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Maximum Drag is a Tricky Concept

Tampa_SportsmanTampa_Sportsman TampaPosts: 194 Deckhand
Hi everybody,
Thanks for stopping by. My daiwa fuego LT 5000D- CXH has a carbon frame. The specs says it has a maximum drag of 26.5 lb. Come on! The frame is nowhere near strong enough for that kind of drag. I am wondering what the REALISTIC maximum drag of the reel is, or a similar one, like a fuego LT 4000 ?   Thanks

Alan

Replies

  • SaltygatorvetSaltygatorvet TallahasseePosts: 5,808 Admiral
    It’s marketing. You would never put 100lb line on that reel ( set drag to 1/4 line test) in reality you only need a 3-4 lbs of drag 
    You should have been here yesterday
  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 6,395 Admiral
    edited March 31 #3
    Salty nailed it.  Drag set to 1/4 line strength.  So on a 5000 reel, put 20 lb line on, set to 5 lbs (max).  And Salty is yet again correct, 3-4 lbs of drag is quite stout, given a fish doesn't pull straight out.  One should be fighting the fish with the rod more than the reel.    


    “When you're good at something, you'll tell everyone. When you're great at something, they'll tell you.”

    -Walter Payton
  • GettnreddyGettnreddy Posts: 86 Deckhand
    Believe the previous statements. We typically fish tarpon with 40# braid and only 8#s of drag.
  • Tampa_SportsmanTampa_Sportsman TampaPosts: 194 Deckhand
    The problem is fishing around structure. Like grouper near a pile of rocks. Set drag really tight, once a grouper is hooked , horse it in. Not like really horse it in ,but "horse" it away from the structure first. Daiwa also makes reels with Zaion body and shimano has ci4 body reels, but I don't know, maybe nobody knows how strong they really are. Maybe the frame will fail under the pressure of, let's say, 15 lb of drag. Many of them have maximum drags rated more than 25 lb. This is really confusing. Anyway, thank everybody for your thoughts. Have a good day. 
  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 6,395 Admiral
    Certainly being tough on a fish is important around structure.  But 5 to 8 lbs. of drag maybe more than you think.  I have had no issues keeping 30-35 inch snook out of the mangroves with 3-5 lbs. of drag.  At a full 25 lb. drag I suspect your rod would snap or maybe knot failure.  I don't believe your reel is the weak link in the equation.  And again, your rod applies leverage.  A reel doesn't fight a fish, the rod does.    


    “When you're good at something, you'll tell everyone. When you're great at something, they'll tell you.”

