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Can I be sickened and outraged at the same time?

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  • Mister-JrMister-Jr Posts: 27,757 AG
    Mister-Jr said:
    dave44 said:
    Efforts to convert our justice system from reactive to proactive diminishes everyone’s rights.
        I believe most Americans want to be innocent until proven guilty and enjoy the freedoms that affords them.
    Do you consider speed limits proactive?  Seat belt laws? 
    How often do you break the speed limit?
    It's hard to do in South Fl, with traffic congestion, so seldom. 
    Vote for the other candidate
  • riverdiverriverdiver Posts: 2,032 Captain
    Mister-Jr said:
    dave44 said:
    Mister-Jr said:
    Does the Constitution afford any rights to the five people that were murdered? 
    Yes. 
       This ignorant question was so unnecessary. 
       Or maybe you propose that every single citizen should be afforded an armed guard to protect them against any potential assault? 
    Actually, my only thought is that we should make it harder for people to own guns.  


    There's a lot of things that need to be looked at.

    For starters, as a population we need to focus on the social issues that help form socio/psychopaths. The bad thing about looking at that, is people want to run away from the issues. Single parent households, abuse, and physical/psychological trauma are similarities. Whether it's this guy, a 16 year old gangbanger on the streets of Chicago, the guy who shot up Parkland, Orlando night club, etc, there are indicators present that give advance warning that the person has issues. Once again, the issues get ignored.

    In shooting after shooting, there seems to be a disturbing trend that mental health and LEO's had prior knowledge and contact with the shooter, yet they somehow are still able to legally purchase guns. To make matters worse, this particular guy was somehow able to gain some sort of employment at a Correctional Facility...yet was known to LEO's, known to Mental Health, and his girlfriend seemingly was telling everyone who would listen that he was nuts. Yet he was still able (from my understanding) to legally purchase his pistol.

    There are hundreds of millions of guns in this country. There are somewhere around 320 million people in this country. Only a tiny fraction of the guns in this country are used in shootings. Only a tiny percentage of the population is involved in shootings.

    There are laws and policies already present to combat the issue. I find it disturbing that in many cases the shooters are legally buying guns AFTER they've been interviewed by LEO's and identified by Mental Health...this is the first issue that has to be fixed. Adding more laws on aren't going to help when LEO's had prior contact with many of these guys, it's inexcusable that it's happening.

    As for other shootings...take Chicago as an example. The vast majority of the shootings there take place in a relatively small section of Chi Town...but the police and politicians don't have the intestinal fortitude to combat the problem. Instead of dealing with the situation directly and opening police precincts in those high crime areas to flood the streets with LEO's, they ignore the issue, open up midnight basketball leagues, and give financial grants to race hustlers who don't want the problem fixed...that would cut off their money flow.

    It's sad the five women in the bank were killed...they were let down by the system. Likewise, there were likely more than 5 people shot last night in Chicago...likely more than 5 will be shot tonight. People are outraged by the shooting in the bank, they'll be following it in the news...the people shot this weekend in Chicago are merely a statistic their families.

    I don't have all of the answers, clearly what we're doing isn't working. But taking away rights from the overwhelming majority of the US population to deal with an infinitesimally small minority of the population isn't the right answer.


  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 6,662 Admiral
    Just checking in do we have a list folks that mister has convinced?  


    “When you're good at something, you'll tell everyone. When you're great at something, they'll tell you.”

    -Walter Payton
  • Mister-JrMister-Jr Posts: 27,757 AG
    Forty-nine dead at the Pulse nightclub in Orlando. Seventeen at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High in Parkland. Five in the baggage-claim area at the Fort Lauderdale airport. Five more at an RV awning factory in Orlando. Another five wounded, two killed at a Tallahassee yoga studio. Two more at a video-game tournament in Jacksonville.

    Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

    https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/carl-hiaasen/article225103925.html#navlink=SecList
    Vote for the other candidate
  • dave44dave44 Posts: 11,751 AG
    Sounds like you should carry if you if you live in Florida, or Chicago.
      Mrs. Jr P said it’s very dangerous.
  • NewberryJeffNewberryJeff Posts: 7,447 Admiral
    Mister-Jr said:
    Forty-nine dead at the Pulse nightclub in Orlando. Seventeen at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High in Parkland. Five in the baggage-claim area at the Fort Lauderdale airport. Five more at an RV awning factory in Orlando. Another five wounded, two killed at a Tallahassee yoga studio. Two more at a video-game tournament in Jacksonville.

    Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

    https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/carl-hiaasen/article225103925.html#navlink=SecList
    Hasn't there been some gun control legislation enacted to stop these tragedies?  
    Perhaps if we bump the minimum age up to 22 and outlaw another piece of plastic, you'll no longer be burdened with sickness and outrage.

