Kingfishing during the sixties.

harbison

Kingfishing during the sixties.
For this Florida native few things are more important than fishing. Two things that are much more important than fishing are family and freedom.
This is my family of whom I am very proud:

My wife, Thelma, and youngest daughter, Betty, are now doing their fishing in heaven. Dee is always there when Dad needs her.
Freedom is not free.

Japan came into existence under emperor Jimmu in 660 B.C. Attacking Pearl Harbor, December 7, 1941, was Japan's biggest all-time mistake. Never overlook the will, mite, of the American people; dedicated Americans like my daughter, Barbara.
Barbara has helped insure our freedom by serving over three decades in the United State's Air Force:

She attained the highest enlisted rank for the Air Force as an E-9/CMSgt (Chief Master Sergeant).
Barbara retired on Active Duty Component as of July 2021 with 32 years of military service.
We are FREE to pursue our idea of the American Dream, to fish, thanks to the strongest, best equipped, military ever known to mankind. And fish we do.

Kingfishing today can be good, very good.
But what about Kingfishing during the sixties.
Actually there is absolutely NO comparison!
During the early sixties I had graduated from Jesuit High School and was attending the University of Tampa:

Kingfishing was not big, it was HUGE! Each spring the Kingfish schools stretched for miles. Catches of 100 a day were common, I know; I did it!
To take full advantage we had a 25' boat, the WAHOO II, custom designed in Miami by the PIRANHA Boat Company. This fishing machine was equipped for Kingfish with a 40 gallon live-well and huge fish box:


Back then recreational fishermen could sell their catch. Often the Tampa markets were over-flowing; we were force to go to Saint Pete to sell our catch for .10 a pound. Ten cents a pound and glad to get it.
The secret of constantly loading the boxes with Kings was, thanks to that 40 gallon live well, plenty of lively chum.

We would form a circle and chum heavy keeping the Kings hungry and on top of the water column.
It worked!



Cobia often hit with the Kings:





Two things that are much more important than fishing are family and freedom.





Kingfishing during the sixties.

CaptJ

It was the same in Miami in those days.

harbison

Good to know.  Thanks!

mudflatmark

Off Eggmont we sat in giant schools of kings trolled and live baited them they were thick. They are still around but nearly as abundant as those days.

tampaspicer

This is how fish populations are decimated. The older generations just took and took as much as they cold without regards to maintaining a health fish population. So glad this aren't like they use to be.  

harbison

 "So glad this aren't like they use to be. "
Me too!
When I grew up there were few to no regulations. The huge schools of Kings were so vast we thought they could never be decimated.    WRONG!
We destroyed them. I know; I was part of it.
Now recreational fishing is controlled by seasons as well as strict size and possession limits. 
Commercial fishing is controlled by IFQ.

As a result Florida fishing, even with the Sunshine State's population explosion, can still be very rewarding. 

 

ANUMBER1

no IFQ for kingfish.
Permits, seasons, and TAC's for the commercial sector.

ANUMBER1

tampaspicer said:

This is how fish populations are decimated. The older generations just took and took as much as they cold without regards to maintaining a health fish population. So glad this aren't like they use to be.  

I guess the population explosion in fl has nothing to do with it?

harbison

The population explosion has had and will continue to have a huge impact on our fishery. 
Kingfish... Good to know.  Thanks! 

mudflatmark

The king fish populations were decimated by netters not hook and line recreational fishermen.
The sea was thought to be an unlimited resource we have learned it was not.

Tarpon Monoxide

“I guess the population explosion in fl has nothing to do with it?”

The commercial kingfish gill net fleet along with their spotter airplanes decimated the vast schools of kingfish well before Florida’s population explosion.

A little history is needed here. Back in the 60’s kingfish were thick on the west coast of Florida.  Then in the early 70’s the commercial kingfish gill net fleet along with their spotter airplanes in a few short years decimated the vast kingfish stocks. They caught so many king mackerel that the fishery collapsed and that put the king mackerel netters out of business well before any Florida population explosion.

