Rec v. Comm - change quotas?

limitlesslimitless Posts: 630 Officer

Please read the article below from The Fishing Wire and consider contacting the Governor, your Congressional Representative, US Senator, and your state Representative and Senator to urge them to make sure that the US Comptroller General considers the dramatic impact of recreational versus commercial fishing on the economy of the state of Florida.  Recent studies show that that the value of recreational fishing is almost 10 times greater than commercial fishing.

Is It Finally Time to Re-Examine How We Divvy Up the Catch Between Recreational and Commercial Fishing?

Today’s allocations are still based on data that is decades old

Divvying up the total catch of a fish stock between recreational and commercial fisheries is arguably the most difficult job for federal fisheries managers.

These allocations are generally set in percentages, as in 51 percent of the Gulf of Mexico red snapper stock is allocated to commercial fishing and 49 percent to recreational fishing. But these percentages are often based on catch data that is decades old.

Even when updated data shows a reallocation may be needed to reflect current catch rates or maximize the cultural and economic value of a fishery, regional management councils are slow to use that data. Sometimes they reject efforts to reallocate a fishery because of political pressure or objections from the sector that stands to lose some of its historic allocation.

Fortunately, recent policy advancements may support a fresh look at allocations. Here’s what happened.

The Timeline

2014

The Commission on Saltwater Recreational Fishing Management—an expert panel of state and federal agency administrators, researchers, industry representatives, and economists that is also known as the Morris-Deal Commission—recommends in its landmark report that allocations should be examined and reconfigured “for the greatest benefit of the nation.”

July 2016

NOAA Fisheries releases a “Fisheries Allocation Review Policy” that guides regional fishery management councils in determining how and when to examine allocations. Since the release of this document, the South Atlantic Fishery Management Council and the Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council have worked to develop criteria and timeframes by which allocations will be examined.

December 31, 2018

President Trump signs the Modernizing Recreational Fisheries Management Act of 2018 (S. 1520), a bill that was developed with support from and in consultation with the TRCP, Coastal Conservation Association, American Sportfishing Association, Center for Sportfishing Policy, National Marine Manufacturers Association, Yamaha, Recreational Fishing Alliance, and many others.

This bill requires the Comptroller General of the United States to conduct a study in the South Atlantic and Gulf of Mexico within one year to:

  • Recommend criteria—including economic, ecological, conservation, and social factors—that could be used for allocating/reallocating fishing privileges in a mixed-use fishery.
  • Identify sources of information that could reasonably support the use of the above criteria.
  • Assess the budgetary requirements for performing periodic allocation decisions in both councils.
  • Develop recommendations of procedures for allocation reviews and potential adjustments in allocation.

The bill also requires the Comptroller General to consult with NOAA, the applicable Councils and their Science and Statistical Committees, applicable state fisheries management commissions, and the recreational, commercial, and charter fishing sectors in conducting the required study.

The TRCP and its partners have worked with the Government Accountability Office and with the councils to help establish allocation criteria and ensure that future guidance documents include specific instructions for councils to help break the impasse on examining allocations.

Soon, anglers may get even more of a fair shake, and we can all stop living in the past.


The Snook & Gamefish Foundation is now the Angler Action Program: http://angleractionfoundation.com/  Dedicated to Conservation and Education.  Please check us out.

Angler Action Program: IAngler app trip log on your phone

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Replies

  • tarponbro1tarponbro1 jacksonvillePosts: 212 Deckhand
    Please read my post on this subject in the Keys General Fishing section. I don't know how to post in more than one section. I'm basically computer illiterate. Can you tell that? No smart aleck responses. please!!
  • CaptainBlyCaptainBly Posts: 2,106 Captain
    In Loving Memory of James Zielske, January 19, 1957-July 5, 2013
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 10,154 AG
    mods please move this to confron
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 12,655 AG
    Please read my post on this subject in the Keys General Fishing section. I don't know how to post in more than one section. I'm basically computer illiterate. Can you tell that? No smart aleck responses. please!!
    Here's your post:
    tarponbro1 said:
    I would like to see a tag system used for recreational and charter fishermen who fish for red snapper and perhaps grouper. Charter boats get  to purchase a certain amount of tags to use each year and recreational fishermen buy tags also. The recreational fishermen can also use their tags on a charter boat rip. For instance, the charter boat issues one tag per day for each fisherman but the fisherman could use up to 2 more tags of his/her own per day on the trip, up to a two day limit. Also, keep the red snapper season open for a substantially longer period of time. I would also like to see a moderate increase of the red snapper quota for commercial hook and line/bandit fishermen. Let's be fair to both sides here.  It seems the red snapper numbers have increased enough to allow a relaxation of the length of season and perhaps daily limits. A slot limit could also be used. Let's say you get a few trophy tags for fish larger than the slot. Anyway, this is just my two cents worth. Is it realistic? That's the big question.

