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When does the 2019-2020 Deer Harvest Report come out?

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  • deerflydeerfly Posts: 776 Officer
    let me guess, no one that was for harvest reporting saw this coming, lol
    "impossibility cannot be concluded from a sample of failed efforts" - Edsger W. Dijkstra
  • Florida BullfrogFlorida Bullfrog Posts: 3,434 Captain
    Oh Harvest Report, where are you? Are you lost? Are you hiding? Don’t be afraid!  Come out into the light. 
  • needtohuntmoreneedtohuntmore MelbournePosts: 368 Deckhand
    edited September 24 #64
    FWC is useless!  They couldn't manage a left hand nose picking class.

    If Florida started managing it's deer herd like most Western states there would be animals everywhere.

    They need to bucket all deer tags within specific game units based on deer population targets.  Then give out x amount of tags that go to private and public for y and z bucks and does respectively.  You can hunt all public land or private with permission within your unit but you have hard tags that need to be attached to the animal and called in upon harvest.  This works for pretty much all states that use it.  It's fool proof.  On top of that they need to address specific game unit issues, like too many predators or not enough food.  Seriously, we pay these people.  How do we get them out?!
  • Reel TealReel Teal Posts: 3,962 Captain
    You can help them out by expecting less of them lol 
  • H20dadH20dad Posts: 2,145 Captain
    Reel Teal said:
    You can help them out by expecting less of them lol 
    It’s sure worked for some communities in our culture. 
  • wayviswayvis FloridaPosts: 159 Deckhand
    FWC is useless!  They couldn't manage a left hand nose picking class.

    If Florida started managing it's deer herd like most Western states there would be animals everywhere.

    They need to bucket all deer tags within specific game units based on deer population targets.  Then give out x amount of tags that go to private and public for y and z bucks and does respectively.  You can hunt all public land or private with permission within your unit but you have hard tags that need to be attached to the animal and called in upon harvest.  This works for pretty much all states that use it.  It's fool proof.  On top of that they need to address specific game unit issues, like too many predators or not enough food.  Seriously, we pay these people.  How do we get them out?!
    So what happens if you don't have enough tags for all hunters? Oh let me guess, just another quota hunt program that you may get every drawn for every 5 years or so.
  • zimmy4209zimmy4209 Ocala FloridaPosts: 1,157 Officer
    No reason to post the data. Everyone already knows its way more hunters than harvested game. 
    Kinda like a defense attorney handing prosecutor the keys to the city. Wont take him long before he has no more clients. 
  • needtohuntmoreneedtohuntmore MelbournePosts: 368 Deckhand
    Wayvis, there isn't enough deer for the hunters so naturally there won't be enough tags....

    I think they should give out one archery tag for either sex and then have lotteries for buck only gun tags.  Then you would see some deer around here.  Plus add in some mountain lion and bear tags.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 11,693 AG
    Wayvis, there isn't enough deer for the hunters so naturally there won't be enough tags....

    I think they should give out one archery tag for either sex and then have lotteries for buck only gun tags.  Then you would see some deer around here.  Plus add in some mountain lion and bear tags.
    need to cut the season back to 3 days for GG.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • needtohuntmoreneedtohuntmore MelbournePosts: 368 Deckhand
    edited September 27 #71
    Whatever they do will be drastic whatever it is because with human population booming and deer declining sharply there won’t be anything left.  Their harvest number don’t mean anything because deer are being forced into hunt areas by development which skews their numbers in favor of a good population.  They should be cutting back big time right now to prevent collapse.  
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 11,693 AG
    Whatever they do will be drastic whatever it is because with human population booming and deer declining sharply there won’t be anything left.  Their harvest number don’t mean anything because deer are being forced into hunt areas by development which skews their numbers in favor of a good population.  They should be cutting back big time right now to prevent collapse.  
    and that is based on what?

