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What do yall think about the shooting in Brunswick GA?

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  • ferris1248ferris1248 Posts: 7,272 Moderator
    Regarding this case...

    BRUNSWICK — 

    Glynn County Commissioner Peter Murphy on Friday said that he had determined that District Attorney Jackie Johnson’s office refused to allow Glynn police to make arrests immediately after the Feb. 23 shooting death of Ahmaud Abery.

    Travis McMichael, 34, and his father Greg McMichael, 64, were arrested Thursday, more than two months after the fatal shooting.

    Murphy, who said he spoke directly to Glynn County police about the incident, said officers at the scene concluded they had probable cause to make arrests and contacted Johnson’s office to inform the prosecutor of their decision. 

    “They spoke to an assistant who relayed their request to Jackie Johnson,” Murphy told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution. “They were told not to make the arrest.”

    https://www.ajc.com/news/local/watch-gbi-updates-following-arrests-ahmaud-arbery-shooting/1aJbZe2uL9HrndjyWYjB2L/

    "What fools can not control, they will attempt to destroy."

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    "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole of the law. The rest is commentary."

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  • L8RBRAL8RBRA St. LouisPosts: 539 Officer
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ajc.com/news/local/brunswick-attorney-released-the-video-arbery-shooting/JkpbvTuJt9wfl3tkcLTTvO/amp.html

    https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/6916-george-barnhill-letter-to-glyn/b52fa09cdc974b970b79/optimized/full.pdf

    There needs to be more info available, without rage or passion, for a proper decision. There are allusions to the victim having a record and to being on film doing a burglary and fleeing from said burglary when this happened. That doesn’t mean said allusions are accurate or that the killing was justified. But I do think there’s more to the story. False narratives that gloss over victim imperfections are a pet peeve of mine. Maybe he was just out jogging. Or maybe he was running from a crime scene. He still didn’t deserve death if he got caught in a burglary that he fled from without being a threat to anyone. But lying about facts that might tarnish him will only hurt the case later. 

    My gut is that on the light end, its a kind of manslaughter. Maybe not on a legal level but on a moral level its foolish to try to hold a non-violent suspect at gunpoint. If deadly force isn’t already justified then don’t point your gun at someone. I can’t blame even a burglar for fighting back a long ways from where he got ran off from when there is a shotgun in his face. I’d try to grab any shotgun put in my face if there’s a chance I may get shot anyhow. 

    But if this is indeed a manslaughter born of a burglary gone wrong and overzealous crime victims, and the State, fueled by media outrage, tries to make it a willful first degree murder/lynching of a black man for simply jogging in a white neighborhood, then the jury may walk them like they did Zimmerman. Any lie in the State’s case, even if incidental, taints the whole case. 

    Momma, her attorney, and the social justice lynch mob needs to mostly shut up about the jogging bit until its known for sure the victim wasn’t involved in a crime. The more they talk it up about him jogging and if it comes out that wasn’t so, the more of a mess it makes. The hypocrisy of a protesting a lynching by lynching the lynchers, is staggering. Cool heads need to prevail when deciding what to do. 

    We need to know why someone was following behind the victim filming him run. 
    Nailed it! I am so done with hearing what the media puts out for review by the people. It is all created to stir the pot more than it should be to get readers. Its a sad day we live in yall. 
  • Florida BullfrogFlorida Bullfrog Posts: 3,098 Captain
    Jackie Johnson didn’t make the final call. It went to another DA’s office, George Barnhill, and that DA felt like there wasn’t enough to charge on. But then he recused himself at the victim’s mother’s request. Which was proper because one of the suspects apparently worked within that DA’s office at one point. Barnhill is the one that wrote the memo I posted. 

    The memo makes mention of the victim’s criminal and mental health history as “explaining” why the victim attacked the shooter. No elaboration was made and the media isn’t reporting much on the victim’s background. 

    If it turns out the victim really didn’t have the criminal and mental health history DA Barnhill implies, then that might reveal bias on his part. If the victim does have a major history the media isn’t reporting on, it would reveal the media bias. Either way I think that line in the DA’s memo is significant for rooting out where bias may lay. 
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 31,118 AG
    It is manslaughter and they should get 25 to life 

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  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 5,374 Admiral
    I agree, manslaughter is the correct charge.  If they go after a murder charge these morons are going to walk.  


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  • ferris1248ferris1248 Posts: 7,272 Moderator

    Georgia Stand Your Ground Law...