  • johnpowersjohnpowers BayPosts: 2,898 Captain
    What stands out in this incident is the fact that this killer will be spending years in the court system enriching many lawyers and psychologist. Costing the taxpayers millions of dollars. 
     In a sane world he would be given a fair and speedy trial and then either executed(preferable) or buried in a prison cell and forgotten.
  • GA FinGA Fin Posts: 8,956 Admiral
    GA Fin said:

    There should be a minimum net worth set before you have voting rights. You should have skin in the game.

    Those with voting rights should then be part of the discussion.

    Stupid idea.  If you are subject to the laws of the land you have skin in the game.

    Tourists are "subject to the laws of the land". Using your opinion as a guide, they have skin in the game and should be able to vote.
    Straight white male living a life of privilege and proud of it.


    "The greatest pleasure is to vanquish your enemies and chase them before you, to rob them of their wealth and see those dear to them bathed in tears, to ride their horses and clasp to your bosom their wives and daughters."
  • GA FinGA Fin Posts: 8,956 Admiral
    Mister-Jr said:
    Surprisingly (or not)  

     https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm

    California and New York, bastions of liberalism, do very well.  Likely because of stricter gun laws. 

     


     
     

    Are you being obtuse? Are you familiar with the city of Chicago?
    Straight white male living a life of privilege and proud of it.


    "The greatest pleasure is to vanquish your enemies and chase them before you, to rob them of their wealth and see those dear to them bathed in tears, to ride their horses and clasp to your bosom their wives and daughters."
  • bigfinn35bigfinn35 Sarasota/VenicePosts: 661 Officer
    GA Fin said:
    Mister-Jr said:
    Surprisingly (or not)  

     https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm

    California and New York, bastions of liberalism, do very well.  Likely because of stricter gun laws. 

     


     
     

    Are you being obtuse? Are you familiar with the city of Chicago?
    Hyper-urban environments with high population density are outliers to the norm. Ignoring that (particularly in the 3rd-largest city in the US) is obtuse.
    Paddle faster, I hear banjo music.
  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 6,662 Admiral
    Mister-Jr said:
    Like making gun thread after gun thread after gun thread?


    “When you're good at something, you'll tell everyone. When you're great at something, they'll tell you.”

    -Walter Payton
  • Bimini TwistedBimini Twisted Posts: 11,444 AG
    The response to Sandy Hook proved that as a society we care more about playing with guns than our children's lives.

    Enjoy your guns, but spare the rest of us your feigned concern.
  • AaronCannonAaronCannon Northwest ArkansasPosts: 871 Officer
    edited January 2019 #134
    Sandy hook proved that some people are so crazy, they will murder their mother to get a gun, so i dont think another law wouldve stopped him.
    A gun in a classroom wouldve had a chance.
    The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.
    Jeff Cooper
  • Mister-JrMister-Jr Posts: 27,757 AG
    Sandy hook proved that some people are so crazy, they will murder their mother to get a gun, so i dont think another law wouldve stopped him.
    A gun in a classroom wouldve had a chance.
    Teachers have made it clear, they are not going to act as LEOs.  
    Vote for the other candidate
  • AaronCannonAaronCannon Northwest ArkansasPosts: 871 Officer
    edited January 2019 #136
    Other Teachers have also made it clear they wished their cc rights could be used at school. Dont have to be LEOs, just unruly sheep.
    The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.
    Jeff Cooper
  • Mister-JrMister-Jr Posts: 27,757 AG
    Other Teachers have also made it clear they wished their cc rights could be used at school. Dont have to be LEOs, just unruly sheep.
    It's cheaper and safer to have LEOs protecting schools.  
    Vote for the other candidate
  • AaronCannonAaronCannon Northwest ArkansasPosts: 871 Officer
    Wont find much opposition to better protected schools.
    Just dont try and use fences, right?
    The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.
    Jeff Cooper
  • FlatsMatt96FlatsMatt96 ChuluotaPosts: 1,358 Officer
    All im saying is I am not giving up my rights. I would rather die than give an inch. 
    No one is threatening to take your rights. We are all aware about your stance on your rights and your guns. But when people admit to considering taking an illegal deer out of season with an unethical kill. Some wonder if you deserve the rights you were given. And if you are considering a career in the fwc, posts like this on social media may make the other candidate more desirable 
    I think you missed the entire point of the thread. Maybe you should reread the thread. I at no point was ever actually considering it. I clearly stated multiple times I could never poach. So reread that. 
    If youre going to burn a bridge, dont just burn it, use C4 and make a statement. 
  • Bimini TwistedBimini Twisted Posts: 11,444 AG
    Sandy hook proved that some people are so crazy, they will murder their mother to get a gun, so i dont think another law wouldve stopped him.
    A gun in a classroom wouldve had a chance.
    We'll never know because of those that have so little regard for dead children that they have quashed any debate or effort to study or mitigate the problem.
  • stc1993stc1993 Albany, GA Carrabelle, FLPosts: 7,623 Admiral
    I was going to work one morning around 7:45.  I saw 2 pitbulls loose about a block away from a school.  I knew there was no fence around that school.  

    I thought about it & called 911 to let them know about the dogs being so close to the school & it didn't have a fence.