There was a population explosion that had something to do with the decimation of the kingfish by the commercial gill net kingfish fleet it was an explosion of super efficient gill nets and spotter planes that ultimately decimated the kingfish population back then. Of course to be fair the recreational fisherman played a small part in the decimation of the king mackerel back then but the lion’s share of the blame for the decimation of the kingfish stocks is on the king mackerel gill net fleet.

In 1974 the commercial king mackerel gill net catch just off Lee and Collier counties alone was 3 million pounds over the next 10 years the king mackerel netters put themselves out of business.

Before any meaningful action was taken the king mackerel gill netters had overfished themselves out of business at that time which was well before the Florida population explosion.

After the gill netters decimated the king mackerel stocks the old Marine Fisheries Commission implemented a 2 kingfish per person limit in state waters effectively ending kingfish netting within 9 miles of the west coast of Florida. It took a few years but the king mackerel slowly increased their numbers but not like anything near the 60’s kingfish population.

So to say that “I guess the population explosion in fl has nothing to do with it?” ignores the history of the commercial king mackerel gill net fleet along with their spotter airplanes.  

 

 

ANUMBER1

Tarpon Monoxide said:

“I guess the population explosion in fl has nothing to do with it?”

The commercial kingfish gill net fleet along with their spotter airplanes decimated the vast schools of kingfish well before Florida’s population explosion.

A little history is needed here. Back in the 60’s kingfish were thick on the west coast of Florida.  Then in the early 70’s the commercial kingfish gill net fleet along with their spotter airplanes in a few short years decimated the vast kingfish stocks. They caught so many king mackerel that the fishery collapsed and that put the king mackerel netters out of business well before any Florida population explosion.

There was a population explosion that had something to do with the decimation of the kingfish by the commercial gill net kingfish fleet it was an explosion of super efficient gill nets and spotter planes that ultimately decimated the kingfish population back then. Of course to be fair the recreational fisherman played a small part in the decimation of the king mackerel back then but the lion’s share of the blame for the decimation of the kingfish stocks is on the king mackerel gill net fleet.

In 1974 the commercial king mackerel gill net catch just off Lee and Collier counties alone was 3 million pounds over the next 10 years the king mackerel netters put themselves out of business.

Before any meaningful action was taken the king mackerel gill netters had overfished themselves out of business at that time which was well before the Florida population explosion.

After the gill netters decimated the king mackerel stocks the old Marine Fisheries Commission implemented a 2 kingfish per person limit in state waters effectively ending kingfish netting within 9 miles of the west coast of Florida. It took a few years but the king mackerel slowly increased their numbers but not like anything near the 60’s kingfish population.

So to say that “I guess the population explosion in fl has nothing to do with it?” ignores the history of the commercial king mackerel gill net fleet along with their spotter airplanes.  

 

 

Um, you know that kingfish gill net season opens tomorrow?

ANUMBER1

The TAC is 563,480 lbs and with this cold will be filled in 2-3 days. 

tampaspicer

ANUMBER1 said:

The TAC is 563,480 lbs and with this cold will be filled in 2-3 days. 

Is that an annual harvest limit?

harbison

"the lion’s share of the blame for the decimation of the kingfish stocks is on the king mackerel gill net fleet."
I remember watching the spotter planes in disbelief.
It's my understanding that the gill nets destroyed many more kings that were caught. 

 I remember seeing really BIG boats  launching dozens of smaller boats to attack the Kings. 

Tarpon Monoxide

ANUMBER1 said:

Tarpon Monoxide said:

“I guess the population explosion in fl has nothing to do with it?”

The commercial kingfish gill net fleet along with their spotter airplanes decimated the vast schools of kingfish well before Florida’s population explosion.

A little history is needed here. Back in the 60’s kingfish were thick on the west coast of Florida.  Then in the early 70’s the commercial kingfish gill net fleet along with their spotter airplanes in a few short years decimated the vast kingfish stocks. They caught so many king mackerel that the fishery collapsed and that put the king mackerel netters out of business well before any Florida population explosion.

There was a population explosion that had something to do with the decimation of the kingfish by the commercial gill net kingfish fleet it was an explosion of super efficient gill nets and spotter planes that ultimately decimated the kingfish population back then. Of course to be fair the recreational fisherman played a small part in the decimation of the king mackerel back then but the lion’s share of the blame for the decimation of the kingfish stocks is on the king mackerel gill net fleet.

