Home General Hunting

We're 10 years into Deer Management Plan

2

Replies

  • Florida BullfrogFlorida Bullfrog Posts: 3,166 Captain
    ANUMBER1 said:
    why didn't the state require private lands to keep and submit logs from antlerless tags issued each year?

    seems to me that would be a lot of data right there????

    our club receives 35 tags each year (since 2005) and there is no reporting requirement from FWC on harvest data.
    There “is” no reporting requirement? Or there ”was” no reporting requirement? Because now you do have to report your harvests and keep logs with antlerless tags. 
  • N. CookN. Cook Posts: 2,165 Captain
    The statement was that Private Land Hunters drove the DMTAG process.  That is not correct. I was only a Public Land hunter for most of the time.....not until three years ago hunting with my oldest son on a lease.  The meetings were open to diverse ideas and I always felt mine were listened to by the FWC Staff....Certainly did not get all the things I want, but a lot of very positive things happened directly because of the DMTAG....not all of them "deer" related, as I have always pushed to get the WMAs more OPEN TO SPONTANEOUS HUNTING....without quotas...I was able to get hog hunting without quotas during many more days on the WMAs...especially during deer and small game days.  The MODEL I use for public land is the KISSIMMEE PUBLIC USE AREA.....I would like to see most WMAs run on those rules...What has to be understood is the large private land tracts were usually managed more conservatively than the WMAs when DMTAG began ten years ago...ARs were the norm on private land....and you certainly were not allowed to kill two deer a day every day of season...etc, etc...I can understand why some would say the "private land people drove the new rule making"....but, that is not what happened...The FWC simply agreed that rules similar to those often found on private lands were also suitable for Public Land in some ways...To increase the health of the herd and increase hunter satisfaction for the majority of hunters using public lands.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 11,429 AG
    ANUMBER1 said:
    why didn't the state require private lands to keep and submit logs from antlerless tags issued each year?

    seems to me that would be a lot of data right there????

    our club receives 35 tags each year (since 2005) and there is no reporting requirement from FWC on harvest data.
    There “is” no reporting requirement? Or there ”was” no reporting requirement? Because now you do have to report your harvests and keep logs with antlerless tags. 
    there was no reporting requirement last 30 years with antlerless tags
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 11,429 AG
    N. Cook said:
    The statement was that Private Land Hunters drove the DMTAG process.  That is not correct. I was only a Public Land hunter for most of the time.....not until three years ago hunting with my oldest son on a lease.  The meetings were open to diverse ideas and I always felt mine were listened to by the FWC Staff....Certainly did not get all the things I want, but a lot of very positive things happened directly because of the DMTAG....not all of them "deer" related, as I have always pushed to get the WMAs more OPEN TO SPONTANEOUS HUNTING....without quotas...I was able to get hog hunting without quotas during many more days on the WMAs...especially during deer and small game days.  The MODEL I use for public land is the KISSIMMEE PUBLIC USE AREA.....I would like to see most WMAs run on those rules...What has to be understood is the large private land tracts were usually managed more conservatively than the WMAs when DMTAG began ten years ago...ARs were the norm on private land....and you certainly were not allowed to kill two deer a day every day of season...etc, etc...I can understand why some would say the "private land people drove the new rule making"....but, that is not what happened...The FWC simply agreed that rules similar to those often found on private lands were also suitable for Public Land in some ways...To increase the health of the herd and increase hunter satisfaction for the majority of hunters using public lands.
    N. Cook said:
    The statement was that Private Land Hunters drove the DMTAG process.  That is not correct. I was only a Public Land hunter for most of the time.....not until three years ago hunting with my oldest son on a lease.  The meetings were open to diverse ideas and I always felt mine were listened to by the FWC Staff....Certainly did not get all the things I want, but a lot of very positive things happened directly because of the DMTAG....not all of them "deer" related, as I have always pushed to get the WMAs more OPEN TO SPONTANEOUS HUNTING....without quotas...I was able to get hog hunting without quotas during many more days on the WMAs...especially during deer and small game days.  The MODEL I use for public land is the KISSIMMEE PUBLIC USE AREA.....I would like to see most WMAs run on those rules...What has to be understood is the large private land tracts were usually managed more conservatively than the WMAs when DMTAG began ten years ago...ARs were the norm on private land....and you certainly were not allowed to kill two deer a day every day of season...etc, etc...I can understand why some would say the "private land people drove the new rule making"....but, that is not what happened...The FWC simply agreed that rules similar to those often found on private lands were also suitable for Public Land in some ways...To increase the health of the herd and increase hunter satisfaction for the majority of hunters using public lands.
    yeah and you screwed the true small game hunter with your hog hunts..

    now every youtube flatbrimmer boar hunter shows up, challenges the no centerfire rifle restriction with (I got a .308 pistol) with grey area **** and the true small game hunter (dad with a young son squirrel/rabbit hunter ) gets pushed out.

