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About poaching..

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  • buckfeverbuckfever Posts: 164 Deckhand
    Subsonics are fun to play with but really don't kill that well and in .22 they have a limited range.  I did kill a bunch of small hogs this year with a suppressed subsonic [email protected] 710fps,  but they were real small and within 30-40 yards.  If it wasn't into the ear then they ususally ran off, which was fine with me as I was trying to eradicate rather than recover.




  • buckfeverbuckfever Posts: 164 Deckhand
    I'd think that .22 mag would be the preferred choice among people shooting from a road in the lights. 
  • 2times2times AlvaPosts: 82 Deckhand
    I have a place about 1 hour drive from 2 big cities (90 minutes from 4) and we have more problems with thrill killings from city folks than with poaching.  Once or twice a year I'll hear a shot or two at night from 22 rimfire where as once a month or so I'll hear at late night a fool with AR rapid firing 30 rounds followed couple minutes later by another burst of 30 rounds.  These city fools don't even take the rack from bucks...just all wasted venison on a field close to dirt road.         
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,736 AG
    Pinman said:
    So what’s the answer?

    I
    i. e. cultural change. 


    Does there have to be an answer?  I mean people are driving 78 MPH on the Interstate all day long and the law is 70.  Go catch the guy doing 90 or in the case of poaching, the guy shooting a commercial amount of Deer.  I think that's the only way to go about it unless there happens to be the easy collar on someone who presents themselves to LEO. Resources are spread thin.

    I always scratch my head at the outrage over someone shooting a Mottled during early Teal season, as if its a capital crime. Its a duck for crying out loud.  Mistakes are made and Ive made plenty over 40+ years of hunting.

    Ron, what you are seeing for the most part IMHO is a " just don't care enough to learn" with that person shooting a Mottled duck during early teal. Unlike your boys or my son who were mentored into the sport.....many of those who break game laws were not held to account by a father or other mentor. Is it a big deal that a certain percentage will not read the rules and learn the proper ID of game etc....Maybe ?
    If a perswon shot a doe....and would someone else be right inb saying " I scratch my head at the outrage...it's just a deer...mistakes get made"....
     * OR *  are we rightly pizzed off because it shows lack of respect for the laws we are all expected to *READ*....*UNDERSTAND BEFOREHAND*...and *OBEY* ..... For the good of the resource.  

    Yesterday FWC made a case on several guys hunting ducks in a regulated area....on a day closed to hunting. Is that a big deal...or no ?  
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • Reel TealReel Teal Posts: 3,927 Captain
    duckmanJR said:
    Pinman said:
    So what’s the answer?

    I
    i. e. cultural change. 


    Does there have to be an answer?  I mean people are driving 78 MPH on the Interstate all day long and the law is 70.  Go catch the guy doing 90 or in the case of poaching, the guy shooting a commercial amount of Deer.  I think that's the only way to go about it unless there happens to be the easy collar on someone who presents themselves to LEO. Resources are spread thin.

    I always scratch my head at the outrage over someone shooting a Mottled during early Teal season, as if its a capital crime. Its a duck for crying out loud.  Mistakes are made and Ive made plenty over 40+ years of hunting.

    Ron, what you are seeing for the most part IMHO is a " just don't care enough to learn" with that person shooting a Mottled duck during early teal. Unlike your boys or my son who were mentored into the sport.....many of those who break game laws were not held to account by a father or other mentor. Is it a big deal that a certain percentage will not read the rules and learn the proper ID of game etc....Maybe ?
    If a perswon shot a doe....and would someone else be right inb saying " I scratch my head at the outrage...it's just a deer...mistakes get made"....
     * OR *  are we rightly pizzed off because it shows lack of respect for the laws we are all expected to *READ*....*UNDERSTAND BEFOREHAND*...and *OBEY* ..... For the good of the resource.  