  • harbisonharbison Posts: 3,395 Captain
    Some kind of tag system could take the guess-work out of Red Snapper numbers. 
    Think we could keep BIG  $$$  out of it? 
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 10,154 AG
    who is big $$$?

    wasn't long ago you were espousing that Darden and Walmart were gonna buy up all the catch shares, hasn't happened.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • Paul_APaul_A FloridaPosts: 4 Greenhorn
    Unless and until recreational fisherman have realistic year round quotas there should be no commercial fishing. 

    The people who have made the investment in the hobby should be the first ones to benefit from increased quota. This way the greatest number of people can utilize the resource.

    The commies would like you to believe commercial fishing feeds the people but the people who can afford to buy ars at the market are the same people who can afford to own a boat.
  • harbisonharbison Posts: 3,395 Captain
    edited July 24 #9
    "Unless and until recreational fisherman have realistic year round quotas there should be no commercial fishing. The people who have made the investment in the hobby should be the first ones to benefit from increased quota. This way the greatest number of people can utilize the resource"   Absolutely! 

    who is big $$$?   
    Those who sit behind a desk; buy & see IFQ's, and never wet a line. 

    wasn't long ago you were espousing that Darden and Walmart were gonna buy up all the catch shares, hasn't happened.
    You said it.. NOT ME!
      Have a nice day!
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 10,154 AG
    Paul_A said:
    Unless and until recreational fisherman have realistic year round quotas there should be no commercial fishing. 

    The people who have made the investment in the hobby should be the first ones to benefit from increased quota. This way the greatest number of people can utilize the resource.

    The commies would like you to believe commercial fishing feeds the people but the people who can afford to buy ars at the market are the same people who can afford to own a boat.
    y'all did benefit from increased quota on ARS,,,

    so unless you own a boat you shouldn't eat fish?

    I own a couple of boats but I still buy grouper, my time is way more valuable than to spend a day fishing.

    I'd rather hunt or mess with my dogs and then buy some fish for dinner.




    \



    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • Paul_APaul_A FloridaPosts: 4 Greenhorn
    ANUMBER1 said:
    Paul_A said:
    Unless and until recreational fisherman have realistic year round quotas there should be no commercial fishing. 

    The people who have made the investment in the hobby should be the first ones to benefit from increased quota. This way the greatest number of people can utilize the resource.

    The commies would like you to believe commercial fishing feeds the people but the people who can afford to buy ars at the market are the same people who can afford to own a boat.
    y'all did benefit from increased quota on ARS,,,

    so unless you own a boat you shouldn't eat fish?

    I own a couple of boats but I still buy grouper, my time is way more valuable than to spend a day fishing.

    I'd rather hunt or mess with my dogs and then buy some fish for dinner.



    Yes, the people who spend the money to catch the fish should get the first/most shot at the fish.

    I take it you bird hunt. I don't. I want wild birds in my table.

    How about if the government makes it so I get to buy wild birds year round and you get 2 weeks a year to hunt wild birds...

    Sound fair?



  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 10,154 AG
    sure and you really think you spend the money to catch fish?
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 12,655 AG
    edited July 25 #13
    harbison said:
    >wasn't long ago you were espousing that Darden and Walmart were gonna buy up all the catch shares, hasn't happened.

    You said it.. NOT ME!
    What you said was that we were all going to have to buy catch shares at Walmart.
    Of course, that hasn't happened despite your (aped) predictions to the contrary.
    Remember this, Bob?
    I do, and so does Art....Mike

  • retiredviejoretiredviejo San PedroPosts: 274 Deckhand
    Paul_A said:
    ANUMBER1 said:
    Paul_A said:
    Unless and until recreational fisherman have realistic year round quotas there should be no commercial fishing. 

    The people who have made the investment in the hobby should be the first ones to benefit from increased quota. This way the greatest number of people can utilize the resource.

    The commies would like you to believe commercial fishing feeds the people but the people who can afford to buy ars at the market are the same people who can afford to own a boat.
    y'all did benefit from increased quota on ARS,,,

    so unless you own a boat you shouldn't eat fish?

    I own a couple of boats but I still buy grouper, my time is way more valuable than to spend a day fishing.

    I'd rather hunt or mess with my dogs and then buy some fish for dinner.



    Yes, the people who spend the money to catch the fish should get the first/most shot at the fish.

    I take it you bird hunt. I don't. I want wild birds in my table.