In 1974 the commercial king mackerel gill net catch just off Lee and Collier counties alone was 3 million pounds over the next 10 years the king mackerel netters put themselves out of business.

Before any meaningful action was taken the king mackerel gill netters had overfished themselves out of business at that time which was well before the Florida population explosion.

After the gill netters decimated the king mackerel stocks the old Marine Fisheries Commission implemented a 2 kingfish per person limit in state waters effectively ending kingfish netting within 9 miles of the west coast of Florida. It took a few years but the king mackerel slowly increased their numbers but not like anything near the 60’s kingfish population.

So to say that “I guess the population explosion in fl has nothing to do with it?” ignores the history of the commercial king mackerel gill net fleet along with their spotter airplanes.  

 

 

Um, you know that kingfish gill net season opens tomorrow?

Nice try at distraction. You made the false statement that "“I guess the population explosion in fl has nothing to do with it?” Meaning that the population explosion had everything to do with the demise of the king mackerel in the 70's and 80's.

When you posted that false drivel you knew all along that the gill netters with spotter planes decimated the kingfish back then to the point of putting themselves out of business. Since you are the resident commercial fishing lobbyist/mouthpiece the truth about the king mackerel being decimated by the gill netters back then is not coming anywhere near out of your selective mouth. So you try to falsely spin it and falsely blame the "population explosion" for the demise of the kingfish in the 70's and 80's when the population explosion had not taken place back then.

The evidence and historical facts show that the gill netters with their spotter planes were the reason that the king mackerel stocks collapsed and not the ridiculous reason you tried to foist off on the unknowing that it had something or all to do with the population explosion which had not occurred at that time.

"Um, you know that kingfish gill net season opens tomorrow?"

Of course. Please tell us why they start the federal waters season for gill netting king mackerel after the MLK Federal holiday?

"The TAC is 563,480 lbs and with this cold will be filled in 2-3 days."

The federal waters gill net fishery was closed for years because the kings were still building back from being decimated by the gill netters and then it was reopened in Federal waters only in the southern kingfish zone.The daily boat limit was 25k per boat and now the daily boat limit for gill netted king mackerel is 45,000 pounds per boat per day!

The kingfish gill netters went over their quota last year so this year their Total Allowable Catch (TAC) went down to 563,480 lbs.

"with this cold will be filled in 2-3 days." 2-3 days to reach the TAC of more than half a million pounds of gill netted poor quality king mackerel.

Since king mackerel gill nets are not 100% efficient for every pound of king mackerel caught 1-3 pounds fall out of the net dead unable to be retrieved. So to harvest 563,480 lbs. to the dock the netters killed at least another 500,000 pounds or more in fallout.

So why can a few boats take 563,480 lbs of kings in 2-3 days? First off the daily boat limit has been raised up to 45,000 lbs. The key is in the timing of when and where the gill netters can net king mackerel.

In January the Gulf group king mackerel bunch up and stage off to the NW of Key West in massive schools in Federal waters getting ready to move north. "with this cold will be filled in 2-3 days" Since the cold makes the fish bunch up even more at a time when they are naturally bunching up to migrate north they are most susceptible to having a TAC of 563,480 filled in 2 to 3 days. And keep in mind for every pound of king mackerel they harvest from the gill net at least another pound is lost and wasted from gill net fallout and this is not part of the TAC. Some of these king mackerel gill nets are 60 feet deep!

Please tell us why the Feds start the federal waters only king mackerel gill net season after the MLK Federal holiday?

harbison

"The TAC is 563,480 lbs and with this cold will be filled in 2-3 days."

Just think how many recreational fisherman would have the time of their  lives with that 563,480 lbs.

ANUMBER1

tampaspicer said:

ANUMBER1 said:

The TAC is 563,480 lbs and with this cold will be filled in 2-3 days. 

Is that an annual harvest limit?

for gill net in the southern zone, each zone has it's own TAC, all H&L (with some net bycatch).