    or just YO?
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • needtohuntmoreneedtohuntmore MelbournePosts: 368 Deckhand
    edited September 27 #73
    Read the FWCs south Florida deer study.  Pretty much sums it up.  Also look at the laws that keep coming out every year.  They are freaking out and are trying to find a solution that doesn’t impact hunters too much but at the same time conserve some deer.
  • Florida BullfrogFlorida Bullfrog Posts: 3,434 Captain
    edited September 27 #74
    Read the FWCs south Florida deer study.  Pretty much sums it up.  Also look at the laws that keep coming out every year.  They are freaking out and are trying to find a solution that doesn’t impact hunters too much but at the same time conserve some deer.
    That’s just south Florida and that’s due to the overpopulation of panthers squeezed into poor quality habitat. The deer population through the majority of the state isn’t collapsing at all. South Florida does not equal Florida. 
  • needtohuntmoreneedtohuntmore MelbournePosts: 368 Deckhand
    Well they certainly aren’t allowing more deer to be harvested and they are in a major data gathering period to gauge deer population.  Usually that means issues.  I have been hunting Central Florida for a really long time and let me tell you other than some private land and a handfull of WMAs the deer are gone.  So are the quail.  So are the ducks.  It’s the same story habitat loss and over hunting.
  • H20dadH20dad Posts: 2,145 Captain
    Well they certainly aren’t allowing more deer to be harvested and they are in a major data gathering period to gauge deer population.  Usually that means issues.  I have been hunting Central Florida for a really long time and let me tell you other than some private land and a handfull of WMAs the deer are gone.  So are the quail.  So are the ducks.  It’s the same story habitat loss and over hunting.
    You should start hunting panthers to save the deer, since 99% deer die from panthers....
  • needtohuntmoreneedtohuntmore MelbournePosts: 368 Deckhand
    I’m not trying to save the deer.  They are easy to cultivate from collapse.  It would just suck to have to go through the rebuilding years again.
  • joelunchbucketjoelunchbucket Posts: 488 Deckhand
    What places are you referring to?

    I’m not aware of any places in Central or North FL with habitat capable of holding deer that have been over hunted to the point of no longer sustaining a huntable population. Maybe on a small property, but doubtful on a scale of any consequence. Where there is sufficient habitat, there are deer. The quail issue isn’t unique to FL. It’s the same across the range of the species, except in a few portions of it. Waterfowl aren’t being over hunted either. There are some places where habitat is worse for them and also some that is better than it used to be. No question that population growth and the associated development reduces habitat availability but it sounds like you are talking about something different. 
  • Florida BullfrogFlorida Bullfrog Posts: 3,434 Captain
    Well they certainly aren’t allowing more deer to be harvested and they are in a major data gathering period to gauge deer population.  Usually that means issues.  I have been hunting Central Florida for a really long time and let me tell you other than some private land and a handfull of WMAs the deer are gone.  So are the quail.  So are the ducks.  It’s the same story habitat loss and over hunting.
    There’s more deer in north central and north Florida now than there’s ever been in my lifetime gauging by what I see in the woods. 
  • needtohuntmoreneedtohuntmore MelbournePosts: 368 Deckhand
    I don’t consider North Florida part of Florida lol.  That’s more of Georgia especially when it comes to habitat and deer growing capacity.  I don’t think deer will be eradicated from Florida but a collapse is happening.  Already collapsed in the south region, panthers have a big part of that but deer were going down before the panther.  Central Florida is probably next.   I bet most of central Florida only has 10 deer per square mile or less.  A few years that will be five.  Might as well be the 60s again.
  • wayviswayvis FloridaPosts: 159 Deckhand
    Well they certainly aren’t allowing more deer to be harvested and they are in a major data gathering period to gauge deer population.  Usually that means issues.  I have been hunting Central Florida for a really long time and let me tell you other than some private land and a handfull of WMAs the deer are gone.  So are the quail.  So are the ducks.  It’s the same story habitat loss and over hunting.
    There’s more deer in north central and north Florida now than there’s ever been in my lifetime gauging by what I see in the woods. 
    So does this mean that the new deer regs are working?
  • Florida BullfrogFlorida Bullfrog Posts: 3,434 Captain
    wayvis said:
    Well they certainly aren’t allowing more deer to be harvested and they are in a major data gathering period to gauge deer population.  Usually that means issues.  I have been hunting Central Florida for a really long time and let me tell you other than some private land and a handfull of WMAs the deer are gone.  So are the quail.  So are the ducks.  It’s the same story habitat loss and over hunting.
    There’s more deer in north central and north Florida now than there’s ever been in my lifetime gauging by what I see in the woods. 
    So does this mean that the new deer regs are working?
    Nope. The deer numbers and quality has been increasing since the early 2000s. Mostly due to large tracks of timber company land becoming unavailable for hunting since the real estate boom of the 2000s. Large tracks have went several years with little to no hunting. 

