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Florida is #1 in economic and fiscal freedom

tagtag Posts: 9,656 Admiral
Florida ranks #1 in economic and fiscal freedom. Florida ranks #2 overall. So says the CATO Institute. New York, California and Hawaii are the worst. New Hampshire #1 overall.


https://www.freedominthe50states.org/

Replies

  • altuckaltuck TallahasseePosts: 1,470 Officer
    But but but desantis.
  • Big BatteryBig Battery Posts: 22,625 AG
    New Hampshire and Texas have the two highest property taxes in the country.  Not sure how that factors into the equation of economic and fiscal freedom.  California ranks lower than North Carolina and Florida so the numbers must be averages because I know that isnt accurate.  There are a lot of loopholes in property taxes.  CA has Prop 13.

    Property tax has big bearing on retirement.

    Does FL have any property tax loop holes?  Like age or primary home type of tax curtains?
  • 1outlaw1outlaw Naples FLPosts: 1,844 Captain
    New Hampshire and Texas have the two highest property taxes in the country.  Not sure how that factors into the equation of economic and fiscal freedom.  California ranks lower than North Carolina and Florida so the numbers must be averages because I know that isnt accurate.  There are a lot of loopholes in property taxes.  CA has Prop 13.

    Property tax has big bearing on retirement.

    Does FL have any property tax loop holes?  Like age or primary home type of tax curtains?
    Homestead exemption.
    Jason :USA
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 42,523 AG
    Battery,

    According to your link, it is the taxes collected as a percent of fair market value, so it includes all exemptions you would get. The question would be, how do they arrive at fair market value? Most property appraisers state offices undervalue property compared to the actual sales price. They use a group value of some kind. Then you have Save our Homes in Florida plus homestead and other exemptions, so the value taxed may only be 1% of the home's actual retail market value, Same could be true for California, the actual market value could be higher than appraised and then after exemptions the percent to value would be low. Also due to higher home values in California, the taxes on a  3/2 2000 sqft house may be higher, but as a percent of the value it would be lower, 

    Clicking on a state in the OP link gives details on how they arrive at their listing. Interesting ranking system. 

    Former Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 19,646 AG
    edited September 1 #7
    About the author:

    "William Ruger is Vice President for Research and Policy at the Charles Koch Institute"

    Lemmings will be lemmings.
  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 8,384 Admiral
    altuck said:
    But but but desantis.
    What great guy, you’re lucky…
    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English
    ********************************************************************************************************************************
    I'm typing keeping close my "pasta hole"!
    Political correctness is a mental disease that can put you in slavery. The only cure is to turn on the brain.
    Not my blame if you do something that matches what I don't like.
    Vulgus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
  • altuckaltuck TallahasseePosts: 1,470 Officer
    About the author:

    "William Ruger is Vice President for Research and Policy at the Charles Koch Institute"

    Lemmings will be lemmings.
    So, nothing to argue with the data, just denigrate the source.
    Not untypical
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 19,646 AG
    edited September 1 #10
    I wasn't denigrating the source.  I was quoting the source and denigrating people like you and the OP who believe such arbitrary nonsense.

    You know, denigration not unlike your first post in the thread.
  • dave44dave44 Posts: 18,351 AG
    edited September 1 #11
    altuck said:
    About the author:

    "William Ruger is Vice President for Research and Policy at the Charles Koch Institute"

    Lemmings will be lemmings.
    So, nothing to argue with the data, just denigrate the source.
    Not untypical
       He is a political ideologue and can’t see beyond his indoctrination.

       The way I hear it, the Koch institute funds middle of the road and leftist republicans. As a matter of fact, I believe the group is getting behind a nut that just lost her primary in Wyoming.
      As far as the “information “ in the article, I haven’t had a chance to look at it. I do think every single graph, tally, statistic and article these days are so opinionated it’s hard to dig through them for the nugget of truth.
     ( That may, or may not be, included in it). 😆 
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 42,523 AG
    edited September 1 #12
    Cato institute is a Libertarian think tank and any of their studies will reflect that view. Aren't all polls about how good or bad a place is all arbitrary? They will reflect the values of the institute that made the list.

    Willaim Ruger holds positions at several organizations. 

    Former Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • Mister-JrMister-Jr Posts: 29,597 AG
    I don't know what economic and fiscal freedom means.
    Vote for the other candidate
  • tagtag Posts: 9,656 Admiral
    I wasn't denigrating the source.  I was quoting the source and denigrating people like you and the OP who believe such arbitrary nonsense.

    You know, denigration not unlike your first post in the thread.
    Why is it so hard for you to accept that Florida is a good place to live?
  • This is usually when I tell the Wife... Yes Honey and go in the other room..
    Killin and Grillin :grin
  • ferris1248ferris1248 Posts: 23,916 Moderator
    edited September 1 #17
    This is usually when I tell the Wife... Yes Honey and go in the other room..
    And how does that go?  Honestly.

