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Right reel for the job

TuckerTucker Posts: 126 Officer
At some point in the near future Im going to be putting together at least one bottom fishing outfit. Im wanting the low down on the right reel for the job. I want something that is a great value, it doesnt have to be dirt cheap but value is a plus. I want it to be reliable and pretty tough but realistically its not going to be fished everyday or even every week for that matter. I want it to be able to pull big grouper up from the bottom and handle heavy line if only to be able to pull them free of the rocks by hands if nescesary. Obviously I think a Penn Senator would probably fit the bill but Im slowly but surely becoming a Shimano fan ( recently picked up my new love affair, a Stradic 4000) so I was looking at the TLDs. Also I like the idea of an Avet but I dont know if they have something comparable in price to the Senator and TLD that could perform to the same level. Also I like the thought of the toruims but I think they are in the same boat as the Avets. Thanks for all the input ill probably end up going with an apropriate sized Star or Shimano rod when I put the setup together.
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Replies

  • BUCHEADBUCHEAD Posts: 112 Deckhand
    I am a big fan of Newell & Avets for my bottom fishing. But for one bottom set up I feel there is a reason that the head boats, and alot of charter boats use the Penn 4/0. They will get the job done, and last. Just my opinion.


    :beer
    I've Got 99 Problems, But A Fish Aint One...................................................................................................................Hit Me!
  • redproredpro Posts: 102 Officer
    Yea I vote for a penn senator but go with the 6/0 on a good star rod. Shop around and you can find 6/0 for around $100 and the rods about the same. Way easier to pull them off the bottom with a locked down 6/0 than 4/0. Load it up with 100lbs mono and you have a grouper slaying machine. The tlds don't have the drag strength to get them off the bottom IMO.... Have also heard good stuff about the avets but thats way more money.
    2005 Sea Pro SV2100 "Box Stuffer" :fishing
  • Jack HexterJack Hexter New Port RicheyPosts: 4,985 Moderator
    Daiwa Sealine 400H or 450H - Put it on an Ugly Stick Custom USCB 1170-MH, a 7' , 30#-50# rod, Load the reel with 50# or even 80# mono and you are good to go. The Rod retails for $79.00, the reel retails for @ $120.00 (River Marine) so you are out the door for $200, plus line and tax.

    The Daiwa Sealines are built much heavier than the Penn Senators and the internal parts (gears and drags) of the Sealines are one step heavier than the Penns of an equal size, that is, a 350H Sealine is the size of a Penn 113, but the gears and drag on the 350H is the size of a Penn 114
  • TuckerTucker Posts: 126 Officer
    I agree with the charter boats must know something theory but I just figured it was the cost aspect. There are very few products that can stay at the top of the heap for as long as the senator has (colt 1911 is another one). I will probably end up with at least one senator but it just seems like Penn has taken a hit since selling out. Thanks Jax for the heads up on the Daiwa I really like their look. As far as the Avets are concerened if I could find an Avet that would do what I wanted at under $300 or so I might would be interested but it doesnt seem to be the case. Too bad about the TLDs though, Im big on brand loyalty when possible and I thought I had a Shimano thing going lol.
  • johnDjohnD WC FLPosts: 6,419 Admiral
    If you want a 6/0 combo I have one in the classifieds.
    Torium 30 or 50 on a 7' ugly stick will make a nice combo.
  • conchydongconchydong Pompano BeachPosts: 6,920 Admiral
    Penn Baja Special for bottom fishing. Solid aluminum frame and has Penn versadrag system. Oh, and this one is still made in USA. Daiwa Sealine is second choice

    “Everyone behaves badly--given the chance.”
    ― Ernest Hemingway

  • FlagtailsFlagtails MiamiPosts: 577 Officer
    Daiwa Sealine 400H or 450H - Put it on an Ugly Stick Custom USCB 1170-MH, a 7' , 30#-50# rod, Load the reel with 50# or even 80# mono and you are good to go. The Rod retails for $79.00, the reel retails for @ $120.00 (River Marine) so you are out the door for $200, plus line and tax.