    I’ve seen no visible changes from the stand since APRs went in to place. I don’t expect to see any from the bag limits either. Few in north Florida are following them. 
  • wayviswayvis FloridaPosts: 159 Deckhand
    I don’t consider North Florida part of Florida lol.  That’s more of Georgia especially when it comes to habitat and deer growing capacity.  I don’t think deer will be eradicated from Florida but a collapse is happening.  Already collapsed in the south region, panthers have a big part of that but deer were going down before the panther.  Central Florida is probably next.   I bet most of central Florida only has 10 deer per square mile or less.  A few years that will be five.  Might as well be the 60s again.
    You might want to go back and read the South Florida Deer research paper again. Here is what it states for deer density for the areas studied..."Using this new method, the estimated average adult deer density was 9.1 deer per square mile for North Addition Lands, 13.8 deer per square mile for Bear Island, and 16.6 deer per square mile for Florida Panther National Wildlife Refuge. These estimates are considerably higher than those derived from aerial surveys. Aerial survey estimates are known to be biased low, due to the difficulty of seeing deer through the thick canopy in portions of the survey area. The new method provides more accurate deer density estimates across all habitat types."       
  • Florida BullfrogFlorida Bullfrog Posts: 3,434 Captain
    edited September 28 #84
    I don’t consider North Florida part of Florida lol.  That’s more of Georgia especially when it comes to habitat and deer growing capacity.  I don’t think deer will be eradicated from Florida but a collapse is happening.  Already collapsed in the south region, panthers have a big part of that but deer were going down before the panther.  Central Florida is probably next.   I bet most of central Florida only has 10 deer per square mile or less.  A few years that will be five.  Might as well be the 60s again.
     North Florida isn’t Georgia. Southeast Georgia is Florida with a fake line drawn through it. The sand of North Florida is of terrible quality. Try growing something in it. Its the west Panhandle that had better soil. 

    If Florida is defined by its woods and wildlife and not its urban sprawl, north Florida is the real Florida. Everything Ocala and southward is fake Yankee Florida. 
  • needtohuntmoreneedtohuntmore MelbournePosts: 368 Deckhand
    edited September 28 #85
    Those numbers are fudged to save the cats.  If those numbers are right Florida has over 1 million deer which is not true because they also estimate the state population at 500k.  The fact they need to lie in a research doc is proof all is not well.

    If your lucky enough to hunt NNN they will tell you the deer density is 18 per square mile.  No way the Panther refuge has as many deer as NNN.
  • wayviswayvis FloridaPosts: 159 Deckhand
    Those numbers are fudged to save the cats.  If those numbers are right Florida has over 1 million deer which is not true because they also estimate the state population at 500k.  The fact they need to lie in a research doc is proof all is not well.

    If your lucky enough to hunt NNN they will tell you the deer density is 18 per square mile.  No way the Panther refuge has as many deer as NNN.
    You referenced this paper to support the fact that south fl has no deer. Now you tell me its not worth the paper it written on. No a very good debate. Did FWC show you any research on NNN to back up the 18 peer square mile?  
  • wayviswayvis FloridaPosts: 159 Deckhand
    wayvis said:
    Well they certainly aren’t allowing more deer to be harvested and they are in a major data gathering period to gauge deer population.  Usually that means issues.  I have been hunting Central Florida for a really long time and let me tell you other than some private land and a handfull of WMAs the deer are gone.  So are the quail.  So are the ducks.  It’s the same story habitat loss and over hunting.
    There’s more deer in north central and north Florida now than there’s ever been in my lifetime gauging by what I see in the woods. 
    So does this mean that the new deer regs are working?
    Nope. The deer numbers and quality has been increasing since the early 2000s. Mostly due to large tracks of timber company land becoming unavailable for hunting since the real estate boom of the 2000s. Large tracks have went several years with little to no hunting. 

