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When does the 2019-2020 Deer Harvest Report come out?

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  • Florida BullfrogFlorida Bullfrog Posts: 3,463 Captain
    Big Mak said:
    I just glossed over this quickly this morning and all I can say is that I'm glad you all unanimously agree with me that lawful hunters will comply with reporting requirements, while the less lawful will likely not. This, in turn, furnishes incomplete data which could render  additional burdens, and smaller bag limits (something I too believe is a ultimate goal of FWC) on the lawful hunters.

    "What's that? Only 5 deer taken by 50 hunters on two 3 day hunts? I guess we need to increase antler requirements, shut down doe harvests, and allow one 2 day hunt, for 15 hunters!" Add in the general public distaste for hunting and the ramifications for supporting hunting when you're in the political arena, you get a recipe for reductions. That's how it works. You'll simply continue getting less and less as time goes on, until you sell your gear and quit. Watch and see. The history is there to illustrate it if you look with a open mind. If you have been around long enough, you won't need to look past your own first hand experience.

    And, yes, I get it, more people wanting more of the resource, but if further reductions through additional red tape are the ultimate goals, let it be plainly known, and stop telling me there is a concern over dwindling license sales, and fewer youngsters taking up hunting in the 21st century.  Don't try blowing hot exhaust gasses up everyone's donkey and tell them it's a lavender incense stick. 

    Oh, and, forget the science based decision making arguments. Just more BS. Just ask the bear hunters, fox hunters, the Big Cypress hunters/recreational guys, and the deer dog hunters.

    RRR - Restrict, Reduce, and Remove... That's what RRR really stands for.




    If the end goal is reduced harvest numbers so there’s more deer to feed predators, skewing results to reflect lower numbers isn’t the way to accomplish that goal. 

    Take 50 harvested deer in a several square mile area. 35 were harvested by poachers. 15 by legal hunters. 

    If the FWC lowers the bag limit based on the 15 reported deer, I don’t think that saves the legally harvested deer. It just means the poachers will have access to more deer and likely take 40-45 next year instead of 35. Poachers are only limited by what’s available to them. They generally don’t have an internal bag limit they follow where they say “I have enough, I’ll leave some for the other guys.” 

    If the FWC is sneaky enough to be planning this out, then they should also actually understand that poachers are dominating the take and that they won’t increase deer numbers until they reign in the poachers. 

    So the possibilities as I see it are:

    1. There’s no conspiracy, just a policy poorly implemented with unintended consequences.

    or

    2. The conspiracy is about something other than reducing the deer take for the sake of panthers. 
  • Big MakBig Mak Posts: 3,532 Captain
    OGBOHICA said:
    What would Chuck say
    There's no doubt he would disagree, even with the thundering facts raining the hail of truth down on his head, while he was sitting on his couch because his hunting opportunities were non existent. Especially, if disagreement curried favor to a specific segment in the political hierarchy.
  • OGBOHICAOGBOHICA floridaPosts: 298 Deckhand
    I think Bullfrogs hatred towards poachers is OK, but his numbers even if they are make believe should be reconsidered because hes not correct in the slightest. Or maybe his lil honey hole gets hit hard but cmon man over 100% are poached pleeeeeezzze
  • Florida BullfrogFlorida Bullfrog Posts: 3,463 Captain
    OGBOHICA said:
    I think Bullfrogs hatred towards poachers is OK, but his numbers even if they are make believe should be reconsidered because hes not correct in the slightest. Or maybe his lil honey hole gets hit hard but cmon man over 100% are poached pleeeeeezzze.  

    I’ll grant that outside of north Florida, maybe poaching is only worth a deer here and there. But hell, most of the deer and quality hunting are in north Florida to begin with. It seems like south Florida dominates the hunting politics as much as is dominates Florida’s policies in all other ways. But the south Florida experience really isn’t the overall Florida experience. South Florida does not equal Florida, and what you may know from experience about south Florida doesn’t mean you know diddly about north Florida.  

    Those of us born and raised in north Florida know, poaching is king here. Poaching is where and how most of the deer are taken. I know good and well that on my closest WMA, the FWC’s internal numbers are that the poaching take is double the legal take. For every one deer legally killed in this WMA, at least two are poached. 

    How many poachers does it take to effect the deer herd in any one area? The proficient poachers take 15-20 deer a year at least. If only 5 proficient poachers work a try county area (pretending there’s only five such poachers across three small rural counties, and excluding the bubbas who grab the low hanging fruit and firehunt a buck or two off the highway), are 5 guys taking up to 100 deer between them having an effect?

    Now realistically, do you think there’s only 5 or so such poachers across 3 counties? Or would the truth be, you don’t know north Florida well enough to know?

    Now another point I’ll grant is, there’s always been such poachers and that kind of harvesting happening in north Florida. The large deer numbers we have can withstand that sort of onslaught. We still have lots of deer and plenty of big bucks. My point isn’t that poaching in north Florida is ruining the hunting here. Its no more ruined today than it was 60 years ago when every homestead had men out hunting year-round. 

