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What do yall think about the shooting in Brunswick GA?

treemanjohntreemanjohn Posts: 4,411 Captain
Looks like a bad shoot. How will the court system play out? 
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Replies

  • Soda PopinskiSoda Popinski GrovelandPosts: 12,455 AG
    I don't have enough information to form a well educated opinion.   The optics are pretty bad from what i have read.  But this will be argued both ways for the next decade. 
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  • mplspugmplspug Palmetto FloridaPosts: 11,530 AG
    Those 2 should get the death sentence. 

    Captain Todd Approves

  • stc1993stc1993 Albany, GA Carrabelle, FLPosts: 7,179 Admiral
    Looks like they're guilty.  Bad shooting.
  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 5,374 Admiral
    edited May 8 #5
    Those two should be jailed or put down.  I'm not a lawyer so I don't know the strict legal details, but I don't think it should be legal to stop in the middle of the street, pull guns on a person and mandate they stop and talk.  Anybody who pulls over and pulls a gun, I'll assume my life is in danger.  It was a threatening act and something civilians have no right to do, IMHO.  If technically they do have such a right, that law needs to be fixed ASAP.  The general public needs to understand they are not law enforcement.  

    I mean can somebody really claim self defense when they:

    1) Stopped in the middle of the street

    2) Jumped out of the car

    3) Pulled guns on a person who was not an immediate safety threat

    4) Started yelling and screaming

    It appears to me they started this mess, time to pay the piper.


    “When you're good at something, you'll tell everyone. When you're great at something, they'll tell you.”

    -Walter Payton
  • SaltygatorvetSaltygatorvet TallahasseePosts: 5,030 Admiral
    Those guys were obviously not in fear of their lives. Bad shoot
    You should have been here yesterday
  • spanglerspangler daBurgPosts: 2,709 Captain
    So, did the guys hear about a burglary and then go lookin?  One of them is in the bed of the truck w a handgun?
    Either way, def bad shoot.  Hope they get what they deserve.
    There will never be a really free and enlightened state until the state comes to recognize the individual as a higher and independent power, from which all its own power and authority are derived.
  • 1outlaw1outlaw Naples FLPosts: 1,288 Officer
    edited May 8 #8
    That was a bad shoot. My understanding is they thought he was a suspect in a burglary that was running AWAY! In no way does that give them justification to use lethal force!


    Jason :USA
  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 5,374 Admiral
    1outlaw said:
    That was a bad shoot. My understanding is they thought he was a suspect in a burglary that was running AWAY! In no way does that give them justification to use lethal force!


    According to the report I read (no idea if it is accurate), but that specific neighbourhood had zero reported burglaries from Jan 1st till the time of the shooting.  


    “When you're good at something, you'll tell everyone. When you're great at something, they'll tell you.”

    -Walter Payton
  • mplspugmplspug Palmetto FloridaPosts: 11,530 AG
    If he was running from a crime he wouldn't run right at the truck.  Those 2 dopes ain't so bright .  I hope they get a good old jail beat down.

    Captain Todd Approves

  • treemanjohntreemanjohn Posts: 4,411 Captain
    mplspug said:
    If he was running from a crime he wouldn't run right at the truck.  Those 2 dopes ain't so bright .  I hope they get a good old jail beat down.

     That's the strangest part of the story. If I were being followed while when I continue running to the car. I watched the video and when the murderers were stopped in the street and the son was out of the truck the jogger was 50+ yd away. Why not just retreat or book it between the houses and leave?

     It was either a full on ambush and the jogger was oblivious, or the jogger wanted a fight
    We’re like the piggy bank that everybody is robbing, and that ends President Trump
  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 5,374 Admiral
    edited May 8 #12
    mplspug said:
    If he was running from a crime he wouldn't run right at the truck.  Those 2 dopes ain't so bright .  I hope they get a good old jail beat down.

     That's the strangest part of the story. If I were being followed while when I continue running to the car. I watched the video and when the murderers were stopped in the street and the son was out of the truck the jogger was 50+ yd away. Why not just retreat or book it between the houses and leave?

     It was either a full on ambush and the jogger was oblivious, or the jogger wanted a fight
    Based on what I read, again not sure if it is true, but the jogger already tried that.  He was jogging and saw the truck with armed civilians, he turned around and jogged in the other direction.  The two guys jumped back in the truck and speed in front of him and stopped.  So maybe the jogger felt trapped?  Who knows.  Other than these two dopes are not cops and shouldn't act as though they are.    