    Yesterday FWC made a case on several guys hunting ducks in a regulated area....on a day closed to hunting. Is that a big deal...or no ?  
    I agree. Its all a big deal. If we dont make it a big deal or hold people accountable then shooting ducks out of season wouldnt be a mistake, just something that happens bc we shouldn't get mad. Just like with poaching deer. If no one cares about it then it will continue to no end. Its rampant, i wouldn't say on wmas, but poaching is rampant.
  • Florida BullfrogFlorida Bullfrog Posts: 3,166 Captain
    edited December 2019 #37
    buckfever said:
    I'd think that .22 mag would be the preferred choice among people shooting from a road in the lights. 
    The firehunting cases I’ve prosecuted in recent years has been with .17 HMRs almost exclusively. 

    But subsonic .22s will do it. Just have to make a solid brain shot. There’s no room to miss the brain. I have a Mk II that can drill dime sized groups at 65 yards. On a hog with a weak subsonic, the ear isn’t the ideal choice. There isn’t much brain behind the ear hole. The brain is right behind the eye when the hog is facing broadside with his snout in line with his back (looking forward). You can always find the brain when the hog is broadside by drawing a line across the snout, thru the eye, and putting your POI an inch or so behind the eye in line with the snout line. It will actually be a hair lower than the outer ear hole and before you get to the ear. The reason ear shots work is that an exploding bullet will dump energy and shrapnel there and just clip the back end of the brain where it connects to the spine. 

    On a deer, only take a brain shot on one that’s facing you and draw an “X” between the ears and the eyes. The X will mark the center of the brain. A whitetail’s brain is flat and wide and takes up most of the forehead. They don’t have the extensive sinus cavities a hog has. That’s one reason hogs often survive head on shots. The bullet will catch sinus instead of brain. 
  • Florida BullfrogFlorida Bullfrog Posts: 3,166 Captain
    buckfever said:
    I'd think that .22 mag would be the preferred choice among people shooting from a road in the lights. 
    I do think the .22 mag is the most perfect all purpose survival round a person could use. Everything in the woods will fall to it at range with proper shot placement.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 11,429 AG
    .22 is a perfect round to poach with day or night..

    That sharp little crack is hard to pinpoint... fact.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • Flhunter57Flhunter57 Posts: 84 Deckhand
    spangler said:
    Are there many poachers that don't care about meat? Or do people take horns from road kill?
    Couple months ago saw 2 carcasses on the road. Within a mile of each other. Circled back to have a look. Each missing just the head. Not skinned or strapped.
    I've seen three deer so far this year on roads with the head missing or antlers cut off.  The one missing the head was just a few miles south of Thomasville, GA.  I see the same thing almost every year.  Last year I stopped to look at a seven point that had been hit a few hours earlier, but he was busted up pretty bad and smellin to high heaven.  I came back by a few hours later and the head was gone.  I guess someone is gonna lay claim to the road kill antlers, or maybe maybe make a couple of small knife handles.  They had to have a strong stomach for sure.
  • JonsredfishinJonsredfishin Posts: 2,107 Captain
    edited December 2019 #41
    ANUMBER1 said:
    .22 is a perfect round to poach with day or night..

    That sharp little crack is hard to pinpoint... fact.
    I’d bet a Crossbow with red dot is the new .22 mag with CCI’s. 
    One president put a man on the moon.
    Another president put a man in the Lady's bathroom.
  • FloridaODFloridaOD Posts: 3,761 Captain
    edited December 2019 #42
    What is State formal Poach/ Illegal Take estimate guess in setting Legal Deer Harvest?

    Has incidence of Poach risen?

    WMA adjacent boundary property poach incidence?
    Hunters are present yet relatively uncommon in Florida :wink
  • buckfeverbuckfever Posts: 164 Deckhand
    Crossbows use to be associated with poaching, but I don't know why because blood trailing isn't part of plan for shooting out the truck window.