ANUMBER1

harbison said:

"the lion’s share of the blame for the decimation of the kingfish stocks is on the king mackerel gill net fleet."
I remember watching the spotter planes in disbelief.
It's my understanding that the gill nets destroyed many more kings that were caught. 

 I remember seeing really BIG boats  launching dozens of smaller boats to attack the Kings. 

you are posting pics of monkfish and dogfish boats in new England??  

no Florida boats launched small boats

ANUMBER1

Tarpon Monoxide said:

ANUMBER1 said:

Tarpon Monoxide said:

“I guess the population explosion in fl has nothing to do with it?”

The commercial kingfish gill net fleet along with their spotter airplanes decimated the vast schools of kingfish well before Florida’s population explosion.

A little history is needed here. Back in the 60’s kingfish were thick on the west coast of Florida.  Then in the early 70’s the commercial kingfish gill net fleet along with their spotter airplanes in a few short years decimated the vast kingfish stocks. They caught so many king mackerel that the fishery collapsed and that put the king mackerel netters out of business well before any Florida population explosion.

There was a population explosion that had something to do with the decimation of the kingfish by the commercial gill net kingfish fleet it was an explosion of super efficient gill nets and spotter planes that ultimately decimated the kingfish population back then. Of course to be fair the recreational fisherman played a small part in the decimation of the king mackerel back then but the lion’s share of the blame for the decimation of the kingfish stocks is on the king mackerel gill net fleet.

In 1974 the commercial king mackerel gill net catch just off Lee and Collier counties alone was 3 million pounds over the next 10 years the king mackerel netters put themselves out of business.

Before any meaningful action was taken the king mackerel gill netters had overfished themselves out of business at that time which was well before the Florida population explosion.

After the gill netters decimated the king mackerel stocks the old Marine Fisheries Commission implemented a 2 kingfish per person limit in state waters effectively ending kingfish netting within 9 miles of the west coast of Florida. It took a few years but the king mackerel slowly increased their numbers but not like anything near the 60’s kingfish population.

So to say that “I guess the population explosion in fl has nothing to do with it?” ignores the history of the commercial king mackerel gill net fleet along with their spotter airplanes.  

 

 

Um, you know that kingfish gill net season opens tomorrow?

Nice try at distraction. You made the false statement that "“I guess the population explosion in fl has nothing to do with it?” Meaning that the population explosion had everything to do with the demise of the king mackerel in the 70's and 80's.

When you posted that false drivel you knew all along that the gill netters with spotter planes decimated the kingfish back then to the point of putting themselves out of business. Since you are the resident commercial fishing lobbyist/mouthpiece the truth about the king mackerel being decimated by the gill netters back then is not coming anywhere near out of your selective mouth. So you try to falsely spin it and falsely blame the "population explosion" for the demise of the kingfish in the 70's and 80's when the population explosion had not taken place back then.

The evidence and historical facts show that the gill netters with their spotter planes were the reason that the king mackerel stocks collapsed and not the ridiculous reason you tried to foist off on the unknowing that it had something or all to do with the population explosion which had not occurred at that time.

"Um, you know that kingfish gill net season opens tomorrow?"

Of course. Please tell us why they start the federal waters season for gill netting king mackerel after the MLK Federal holiday?

"The TAC is 563,480 lbs and with this cold will be filled in 2-3 days."

The federal waters gill net fishery was closed for years because the kings were still building back from being decimated by the gill netters and then it was reopened in Federal waters only in the southern kingfish zone.The daily boat limit was 25k per boat and now the daily boat limit for gill netted king mackerel is 45,000 pounds per boat per day!

The kingfish gill netters went over their quota last year so this year their Total Allowable Catch (TAC) went down to 563,480 lbs.

"with this cold will be filled in 2-3 days." 2-3 days to reach the TAC of more than half a million pounds of gill netted poor quality king mackerel.

Since king mackerel gill nets are not 100% efficient for every pound of king mackerel caught 1-3 pounds fall out of the net dead unable to be retrieved. So to harvest 563,480 lbs. to the dock the netters killed at least another 500,000 pounds or more in fallout.