    "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole of the law. The rest is commentary."

    Rabbi Hillel (c20 BCE)

  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 19,646 AG
    edited September 2 #18
    tag said:
    I wasn't denigrating the source.  I was quoting the source and denigrating people like you and the OP who believe such arbitrary nonsense.

    You know, denigration not unlike your first post in the thread.
    Why is it so hard for you to accept that Florida is a good place to live?
    Florida is a great place to live.

    But not because a former nominee for the ambassador to Afghanistan says so.
  • tagtag Posts: 9,656 Admiral
    tag said:
    I wasn't denigrating the source.  I was quoting the source and denigrating people like you and the OP who believe such arbitrary nonsense.

    You know, denigration not unlike your first post in the thread.
    Why is it so hard for you to accept that Florida is a good place to live?
    Florida is a great place to live.

    But not because a former nominee for the ambassador to Afghanistan says so.
    Okay, I heard some Antifa goons and socialist agitators also said Florida is a great place to live. Is that better?
  • Big BatteryBig Battery Posts: 22,625 AG
    edited September 2 #20
    cadman said:
    Battery,

    According to your link, it is the taxes collected as a percent of fair market value, so it includes all exemptions you would get. The question would be, how do they arrive at fair market value? Most property appraisers state offices undervalue property compared to the actual sales price. They use a group value of some kind. Then you have Save our Homes in Florida plus homestead and other exemptions, so the value taxed may only be 1% of the home's actual retail market value, Same could be true for California, the actual market value could be higher than appraised and then after exemptions the percent to value would be low. Also due to higher home values in California, the taxes on a  3/2 2000 sqft house may be higher, but as a percent of the value it would be lower, 

    Clicking on a state in the OP link gives details on how they arrive at their listing. Interesting ranking system. 
    THere is a huge disparity in property tax rates in california. Each government can have a different rate... then prop 13 kicks in which allows you to carry forward your property assessment to new property and limits property valuations increases to 2% per year unless it is a new purchase and you dont have a prop13 carry forward. So in a given neighborhood you could have very very large disparities in property taxes paid. Then on new tracts they had this special assessment of 3 to 4% per year that circumvented prop 13 and property rates and wasnt tax deductible. These were called Mello-Roos Bonds. Sort of like a HOA fee but just in a regular development used to pay for new infrastructure.

    i found that site because i didnt completely agree with the op. I wondered how property tax plays in, in reference to fiscal freedom. If you are going to retire, doesnt property tax play a bigger role than income tax?  Tennessee has high property and sales tax...completely contrary to retirement goals.
  • Tony RomaTony Roma Posts: 3,457 Captain
    #1!!! Do we get a trophy?
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 42,523 AG
    cadman said:
    Battery,

    According to your link, it is the taxes collected as a percent of fair market value, so it includes all exemptions you would get. The question would be, how do they arrive at fair market value? Most property appraisers state offices undervalue property compared to the actual sales price. They use a group value of some kind. Then you have Save our Homes in Florida plus homestead and other exemptions, so the value taxed may only be 1% of the home's actual retail market value, Same could be true for California, the actual market value could be higher than appraised and then after exemptions the percent to value would be low. Also due to higher home values in California, the taxes on a  3/2 2000 sqft house may be higher, but as a percent of the value it would be lower, 

    Clicking on a state in the OP link gives details on how they arrive at their listing. Interesting ranking system. 
    THere is a huge disparity in property tax rates in california. Each government can have a different rate... then prop 13 kicks in which allows you to carry forward your property assessment to new property and limits property valuations increases to 2% per year unless it is a new purchase and you dont have a prop13 carry forward. So in a given neighborhood you could have very very large disparities in property taxes paid. Then on new tracts they had this special assessment of 3 to 4% per year that circumvented prop 13 and property rates and wasnt tax deductible. These were called Mello-Roos Bonds. Sort of like a HOA fee but just in a regular development used to pay for new infrastructure.

    i found that site because i didnt completely agree with the op. I wondered how property tax plays in, in reference to fiscal freedom. If you are going to retire, doesnt property tax play a bigger role than income tax?  Tennessee has high property and sales tax...completely contrary to retirement goals.
    Save our homes in Florida is similar to prop 13. 

    Yes taxes can vary by property here depending on exemptions you qualify for. It can also vary by county. 

    As I said it also claims to use market value, which can be significantly higher than accessed value. 

    I think all they do is total the property tax revenue and the market value of properties and get a number.

    I think a better way would have been millage rate and average home value.





    Former Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • lilwoodylilwoody BuladeanPosts: 1,635 Captain
    edited September 2 #23
    New Hampshire and Texas have the two highest property taxes in the country.  Not sure how that factors into the equation of economic and fiscal freedom.  California ranks lower than North Carolina and Florida so the numbers must be averages because I know that isnt accurate.  There are a lot of loopholes in property taxes.  CA has Prop 13.