    Quail guys got pushed out too.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • N. CookN. Cook Posts: 2,165 Captain
    How does the opportunity to hog hunt "push out" anyone?  Especially the extra days of hog hunting before or after the regular WMA small game season?  Concurrent hunting ( and other recreation) on public lands prevents the dividing up of opportunity into short blocks of days.  I have no problem squirrel hunting when hog hunting is also an option...carry a few slugs just in case....other than wearing some orange..which is a good idea on any public hunting area...
  • Big MakBig Mak Posts: 3,374 Captain
    So, now that the states herd has improved it's age structure and balance, and everyone is conditioned to shoot "older" deer with specific antler requirements, can we finally get rid of the 2-4 day quota hunt system in order to restore some show n go hunting opportunities? Let's spread some of the wealth now that all things are created equal!
  • joelunchbucketjoelunchbucket Posts: 452 Deckhand
    ANUMBER1 said:
    there was no reporting requirement last 30 years with antlerless tags


    Antlerless permit holders were required to submit some data in the past, although in recent years that wasn't the case. It was recently added back as a permit requirement. A good change from what was the case the last 12-15 years, IMO.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 11,429 AG
    some ranches submitted before/after weights, sex, number of points, jawbones, and kidneys..

    none of that was part of the plan
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • joelunchbucketjoelunchbucket Posts: 452 Deckhand
    True. Harvest was required to be reported though. 
  • OGBOHICAOGBOHICA floridaPosts: 212 Deckhand
    as the dog chases his tail accomplishing nothing... is what Anumber is trying to say. Nothing has been done with any data aquired for decades. With the exception of Big Cypress, it has been severely mismanaged and has been on the decline for decades.

  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 11,429 AG
    True. Harvest was required to be reported though. 
    True. Harvest was required to be reported though




    it hasn't been required in at least 10 years.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • wayviswayvis FloridaPosts: 137 Deckhand
    Big Mak said:
    So, now that the states herd has improved it's age structure and balance, and everyone is conditioned to shoot "older" deer with specific antler requirements, can we finally get rid of the 2-4 day quota hunt system in order to restore some show n go hunting opportunities? Let's spread some of the wealth now that all things are created equal!
    Good point! This is the main reason I supported these changes. Before FWC always used the excuse that they had to manage these areas conservatively, because they didn't know how many deer were being taking without check stations. Don't hold your breath though, because it seems to me that how and why they manage some WMAs is a sacred cow. Makes no sense!
  • wayviswayvis FloridaPosts: 137 Deckhand
    OGBOHICA said:
    as the dog chases his tail accomplishing nothing... is what Anumber is trying to say. Nothing has been done with any data aquired for decades. With the exception of Big Cypress, it has been severely mismanaged and has been on the decline for decades.

    This is not true. When setting up the DMU's and season dates we used data to determine the rut dates. In some areas that was lacking data they actually collected new data. Also past data from areas was used to determine what DMUs where going to be 3 on a side or forked.
  • OGBOHICAOGBOHICA floridaPosts: 212 Deckhand
    Data was not used, field observation and public input were used. Only a couple areas in Florida were sampled for breeding success rates as far as I know or remember, but Please show us this data? I love to read and learn wayvis

    https://myfwc.com/hunting/deer/
  • joelunchbucketjoelunchbucket Posts: 452 Deckhand
    ANUMBER1 said:
    True. Harvest was required to be reported though. 
    True. Harvest was required to be reported though




    it hasn't been required in at least 10 years.
    Correct. Probably a little over 10 years. Good that this has changed for the better. 
  • joelunchbucketjoelunchbucket Posts: 452 Deckhand
    OGBOHICA said:
    Data was not used, field observation and public input were used. Only a couple areas in Florida were sampled for breeding success rates as far as I know or remember, but Please show us this data? I love to read and learn wayvis

    https://myfwc.com/hunting/deer/
    Good one Rich! Have fun trying to prove your claim that data isn’t being used. LOL