    My point is that its silly to think that reigning in the legal hunters will have a dramatic effect on herd size or buck maturity. The take of legal hunters is negligible. Nothing will change on the north Florida herd in any given locality from status quo unless the dominant predator, which is the north Florida poacher, is brought under control. 
  • OGBOHICAOGBOHICA floridaPosts: 298 Deckhand
    Nothing was broken, nothing needed fixin.... what we really need is more habitat and better habitat management


    If you really believe this why in the world would you push for more regulations? My point is that its silly to think that reigning in the legal hunters will have a dramatic effect on herd size or buck maturity.



  • OGBOHICAOGBOHICA floridaPosts: 298 Deckhand
    And, always remember it was FWC who wanted to make meat processors liable for un tagged deer.

    This was never about managing deer, it was managing the hunter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • Florida BullfrogFlorida Bullfrog Posts: 3,463 Captain
    OGBOHICA said:
    Nothing was broken, nothing needed fixin.... what we really need is more habitat and better habitat management


    If you really believe this why in the world would you push for more regulations? My point is that its silly to think that reigning in the legal hunters will have a dramatic effect on herd size or buck maturity.



    My push has been for making the rules enforceable and to not be based on the honor system. Hard tags, so that anyone caught with a tag-less deer away from the point of recovery can prosecuted. It will help keep the honest man honest and give the FWC a means to prosecute a poacher independent of catching them in the act of harvest. 

    I’m on the record in several threads stating that if the bag limit can’t be enforced then its only giving more deer to the poachers and better to not have one at all in that circumstance. 
  • needtohuntmoreneedtohuntmore MelbournePosts: 371 Deckhand
    I agree, hard tags are the only way to keep people honest.  
  • OGBOHICAOGBOHICA floridaPosts: 298 Deckhand
    Esp the guy who goes out of town and forgets to pack them...or looses them, or whose child accidentally snapped them together, or FWC was late sending them out, blah blah blah

    You restrictionist are something else
  • Florida BullfrogFlorida Bullfrog Posts: 3,463 Captain
    OGBOHICA said:
    Esp the guy who goes out of town and forgets to pack them...or looses them, or whose child accidentally snapped them together, or FWC was late sending them out, blah blah blah

    You restrictionist are something else
    How's that any different than the guy who forgets to renew his hunting license, or to bring his DL with him for the drive?

    Or the guy who forgets his GATOR tags and still tries to go gator hunting? Gator hunting disproves those specific concerns. What's good for the gator hunter is good for the deer hunter. 

  • H20dadH20dad Posts: 2,161 Captain
    Bring on the plastic tags.....
  • JonsredfishinJonsredfishin Posts: 2,189 Captain
    H20dad said:
    Bring on the plastic tags.....

    And hairdryers lol. 
    One president put a man on the moon.
    Another president put a man in the Lady's bathroom.
  • OGBOHICAOGBOHICA floridaPosts: 298 Deckhand
    Tell me why states who had hard tags now dont?
  • WildManWildMan Posts: 98 Deckhand
    OGBOHICA said:
    Tell me why states who had hard tags now dont?
    Cost is the primary reason (for the tags themselves, postage, administration, etc.).  They also reduce the ability for spontaneous hunting as you can no longer just buy a license/permits via internet/phone and go hunting immediately, instead you now have to wait to receive the hard tags before you can go.  Additionally, lifetime license holders, multi-year license holders, exempt hunters, etc. add complications for tag distribution.

    A true poacher is going to poach regardless.  An honest hunter will do whatever they can to comply regardless.  These rules basically only effect those that are in the "grey" area who are willing to break the rules if they believe they have a good chance to not get caught.  While hard tags would likely allow for more enforcement of bag limits, they aren't fool proof (e.g., can claim you lost tags to get more, etc.).
  • swampdogswampdog Central FloridaPosts: 1,376 Officer
    In our lives today most everything is moving to electronic payment, registration, and record keeping. Electronic tag systems and harvest reporting is part of our world today. A poacher can transport game and keep a hard tag in their pocket just like a doe tag in a WMA. If they get stopped, they’ll play “oops” I forgot to attach or call/report on-line sir.  These infractions are usually just minor hand slaps (I think). The more blatant violations as night hunting or trespassing, are easier to make and carry more weight in the court (I think). Hunters not wanting to electronically report are just hurting the time honored tradition of hunting. Poachers are not on our team and yet the crime is inappropriately categorized as “illegally hunting”. The media and everyone needs to remove hunting from the description of the violation. Bfrog and BMac make good points (as usual) and prove the poaching and direction of hunting in our state are very troubling. 
  • OGBOHICAOGBOHICA floridaPosts: 298 Deckhand
    The Elephant in the room is the peepoor management of our woods, as well as the inability to access new lands. Same goes for our wetlands
  • Big MakBig Mak Posts: 3,532 Captain
    edited August 4 #48
    I gotta tell ya, I don't really think fwc cares as much about poaching as some of us believe. At least not for the reasons we think. I think, at this point in history, they are more concerned about funding and public image than anything else. This is an opinion, of course, and I could be wrong, but i highly doubt it. ;)

    They will never stop poaching without hard, boots on the ground, police work and they simply do not have the resources to effectively accomplish this. It's just easier to weave a catch all blanket that could potentially ensnare the the guy who thought he could get away with it as he's casually cruising through a usually unmanned check station, and say, "we've implemented this, to stop that." At this point in time, to believe anything else will effectively happen with a reporting or tagging process is kinda far fetched. As bullfrog has alluded, the serious poachers, who are taking most of the deer, are too good to be nabbed; especially without boots on the ground.