    “When you're good at something, you'll tell everyone. When you're great at something, they'll tell you.”

    -Walter Payton
  • GardawgGardawg Posts: 9,288 Admiral
    I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you.

    This sort of thing hardly ever happens. 

    Round up the usual suspects.
    “Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves.

    Heres Tom with the Weather.”
  • dragon baitdragon bait Posts: 8,649 Admiral
    They were only arrested because of the video that we saw, not because of the video the law seen , 

  • GardawgGardawg Posts: 9,288 Admiral
    edited May 8 #15
    He was murdered two months ago.  No one was arrested until this video surfaced.  I wonder why?

    Ahmaud Arbery died more than two months ago, but video of his death just surfaced last week. In it, he’s seen attempting to run past the vehicle of Gregory McMichael, 64, and his son Travis, 34 ― one of whom shoots Arbery at least twice. The elder McMichael claims he thought Arbery was a burglary suspect. 

    After the video’s release, there was widespread public outrage that authorities hadn’t arrested the McMichaels. Shortly after Marcus Arbery gave the interview to PBS, state authorities arrested the father and son on charges of murder and aggravated assault.

    Marcus Arbery’s attorney Benjamin Crump, who joined him for the interview Thursday, said he’s demanding that the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, which has taken over the probe from local authorities, “look at the case with fresh eyes.”

    “We asked them not to allow anything from the local officials from that southeastern Georgia law enforcement community because they’re too close to Gregory McMichaels, who worked as a former police officer and a detective for the district attorney for over 30 years,” Crump said.

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ahmaud-arbery-father-lynching_n_5eb4932ac5b6a67335401448


    “Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves.

    Heres Tom with the Weather.”
  • supratentorialsupratentorial FLPosts: 447 Deckhand
    The video seems to show the deceased attacking the idiot with the shotgun.  
    The idiot should be charged for his actions.
  • treemanjohntreemanjohn Posts: 4,411 Captain
    They were only arrested because of the video that we saw, not because of the video the law seen , 

    There's the civil rights champion we've been missing for the past 48 hours!

     The reason there were no charges or because of corruption. Our judicial and law enforcement systems are completely busted. It happens on the local level as well as at the highest federal levels. We've seen 2 examples this week
    We’re like the piggy bank that everybody is robbing, and that ends President Trump
  • FloridaMetalFabFloridaMetalFab North CubaPosts: 929 Officer
    Georgia Zimmerman?
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 16,987 AG
    edited May 8 #19
    Of course they didn't arrest them until the video surfaced.

    We're talking about Brunswick, Georgia, after all.

    What did you expect would happen?


  • dragon baitdragon bait Posts: 8,649 Admiral
    QWhite  Right
  • SAENoleSAENole Posts: 10,956 AG
    Definitely a bad shoot.

    Those rednecks will do well in a prison full of Africans.  
    Warning Level 2
  • dragon baitdragon bait Posts: 8,649 Admiral
    The Glynn County Police Department said Thursday that it had no reports involving burglaries or home break-ins in the Satilla Shores neighborhood between Jan. 1 and Feb. 23.

    https://www.statesman.com/news/20200508/ahmaud-arbery-shooting-father-son-arrested-dedication-run-planned-today
  • mindyabinessmindyabiness Posts: 6,074 Admiral
    edited May 8 #24
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ajc.com/news/local/brunswick-attorney-released-the-video-arbery-shooting/JkpbvTuJt9wfl3tkcLTTvO/amp.html

    https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/6916-george-barnhill-letter-to-glyn/b52fa09cdc974b970b79/optimized/full.pdf

    There needs to be more info available, without rage or passion, for a proper decision. There are allusions to the victim having a record and to being on film doing a burglary and fleeing from said burglary when this happened. That doesn’t mean said allusions are accurate or that the killing was justified. But I do think there’s more to the story. False narratives that gloss over victim imperfections are a pet peeve of mine. Maybe he was just out jogging. Or maybe he was running from a crime scene. He still didn’t deserve death if he got caught in a burglary that he fled from without being a threat to anyone. But lying about facts that might tarnish him will only hurt the case later. 

    My gut is that on the light end, its a kind of manslaughter. Maybe not on a legal level but on a moral level its foolish to try to hold a non-violent suspect at gunpoint. If deadly force isn’t already justified then don’t point your gun at someone. I can’t blame even a burglar for fighting back a long ways from where he got ran off from when there is a shotgun in his face. I’d try to grab any shotgun put in my face if there’s a chance I may get shot anyhow. 

