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  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 6,837 Admiral
    edited May 10 #92
    When people want to kill they find the way. We in Italy have experienced any kind of crime perpetrated by common criminals, mafia people, leftist terrorism (brigate rosse, red brigades) in the seventies/eighties. 
    Any kind of weapon: handguns, shotguns and rifles, full auto, bazookas, explosives, etc.
    With one of the most restrictive gun law in the whole world.
    At the black market you can buy what you want. 
    In Switzerland any male between 20 to 40 is an Army reservist, they serve three/four weeks any year and they bring at home the assault rifle all the times.

    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English
    ********************************************************************************************************************************
    I'm typing keeping close my "pasta hole"!
    Political correctness is a mental disease that can put you in slavery. The only cure is to turn on the brain.
    No hope in herd immunity although we don't miss the sheep
    Vulgus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
  • ProfessorOProfessorO Posts: 875 Officer
    When historians look back at the start of the start of the 20th century they are going to think that there was too much lead in the water.
    The goal of scientists is to maximize what we know of the real world by using the mathematical world to optimize the information from the observed world.
  • GardawgGardawg The Sportfishing Capital Of The WorldPosts: 11,931 AG
    When historians look back at the start of the start of the 20th century they are going to think that there was too much lead in the water.
    In 1901 ?

    Yeah, the water was probably contaminated.
    "Forgiveness is a strange thing. It can be sometimes easier to forgive our enemies than our friends. It can be hardest of all to forgive people we love." Fred Rogers  
  • conchydongconchydong Pompano BeachPosts: 9,522 Admiral
    The professor is a “lead head”.

    “Everyone behaves badly--given the chance.”
    ― Ernest Hemingway

  • TheMelManTheMelMan SoWeGAPosts: 598 Officer
    Mister-Jr said:
    Mister-Jr said:
    tag said:
    kellercl said:
    People need to take better care of their guns.  A 6th grader shouldn't be able to get a gun.  Use a safe folks.
    When I was 12 or 13 I kept both of my rifles in my room. Never shot anyone with them. More importantly I never tried. I was taught about firearms and the consequences of there use. That is what is missing these day. 
    People with bad intentions are not barred from buying guns. It has nothing to do with MSM, it has more to do with more guns, more shootings.
    So using your logic, the guns fire by themselves. I think society and thug culture needs to change for there to be less shootings.
    How do propose doing that?  People use guns to shoot each other, no doubt about that, but if guns were harder to get, fewer thugs would have them.


    Remember Switzerland?  Every home required to have a gun.  Not really a killing epidemic there.  Disregard for the law comes from parenting, schooling and social constructs.  Teach kids that " Thou shall not commit murder and you should not steal"  and you have a better society but some don't believe in families raising children or Laws given by God or punishment for lawbreaking.  So here we are with a lawless society.  Not the knives fault, not the cars' fault, not the weapon's fault, if society refuses to teach right and wrong or even define it, then you lose society.  There have to be black and white laws with significant punishment that is observed by society.  And NO Double Standard.............

    long story short ,  every man is doing as he sees fit and we have a problem.  Soon the military will step in as in all failing systems and our freedoms will grow fewer and fewer. 
    GOOGLE:  Helping Totalitarian Governments Control their populations with Surveillance,  Suppression of information, speech and ideas, now bringing Totalitarian ideas to the US.   Thanks but no thanks!
  • 4drinkmin4drinkmin The BarPosts: 89 Deckhand
    When historians look back at the start of the start of the 20th century they are going to think that there was too much lead in the water.
    Eating more shrooms today?
  • RStyleRStyle Posts: 1,566 Captain
    When people want to kill they find the way. We in Italy have experienced any kind of crime perpetrated by common criminals, mafia people, leftist terrorism (brigate rosse, red brigades) in the seventies/eighties. 
    Any kind of weapon: handguns, shotguns and rifles, full auto, bazookas, explosives, etc.
    With one of the most restrictive gun law in the whole world.
    At the black market you can buy what you want. 
    In Switzerland any male between 20 to 40 is an Army reservist, they serve three/four weeks any year and they bring at home the assault rifle all the times.