    How about if the government makes it so I get to buy wild birds year round and you get 2 weeks a year to hunt wild birds...

    Sound fair?



    You're arguing with Number1, a self proclaimed mathematician and economist, who feels blessed to pillage and pilfer from public property, for profit, at the horrible expense of two million people who PAY dearly just enjoy the same public resource recreationally.

    You will never win an argument with narcissistic self annointed blessed individuals who's sense of entitlement exceeds any other's. 

    The same types who run dogs all over land that doesn't belong to them, claiming ignorance of property lines, and who would beat this same dogs to death in a fit of rage the day commercial bird hunting was allowed in Florida on a scale that put the recreational hunter at a severe disadvantage. 

    I'm fact, I'm proposing, in honor of Number1, any and all birds should be allowed to be commercially harvested on any public lands in Florida starting tomorrow. Put quail and dove at the top of the list. All commercial hunting for birds shall take precedence over any recreational hunting, until science can determine whether recreational hunting should even be allowed. 

  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 10,154 AG
    lol that's funny even coming from you...

    Good Job!
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • Mackeral SnatcherMackeral Snatcher Posts: 10,862 AG
    **** art, what did you do to pizz him off? :)
    THERE SHOULD BE NO COMMERCIAL FISHING ALLOWED FOR ANY SPECIES THAT IS CONSIDERED OVERFISHED.
  • Mackeral SnatcherMackeral Snatcher Posts: 10,862 AG
    Really??? You can't say d a m n?
    ****?
    THERE SHOULD BE NO COMMERCIAL FISHING ALLOWED FOR ANY SPECIES THAT IS CONSIDERED OVERFISHED.
  • harbisonharbison Posts: 3,395 Captain
    Tarp... Looks like you follow every word I say, take it out of content, an use to discredit. 
    Sorry but I am not buying whatever it is you are trying to sell. 
    have a nice day! 
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 12,655 AG
    edited July 26 #19
    Bob,

    That was your thread, your words and your image on your photobucket account.  It took all of a minute to search and find it.

    Don't be upset when I call your BS, and I'm not selling anything except the truth.

    Perhaps if you would stop peddling conspiracy theories then denying you did it, nobody would call you on it.

    Just an idea from your pal....Mike
  • harbisonharbison Posts: 3,395 Captain
    edited July 26 #20
    " I call your BS "   NICE!   
    Ever wonder how we the vast majority are so easily controlled by the few? 
    We are out own worst enemies! 
    We do not need NOAA, EDF, Pew, Walton Foundation, or anyone else to destroy what should be ours... We can do that all by ourselves! 


  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 12,655 AG
    edited July 26 #21
    I'm not controlled by anyone, Bob.  Certainly not you.  Certainly not the RFA or FRA, whose words you ape.  I follow the truth wherever it goes, like it or not.  If you would do the same, we'd get along just fine.  Just be honest and own it.  Admit your mistake and move on.  I, for one, would respect you a hell of a lot more if you did -- not that you're in it for my respect.  Take care....Mike
  • harbisonharbison Posts: 3,395 Captain
    edited July 26 #22
    The truth...  This is NO 'conspiracy theory' THIS IS FACT! 

    "EDF gathered tens of millions of dollars in grant funding to promote catch shares and campaigned relentlessly on behalf of the fisheries management regimen which involves transforming common wild resources into tradeable, allocated shares."

    Sorry but I do not think that what belongs to the people should be bought & sold. That is what Bob stands for! 
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 12,655 AG
    edited July 26 #23
    Nobody is disputing that fact, Bob.  However, we were talking about your prediction about having to buy catch shares from Walmart.  You know, the one you denied making.

    Just own it.  We're all wrong from time to time.  Nothing wrong with that.  We are all human, after all. 

    A man who admits his mistake and moves on earns my respect.  Sadly, you just seem to be changing the subject.


  • harbisonharbison Posts: 3,395 Captain
    edited July 26 #24

    "just own it."  Absolutely!   I will ALWAYS fight for an open fishery for one and all. 

    And NEVER for...

    suppressing participation

     catch shares per...


    "they (catch shared) are an inherently inappropriate tool for recreational-only and mixed-sector fisheries. In fisheries where there is a large and growing recreational sector, exclusive fishing rights proposals maximize benefits to the commercial fishing industry while ignoring and ultimately suppressing participation and the beneficial economic impacts of recreational fishing."

    "concentrated in the hands with the deepest pockets." 