    Property tax has big bearing on retirement.

    Does FL have any property tax loop holes?  Like age or primary home type of tax curtains?
    Basically the longer you stay in your house in Florida, the more you save in property taxes. The proposed taxes on our house we bought in 92 are 700$ per year. A identical house across the street that the folks bought 2 years ago are 3 grand.
    On the other hand. Our cabin in NC is market value 100k less than our house in Florida but the taxes are twice as much as here. They are still half what the same value new purchased home would be in Florida.
    "Those who will trade freedom for security will have neither".
  • Big BatteryBig Battery Posts: 22,625 AG
    edited September 2 #24
    lilwoody said:
    New Hampshire and Texas have the two highest property taxes in the country.  Not sure how that factors into the equation of economic and fiscal freedom.  California ranks lower than North Carolina and Florida so the numbers must be averages because I know that isnt accurate.  There are a lot of loopholes in property taxes.  CA has Prop 13.

    Property tax has big bearing on retirement.

    Does FL have any property tax loop holes?  Like age or primary home type of tax curtains?
    Basically the longer you stay in your house in Florida, the more you save in property taxes. The proposed taxes on our house we bought in 92 are 700$ per year. A identical house across the street that the folks bought 2 years ago are 3 grand.
    On the other hand. Our cabin in NC is market value 100k less than our house in Florida but the taxes are twice as much as here. They are still half what the same value new purchased home would be in Florida.

    So they dont reevaluate property values periodically? Is that how the longer owned homes have lower rates?

    What if you move? Does the game start all over again?

    I think the Prop 13 method is very unfair as the burden for prop taxes will shift heavier and heavier onto the young people.... sort of another baby boomer idea to pass responsibility for paying taxes onto the next generation.

    Property taxes in NC are more equitable and because they are distributed, they are lower for everyone. I dont know the frequency the re-evaluation is done on values.  Our rate in Hendersonville is [I think] around 1.0 of assessed value, which is close to market value. That is divided between the county at .6 and the city at .4 or something like that.

    I think to help old people would be to do a "homestead" type of break, where if you are older than a certain age (70?), it is your primary home, and you have lived in it for over 5 years, then you can deduct $100k from the assessed value.  Something along those lines.

    We do have a lot of people that move here from Florida or they have a second home here. Half the license plates in the summer are FL plates.  Still a lot of northerners too.  So the taxes must not be that bad. Plus the ************** lowered the income tax by a huge amount.
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 42,523 AG
    edited September 2 #25
    In Florida, the property is re-evaluated every year. But Save Our Homes caps the increase in value to 3%. So the longer you live the larger your SOS is. If you move to a new homestead, you are allowed to transfer some or all of the SOS to your new home. So you could have a house worth $400,000, accessed at $300,000, and be taxed at a $150,000 value. Then your $25,0000 or $50,000 homestead exemption is deducted, and over 65 or a widow or widower gets another $500 off for each. 

    In Florida, the tax burden is shifted to tourism and new residents to the state. 

    Former Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • dave44dave44 Posts: 18,351 AG
    I have a love hate relationship with property taxes. Texas doesn’t tax residents on their income- good. But many of the population centers are big government whackos that always need money, so they all get to set their rate over the state rate, like gas taxes, bad.

        The best thing about property taxes is it gets the lower brackets to pitch in too, they tax the snot out of apartment complexes and home rentals, so the rent reflects that.

       Again, it makes the business or controlling entity the tax collector, but the masses don’t see the invisible hand of government reaching into their pockets.




  • ferris1248ferris1248 Posts: 23,916 Moderator
    And to those who have a second home in Florida with a primary residence out of state.



    "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole of the law. The rest is commentary."

    Rabbi Hillel (c20 BCE)

  • dave44dave44 Posts: 18,351 AG
    And to those who have a second home in Florida with a primary residence out of state.


    True, but that happens everywhere? But some states make that hurt more than others. 🥲
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 42,523 AG
    Take the house I live in. Market value about $200,000. The county says it is worth $150,000. The assessed value is $78,000 due to $72,000 in Save our Home value, The transfer value of SOS is $67,000 to a new home. Then there is a $50,000 in homestead and pays taxes on $28,000. 




    Former Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • Big BatteryBig Battery Posts: 22,625 AG
    cadman said:
    In Florida, the property is re-evaluated every year. But Save Our Homes caps the increase in value to 3%. So the longer you live the larger your SOS is. If you move to a new homestead, you are allowed to transfer some or all of the SOS to your new home. So you could have a house worth $400,000, accessed at $300,000, and be taxed at a $150,000 value. Then your $25,0000 or $50,000 homestead exemption is deducted, and over 65 or a widow or widower gets another $500 off for each. 

    In Florida, the tax burden is shifted to tourism and new residents to the state. 

    Or young buyers.. the kids of long time residents who are buying their first homes.
  • tagtag Posts: 9,656 Admiral
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