    Maybe need to review the laws in Switzerland...a pro gun society. With almost no shooting homicides

    Very difficult to get a concealed permit unless you work security
    Yes...they bring the assault weapon home because the are considered part of the Swiss Militia BUT no ammunition. In a national emergency you have to go to the nearest armory to get ammunition  (in the past they were allowed to keep 50 rounds in a sealed container that was inspected yearly)
    Very difficult to purchase semiautomatic weapons.... and high capacity magazines are not allowed.
  • RStyleRStyle Posts: 1,566 Captain
    cadman said:
    RStyle said:
    Just today's newspaper (happens every single day):

    Brevard News: No injuries reported after shots fired downtown Melbourne
    Orlando Sentinel:  1) Man killed in shooting Monday morning outside US Customs office
                                  2) Florida girls struck by stray bullet.
    ( not including recent 6th grade girl shooting in school and the Aventura Mall incident. Not including the 6 shot at the birthday party)

    Mental illness.................hmmmmm.
    For some reason this country seems to be the only modern civilized country with mental illness. 
    Wonder how many were shot in Spain or France.......in the last week.
    They use knives and attack police officers there too

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56862436

    A female police employee has been killed in a knife attack at a police station south-west of Paris.

    Anti-terror prosecutors have taken over the inquiry, and the killing is being treated as a possible terrorist attack.

    The attacker, who reportedly came to France from Tunisia several years ago, was shot dead by police.


    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54729957

    Three people have died in a knife attack at a church in Nice, in what French President Emmanuel Macron said was an "Islamist terrorist attack".

    He said France would not surrender its core values after visiting the Notre-Dame basilica in the southern city. An extra 4,000 troops are being deployed to protect churches and schools.


    It ain't just the U.S. that has issues with violence. 

    So what you are saying is that they had a knife attack in 2018, one in 2019 and 3 people killed in a knife attack in 2020 (usually terrorism) and you are using this information to say that they are as violent as us, where people die or are injured by gun violence every single day!!  ( several organizations say average 100/day)
    Another..........HMMMMMM!
  • Florida BullfrogFlorida Bullfrog Posts: 4,195 Captain
    RStyle said:
    When people want to kill they find the way. We in Italy have experienced any kind of crime perpetrated by common criminals, mafia people, leftist terrorism (brigate rosse, red brigades) in the seventies/eighties. 
    Any kind of weapon: handguns, shotguns and rifles, full auto, bazookas, explosives, etc.
    With one of the most restrictive gun law in the whole world.
    At the black market you can buy what you want. 
    In Switzerland any male between 20 to 40 is an Army reservist, they serve three/four weeks any year and they bring at home the assault rifle all the times.

    Maybe need to review the laws in Switzerland...a pro gun society. With almost no shooting homicides

    Very difficult to get a concealed permit unless you work security
    Yes...they bring the assault weapon home because the are considered part of the Swiss Militia BUT no ammunition. In a national emergency you have to go to the nearest armory to get ammunition  (in the past they were allowed to keep 50 rounds in a sealed container that was inspected yearly)
    Very difficult to purchase semiautomatic weapons.... and high capacity magazines are not allowed.
    Let's break that down.

    1. "Very difficult to get a concealed permit unless you work security." 

    So what? CCW holders in the U.S. aren't the ones doing the mass shootings, so CCW permits being rarely issued in Switzerland is irrelevant.

    2. "They bring assault weapons home... but no ammunition." 

    You mean their fully automatics? Guns that the average American doesn't have access too and that aren't used in mass shootings in the U.S.? 

    Re-review their gun laws. They're allowed to have semi-automatics, of which the common civilian AR fall into, just fine. The rules that apply to their military issued automatic weapons are different than their privately owned semi-automatics. 

    3. "High capacity magazines aren't allowed."

    Yes they are, with a waiver since 2019, and prior to that they were allowed pretty liberally. 

    So where were all of the mass shootings in Switzerland before 2019? 


  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 6,837 Admiral
    Switzerland accepted the EU gun rules only to keep Schengen advantages. But at the end they applied a lot of amendments that leave their previous law practically unchanged.
    Aside the fact the EU firearms law is idiot and totally useless for the goals they thought to achieve.
    As first they defined the new rules after the emotive effects of some terrorist attacks (because, we all know, terrorists buy guns regularly, like thugs in Chicago do :D) and any rule based on emotivity it's good only to satisfy a certain side of population who have only a emotive Hollywoodian vision of guns (so scared and ignorant people incapable to pragmatically analyze the gun-related situations). But mainly making a law to strict the rules for guns possession by honest people in order to impede at criminals to get guns it's useful like to stop selling supercars believing this it's enough to eliminate people who speeding.
    So at the end the new EU law is only an overcharge of bureaucracy and annoying practical effects for honest people because almost nothing changed about possession of guns and high capacity magazines (simply now people must register their high capacity magazines, wasting time and money) but we can't use some guns and magazines we regularly detain for regular activities (hunting, sport shooting). And obviously meantime criminals continue to use what they want. 
    As usual the PC at its finest, lost-lost.
    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English
    ********************************************************************************************************************************
    I'm typing keeping close my "pasta hole"!
    Political correctness is a mental disease that can put you in slavery. The only cure is to turn on the brain.
    No hope in herd immunity although we don't miss the sheep
    Vulgus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 6,837 Admiral
    Any clues on Russian gun law?

