Industrial wind farm decommissioned after only 20 years.

Mister-Jr

treemanjohn said:

Can we all just agree that they're a huge waste of money, unsustainable, and a terrible idea even though it's a feel good for some?

These are much better ideas.

Tarponator

Not at all.  Wind power is none of those things, John.  That wind farm paid for itself many times over,  didn't emit a single gram of CO2 into the environment, and is far more sustainable than any fossil fuel power plant.   That said, it's not the perfect solution or the only solution, but it certainly is and will continue to be part of the energy answer as the planet is forced to become less polluting.

But if by "feel good" you mean able to survive, then yes....for all of us!  

cadman

treemanjohn said:

Can we all just agree that they're a huge waste of money, unsustainable, and a terrible idea even though it's a feel good for some?

I doubt either of us know enough to say that. 

fins4me

None of the energy industrial segments should be subsidized. 

cadman

What should be subsidized?

rodz

Decommissioned and bird strikes I don't know about but as I've traveled through numerous European ports - these - are everywhere.  As a whole, they must be financially feasible. The size is enormous and the blades turn slowly from what I've observed.  The work boat below is who plants them at sea.  This particular port had dozens ready for installation - quite a busy operation.  The U.S. is definitely behind in this game.

pottydoc

Tarponator said:

The outrage is among those who see "green energy" and a downside (like having to replace something after 20 years) and don't really think.

I actually think they’re a good idea, in areas with enough constant wing for them to work. I also know that they’re not going to replace conventional sources of power. The birds are just a side thing that doesnt fit with their green image. Audubon and other green groups tacetly support bird kills because they don’t want to appear opposed to alternate energy sources. Their hypocritical position is the reason I brought it up. When I was in Bonaire earlier this year, I saw a good number of the windmills. One of the tour guides said they produce about 30% of their total electric needs. I don’t know if that’s true or not, but if it is, it’s pretty impressive. I did, however notice that several of them weren’t working.

pottydoc

Team Sabatage said:

pottydoc said:

Team Sabatage said:

pottydoc said:

Tarponator said:

How many is that?

According to Audubon, between 140,000-380,000 a year. That’s just the protected ones like condors, Golden eagles, and bald eagles. 

According to Audubon...Seeing how their own annual counts and reports to the US F&W Service estimate that there are a total of 463 Condors, 70,000 Bald Eagles and 39,000 golden Eagles in the lower 48, I highly doubt that 140,000 to 300,000 are killed by turbines each year.  I hunt under turbines in Western Wyoming.  I see no increase in dead birds from before the windmills existed to now and I don't see many dead birds at all.

Like I told Tarp, the number are easily verified by a bunch of sources. It’s not just bald eagles, condors and Golden’s. If you don’t believe that a pile of birds get killed by the windmills, you’re just ignoring facts. Do a search and read it for yourself. 

Come hunt with me and you can also search for yourself. that's a fact.  There is one particular Golden that is a pretty reliable sighting for the past 3 years, not dead yet.  Probably learned how to hunt around them.
I find it interesting that the whole conversation is now revolving around possible bird strikes instead of the whole 20 year decommission as in the headline.  Like I stated, we have Nuclear plants that didn't make it 3 years after their 20 year rebuild.  Where is the outrage?

The amount of birds killed is more than supported by facts. Just because you don’t see it, doesn’t support you position. But I’ll take you up on your invitation to hunt.

mplspug

I'm all for wind farms as long as I don't ever have to see one the rest of my life.  They are ugly and huge both the wind Mills and their footprint.

pottydoc

rodz said:

Decommissioned and bird strikes I don't know about but as I've traveled through numerous European ports - these - are everywhere.  As a whole, they must be financially feasible. The size is enormous and the blades turn slowly from what I've observed.  The work boat below is who plants them at sea.  This particular port had dozens ready for installation - quite a busy operation.  The U.S. is definitely behind in this game.

Rodz,  the blades are actually moving at about 100 mph at he tips. 

dave44

0 co2 emissions? Did they manufacture and build themselves? Are they going to tear themselves down? 
    The ones in West Texas are a real eyesore. On the south side of the big island in Hawaii they were falling apart years ago.
   It’s hard to imagine them lasting even 20 years around oceans.

kellercl

Denmark and Sweden are filled with wind generator.  Personally I never found them to be an eyesore.  To each their own I suppose. 

dave44

Beautiful 

Team Sabatage

dave44 said:

0 co2 emissions? Did they manufacture and build themselves? Are they going to tear themselves down? 
    The ones in West Texas are a real eyesore. On the south side of the big island in Hawaii they were falling apart years ago.
   It’s hard to imagine them lasting even 20 years around oceans.

Yet we put drilling rigs in the ocean that when they fail they spew millions of barrels of crude oil into the ocean.  These just fall over and become the next good amberjack stop.

Yes Potty Doc, but as was stated earlier, Audubon reports many times more raptors are killed by windmills than they report even exist in the entire United States.  When you can explain that to me you will have my attention as to the possibility.  Until then I have to go with the published reports and personal visual observation.  Which by the way, I see lots of game in those areas, just not many dead birds.  It's like Manatee with prop stripes, man and animal interface, animal usually loses.

dave44

You know what would look better than this?