    Now when I hear .22 hornet I think of less than ethical hunting.
  • PinmanPinman Posts: 2,650 Captain
    I get  "everyone has to follow the laws", and they should.  I think there's a difference between the intentional and an innocent mistake.  Part of the reason some hesitate to get into Hunting is fear of breaking one of the many (too many IMO) rules.  I cringe when I read of someone being ticketed and having the buck confiscated because 1 point was 1/2 inch too small.  That's like getting a ticket for going 5 mph over the spend limit. I know, I know....don't take the shot unless your sure...
  • Florida BullfrogFlorida Bullfrog Posts: 3,166 Captain
    I don’t consider an accidental or even negligible act the same as poaching. Poaching in my mind is willful disregard of the rules or property rights and doing so as a matter of habit. 
  • Florida BullfrogFlorida Bullfrog Posts: 3,166 Captain
    Crossbows may be a choice for someone poaching on their own land just for the sake of having a precise and quiet weapon. I suspect that road poachers and trespassers are looking for no-trail options. 
  • Flhunter57Flhunter57 Posts: 84 Deckhand
    Pinman said:
    I get  "everyone has to follow the laws", and they should.  I think there's a difference between the intentional and an innocent mistake.  Part of the reason some hesitate to get into Hunting is fear of breaking one of the many (too many IMO) rules.  I cringe when I read of someone being ticketed and having the buck confiscated because 1 point was 1/2 inch too small.  That's like getting a ticket for going 5 mph over the spend limit. I know, I know....don't take the shot unless your sure...
    Most of the people I know that never took up hunting usually tell me their dad or other family members did not hunt, or did not introduce them to hunting early on, so they just never took the time to try it themselves.  Then there are those that procrastinate that they would have to buy a gun, and buy a license and apply for permits, and figure out where to go.  Then they go into the speil of they wouldn't know how to skin a deer or a hog, or. where would they find someone to process the meat, and where would they put the meat if they only have a refridgerator/freezer, etc, etc.  They have never mentioned any concern over possibly breaking the law by accident, concerning antler restrictions.  I always tell them you have to read the regulations for each WMA and follow the rules accordingly and they'll be fine.
  • meateatermeateater south flaPosts: 517 Officer
    spangler said:
    Are there many poachers that don't care about meat? Or do people take horns from road kill?
    Couple months ago saw 2 carcasses on the road. Within a mile of each other. Circled back to have a look. Each missing just the head. Not skinned or strapped.
    I've seen three deer so far this year on roads with the head missing or antlers cut off.  The one missing the head was just a few miles south of Thomasville, GA.  I see the same thing almost every year.  Last year I stopped to look at a seven point that had been hit a few hours earlier, but he was busted up pretty bad and smellin to high heaven.  I came back by a few hours later and the head was gone.  I guess someone is gonna lay claim to the road kill antlers, or maybe maybe make a couple of small knife handles.  They had to have a strong stomach for sure.
    i have 4 maybe 5 racks i have taken from road killed bucks hit by vehicles    one was huge i got off turnpike near three lakes      on the way to disney with family and yes my wife was not happy.     still looking for a fresh killed bear only found one and hair already started slipping.  only for sure poached buck i found was in hendry county driving along i spotted it sitting in a field 75 yds off the road     sitting just like a dog   called fwc    hour later he showed up we walked out to it and sure enough bullet hole thru back hams      he finished it off then tried to contact land owner after that he helped me load it in my truck.   he said not a everyday thing out there but not the first time.  
  • zimmy4209zimmy4209 Ocala FloridaPosts: 971 Officer
    saw this earlier on facebook.  As big as that particular forest is for every instance someone finds this theres a handful that go unfounded. Some people are just bottom of barrel pure trash 
  • Big MakBig Mak Posts: 3,371 Captain
    Man, that kinda wastefulness just pi$$es me off to no end!
  • MissedMissed O-townPosts: 209 Deckhand
    I just want to see the same "righteous anger" when folks commit crimes against other folks as many guys have regarding game violations.

    As for the mottled duck, AR violation, or other minor issue honest mistake outrage - most of it is hypocrisy.

    I had a guy trudge across a swamp to b&m about something. Then he went back to his group, and they shot 4 minutes early.  Hypocrisy.
  • zimmy4209zimmy4209 Ocala FloridaPosts: 971 Officer
    Missed said:
    I just want to see the same "righteous anger" when folks commit crimes against other folks as many guys have regarding game violations.

    As for the mottled duck, AR violation, or other minor issue honest mistake outrage - most of it is hypocrisy.