    It wasn't maybe 2 weeks later they were out putting a fence up around the school. 

    I don't really know if my call made a difference or not, but the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 6,662 Admiral
    edited January 2019 #142
    Sandy hook proved that some people are so crazy, they will murder their mother to get a gun, so i dont think another law wouldve stopped him.
    A gun in a classroom wouldve had a chance.
    We'll never know because of those that have so little regard for dead children that they have quashed any debate or effort to study or mitigate the problem.
    To be fair the problem with Sandy hook was the mom.  Look Adam lanza reportedly had all kinds of extreme mental issues.  He don't like being touched, he walked sideways down the hallway with his back against the lockers and much more.  So what does the mother do?  She teaches and trains the little fruitcake to be a sharp shooter and keeps her house stocked like a military depot.  If she weren't dead I would love to ask her **** was she thinking.  Guns for the clearly mental, yeah that is a great idea.


    “When you're good at something, you'll tell everyone. When you're great at something, they'll tell you.”

    -Walter Payton
  • Mister-JrMister-Jr Posts: 27,757 AG
    kellercl said:
    Sandy hook proved that some people are so crazy, they will murder their mother to get a gun, so i dont think another law wouldve stopped him.
    A gun in a classroom wouldve had a chance.
    We'll never know because of those that have so little regard for dead children that they have quashed any debate or effort to study or mitigate the problem.
    To be fair the problem with Sandy hook was the mom.  Look Adam lanza reportedly had all kinds of extreme mental issues.  He don't like being touched, he walked sideways down the hallway with his back against the lockers and much more.  So what does the mother do?  She teaches and trains the little fruitcake to be a sharp shooter and keeps her house stocked like a military depot.  If she weren't dead I would love to ask her **** was she thinking.  Guns for the clearly mental, yeah that is a great idea.
    Who do you think paid the damages?  Medical bills, funeral expenses, attorney fees, lawsuits? 
    Vote for the other candidate
  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 6,662 Admiral
    No idea, nor do I get your point.  My point is you can't blame guns when people like her make very stupid decisions.  


    “When you're good at something, you'll tell everyone. When you're great at something, they'll tell you.”

    -Walter Payton
  • Mister-JrMister-Jr Posts: 27,757 AG
    kellercl said:
    No idea, nor do I get your point.  My point is you can't blame guns when people like her make very stupid decisions.  
    The Las Vegas shooting is estimated to cost $1 billion.  All those costs are passed on to the public.  Added to the human cost of misery, pain, suffering and I find almost inconceivable some take such a not my problem attitude.

    Some kid in Louisiana killed five people yesterday, oh well.
     


    Vote for the other candidate
  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 6,662 Admiral
    Which is irrelevant to the point.  Parkland, Colorado movie theater, Sandy Hook and the recent  bank shooter...  they all showed signs, and we did nothing.  That is the point.  


    “When you're good at something, you'll tell everyone. When you're great at something, they'll tell you.”

    -Walter Payton
  • AaronCannonAaronCannon Northwest ArkansasPosts: 871 Officer
    Sandy hook proved that some people are so crazy, they will murder their mother to get a gun, so i dont think another law wouldve stopped him.
    A gun in a classroom wouldve had a chance.
    We'll never know because of those that have so little regard for dead children that they have quashed any debate or effort to study or mitigate the problem.
    If the debate always starts with,
    "give me your stuff, because this guy over here misused something that looks like your stuff."
    Its not going to go over well.
    Then tell us how we like to see murdered kids, thatll lower the discussion temp for sure.



    The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.
    Jeff Cooper
  • Bimini TwistedBimini Twisted Posts: 11,444 AG
    A certain segment of our population has used all their considerable political resources to ensure that there are no hearings, or studies, or any action at all that may help mitigate the problem and perhaps save lives.

    That is a fact.
  • Mister-JrMister-Jr Posts: 27,757 AG
    kellercl said:
    Which is irrelevant to the point.  Parkland, Colorado movie theater, Sandy Hook and the recent  bank shooter...  they all showed signs, and we did nothing.  That is the point.  
    Sure we did, we let them have guns.  Mass killing always involves one thing, a firearm.
    Vote for the other candidate
  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 6,662 Admiral
    edited January 2019 #150
    Point being we shouldn't punish those who demonstrate responsibility.  We should target the mentally ill.  Most (proposed) regulations sweep broadly and do not dismcrimate between the two above mentioned parties.


    “When you're good at something, you'll tell everyone. When you're great at something, they'll tell you.”

    -Walter Payton
  • dave44dave44 Posts: 11,751 AG
    kellercl said:
    Point being we shouldn't punish those who demonstrate responsibility.  We should target the mentally ill.  Most (proposed) regulations sweep broadly and do not dismcrimate between the two above mentioned parties.
    I’m not sure he is capable of understanding that concept. It seems most people that keep beating that horse want nothing more but complete submission.
        I believe they think everyone is a terrorist at heart. Maybe they are afraid of themselves the most?
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