 Hundreds of wind turbines.

dragon bait

dave44 said:

You know what would look better than this?

 Hundreds of wind turbines.

Or

kellercl

Denmark has a bunch in the middle of the water.  Folks claim the structure makes for good fishing.

Lostconch

Maybe not as efficient for commercial use but work well for private individuals. I know of an injection mold business that powers his whole plant with wind and solar. Those electric furnaces run 24/7. The island of Maui gets all of its electricity from wind. 

mplspug

Oil spills can be cleaned up.  Turbines are forever...or 20 years.

MRichardson

dave44 said:

You know what would look better than this?

 Hundreds of wind turbines.

meh, just put em 10 miles out

dave44

dragon bait said:

dave44 said:

You know what would look better than this?

 Hundreds of wind turbines.

Or

But I thought we were talking about electricity?
  How many oil fired generators are left?

pottydoc

Team Sabatage said:

dave44 said:

0 co2 emissions? Did they manufacture and build themselves? Are they going to tear themselves down? 
    The ones in West Texas are a real eyesore. On the south side of the big island in Hawaii they were falling apart years ago.
   It’s hard to imagine them lasting even 20 years around oceans.

Yet we put drilling rigs in the ocean that when they fail they spew millions of barrels of crude oil into the ocean.  These just fall over and become the next good amberjack stop.

Yes Potty Doc, but as was stated earlier, Audubon reports many times more raptors are killed by windmills than they report even exist in the entire United States.  When you can explain that to me you will have my attention as to the possibility.  Until then I have to go with the published reports and personal visual observation.  Which by the way, I see lots of game in those areas, just not many dead birds.  It's like Manatee with prop stripes, man and animal interface, animal usually loses.

Those are the same numbers of birds killed that the Smithsonian uses. Maybe you think they’re lying too? That number includes all birds, as Tarp pointed out, I was not correct in it just being federally protected ones. 

[email protected] Special

Fact from the last wind energy conference I was at.

Cats kill more birds than turbines in any given geographical area.

New turbines are 78% more efficient than 15 years ago, and cheaper to maintain

Energy independence take more than one approach to work. No shoe fits all sized.....

dragon bait

,dave44 said:

dragon bait said:

dave44 said:

You know what would look better than this?

 Hundreds of wind turbines.

Or

But I thought we were talking about electricity?
  How many oil fired generators are left?

I'm not sure about mainland U.S but I think 1/2 of Puerto Rico is still oil fired power plants

Tarponator

With respect to our 50 states here's a breakdown, and you will note oil is at the bottom of the list in terms of energy produced:

There are 1,793 natural gas-powered electricity plants in the United States. They generated 34 percent of the nation's electricity last year.

There are 400 coal-powered electric plants in the United States. They generated 30 percent of the nation's electricity last year.

There are 61 nuclear electric plants in the United States. They generated 20 percent of the nation’s electricity last year.

There are 1,444 hydroelectric plants in the United States. They generated 7 percent of the nation’s electricity last year.

There are 999 wind-powered electric plants in the United States. They generated 6 percent of the nation’s electricity last year.

There are 1,721 solar-powered electric plants in the United States. They generated 1 percent of the nation’s electricity last year.

There are 1,076 oil-powered electric plants in the United States. They generated just over half of 1 percent of the nation’s electricity last year.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/power-plants/?utm_term=.c452d177dd28

pottydoc

Theyre getting phased phased out slowly. Cyrstal River is changing to NG at the present time. It’ll take a while, but it’s getting worked on. It’s not like we can just shut them down. 

Turner River Terror

pottydoc said:

Theyre getting phased phased out slowly. Cyrstal River is changing to NG at the present time. It’ll take a while, but it’s getting worked on. It’s not like we can just shut them down. 

I watched them put in the pipe lines about  2 or 3 years ago..

MACD

" Exxon will buy 500 megawatts of wind and solar power in the Permian Basin, the fastest growing U.S. oil field. It is the largest ever renewable power contract signed by an oil company, according to Bloomberg NEF. "

Mister-Jr

MACD said:

" Exxon will buy 500 megawatts of wind and solar power in the Permian Basin, the fastest growing U.S. oil field. It is the largest ever renewable power contract signed by an oil company, according to Bloomberg NEF. "

Exxon, which was sued by investors who alleged the company downplayed risks of global warming, is turning to clean energy as it becomes cheap enough to compete with fossil fuels. The wind and solar farms are being built in a region where electricity demand is soaring as oil production grows.

cadman

Mister-Jr said:

MACD said:

" Exxon will buy 500 megawatts of wind and solar power in the Permian Basin, the fastest growing U.S. oil field. It is the largest ever renewable power contract signed by an oil company, according to Bloomberg NEF. "

Exxon, which was sued by investors who alleged the company downplayed risks of global warming, is turning to clean energy as it becomes cheap enough to compete with fossil fuels. The wind and solar farms are being built in a region where electricity demand is soaring as oil production grows.

All of the oil companies are turning to clean energy. They want to be around in 100 years. They will rely on oil for the next 50 years or more though and then be ready to sell whatever is next.