    O.C.G.A. 16-3-21 states that: (a) A person is justified in threatening or using force against another when and to the extent that he or she reasonably believes that such threat or force is necessary to defend himself or herself or a third person against such other´s imminent use of unlawful force; however, except as provided in Code Section 16-3-23, a person is justified in using force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily injury to himself or herself or a third person or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony. (b) A person is not justified in using force under the circumstances specified in subsection (a) of this Code section if he: (1) Initially provokes the use of force against himself with the intent to use such force as an excuse to inflict bodily harm upon the assailant; 

    "What fools can not control, they will attempt to destroy."

    RJG

    "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole of the law. The rest is commentary."

    Rabbi Hillel (c20 BCE)

  • mplspugmplspug Palmetto FloridaPosts: 11,530 AG

    The second link I posted is a memo from the original DA that lays out why he thinks charges would be improper. His reasoning is that he perceives the video to show a lawful attempt at citizen’s arrest, that the victim then resisted with violence, and justified the shooter using deadly force in self-defense. I think the arrest after the public release video is a response to appease the public (which is always an unjust reason to arrest someone akin to lynching them). 

    This was the first thing I saw on Google, so unverified

    Georgia's citizen's arrest law requires that the offender must have committed a crime in the presence of another person, or that person must have "immediate knowledge" of a crime that has taken place by the perpetrator.

    Citizen arrest laws seem unneeded and make people brazen.  If someone tried to make a citizen arrest on any of us are you going to say "OK", turn around and place your hands on your head.  Had this kid stopped and waited for police at gun point and he was found with stolen goods, you think citizen arrest laws are going to matter?

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  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 16,987 AG
  • 2amigo2amigo Posts: 5,596 Admiral

    Pretty sure this is a case where you actually can judge a book by its cover.........
  • conchydongconchydong Pompano BeachPosts: 6,412 Admiral
    From all indications it was a bad shooting and the shooters should probably end up in jail. I think the DA should also be investigated kind of smells like Chicago.

    “Everyone behaves badly--given the chance.”
    ― Ernest Hemingway

  • dragon baitdragon bait Posts: 8,649 Admiral
    As well as the person filming the snuff film, unless you think he was just randomly filming a jogger
  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 5,374 Admiral
    edited May 8 #43
    As well as the person filming the snuff film, unless you think he was just randomly filming a jogger
    Maybe he saw the truck with armed dip***** and started filming?  Look, I wouldn't be shocked if the guy filming was in on it, but I also think we shouldn't assume he was.


    “When you're good at something, you'll tell everyone. When you're great at something, they'll tell you.”

    -Walter Payton
  • dragon baitdragon bait Posts: 8,649 Admiral
    He lived a few doors down and is also under investigation 
    As of the latest report
  • mplspugmplspug Palmetto FloridaPosts: 11,530 AG
    2amigo said:

    Pretty sure this is a case where you actually can judge a book by its cover.........
    Lol that's what I said when I saw them in an article.

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  • mplspugmplspug Palmetto FloridaPosts: 11,530 AG
    I thought there was another person trying to blockade him. Was that the guy filming?

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  • 2amigo2amigo Posts: 5,596 Admiral
    edited May 8 #48
    spangler said:
    mplspug said:
    2amigo said:

    Pretty sure this is a case where you actually can judge a book by its cover.........
    Lol that's what I said when I saw them in an article.
    Gonna go ahead and say that, judging those two by their appearance, is no worse than being a racist.  Just sayin..

     Naw. But that son is half ginger......
  • mplspugmplspug Palmetto FloridaPosts: 11,530 AG
    To be fair it was their actions when I first judged.  That photo is just icing on the cake 

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  • spanglerspangler daBurgPosts: 2,709 Captain
    2amigo said:
    spangler said:
    mplspug said:
    2amigo said:

    Pretty sure this is a case where you actually can judge a book by its cover.........
    Lol that's what I said when I saw them in an article.
    Gonna go ahead and say that, judging those two by their appearance, is no worse than being a racist.  Just sayin..

     Naw. But that son is half ginger......
    ok, that was kinda funny :)

    There will never be a really free and enlightened state until the state comes to recognize the individual as a higher and independent power, from which all its own power and authority are derived.
  • supratentorialsupratentorial FLPosts: 447 Deckhand
    As well as the person filming the snuff film, unless you think he was just randomly filming a jogger
    Who goes jogging in untied workboots?
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 31,118 AG
    As well as the person filming the snuff film, unless you think he was just randomly filming a jogger
    Who goes jogging in untied workboots?
    He was wearing Nike sneakers. 

