result of all the skinned knuckles I've gotten over the years learning all about what can go wrong on a boat or a trailer - when you least expect it...  I came back to fishing for a job in 1996 and in my first year as a guide I popped five trailer tires (and never got to change one out in daylight) - before I finally figured out that the tires that came "new from the factory" -were junk and started using better tires... Add to that,  the one time I was halfway through a tire change at night when I found I was standing on an anthill.. but had to complete the job since I'd already pulled the wheel off...

If I ever write a book about the various little (and not so little...) things I've had to learn about boats of every size these past fifty years - that tag line would probably make a pretty good title....

Just to bring us up to date - yesterday running out of Flamingo on a charter, I'd run my anglers back to their campsite in the  Everglades (we used their 24 footer since my small skiff could not fish four anglers..) and was halfway back to the ramp (only 11 or 12 miles to go...) when my water pump quit and shut me down.... This after just having a full 300 hour maintenance done by my dealer - which included a new water pump - less than five operating hours ago....  I limped along and was very lucky to get a tow from Midway all the way back to Flamingo - or I might still be out there -poling home...  Just got the word from my dealer - my brand new water pump - had failed completely... Thank heavens the E-TEC's system automatically shut me down before the over-heating could damage my motor... When  I finish writing this - it will be back to the dealer to pick up my skiff and get back on the road again... After all, it's spring time and that's when most guides are busiest...

"Aren't boats fun?"

That would make a great - and natural - title.  They ARE fun, either way you look at it.