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We’re 5 seasons into the Antler Restrictions

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  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 11,429 AG
    edited December 2019 #122
    I usually agree with you Art, but I’m having difficulty seeing anything in the recent changes to the FWC’s deer management program that could logically be construed as an attempt to ban dog hunting.

    At the request of dog hunters, the forked antler rule was applied to the DMUs where dog hunting is most prevalent, to better accommodate that method of deer hunting, while still meeting the FWC’s objective of getting most yearling bucks through the season.

    Bag limits don’t reduce anyone’s ability to run their dogs. A dog hunter may need to let someone else pull the trigger, if they fill their bag before the end of the season. But that’s not a ban either.

    Is there another change that you are referring to maybe?
    I agree the forked antler rule was to accommodate us dog hunters but I see the whole hunter satisfaction process as a step in the direction to push us out (as we are in the minority statewide, think foxpens)..

    The one time I sat in one of the DMTAG meeting I listened to three hours of "if we require under 16 and over 65 hunters to get a no cost permit for deer hunting, would that drive down hunter #'s?"

    That's hunter satisfaction, not deer management.

    JMO.

    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • MarkiamMarkiam East Orlando Posts: 25 Deckhand
    Keep in mind too that deer get much smarter every season they survive.
    Absolutely, they learn exponentially every year even if you don't teach them.
  • wayviswayvis FloridaPosts: 137 Deckhand
    ANUMBER1 said:
    I usually agree with you Art, but I’m having difficulty seeing anything in the recent changes to the FWC’s deer management program that could logically be construed as an attempt to ban dog hunting.

    At the request of dog hunters, the forked antler rule was applied to the DMUs where dog hunting is most prevalent, to better accommodate that method of deer hunting, while still meeting the FWC’s objective of getting most yearling bucks through the season.

    Bag limits don’t reduce anyone’s ability to run their dogs. A dog hunter may need to let someone else pull the trigger, if they fill their bag before the end of the season. But that’s not a ban either.

    Is there another change that you are referring to maybe?
    I agree the forked antler rule was to accommodate us dog hunters but I see the whole hunter satisfaction process as a step in the direction to push us out (as we are in the minority statewide, think foxpens)..

    The one time I sat in one of the DMTAG meeting I listened to three hours of "if we require under 16 and over 65 hunters to get a no cost permit for deer hunting, would that drive down hunter #'s?"

    That's hunter satisfaction, not deer management.

    JMO.

    The 16 and 65 hunter discussion was about accounting for how many deer hunters are in the state. This had very little if anything to do with hunter satisfaction. It was about getting a better handle on how many deer hunters we have, in order to better manage and get more money from the Fed's.
    Also from what I see the FWC has increased some dog hunting on WMA's with the hog hunts over the last 5 to 10 years. FWC my be against some forms of dog hunting but I don't think they are trying to ban dog hunting.  
  • N. CookN. Cook Posts: 2,165 Captain
    Amazing...some people seem to not understand the FWC staff supported dog hunting when they were under attack by the animal rights and anti hunting crowd and could just as easily saved themselves grief and stopped the dog hunting.....and the "fox pen" people lost because of the bad apples in the group who gave the anti's plenty of ammunition to use...and it is the COMMISSIONERS WHO MAKE THE DECISIONS...even on the bear hunts, the FWC STAFF SUPPORTED HUNTING....it was a political vote by the Commissioners that stopped the hunts.,,,I have supported dog hunting and it has a place in our traditions, but, dog hunters will have to adjust to the times and make sure they do not supply the anti's with ammunition or it will become politically unfeasible to maintain. Life is not always "fair", especially when politics are involved.

  • OGBOHICAOGBOHICA floridaPosts: 210 Deckhand
    When will shooting an anmal with a gun become "ammunition for the anti's, or "politically unfeasable to manage" cmon Newt like we are under aa full court press now. Dogs were an ez target guns are next draw the line in the sand, dog hunters got screwed and continue to get screwed. Its MYFWCC who we need to ban and get back to a GFC mentality
  • meateatermeateater south flaPosts: 515 Officer
    Big Mak said:
    And to think, 3L used to give up 900 bucks a year back in the day... That was a time when most of our illustrious forum members were either still sucking their thumbs or still being developed in their daddys sack...
    how bout rotenburger    used to see 30 , 40 plus deer and few hogs a day         now theres no hogs and less than 40 deer in the entire area.    