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  • FloridaMetalFabFloridaMetalFab North CubaPosts: 929 Officer
    The prosecutor who recused himself said there was another video of the guy burglarizing a house before the confrontation. Time will tell. If that's the case you're looking at Zimmerman part 2 whether it was right for them to play vigilante or not. 
  • dragon baitdragon bait Posts: 8,649 Admiral
    The prosecutor who recused himself said there was another video of the guy burglarizing a house before the confrontation. Time will tell. If that's the case you're looking at Zimmerman part 2 whether it was right for them to play vigilante or not. 

    The Glynn County Police Department said Thursday that it had no reports involving burglaries or home break-ins in the Satilla Shores neighborhood between Jan. 1 and Feb. 23.

    https://www.statesman.com/news/20200508/ahmaud-arbery-shooting-father-son-arrested-dedication-run-planned-today
  • Florida BullfrogFlorida Bullfrog Posts: 3,098 Captain
    edited May 9 #55
    Looks like they charged “Felony Murder.” Here’s the GA definition:

    “A person also commits the offense of murder when, in the commission of a felony, he causes the death of another human being irrespective of malice.”

    So it removes murderous intent. That’s smart. But its also going to make whether they committed a valid citizen’s arrest under GA law central. If it was a valid citizen’s arrest, then there’s no felony they committed apart from the killing. The victim’s conduct and whether the father/son really had probable cause to suspect him of burglary will now be the center of the case. 
  • Florida BullfrogFlorida Bullfrog Posts: 3,098 Captain
    The prosecutor who recused himself said there was another video of the guy burglarizing a house before the confrontation. Time will tell. If that's the case you're looking at Zimmerman part 2 whether it was right for them to play vigilante or not. 

    The Glynn County Police Department said Thursday that it had no reports involving burglaries or home break-ins in the Satilla Shores neighborhood between Jan. 1 and Feb. 23.

    https://www.statesman.com/news/20200508/ahmaud-arbery-shooting-father-son-arrested-dedication-run-planned-today
    That’s somewhat irrelevant. What’s going to matter is whether there was reason to believe Arbery was committing a burglary on 2/23, the day he was killed. 
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 31,118 AG
    From what I read they thought he was a guy that they claimed had broken into a house earlier. According to 911 calls all he may have done that day was walk through a house under construction. I have done that many times, glad some idiot didn't shoot me for it. The owner of the house under construction claims a guy he could not I.D. stole some fishing stuff previously but he did not report it to police.

    The only crime reported to police was by one of the two charged with murder when they claimed a gun was stolen from his truck on January 1st.

    I don't think it was a citizen arrest myself. That was a BS story made up after the events. I think the guy filming was part of it and had too much guilt afterward and had the lawyer release the video. I bet he turns out to be a witness against the other two once a deal is made. But who really knows. 

    Just from what I have read, their story seems a bit odd, The calls to the cops seems to be from the people involved and the only crime was one to their truck. 

    But who knows

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/07/ahmaud-arbery-killing-man-called-911-report-black-male-running-shooting

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/08/us/ahmaud-arbery-mcmichael-arrests-friday/index.html

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  • spanglerspangler daBurgPosts: 2,709 Captain
    edited May 9 #58
    Trespassing on a construction site is a felony in Florida.  Didn't take Cad as a felon but you never can judge a book by its.. words :D
    There will never be a really free and enlightened state until the state comes to recognize the individual as a higher and independent power, from which all its own power and authority are derived.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 16,987 AG
    edited May 9 #59
    Looks like they charged “Felony Murder.” Here’s the GA definition:

    “A person also commits the offense of murder when, in the commission of a felony, he causes the death of another human being irrespective of malice.”

    So it removes murderous intent. That’s smart. But its also going to make whether they committed a valid citizen’s arrest under GA law central. If it was a valid citizen’s arrest, then there’s no felony they committed apart from the killing. The victim’s conduct and whether the father/son really had probable cause to suspect him of burglary will now be the center of the case. 

     What felony was being committed?

    How is the charge "smart" to remove murderous intent?  Weren't there other "smart" alternative charges?

    I'm not sure I follow you on either point.
  • dragon baitdragon bait Posts: 8,649 Admiral
    edited May 9 #60
    "According to that law, you actually have to be observing the crime or be in the immediate knowledge of the crime," Merritt said. "The only thing they have ever said is ... that Ahmaud stopped by a house that was under construction and he looked through the window. We don't know if that happened or not, but even if that did happen that is not a felony that would invoke the citizen's arrest statute that would make this allowable."
  • FloridaMetalFabFloridaMetalFab North CubaPosts: 929 Officer
    I can't find the article I read earlier on my phone but it said the the older guy in the case investigated the guy who was shot in the past when he was a police officer and he was familiar with him.  That could be used either way by the jury.
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