    The Daiwa Sealines are built much heavier than the Penn Senators and the internal parts (gears and drags) of the Sealines are one step heavier than the Penns of an equal size, that is, a 350H Sealine is the size of a Penn 113, but the gears and drag on the 350H is the size of a Penn 114

    Listen to what Jack says, he knows his stuff.

    Juan
  • DragScreamerDragScreamer Posts: 1,475 Officer
    i use a sustain 2500fe and it handles really big grouper amazingly plus with the light weight and tackle size this makes grouper fishing that much more fun i even use a medium 6' st.croix triumph and this is just an awesome setup i actually prefer this setup rather and a big fat ugly stick on a stradic 5000
    Let's go fishing!
  • Jack HexterJack Hexter New Port RicheyPosts: 4,985 Moderator
    conchydong wrote: »
    Penn Baja Special for bottom fishing. Solid aluminum frame and has Penn versadrag system. Oh, and this one is still made in USA. Daiwa Sealine is second choice

    conchdong, read this:
    Tucker wrote:
    I want it to be reliable and pretty tough but realistically its not going to be fished everyday or even every week for that matter. I want it to be able to pull big grouper up from the bottom and handle heavy line if only to be able to pull them free of the rocks by hands if nescesary.

    The Baja Special is a great bottom fishing reel, but if he wants to handline fish out of a hole, it does not have the capacity for heavier line. The Baja holds 300 of 40# and 80 is the minimum I would want to try for hand-lineing grouper. I don't know how much 80 a Baja would hold. I would not try hand-lining with braid unless you like stitches or wearing heavy gloves
  • conchydongconchydong Pompano BeachPosts: 6,920 Admiral
    Jack, I missed that part. If that is the case, he should skip the rods and reels altogether and get some big yo yos and do it the old fashioned way. Thats generally not the criteria I look at for buying reels but to each his own.........................

    “Everyone behaves badly--given the chance.”
    ― Ernest Hemingway

  • wrightacklewrightackle Posts: 89 Deckhand
    Sealine 600 if you are going to use 100 pound mono. I remember one time when a headboat captain just thru in the towel. He brought me boxes of old senators to use for parts. Looking thru the reels I found one Daiwa sealine 400 that was so old it had Montgomery ward on it instead of Daiwa. It worked perfectly whereas all the senators were trashed. Just couldn't get captains to set up a boat with them though. The stigma of made in Japan at that time was too strong.
  • monoxidemonoxide Posts: 1,094 Officer
    i like a avet 30w. i love the low gear for pulling things out of rocks then the high speed for cranking them in or for fish swimming toward the boat.
    ted.gif
    ted.gif
  • hotrailshotrails Posts: 440 Deckhand
    Shop around I found and bought a 400H and 450H at flea market in very nice condition after short dicker in price, I took both reels and paid man $100.00 checked them out inside,outside and now ready to go, Just for Old school put them on some Kunnan Boatmaster Rods,again flea market on rainy day often pays good results,have about 85-90 in each set up . If no hurry shop around you will find some very good used tackle at fair price
  • rickcrickc Posts: 9,172 Admiral
    Tucker wrote: »
    At some point in the near future Im going to be putting together at least one bottom fishing outfit. Im wanting the low down on the right reel for the job. I want something that is a great value, it doesnt have to be dirt cheap but value is a plus. I want it to be reliable and pretty tough but realistically its not going to be fished everyday or even every week for that matter. I want it to be able to pull big grouper up from the bottom and handle heavy line if only to be able to pull them free of the rocks by hands if nescesary. Obviously I think a Penn Senator would probably fit the bill but Im slowly but surely becoming a Shimano fan ( recently picked up my new love affair, a Stradic 4000) so I was looking at the TLDs. Also I like the idea of an Avet but I dont know if they have something comparable in price to the Senator and TLD that could perform to the same level. Also I like the thought of the toruims but I think they are in the same boat as the Avets. Thanks for all the input ill probably end up going with an apropriate sized Star or Shimano rod when I put the setup together.