  • OGBOHICAOGBOHICA floridaPosts: 210 Deckhand
    Nobody cares about south florida deer herd...that will be until their area is hit next,then its too late again!
  • N. CookN. Cook Posts: 2,165 Captain
    The FWC currently has the ability to pass game/hunting/fishing regulations without the approval or interference of the legislature...nothing is perfect, but that is the current law....The fear of losing that "independence" to a Constitution amendment causes a lot of the problems we have today....especially the bear hunt....Dog hunting is supported by the FWC staff, and as far as I know all the FWC Commissioners today.  But, like the bear hunt, it there is enough public noise it can bend the FWC Commission votes....This is a fact we live with.  Not one I like...but, if you are advocating with agencies, you have to do so with the knowledge of possible consequences of your positions....This situation is not going to get better going into the future as the demographics in Florida are running against hunting.  We need to be seeking wider support among the public for hunting.
  • OGBOHICAOGBOHICA floridaPosts: 210 Deckhand
    AKA lake spraying..... I guess the public is OK with that?
  • zimmy4209zimmy4209 Ocala FloridaPosts: 969 Officer
    OGBOHICA said:
    AKA lake spraying..... I guess the public is OK with that?
    Going a little off track with the thread on this post and I'm terrible at trying to navigate electronics couldn't find out how to post the link so only could screenshot this I'm sure if you go to YouTube and type in the heading you get the video but seems this guy is all over fwc. Not sure his agenda really but there is some interesting details in the video on spraying. 
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 11,429 AG
    N. Cook said:
    The FWC currently has the ability to pass game/hunting/fishing regulations without the approval or interference of the legislature...nothing is perfect, but that is the current law....The fear of losing that "independence" to a Constitution amendment causes a lot of the problems we have today....especially the bear hunt....Dog hunting is supported by the FWC staff, and as far as I know all the FWC Commissioners today.  But, like the bear hunt, it there is enough public noise it can bend the FWC Commission votes....This is a fact we live with.  Not one I like...but, if you are advocating with agencies, you have to do so with the knowledge of possible consequences of your positions....This situation is not going to get better going into the future as the demographics in Florida are running against hunting.  We need to be seeking wider support among the public for hunting.
    I bet you supported the net ban thru constitutional amendment (let's call it CA for short) because you believed that was what was needed..

    As a commercial fisher (before and after the net ban) and an avid hunter (dog hunter at that) I find myself laughing and cringing at the CA process with regards to hunting and the bulk of you yahoo's fears.

    On one hand y'all cry for wildlife management based on best available science while conveniently forgetting how the bulk of you threw "best available science" out the back effing window for a CA in order to obtain a goal of putting a time honored and once respected profession in the **** grave.

    Shame on you..

    you get what you deserve.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 11,429 AG
    the anti's learned how to runaround from Wickstrom & Co.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • spanglerspangler daBurgPosts: 2,709 Captain
    edited January 3 #134
    Forgot about K nep Environment
    @zimmy Thanks for reminding me!  There's new stuff I haven't seen. Just watched one about the boats the state of
    Florida needs to buy a fleet of.  No more excuses



    There will never be a really free and enlightened state until the state comes to recognize the individual as a higher and independent power, from which all its own power and authority are derived.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 11,429 AG
    for what, some wacko spreading fake news?

    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • spanglerspangler daBurgPosts: 2,709 Captain
    You think chems are a good way to manage our aquatic herb prob?
    There will never be a really free and enlightened state until the state comes to recognize the individual as a higher and independent power, from which all its own power and authority are derived.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 11,429 AG
    spangler said:
    You think chems are a good way to manage our aquatic herb prob?
    yes and no but if applied right it's the most effective way.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 11,429 AG
    as an air boat guy it really doesn't matter to me, others may see differently.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • spanglerspangler daBurgPosts: 2,709 Captain
    edited January 3 #139
    You understand the nutrient problem right?  Chem treatment isn't even a bandaid.  It's smoke.  Those plants, nuisance or not, are not only symptomatic, but ironically do actually help address the real problem.  By removing nutrients.  When you don't remove the plant, you release the nutrients back when they die.  More nutrients and now more plants.  Hence, more and more chemicals.  It's a train we gotta get off of.
    There will never be a really free and enlightened state until the state comes to recognize the individual as a higher and independent power, from which all its own power and authority are derived.
  • swampdogswampdog Central FloridaPosts: 1,062 Officer
    Wow this thread ran off the rails big time......
  • spanglerspangler daBurgPosts: 2,709 Captain
    I tried to start another one..
    Anumb can't help but cry about the net ban
    There will never be a really free and enlightened state until the state comes to recognize the individual as a higher and independent power, from which all its own power and authority are derived.
  • zimmy4209zimmy4209 Ocala FloridaPosts: 969 Officer
    Spangler thanks for doing the technical work for a electronic dummy.  I woulda figured that guy was full of _hit what he was saying but he had every shred of evidence right on video. I could really care less about guys spraying combustible stuff all over there own boats but the whole part about the chemical they sprayed once it came in contact with muddy water basically fused it in water for eternity was what caught my attention. I wouldnt necessarily put it on fwc because they were all subcontractors doing the work but clearly need to hire less careless people  
  • spanglerspangler daBurgPosts: 2,709 Captain
    edited January 3 #143
    I've posted his videos before.  He's done better, than anyone else I know, to document the insanely careless use of chems.  Nevermind the fact they don't even address the problem.  At all.  He's got footage of them spraying blankets of nothing but spadderdock.  Spraying, spraying, spraying into just water, no plants at all. 
    Sorry, but I've watched the death of our waterways with my own eyes.  It wasn't caused by plants.  Or even the nutrients actually (although they do seem to be fueling algaes and other nasties).  The death is caused by chems.  There's no question.  At a bare minimum, it is how chem treatment works that is doing it. (note: Killing and NOT removing plants is a huge problem, where the real problem is nutrients).
    The decaying plant matter not only releases it's nutrients back into the water, it settles on the bottom.  Over and over again.  It's creating nasty mucky anerobic matts.  It's not the place of life.  It's the place of death.  It's really that bad.
    There will never be a really free and enlightened state until the state comes to recognize the individual as a higher and independent power, from which all its own power and authority are derived.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 11,429 AG
    and what does chem treatment have to do with constitutional amendments on fishing and hunting any way??
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • james 14james 14 Posts: 3,065 Moderator
    Please refrain from personal attacks guys.
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