So why can a few boats take 563,480 lbs of kings in 2-3 days? First off the daily boat limit has been raised up to 45,000 lbs. The key is in the timing of when and where the gill netters can net king mackerel.

In January the Gulf group king mackerel bunch up and stage off to the NW of Key West in massive schools in Federal waters getting ready to move north. "with this cold will be filled in 2-3 days" Since the cold makes the fish bunch up even more at a time when they are naturally bunching up to migrate north they are most susceptible to having a TAC of 563,480 filled in 2 to 3 days. And keep in mind for every pound of king mackerel they harvest from the gill net at least another pound is lost and wasted from gill net fallout and this is not part of the TAC. Some of these king mackerel gill nets are 60 feet deep!

Please tell us why the Feds start the federal waters only king mackerel gill net season after the MLK Federal holiday?

why do they start after instead of before MLK day?

Because there are no federal employees at work to process the catch data in order to assess when the TAC is projected to be filled thus the seasons starts after MLK day.

I worked on that one back in the 90's..

ANUMBER1

the recs went over their ARS TAC last year so...it happens.

ANUMBER1

I'm not disputing that unregulated fishing hurt the kingfish stock, once a plan was put in place then the overfishing ended.
Commercial was under a strict TAC for many years and was only increased in the eastern gulf 4-5 years ago.

MY point is that while the rec bag limit is small the population of rec fishers is increasing 100 fold every year.

Y'all just saw that with gags...
Tip of the spear.

tampaspicer

ANUMBER1 said:

I'm not disputing that unregulated fishing hurt the kingfish stock, once a plan was put in place then the overfishing ended.
Commercial was under a strict TAC for many years and was only increased in the eastern gulf 4-5 years ago.

MY point is that while the rec bag limit is small the population of rec fishers is increasing 100 fold every year.

Y'all just saw that with gags...
Tip of the spear.

I wish grouper would have been regulated better back in the 90's. Should have made the size and bag limits what they are today and there probably wouldn't have been a need for a closed season like there is today. 

harbison

"no Florida boats launched small boats"
Not sure where they came from, but I personally saw very large boats launching smaller boats. 

"I wish grouper would have been regulated better back in the 90's. Should have made the size and bag limits what they are today and there probably wouldn't have been a need for a closed season like there is today."

 Wish we had the regulations when I began grouper fishing in the early sixties.
Would it have hurt? Absolutely! But much needed. 

Bottom line:
Both recreational & commercial contributed to the demise of the huge Kingfish schools. 

Tarpon Monoxide

ANUMBER1 said:

I'm not disputing that unregulated fishing hurt the kingfish stock, once a plan was put in place then the overfishing ended.
Commercial was under a strict TAC for many years and was only increased in the eastern gulf 4-5 years ago.

MY point is that while the rec bag limit is small the population of rec fishers is increasing 100 fold every year.

Y'all just saw that with gags...
Tip of the spear.

You posted up a lie and now you are trying to walk it back.

YOUR ORIGINAL FALSE POINT WAS:

“I guess the population explosion in fl has nothing to do with it?” Meaning that the population explosion had everything to do with the demise of the king mackerel in the 70's and 80's.

Your point there was to do what you always do, blame any fishery ills on the population explosion so as to distract from the real truth about the decimation of the king mackerel with gill nets and spotter planes.

There are fishery ills that can be rightfully be blamed on the population explosion, but the king fish netters have themselves to blame for putting themselves out of business back then well before the population explosion. So your statement is chronologically impossible.

"I'm not disputing that unregulated fishing hurt the kingfish stock, once a plan was put in place then the overfishing ended.
Commercial was under a strict TAC for many years and was only increased in the eastern gulf 4-5 years ago."

Of course you were disputing that the netters decimated the kingfish population by sequestering the truth by not telling the truth first off about the netters and putting out chronologically impossible lobbyist garbage that it was the population explosion.

"MY point is that while the rec bag limit is small the population of rec fishers is increasing 100 fold every year."

NO YOUR POINT WAS IT WAS THE POPULATION EXPLOSION THAT DECIMATED THE KINGFISH STOCKS AND NOW YOU ARE TRYING TO WALK THE LIE BACK WITH "MY point is that while the rec bag limit is small the population of rec fishers is increasing 100 fold every year."