    The $1.3 billion Walton Family Foundation, started in 1987 by Wal-Mart's founders, Sam and Helen Walton, and directed now by the second and third generation of Waltons, has been underwriting EDF's successful effort to replace the nation's mostly small-business, owner-operated fishing industry with a model that works like a commodities market, with fishermen's "shares" of an allotted catch traded and potentially concentrated in the hands with the deepest pockets.
    In the four years through 2010, EDF had been granted more than $27 million by the Walton Family Foundation. In all  EDF has obtained more than $30 million in grant dollars from pro-catch share interests — including the Walton Foundation, founded by Wal-Mart heirs — to spearhead the campaign for catch shares... 
    'to spearhead the campaign for catch shares'... Wal-Mart is all about $$$... All about  "concentrated in the hands with the deepest pockets." 
    Sorry but I do not think that what belongs to the people should be bought & sold by those with the deepest pockets.
    "just own it."  Absolutely!   That is what Bob stands for! 
     
     
     

     


     

     

     

     

  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 12,655 AG
    There's nothing factual about suggesting that catch shares have concentrated in the hands of the deepest pockets.
    There's nothing factual about your prediction that it was the goal of the Walton foundation to sell catch shares to the public.

    The first is a misrepresentation at best and a lie at worst.
    The second was conspiracy theory then and wrong now.

    We all make mistakes, Bob.  Own yours.

    Good night.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 10,154 AG
    Thank you Mike, we don't always agree  but he did say it...
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • harbisonharbison Posts: 3,395 Captain
    edited July 26 #27
    This is exactly what was said:
    "The Walton Foundation, Walmart, has donated multi-thousands of dollars towards the realization of catch shares. Walmart is all about profit. Walmart is predicted to make millions by selling us, the American people, back OUR fish."

    Note the word 'predicted.'  It can, will, happen only if we allow it to happen!


    "The first is a misrepresentation at best and a lie at worst."

    "The second was conspiracy theory then and wrong now."

    WOW!   An EDF/NOAA/ Walmart dream come true! 
    I said,  posted, and will stand by this...

    Because SOME of us have been fighting the good fight catch shares has not hit Walmart... YET!
    Denial and fighting among ourselves will assure We Sell FISH TAGS is in our future. 
    That's it!  I have said what needed to be said. To say anything more would be counterproductive. With that I leave it to those who would rather fight one another than fight for our fishery. Sorry but divide & conquer is just not Bob! 
  • tarponbro1tarponbro1 jacksonvillePosts: 212 Deckhand
    I think hook and line commercial fishermen have a right to catch red snapper just like recreational fishermen do. I was talking to a couple of commercial guys in Jacksonville a few years ago and they told me they had a 150 lb. quota of red snapper per trip, which to me might pay for fuel and maybe bait. Did this exist and does it still exist? I'm cool with that, btw. Red snapper should be closed for both commercial and recreational fishermen during spawning season if the fish don't spawn for months at a time. Last but not least are there still longlines and/or fish traps allowed in the Gulf of Mexico or the USA's southeastern portion of the Atlantic ocean?
  • tarponbro1tarponbro1 jacksonvillePosts: 212 Deckhand
    One reason I like the concept of tags is that fishermen could keep more than one fish - perhaps as many as 4 or 5 per day until they used up their tags. They might also be allowed to buy more tags for the year up to a certain number.  Doing it this way might also spread out the pressure on the fish if a longer season is allowed. Yes, Walmart would sell tags because they also sell fising licenses. If there was a longer season I would probably go on at least two trips per season instead of the one I just went on. I don't think I need to go on, or can afford to go on, more than one trip in two months, although I'm going to try to go on both the Gulfstar and the Yankee Capts next June/ July..  I like fishing for red snapper because they tend to be bigger fish than mangroves so if I only catch a couple I'll bring home plenty of fish to eat. On the trip I just went on I caught more red snapper than mangroves because the mangrove snapper fishing was slow for some reason. I caught more than my limit of red snapper but only caught one mangrove which surprised me. Anyway, I hope the red snapper season will be lengthened in the near future and recreational fishermen will be able to keep at least two red snapper per day both on the Gulf and Atlantic waters.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 10,154 AG
    no fish traps in the GOM since 2007. longer in the SA.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • gandrfabgandrfab Posts: 20,388 AG
    Paul_A said:
    Unless and until recreational fisherman have realistic year round quotas there should be no commercial fishing. 

    The people who have made the investment in the hobby should be the first ones to benefit from increased quota. This way the greatest number of people can utilize the resource.

    The commies would like you to believe commercial fishing feeds the people but the people who can afford to buy ars at the market are the same people who can afford to own a boat.
    The greater number of people don't own boats or fish. If they are going to have snapper they have to buy it at the fish market.

    :BUNNY gestapo

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