    Russian media: 11 killed in a school shooting in Kazan

    MOSCOW (AP) — A school shooting erupted Tuesday in the Russian city of Kazan, leaving 11 people dead and four wounded, Russia’s state RIA Novosti news agency reported, citing emergency services.

    https://www.wivb.com/news/9-people-killed-in-a-school-shooting-in-russia-reports/
    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English
    ********************************************************************************************************************************
    I'm typing keeping close my "pasta hole"!
    Political correctness is a mental disease that can put you in slavery. The only cure is to turn on the brain.
    No hope in herd immunity although we don't miss the sheep
    Vulgus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
  • dave44dave44 Posts: 14,029 AG
  • Big BatteryBig Battery Posts: 21,179 AG
    RStyle said:
    Just today's newspaper (happens every single day):

    Brevard News: No injuries reported after shots fired downtown Melbourne
    Orlando Sentinel:  1) Man killed in shooting Monday morning outside US Customs office
                                  2) Florida girls struck by stray bullet.
    ( not including recent 6th grade girl shooting in school and the Aventura Mall incident. Not including the 6 shot at the birthday party)

    Mental illness.................hmmmmm.
    For some reason this country seems to be the only modern civilized country with mental illness. 
    Wonder how many were shot in Spain or France.......in the last week.

    You fail to put the your argument into context and the reason the 2nd amendment exists. If you choose to hide behind the neighbor with a gun, that is your choice... But in the context of the last 100 years comparing societies that have taken guns away to those that have easy access to them, our guns are still 100 million deaths short of being considered a problem.
    If you want to figure out what is wrong with people that want to kill other people go ahead, but leave guns out of it, because that is not the issue. YOu will never end the killing by getting rid of guns. You only change the dynamic of who has the power.
  • treemanjohntreemanjohn Posts: 6,241 Admiral
    dave44 said:
    https://youtu.be/Ukde8mlkWpw

    That’s a bunch of weapons. 
    All compliments of our beloved friends in China 
    We’re like the piggy bank that everybody is robbing, and that ends
  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 6,837 Admiral
    edited May 11 #107

    Sorry guys. Today in Lonato del Garda has been a little different  B)
    Anyway your team did a great job under a terrible weather against our team.





    Now USA is shooting for Bronze in Men's event, against France.



    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English
    ********************************************************************************************************************************
    I'm typing keeping close my "pasta hole"!
    Political correctness is a mental disease that can put you in slavery. The only cure is to turn on the brain.
    No hope in herd immunity although we don't miss the sheep
    Vulgus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 6,837 Admiral
    edited May 11 #108
    Just to complete the report.





    Sorry, USA Team lost the Bronze event against France.


    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English
    ********************************************************************************************************************************
    I'm typing keeping close my "pasta hole"!
    Political correctness is a mental disease that can put you in slavery. The only cure is to turn on the brain.
    No hope in herd immunity although we don't miss the sheep
    Vulgus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
  • RStyleRStyle Posts: 1,566 Captain
    Any clues on Russian gun law?

    Russian media: 11 killed in a school shooting in Kazan

    MOSCOW (AP) — A school shooting erupted Tuesday in the Russian city of Kazan, leaving 11 people dead and four wounded, Russia’s state RIA Novosti news agency reported, citing emergency services.

    https://www.wivb.com/news/9-people-killed-in-a-school-shooting-in-russia-reports/
    We will see soon how Putin and the Russian Government respond to this. Will it be similar to the U.S. response. Thoughts and prayers?
    Los Angeles times reports today 120 people shot in the U.S. in the last 72 hours.
  • 4drinkmin4drinkmin The BarPosts: 89 Deckhand
    RStyle said:
    Any clues on Russian gun law?