    But if this is indeed a manslaughter born of a burglary gone wrong and overzealous crime victims, and the State, fueled by media outrage, tries to make it a willful first degree murder/lynching of a black man for simply jogging in a white neighborhood, then the jury may walk them like they did Zimmerman. Any lie in the State’s case, even if incidental, taints the whole case. 

    Momma, her attorney, and the social justice lynch mob needs to mostly shut up about the jogging bit until its known for sure the victim wasn’t involved in a crime. The more they talk it up about him jogging and if it comes out that wasn’t so, the more of a mess it makes. The hypocrisy of a protesting a lynching by lynching the lynchers, is staggering. Cool heads need to prevail when deciding what to do. 

    We need to know why someone was following behind the victim filming him run. 
    Could it be argued that the victim tried to grab/take the gun, when the camera was errantly filming the truck....  in which case the perpetrator would be defending himself by pulling the trigger?
    Is that how we get from murder to manslaughter?


    Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon... No matter how good you are, the bird is going to crap on the board and strut around like it won anyway.
  • mplspugmplspug Palmetto FloridaPosts: 11,530 AG
    ^^^ That

    Captain Todd Approves

  • mplspugmplspug Palmetto FloridaPosts: 11,530 AG
    I thought I heard the dad was former law enforcement.  That is probably why nothing happened until the video came out. 

    Captain Todd Approves

  • micci_manmicci_man Somewhere in FLPosts: 14,382 AG
    jcbcpa said:
    They murdered that young man. Even if they did think he was a robbery suspect and even if he really was, they should have called the local authorities and reported his sighting. I'm amazed at how stupid people can be. 
    jcbcpa said:
    They murdered that young man. Even if they did think he was a robbery suspect and even if he really was, they should have called the local authorities and reported his sighting. I'm amazed at how stupid people can be. 
    Nuff said!


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    Common Sense can't be bought, taught or gifted, yet it is one of the few things in life that is free, and most refuse to even attempt to possess it. - Miguel Cervantes
  • ferris1248ferris1248 Posts: 7,272 Moderator
    Look up the back story on Jackie Johnson, the local DA. Also look up the murder of Caroline Small.

    This DA has a history of coverups where LEO's are involved. 

    BRUNSWICK – The prosecutors who watched the fatal police shooting video of Caroline Small had more than a century of courtroom experience — from murder cases to child molestation to ****.

    Still, the violence that unfolded on the computer screen shocked them into silence. The video showed eight police bullets piercing the car windshield of the unarmed Georgia mother as she was pinned against a utility pole and surrounded by police cars.

    The consensus in the courthouse conference room was that the two Glynn County police officers who pulled their triggers had committed a crime. One DA called for more investigation. A second said it was manslaughter. Another said it was aggravated assault. Several called it murder.

    What happened instead derailed the case and fundamentally shook their beliefs in the justice system and the rule of law.

    Brunswick District Attorney Jackie Johnson fired one prosecutor for his outspoken determination to prosecute the 2010 shooting, and she excluded the others who best knew the evidence. The case languished for a year before Sgt. Robert C. Sasser and Officer Michael T. Simpson were cleared by a civil grand jury in 2011 amid a series of questionable and irregular legal maneuvers. Sasser and Simpson remain in law enforcement today.

    Now four former prosecutors in Johnson’s office have come forward to tell their story of how the case unraveled. They said they were emboldened to speak out after The Atlanta Journal-Constitution and Channel 2 Action News reported in July that Johnson took extraordinary measures to aid the two officers in their defense.

    The AJC and Channel 2 reported that Johnson gave the officers the case files almost two months before the grand jury met and allowed defense attorneys to cross-examine witnesses in the grand jury room — unprecedented actions in Georgia grand jury procedures.

    The former Brunswick prosecutors say Johnson's actions violated prosecutorial ethics and betrayed her duty to uphold justice. They also say that Johnson had a conflict of interest because she was concerned about damaging her relationship with the Glynn County Police Department and should have disqualified herself from any involvement with the case.

    "What fools can not control, they will attempt to destroy."

    RJG

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  • Florida BullfrogFlorida Bullfrog Posts: 3,098 Captain
    edited May 8 #31
    mplspug said:
    I thought I heard the dad was former law enforcement.  That is probably why nothing happened until the video came out. 
    The second link I posted is a memo from the original DA that lays out why he thinks charges would be improper. His reasoning is that he perceives the video to show a lawful attempt at citizen’s arrest, that the victim then resisted with violence, and justified the shooter using deadly force in self-defense. I think the arrest after the public release video is a response to appease the public (which is always an unjust reason to arrest someone akin to lynching them). 