    I had a guy trudge across a swamp to b&m about something. Then he went back to his group, and they shot 4 minutes early.  Hypocrisy.
    I'll be first to admit I'm a bit slow upstairs so guess I dont follow what your saying. I'm by no means the be all end all but the picture that was posted compared to shooting 4 minutes early is like comparing a parking ticket to someone who touches little kids. An honest mistake would be AR violation like you said not a doe with tenderloins cut out and a buck with his head cut off. Who even knows about other deer but I guess your right they could have all died of heart attacks in dudes driveway and he just took what he wanted and got rid of the rest. I dont know what happened at all so should reserve judgement about it my bad 
  • FlatsMatt96FlatsMatt96 ChuluotaPosts: 1,221 Officer
    Floridas poaching culture is very much alive and well. Im sure you all know that. Theres a whole network of poachers all over the state. They use the black market heavily. One of the biggest style of offenders youll get is drug addicts illegally taking deer and other game to support the drag habit. They sell the meat on the black market. The other big one is dumb kids who are just shooting to shoot. Theyll shoot anything that is an animal, whether it be livestock or wildlife. 
    If youre going to burn a bridge, dont just burn it, use C4 and make a statement. 
  • H20dadH20dad Posts: 1,984 Captain
    Funny how people are concerned about poaching but not fighting Texas mountain lions who poach every day. They are much worse than any humans. And these resources are maintained for humans, us. 

    I’ll remind you of the Lolo elk in in Idaho. It went from over 16,000 elk to effectively none in less than 20 years due to wolves. No humans could accomplish that event. 

    Bears and Texas mountain lions are repeating that here at the will of anti hunters who know predators can eliminate hunters when they cannot....

    Put that in your pipe and smoke it. 
  • gritsnhuntin1gritsnhuntin1 Posts: 1,180 Officer
    Come on, we are on the verge of loosing the "panthers" every year since I can remember. How could they do that to our deer population? It's all from the pythons according to the powers that be.
  • Turner River TerrorTurner River Terror Posts: 7,671 Admiral
    The Panthers pretty much started the downfall and the Pythons are cleaning up the leftovers...
    Killin and Grillin :grin
  • swampdogswampdog Central FloridaPosts: 1,066 Officer
    I guess pythons will eventually “squeeze” the panthers out.....
  • FlatsMatt96FlatsMatt96 ChuluotaPosts: 1,221 Officer
    swampdog said:
    I guess pythons will eventually “squeeze” the panthers out.....
    Too soon lol
    If youre going to burn a bridge, dont just burn it, use C4 and make a statement. 
  • swampdogswampdog Central FloridaPosts: 1,066 Officer
    I know...right B)
  • zimmy4209zimmy4209 Ocala FloridaPosts: 971 Officer
    it took me a couple days to get my brother to finally send me a pic of this buck. Most of the time when someone poaches a buck they cut the head off or just above the shoulders and leave the body. Well my grandpa found the exact opposite back in the early 60's of this deer. He found just the head laying in the ditch and the body gone.  It was simply amazing because his garage was always full of antlers of bucks hed killed in his life and quite a few of them were real impressive deer but this one was literally twice the size of anyone hed ever killed. Few years before he died we had a family friend get into taxidermy business and offered to mount it for us one year for Christmas for him for just the price of the mold. I'm just throwing numbers out right now so may be way off base but my biggest buck I ever killed weight wise was 206 lbs and I think I remember taxidermist saying whatever number they use to measure the Cape was 18 inches for the buck hanging in this picture but the Cape they used for this poached buck to mount was 23 inches. Hands down biggest 9 point I've ever put my eyes on. I remember someone here back on april fools talking about fwc implementing new law circumference of base of antlers  had to be 5 inches minimum to be legal to shoot(which by the way my gullible _ss swallowed hook on that joke) This 9 point was literally all that and then some. It's like beer cans coming out of base of his head.
  • swampdogswampdog Central FloridaPosts: 1,066 Officer
    Darn awesome buck Zim! What state if you don’t mind?
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