    Russian media: 11 killed in a school shooting in Kazan

    MOSCOW (AP) — A school shooting erupted Tuesday in the Russian city of Kazan, leaving 11 people dead and four wounded, Russia’s state RIA Novosti news agency reported, citing emergency services.

    https://www.wivb.com/news/9-people-killed-in-a-school-shooting-in-russia-reports/
    We will see soon how Putin and the Russian Government respond to this. Will it be similar to the U.S. response. Thoughts and prayers?
    Los Angeles times reports today 120 people shot in the U.S. in the last 72 hours.
    How many of those were in Chicago?
  • RStyleRStyle Posts: 1,566 Captain
    The context of the 2nd amendment was to create a militia ready to protect our new government (who did not have an organized ARMY at the time) against a tyrannical government...which at the time was England. If England (or France) came back....we did not have any way to defend ourselves, except for a militia or armed citizens (which could not be black, women, Native Americans and was limited to able body white men over a certain age.) Surprisingly, the 2nd Amendment did not apply to everybody.
     Switzerland opted for a similar approach to our 2nd Amendment by not having an army, but having an armed militia to protect their country. People able to keep a firearm at home in case of a National Emergency.
    I do not think the original intent of the Amendment was written to protect american citizens from other american citizens since, today, more americans shoot each other more frequently than americans that are shot in other civilized countries by other americans or foreigners.

    You can compare the greatest and richest nation in the planet with many countries that are not at the same category and we look great with respect to gun violence. Yemen, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Venezuela, Guatemala, Brazil etc. 
     I prefer to compare with other successful civilized countries like the European Union countries, the Scandinavian countries etc.

    After every shooting we jump and blame mental illness. I have to then assume mental illness does not occur or is minimal in those countries with very little gun violence.
    Mental illness is very easy blame because many of the mass shootings are done by mentally unstable people and they get a lot of publicity.....but unfortunately, most of the daily gun violence is not
  • Mister-JrMister-Jr Posts: 27,926 AG
    A man who gets it. ^
    Vote for the other candidate
  • RStyleRStyle Posts: 1,566 Captain
    So.....you look at this chart......published in a gun magazine......and the problem is not too many guns but it is mental illness
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 36,523 AG
    RStyle said:
    The context of the 2nd amendment was to create a militia ready to protect our new government (who did not have an organized ARMY at the time) against a tyrannical government...which at the time was England. If England (or France) came back....we did not have any way to defend ourselves, except for a militia or armed citizens (which could not be black, women, Native Americans and was limited to able body white men over a certain age.) Surprisingly, the 2nd Amendment did not apply to everybody.
     Switzerland opted for a similar approach to our 2nd Amendment by not having an army, but having an armed militia to protect their country. People able to keep a firearm at home in case of a National Emergency.
    I do not think the original intent of the Amendment was written to protect american citizens from other american citizens since, today, more americans shoot each other more frequently than americans that are shot in other civilized countries by other americans or foreigners.

    You can compare the greatest and richest nation in the planet with many countries that are not at the same category and we look great with respect to gun violence. Yemen, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Venezuela, Guatemala, Brazil etc. 
     I prefer to compare with other successful civilized countries like the European Union countries, the Scandinavian countries etc.

    After every shooting we jump and blame mental illness. I have to then assume mental illness does not occur or is minimal in those countries with very little gun violence.
    Mental illness is very easy blame because many of the mass shootings are done by mentally unstable people and they get a lot of publicity.....but unfortunately, most of the daily gun violence is not
    The first ten amendments were added on to get the states to agree to adopt the constitution. Therefore, it would seem the original intent of the second amendment was for the states and it's citizens to protect themselves from any tyrannical government including the newly formed federal government, which many did not trust any more than some do today, There was fear among the independent states of losing their rights to govern themselves, hence the addition of the bill of rights.

    The courts and SCOTUS has ruled the second amendment gives every person the right to own and keep guns for the purpose of self defense. That has been established through many court cases. The court has also given the federal government very limited ability on regards to firearm controls (felons, mentally ill, and such) and left it up to the individual states to control carry and such. as long as the state does not infringe upon the right to own. 

    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 6,837 Admiral
    edited May 11 #115
    RStyle said:
    Any clues on Russian gun law?

    Russian media: 11 killed in a school shooting in Kazan

    MOSCOW (AP) — A school shooting erupted Tuesday in the Russian city of Kazan, leaving 11 people dead and four wounded, Russia’s state RIA Novosti news agency reported, citing emergency services.

    https://www.wivb.com/news/9-people-killed-in-a-school-shooting-in-russia-reports/
    We will see soon how Putin and the Russian Government respond to this. Will it be similar to the U.S. response. Thoughts and prayers?
    Los Angeles times reports today 120 people shot in the U.S. in the last 72 hours.
    They already said. More gun control. 
    The best way to fool people is giving them something totally useless (but very useful for the power) making it a popular need. Gun control, vaccines, lockdown, a new phone, etc. It changes the subject but the way is always the same.
    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English
    ********************************************************************************************************************************
    I'm typing keeping close my "pasta hole"!
    Political correctness is a mental disease that can put you in slavery. The only cure is to turn on the brain.
    No hope in herd immunity although we don't miss the sheep
    Vulgus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
  • supratentorialsupratentorial FLPosts: 1,085 Officer
    4drinkmin said:
    RStyle said:
    Any clues on Russian gun law?