    tucker

    where are you fishing and what depths

    With the limits on grouper nowadays its not like the old days where you wanted to load the boat

    might as well get maximum fun from the few fish you get to keep

    I have 6/0's with heavy custom rods, I have newells on ugly stick boat rods, and a bunch of other stuff

    a few years ago I bought one of the shimano jigging rods and a bunch of butterfly jigs

    fun fishing

    so I bought another jigging rod. the medium and put a 400 Calcutta that I had laying around and spooled it with 65# braid

    tried it with live pinfish on a fishfinder rig and even cut bait. Caught some nice grouper with that rig but I must admit the 400 was a little overworked

    now about all I used bottom fishing is shimano jigging rods with a selection of conventional and spinning reels

    The rods are only a hundred dollars and you can spend whatever you want on a reel from a cheap small newell to the accurate boss. I really like the sx avet for $169 a charkbait.

    now where I fish most of our grouper are caught between 30' and 60'.
  • Prop BlastProp Blast Posts: 375 Officer
    First things first. What is your budget? What is the most you are willing to spend on a reel? If your limit is $150, choices are limited. If your budget is $400, there is a lot more to consider.

    Second. Line capacity for bottomfishing is a contradiction in terms -- bottomfishing is a vertical thing. If you're fishing for grouper in 200' of water, frankly, 100yards of line is enough. When was the last time someone had a grouper run off line in excess of the reel's capacity? :shrug

    Bottom fishing reels are almost a Chevy vs Ford pickup thing. Some guys love Daiwa Sealine (Jack for one) other guys love Penns (me for another)... the good news is that both work. I would stay away from lever drags unless you've got the $$$ for an Accurate Boss Extreme 2 speed.

    If you want a good bottom fishing reel for minimal $$, get the Sealine 350/400. It's an old reel with a dated design, but it works.

    If you want a great reel and are willing to spend $250, plus line; get the Penn 113HN "Baja Special". It's a 6/0 reel on steroids in a narrow framed 4/0 size. I've spooled mine with 200 yards of 80lbs braid and 350 yds of 50lbs mono on top -- I don't think line capacity is a problem for me :wink

    If you want the best of things period, buy a used Penn 113H off eBay for $60, customize with a Tiburon topless frame ($80) and T-Bar Light handle ($40) -- both can be bought from Charkbait Tackle online. Put in new drag washers, bearings & gears and you're ready to :fishing

    PB
  • TuckerTucker Posts: 126 Officer
    Wow now I have a lot of research to do lol. I agree with wanting to fight longer with the fish with the limits the way they are but if you are getting cut off in the rocks then Id sure like to get that beast on board. As far as depth and what not, im sure ill end up on head boats in the Gulf and the atlantic as well as in 70 to 100 ft of water off Jax. Like I said before im not buying it right now but im probably not spending more than $250 and if I can find something comparable thats less id probably run with that. Im pretty bummed out the TLDs arent making the short list but im liking the Diawa and like I said if I could find a Avet that was reasonable that would work then id go with that any day. ( I think ;) )
  • TuckerTucker Posts: 126 Officer
    conchydong wrote: »
    Jack, I missed that part. If that is the case, he should skip the rods and reels altogether and get some big yo yos and do it the old fashioned way. Thats generally not the criteria I look at for buying reels but to each his own.........................

    I just want a meat stick that I can pull pretty much anything up with, Id like to try my stradic 4000 out on snapper and triggers and what not but I want a lean mean bottom machine as well for when youre loading the cooler.

    After some research I really like the way the baja looks and the Avet 30w is WAAAYYYY out of the question but great looking reel.
  • YaksquatchYaksquatch Posts: 499 Officer
    Avet SX, MX, and/or JX would get my vote. They're small, lightweight, surprisingly powerful, lots of drag and line capacity for only $150-250 (depending on model). They're VERY tolerant of abuse and incredibly simple on the inside, you can do most of the servicing yourself. My SX and JX get SOAKED all the time on my kayak and still keep kicking strong even if I forget to wash em off after.