    -Walter Payton
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,010 AG
    I agree with Keller.  The drag should be able to handle 26lbs of pull, but the rod is generally the weak link.
  • AlwaysLearningMoreAlwaysLearningMore Posts: 158 Deckhand
    Everyone should experiment with a spring scale and drag settings.  People almost always overestimate the pounds of pull required to overcome their drag settings and are surprised when they see the actual numbers.
  • SaltygatorvetSaltygatorvet TallahasseePosts: 5,808 Admiral
    edited March 31 #9
    The problem is fishing around structure. Like grouper near a pile of rocks. Set drag really tight, once a grouper is hooked , horse it in. Not like really horse it in ,but "horse" it away from the structure first. Daiwa also makes reels with Zaion body and shimano has ci4 body reels, but I don't know, maybe nobody knows how strong they really are. Maybe the frame will fail under the pressure of, let's say, 15 lb of drag. Many of them have maximum drags rated more than 25 lb. This is really confusing. Anyway, thank everybody for your thoughts. Have a good day. 
    You can’t winch out a grouper with a spinner especially a 5000 series( diawa is so weird, on  some reels a 5000 is like a Shimano, on the bg and some others a 5000 is huge). You have to up pull w the rod and reel down. If you put a spinner ( even a locked do bg 6500 which is huge) in a rod holder and crank, the handle will not turn. There is no torque, like on a conventional. Get an appropriate rod ( I like the xx heavy jigging rods for gags). And 10-15 lbs of drag will be more than you need
    You should have been here yesterday
  • Jack HexterJack Hexter New Port RicheyPosts: 5,017 Moderator
    edited March 31 #10
    Here's a test you can do.  Take 5 or 6, 12 oz bottles of water and put them in a plastic grocery bag.  That will weigh 3.75  or 4.5 pounds depending upon how many bottles you choose.  Tie this on your line and lift the rod carefully to see just how much it bends with this amount of weight,  I think you will be surprised.  Careful you don't over-stress the rod and break it.  If you think you can do more, add another bottle or two.  If you want 15 pounds of drag, lift 20, 12 oz bottles of water
  • Tampa_SportsmanTampa_Sportsman TampaPosts: 194 Deckhand
    kellercl said:
    Certainly being tough on a fish is important around structure.  But 5 to 8 lbs. of drag maybe more than you think.  I have had no issues keeping 30-35 inch snook out of the mangroves with 3-5 lbs. of drag.  At a full 25 lb. drag I suspect your rod would snap or maybe knot failure.  I don't believe your reel is the weak link in the equation.  And again, your rod applies leverage.  A reel doesn't fight a fish, the rod does.    
    Thank you for the reply. But how to construe this part " reels doesn't fight the fish, rod does".  I think it is the drag of the reel that wears out a fish. Thanks 
  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 6,395 Admiral
    kellercl said:
    Certainly being tough on a fish is important around structure.  But 5 to 8 lbs. of drag maybe more than you think.  I have had no issues keeping 30-35 inch snook out of the mangroves with 3-5 lbs. of drag.  At a full 25 lb. drag I suspect your rod would snap or maybe knot failure.  I don't believe your reel is the weak link in the equation.  And again, your rod applies leverage.  A reel doesn't fight a fish, the rod does.    
    Thank you for the reply. But how to construe this part " reels doesn't fight the fish, rod does".  I think it is the drag of the reel that wears out a fish. Thanks 
    Drag plays a role, I didn't mean to imply otherwise.  But that bend in your rod does more to wear a fish out than the drag.  Energy cannot be created nor destroyed, law of thermodynamics.  Bending a rod takes energy.  In this case that energy is coming from the fish.  This is the reason rods bend and why one doesn't fight a fish by pointing the rod directly at the fish parallel to the water.  All the drag does is dictate how much the rod bends.  Light drag, less bend.  High drag, more bend.    


    “When you're good at something, you'll tell everyone. When you're great at something, they'll tell you.”

    -Walter Payton
  • demersalangelerdemersalangeler SE FLORIDA Posts: 437 Deckhand
     Personally I fell like there are two main concepts behind drag resistance. One being actual stopping power in poundage. Then second being actual drag capacity. By this I mean a real that has a higher max drag in poundage. Can have more drag washer surface arena, and a higher tolerance to heat. For an example get a 50lb king on set the drag at 2 or 3 lbs. Let it run. It's poor little hart the size or your thumb over heats. Just reel it in.
     The les drag capcity, the les surface area = les dissipation of the heat. Of course spool design, washer material, and number of drag washer packs will have a bearing on this. 

     Most people dont even have a rod that can steadily hang 15lbs. Let alone lift it om a 7 foot lever. However there are some fighting techniques that can overcome this. 
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,010 AG
    Here's a test you can do.  Take 5 or 6, 12 oz bottles of water and put them in a plastic grocery bag.  That will weigh 3.75  or 4.5 pounds depending upon how many bottles you choose.  Tie this on your line and lift the rod carefully to see just how much it bends with this amount of weight,  I think you will be surprised.  Careful you don't over-stress the rod and break it.  If you think you can do more, add another bottle or two.  If you want 15 pounds of drag, lift 20, 12 oz bottles of water
    That's close to what we use.

    I use a gallon jug of milk, filled with water.

    It's 8lbs (8.3 actually), and is just about perfect for tarpon in most open water situations.
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