    Russian media: 11 killed in a school shooting in Kazan

    MOSCOW (AP) — A school shooting erupted Tuesday in the Russian city of Kazan, leaving 11 people dead and four wounded, Russia’s state RIA Novosti news agency reported, citing emergency services.

    https://www.wivb.com/news/9-people-killed-in-a-school-shooting-in-russia-reports/
    We will see soon how Putin and the Russian Government respond to this. Will it be similar to the U.S. response. Thoughts and prayers?
    Los Angeles times reports today 120 people shot in the U.S. in the last 72 hours.
    How many of those were in Chicago?
    A man who gets it ^
    The vast majority of shootings occur in small geographic areas where they refuse to control the criminals.
  • treemanjohntreemanjohn Posts: 6,241 Admiral
    4drinkmin said:
    RStyle said:
    Any clues on Russian gun law?

    Russian media: 11 killed in a school shooting in Kazan

    MOSCOW (AP) — A school shooting erupted Tuesday in the Russian city of Kazan, leaving 11 people dead and four wounded, Russia’s state RIA Novosti news agency reported, citing emergency services.

    https://www.wivb.com/news/9-people-killed-in-a-school-shooting-in-russia-reports/
    We will see soon how Putin and the Russian Government respond to this. Will it be similar to the U.S. response. Thoughts and prayers?
    Los Angeles times reports today 120 people shot in the U.S. in the last 72 hours.
    How many of those were in Chicago?
    A man who gets it ^
    The vast majority of shootings occur in small geographic areas where they refuse to control the criminals.
    Blacks killing blacks are always ignored to serve the bigger cause. Disarmament 
    We’re like the piggy bank that everybody is robbing, and that ends
  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 6,837 Admiral
    edited May 11 #118
    RStyle said:
    So.....you look at this chart......published in a gun magazine......and the problem is not too many guns but it is mental illness
    This according to your theory should match almost perfectly with the homicide rates of the same countries. 
    But it doesn’t match, at all.
    No one of that countries rank equivalent in homicide with your chart.
    USA don’t rank first in this one (the first I found).
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

    Moreover in a lot of charts USA leads exactly in the same way, with the second very far. USA is still a great country, despite some Americans (I’m not referring to you, be clear).
    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English
    ********************************************************************************************************************************
    I'm typing keeping close my "pasta hole"!
    Political correctness is a mental disease that can put you in slavery. The only cure is to turn on the brain.
    No hope in herd immunity although we don't miss the sheep
    Vulgus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
  • dave44dave44 Posts: 14,029 AG
    RStyle said:
    So.....you look at this chart......published in a gun magazine......and the problem is not too many guns but it is mental illness
    This according to your theory should match almost perfectly with the homicide rates of the same countries. 
    But it doesn’t match, at all.
    No one of that countries rank equivalent in homicide with your chart.
    USA ranks 94th in this one (the first I found).

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

    Moreover in a lot of charts USA leads exactly in the same way, with the second very far. USA is still a great country, despite some Americans (I’m not referring to you, be clear).
    That’s right. By that chart with the inferred result the US citizens should be killing each other by the millions / year.
        What that chart tells me is if guns were the problem it would be a glaring catastrophe. And it’s not.
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 36,523 AG
    RStyle said:
    So.....you look at this chart......published in a gun magazine......and the problem is not too many guns but it is mental illness
    Which gun magazine?

    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • MelbourneMarkMelbourneMark Posts: 2,709 Captain
    Look up the stats on gun deaths.  ~60% is suicide and the vast majority of the rest is felonious activities.   For some reason we like drugs/crime here in the USA and mostly major cities(all democrat run btw, and most have many gun laws). 

    To blame guns owners, many here, for all of these deaths is ridiculous.   yes, we all should secure our guns so no accidents, and we all should teach others how to use guns and proper safety. 

    But, we cannot change the morality of a nation.  The morality of those who take their own life or the morality of those who kill each other for whatever criminal activity they are engaged in. 

    Dems fix chicago/detroit/baltimore/ ny city crime waves  first and then the rest of us will take your suggestions seriously.  The fact that you have only made those cities worse in the past 60+ years makes me and many other sane individuals think your ideas smell like dog poop. 
    *repub ideas may not be the best either as many of them smell too, but dem ideas havent worked
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