    I’ve seen no visible changes from the stand since APRs went in to place. I don’t expect to see any from the bag limits either. Few in north Florida are following them. 
    I didn't think you would attribute this to any management that has been put in place by FWC. I guess we will never know if folks don't follow the rules. 
  • Florida BullfrogFlorida Bullfrog Posts: 3,434 Captain
    edited September 28 #88
    wayvis said:
    wayvis said:
    Well they certainly aren’t allowing more deer to be harvested and they are in a major data gathering period to gauge deer population.  Usually that means issues.  I have been hunting Central Florida for a really long time and let me tell you other than some private land and a handfull of WMAs the deer are gone.  So are the quail.  So are the ducks.  It’s the same story habitat loss and over hunting.
    There’s more deer in north central and north Florida now than there’s ever been in my lifetime gauging by what I see in the woods. 
    So does this mean that the new deer regs are working?
    Nope. The deer numbers and quality has been increasing since the early 2000s. Mostly due to large tracks of timber company land becoming unavailable for hunting since the real estate boom of the 2000s. Large tracks have went several years with little to no hunting. 

    I’ve seen no visible changes from the stand since APRs went in to place. I don’t expect to see any from the bag limits either. Few in north Florida are following them. 
    I didn't think you would attribute this to any management that has been put in place by FWC. I guess we will never know if folks don't follow the rules. 
    How could I attribute it management by the FWC when the big change happened in the early 2000s before any regulations changed? 

    I think bag limits and APRs would make a big difference if the vast majority of people who actually harvest deer followed them. But where the majority of the take is governed by an extreme minority, you'll only succeed in changing how things look if you successfully govern that very tiny minority. 

    I don't think the north central and north deer herd is hurting in terms of numbers. Its hurting in terms of buck to doe ratio and the problems that come with it being far out of balance. I just don't think the herd going to change from what it already is (doe heavy with a dearth of sightable mature bucks)  unless poaching is brought to heel. And it may be an impossible task, I don't know. But that's what shapes the way the herd is now. 

    I do agree that if its not possible to control poaching, habitat and predator control is the only thing that will change the herd. That, and a few years of aggressive doe harvest with almost no buck harvest. 5 years should make all the difference in the world. That's not a political reality. The biologists wouldn't agree to aggressive doe harvesting and virtually no hunters would agree to a buck moratorium. But on paper, that's what would make the quality of bucks sighted from the stand jump dramatically if poaching can't be curtailed. Then once that near 50:50 ratio gets reset, the biologists can have their "save the does" fantasy, horn hunters can have their "show me the biguns" fantasy, and the meat hunters can have their "make anything legal walk by me" fantasies, all in one. 

    Which is all a fantasy, because no one will give up their sacred cows. Old men and biologists worship the doe. Horn hunters worship the chance to shoot 1 big'un a year. Meat hunters worship whatever they got left and don't want to give up more lest even that be regulated away from them. 

  • WildManWildMan Posts: 95 Deckhand

    I don't think the north central and north deer herd is hurting in terms of numbers. Its hurting in terms of buck to doe ratio and the problems that come with it being far out of balance. I just don't think the herd going to change from what it already is (doe heavy with a dearth of sightable mature bucks)  unless poaching is brought to heel. 

    That, and a few years of aggressive doe harvest with almost no buck harvest. 5 years should make all the difference in the world. That's not a political reality. The biologists wouldn't agree to aggressive doe harvesting and virtually no hunters would agree to a buck moratorium. But on paper, that's what would make the quality of bucks sighted from the stand jump dramatically if poaching can't be curtailed. 


    So you are basically saying there are too many deer in N FL and the population needs to be reduced?  That is basically what 5 years of aggressive doe harvest will do.  Where I hunt in N FL, the population is well below capacity and needs to be increased, and therefore I wouldn't support aggressive doe harvest for that reason, but I will admit there are portions of N FL (closer to the FL/GA border where productivity is higher) that could sustain higher doe harvest to stabilize populations.  As said before, the sex ratio can be modified in two ways, the other way is by increasing the number of bucks, which is what your buck harvest moratorium would do.
  • needtohuntmoreneedtohuntmore MelbournePosts: 368 Deckhand
    The big take away from the south florida deer program for me was the fact that they basically admitted that hunters are getting the short end.  If the cat sanctuary has just about as many deer as NNN imagine the rules coming down the pike.  
  • WildManWildMan Posts: 95 Deckhand
    I'm not totally familiar with the results of the S FL or NNN popln survey numbers.  All I will say, is that you need to be cautious of how you interpret these survey numbers as they are merely estimates and not absolute numbers. You should also be looking at the standard errors / confidence intervals to help gauge the statistical accuracy of the data.  In my opinion, the more important thing to look at would be the trend over time, assuming the survey methods and environmental factors are similar between years.
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