    Wavis is correct that, in setting the season framework for each of the zones, some historical data was used and that new breeding chronology data was also collected to fill in the voids in the earlier data. A lot of new data points actually. That is pretty obvious in the information that the FWC already makes easily available on their website, if you care to look for yourself. 
  • joelunchbucketjoelunchbucket Posts: 452 Deckhand
    edited December 2019 #48
    OGBOHICA said:

    as far as I know or remember
    Good job narrowing the deficiency down to just these two possibilities.......
  • OGBOHICAOGBOHICA floridaPosts: 212 Deckhand
    U cant show any data because they didnt use any data
  • joelunchbucketjoelunchbucket Posts: 452 Deckhand
    edited December 2019 #50
    LOL You can say it as many times as you want to but you still can’t show that they didn’t use any data.

    They have already shown the old data and the new data that they used. It’s been seen on their website by many. You could see it too, if you cared to inform yourself. We all know how that will go though. 
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 11,429 AG
    all the years of issuing antlerless tags to private lands and never required any reporting..

    even during the process of formulating this new hunter satisfaction plan..


    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • swampdogswampdog Central FloridaPosts: 1,066 Officer
    Stopped in a romp & stomp yesterday. Folks said they’re seeing more deer than ever and don’t know what to attribute it to. I guess some folks are reaping the benefits. These folks have been hunting this area for 50 plus years. Interesting report and unsolicited. We were mostly catching up on our families and the subject came up.
  • joelunchbucketjoelunchbucket Posts: 452 Deckhand
    edited December 2019 #53
    Any reporting? Never?

    Art, you must have been in a different antlerless permit program than everyone else back in the early 80’s through mid-2000’s. In the FWC’s program during that time period, permittees who didn’t submit a harvest report couldn’t re-apply the next year.

    The 2019 version of the antlerless permit program is better than the first version and definitely better than the last version. Better reporting requirements, better tagging requirements, and better tag issuance rates. 
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 11,429 AG
    Any reporting? Never?

    Art, you must have been in a different antlerless permit program than everyone else back in the early 80’s through mid-2000’s. In the FWC’s program during that time period, permittees who didn’t submit a harvest report couldn’t re-apply the next year.

    The 2019 version of the antlerless permit program is better than the first version and definitely better than the last version. Better reporting requirements, better tagging requirements, and better tag issuance rates. 
    I'd say from 2006 or so on was no requirement, might be off a year or two.

    Was not a director in a club back in the 80's here.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • OGBOHICAOGBOHICA floridaPosts: 212 Deckhand
    LOL You can say it as many times as you want to but you still can’t show that they didn’t use any data.

    They have already shown the old data and the new data that they used. It’s been seen on their website by many. You could see it too, if you cared to inform yourself. We all know how that will go though. 
    link please?
  • joelunchbucketjoelunchbucket Posts: 452 Deckhand
    It’s on their website. Easy to find if you look. Probably why you’re not familiar with it. If you’re waiting for me to provide it for you, good luck. I’m not fond of doing for others what they can easily do for themselves.
  • joelunchbucketjoelunchbucket Posts: 452 Deckhand
    You are correct about +\- 2006. That was around the time the hiatus began on the requirement for info to be submitted.
  • OGBOHICAOGBOHICA floridaPosts: 212 Deckhand
    It’s on their website. Easy to find if you look. Probably why you’re not familiar with it. If you’re waiting for me to provide it for you, good luck. I’m not fond of doing for others what they can easily do for themselves.
    Must be hidden or doesn't exist? Ill go with doesn't exist
  • joelunchbucketjoelunchbucket Posts: 452 Deckhand
    edited December 2019 #59
    And you’d be wrong again. On both counts. No surprise there though. 
  • aqualifeaqualife JupiterPosts: 51 Deckhand
    swampdog said:
    Stopped in a romp & stomp yesterday. Folks said they’re seeing more deer than ever and don’t know what to attribute it to.
    Global warming.....
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 11,429 AG
    You are correct about +\- 2006. That was around the time the hiatus began on the requirement for info to be submitted.
    why was no data collected in that time frame?

    2006 is aprox the time our club went from state rules to antlerless tags in order to harvest a doe, no tag= no doe.
    Also same time went to a forked horn or better for bucks.

    Just curious.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
Sign In or Register to comment.