"small the population of rec fishers is increasing 100 fold every year"

Please provide evidence that the rec fishers are increasing 100 fold every year.

Tarpon Monoxide

why do they start after instead of before MLK day?

"Because there are no federal employees at work to process the catch data in order to assess when the TAC is projected to be filled thus the seasons starts after MLK day."

"I worked on that one back in the 90's.."

But you left out the best part of the story as usual.

More to that story than you know. A little history on why the date was changed.

Back in the 90's the king mackerel gill net season was opened before the MLK holiday. Their gill net quota was almost met just before the MLK holiday. The NMFS knew this. They also knew that in those 3 days of the quota not being monitored and shut down the netters could take all they could get before the end of the holiday before the fed employees shut the fishery down.

"Because there are no federal employees at work to process the catch data in order to assess when the TAC is projected to be filled thus the seasons starts after MLK day."

How convenient that was for the netters. The netters took basically double their quota for that year while the blind eye of the law let them.

Only two possibilities here, either the NMFS set it up that way purposely or a more feasible possibility that they were just incompetent. Neither possibility is flattering to good and proper fisheries management.

Since this unfairly hurt the commercial hook and line king mackerel fishermen the NMFS got sued over this issue back then. Since the NMFS et al, either did it on purpose or from incompetence neither of those possibilities were flattering so the NMFS thought best to change the law so as not have the possibility that the netters would use the 3 days of the MLK holiday to over fish their quota.

The lawsuit shined light on the roaches and they scrambled to change the law.

• Season – opens at 6:00 a.m. the day after the Martin Luther King Jr. Federal Holiday. Open the first weekend and remains open on weekdays only until the quota is met.
• Trip limit – 45,000 pounds

Notice the season is only open the first weekend after the opening and all later weekends are closed.

"Because there are no federal employees at work to process the catch data in order to assess when the TAC is projected to be filled thus the seasons starts after MLK day."

 

"The TAC is 563,480 lbs and with this cold will be filled in 2-3 days."

The NMFS knew that the total TAC can be taken in just 2-3 days. So when the king mackerel gill net quota was almost met on that friday before that MLK holiday they knew that the netters knew they could get well more than the TAC in the 3 days of the MLK holiday because the season was not shut down properly..

Back then, the NMFS knew full well that no federal employees would be at work over the 3 day holiday to process the gill net king mackerel data in order to assess when the TAC is projected to be filled. How convenient. But they got sued and the law was changed.

harbison

Today, per FWC, Florida has 1,390,000 resident who fish Florida Waters. That does not count the thousands of tourist. Even with the population explosion, thanks to strict regulation,  fishing in the Sunshine State can still be very rewarding. Can't help but wonder what fishing today would be like if we had the same regulations decades ago. 

mudflatmark

how lon

CaptJ

A lot of truth to both sides of this discussion. I was a hook and line commercial back in the day and watched as the high roller rig boats decimated the macks and kings off of south fl. I also watched as the environment was trashed and the shrimp and bait fish were run off. Grouper and Mutton fishing was the next target and we all did a pretty good job on them down here. Been living in the Keys for a while now and have observed the decline of Black Grouper in the last few years to where I don't fish for them anymore. Sharks have taken over and I don't care to feed them the last few quality bottom fish that are left. I feel that the shark problem is due to a couple of factors with the lack of food coupled with the lack of culling a few has aggravated the problem. When I clean a few fish at the dock reef sharks always show up. Try to catch more than a few Yellowtail and the sharks will be there. As for the others, destroy the habitat and watch the bait and fish go away. Ballyhoo are being overfished even with the regs on them. Went deep dropping the other day and caught as many sharks as bottom fish. Go down to the Caribbean Islands and see what the lack of sensible regulation produces. I've fished and dove down there and can tell you first hand how that worked out. Politics and money have been the main contributor to our fisheries decline.

harbison

Very interesting!
" Politics and money have been the main contributor to our fisheries decline."
How true.

stevenattsu

And the charter boat fleet you pimp is decimating unregulated, locally known trash fish. By giving them different names to the clueless tin can tourists