    Good luck,
    Alex
  • monoxidemonoxide Posts: 1,094 Officer
    the tlds are good little reels. i have a 25 and i love it. if you want a good lever drag that wont break the bank go for them. i would upgrade to the carbon fiber drag washer tho.
    ted.gif
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  • JesseJamesJesseJames Posts: 2,408 Captain
    The TLD is more of a trolling reel than a bottom reel. If you want to stay with Shimano look at the Torium. They have a high retrieve ratio which is nice if you're fishing in deeper water. Prices are reasonable on them too. I've heard some complaints about the internal mechanisms not being able to hold up to bottom fishing but we have several that have handled grouper over 30lbs and AJ's over 50lbs with no issues...The Penn Baja Special is another awesome bottom reel as well.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    copoutfishing.com
  • monoxidemonoxide Posts: 1,094 Officer
    i dont like a high gear ratio when grouper fishing. i like the low gear for pulling them out of the rocks.
    ted.gif
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  • rapchizzlerapchizzle Posts: 104 Deckhand
    I'm a big fan of the Avets, I got one a couple months ago and it's a sweeeeeeeet reel! They're solid and durable and if you take care iof them, it seems they'll last forever.

    As far as the Senators go, I've fished with the 6/0s a bit and have not been terribly impressed with the drag. I had the drag on a brand new reel slip on me like crazy under a heavy load a few times. I'd have it tightened down and ahalf a minute later, it felt like it was backed down all the way even though the star had not been touched. I'd tighten it up a 1/8 turn and it's be back to the correct strength but after another minute, it'd loosen up again. Perhaps it had too much grease on the washers or something, but I feel it should have been acting like that as it was brand new.

    I also looked at the Toriums and they seemed alright for the money, I just kept reading everywhere online that the drags were terrible and needed to be upgraded to last and work well. It seems like a good, inexpensive way to go and if you upgrade the drag washers you'd have a solid reel.
  • capthappycapthappy Posts: 2 Greenhorn
    if you don't mind spending a little more you might find a really good deal on an used accurate reel on E-bay just happen to see a 665H for $210 on a buy it now. gives you a great reel for a a reasonable price. just my my opinion :full
  • BRosinusBRosinus Posts: 43 Deckhand
    IMO....Accurate is the best reel for the job. I just got a BX2-500 recently, and I have to say that I have fished with a lot of "big" reels, but this Accurate is unbelieveable.
    logo_pursuit.gif
  • GermGerm Posts: 1,704 Captain
    I have a tld for a bottom setup. I like it, it works, but I wouldnt do lever drag for bottom fishing. When the bite is good sometimes theres very little time before you bait hits the bottom and you click the lever up and by that time a fish could have already hit and ran with it.
  • rookiemistakerookiemistake Posts: 1,176 Officer
    penn baja is the best there is for the money.Its Not your everyday penn senator.Bad *** is all i can say.spool with momoi diamond and some good leader and theres nothing it cant stop.
  • dt-fishingdt-fishing Posts: 157 Deckhand
    Penn baja special all the way, great grouper/snapper reel. Only sub $250 reel I ever suggest everything else will not last the same. The only other reel I would consider would be the saltist super torque, but even this one won't stand many seasons of abuse.
  • rookiemistakerookiemistake Posts: 1,176 Officer
    saltist is good( i have one for jigging ) but for dedicated grouper digger the baja has double dogs.usually you have the drag locked down and need to move the fish quick for the first 10-15 feet.saltist only has ar bearing.good for maybe 17-20lbs of drag.
  • TuckerTucker Posts: 126 Officer
    Thanks guys for all the advice, Ill keep my eye on ebay when I get the extra cash and look at the bajas a little more.
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