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ajc.com/news/local/brunswick-attorney-released-the-video-arbery-shooting/JkpbvTuJt9wfl3tkcLTTvO/amp.html

    https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/6916-george-barnhill-letter-to-glyn/b52fa09cdc974b970b79/optimized/full.pdf

    There needs to be more info available, without rage or passion, for a proper decision. There are allusions to the victim having a record and to being on film doing a burglary and fleeing from said burglary when this happened. That doesn’t mean said allusions are accurate or that the killing was justified. But I do think there’s more to the story. False narratives that gloss over victim imperfections are a pet peeve of mine. Maybe he was just out jogging. Or maybe he was running from a crime scene. He still didn’t deserve death if he got caught in a burglary that he fled from without being a threat to anyone. But lying about facts that might tarnish him will only hurt the case later. 

    My gut is that on the light end, its a kind of manslaughter. Maybe not on a legal level but on a moral level its foolish to try to hold a non-violent suspect at gunpoint. If deadly force isn’t already justified then don’t point your gun at someone. I can’t blame even a burglar for fighting back a long ways from where he got ran off from when there is a shotgun in his face. I’d try to grab any shotgun put in my face if there’s a chance I may get shot anyhow. 

    But if this is indeed a manslaughter born of a burglary gone wrong and overzealous crime victims, and the State, fueled by media outrage, tries to make it a willful first degree murder/lynching of a black man for simply jogging in a white neighborhood, then the jury may walk them like they did Zimmerman. Any lie in the State’s case, even if incidental, taints the whole case. 

    Momma, her attorney, and the social justice lynch mob needs to mostly shut up about the jogging bit until its known for sure the victim wasn’t involved in a crime. The more they talk it up about him jogging and if it comes out that wasn’t so, the more of a mess it makes. The hypocrisy of a protesting a lynching by lynching the lynchers, is staggering. Cool heads need to prevail when deciding what to do. 

    We need to know why someone was following behind the victim filming him run. 
    Could it be argued that the victim tried to grab/take the gun, when the camera was errantly filming the truck....  in which case the perpetrator would be defending himself by pulling the trigger?
    Is that how we get from murder to manslaughter?


    Murder requires a murderous intent. In Florida, its a premeditated intent for First Degree murder, and deprived mind for Second Degree murder (which usually means a momentary flash of emotion and a willful act that any reasonable person would understand would result in a death).

    Manslaughter is killing someone without legal justification and lacks a murderous intent. Usually its through culpable negligence. Getting drunk and running someone over. Playing with a loaded gun you think is unloaded. Getting in a schoolyard type fist fight and accidentally punching someone wrong and killing them. Putting yourself in a stupid situation that causes you to do an act that kills someone. Something more than just a tragic accident. 

    Whether its murder will have everything to do with whether they set our to murder someone when they jumped in the truck or alternatively whether passion got the better of the shooter and for a split second he willfully shot the suspect in a fit of rage. 

    Whether its manslaughter depends on whether they negligently put themselves in a stupid situation that amounts to culpable negligence on their part. 

    Then its a matter of GA law as to what a citizen is and isn’t allowed to do on a citizens arrest as to whether they’re culpably negligent or not.  

    That’s why I say it could be manslaughter on a moral level but might technically be permissible on a legal level. Perhaps they didn’t intend to murder anyone when they jumped in that truck, but it was stupid for them to do so and to provoke the situation that needless resulted in a homicide. But maybe GA law lets them do just that. I don’t know. 

    Or maybe they planned the murder a minute in advance of jumping in the truck. But that can’t properly be presumed without evidence. I bet their text messages will be of big importance as the days go by. You never know, one of them might have texted the other “let’s go kill than ‘n’.” Then its a different ballgame. 

    I am leaning towards them doing something stupid without murderous intent that they ought to be held accountable for if GA law doesn’t protect their actions. 

    Its probably a good time to reexamine citizen arrest statutes. It happens more often than you think, and usually its simply a homeowner holding a home invader at gunpoint until police arrive. Situations that seem reasonable because the citizen has been thrust into them in their own home or property. The statutes probably shouldn’t allow for hot pursuit if the suspect isn’t an obvious physical threat to others.   

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