    Again, all this does is further burden the honest guy who plays by the rules to begin with. Whether or not the honest guys continue participating once their tolerance threshold is broken is up for debate, but I can tell you, plenty honest, old timers became unintentional outlaws or gave up on hunting altogether because of added layers of legislation.

    You simply cannot make more rules to enforce the rules already made. That's what we have here, and the biggest problem is that it never ends. There's always going to be some discontent who thinks because he's not seeing and killing something every few sits is getting shafted because of a disadvantage that needs "addressing". A unclosed tag in a deers leg may make bullfrogs prosecution easier, but that's only going to happen if there's a lawman available to catch em. (And spare me the argument that Johnny Law really is on patrol, in the field in adequate numbers to carry out the mission. That simply is no longer true, and hasn't been for 20 years.) 

    The bottom line is, with the available resources, it's easier, more productive, and more profitable to sit in a inlet or at a boat ramp busting some poor slob for a short mangrove or extra red snapper, than it is to patrol the woods looking for a guy dragging a untagged deer under a fence.

    Now, what about those harvest reports? Anyone see 'em? I want to know which WMA I need to be hunting this season.


  • OGBOHICAOGBOHICA floridaPosts: 298 Deckhand
    I think woods n water will be posting them soon!
  • meateatermeateater south flaPosts: 589 Officer
    if only the cougars had bag limits the deer herd would improve down south.  plastic tags, paper tags, apps, burns,food plots,antler restrictions, no doe harvest,limited quotas           unless the hogs magically return to big cypress,the glades wmas,dinner island,ok slough,and several others the deer herd will continue to suffer     all the while fwc and others will be scratching there heads wondering what else thet can restrict.    poaching is not the problem in the south zone.
  • OGBOHICAOGBOHICA floridaPosts: 298 Deckhand
    this guy definitely understands.. BOHICA
  • cracker4112cracker4112 Posts: 853 Officer
    We have a poaching/trespassing problem on our place in Manatee county  I've called the FWC three times in the last month and I'm still waiting for a call from an officer. One of the occasions I had the trespassers blocked from exiting the property. Still no response and I'm not interested in doing the arresting myself.  I have a contact at the sheriff's office now that seems like they want to help us stop the problem, so we will see.  I just know that the FWC doesn't.
  • Sixth GenerationSixth Generation Posts: 496 Deckhand
    Sounds like you need to sink a few 2x4's with 12 penny nails hammered through every 4"...  Sink 3 of them just under the surface of the sand a foot or so apart, and that will at least slow the poachers down when they drive across the 2x4's.  
  • Reel TealReel Teal Posts: 3,962 Captain
    Screw game rules. If someone is tresspassing, especially with a gun, I'm calling the sherriff. Easiest way to deal with a poacher is to make him deal with real crimes, not wildlife violations.
  • MissedMissed O-townPosts: 252 Deckhand
    This is one of the better threads on here in a while.  Some great comments.
  • Big MakBig Mak Posts: 3,532 Captain
    Cracker, you need to post these every 100 ft along your property.


  • cracker4112cracker4112 Posts: 853 Officer
    I like it.  How about this one?
    Amazoncom Prayer is The Best Way to Meet The Lord Trespassing is

  • cracker4112cracker4112 Posts: 853 Officer
    But seriously, is it too much to expect a call to *FWC to result in at least a call back?  They don't even pretend to care...
  • zimmy4209zimmy4209 Ocala FloridaPosts: 1,167 Officer
    But seriously, is it too much to expect a call to *FWC to result in at least a call back?  They don't even pretend to care...

    I'm not sure about how fwc normally would handle your situation prechinavirus but yes you would think its there duty if nothing else to give you a courtesy call each and every time you called even if they had no desire to give you a face to face conversation. Seems like your in a no win situation on your end until it gets ugly and nobody wants that outcome but scumbags keep stepping on your toes it just might come to that unfortunately. Hope it works out for you in long run. 
  • Florida BullfrogFlorida Bullfrog Posts: 3,463 Captain
    So, do we still not have a harvest report on the eve of the beginning of the 2020 season for much of the state?
  • OGBOHICAOGBOHICA floridaPosts: 298 Deckhand
    theyre too busy coming up with more regulations to have meetings over..stakeholder input that is
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