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Global cooling

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  • TarponatorTarponator Posts: 19,935 AG
    edited December 2018 #122
    kellercl said:
    I think the measurements are not an issue.  Thermometers aren't NMR or MS systems.  Calibration and ISO 17025 on thermometers is an easy lift.  As for global warming, the concept is sound.  However our direct measurement data set is small in comparison to age of the earth.  I also think knowing the direct results of global warming is an unknown given the multitude of variables.  As for background, I'm an instrumental chemist.  I've spent my entire career running gc, lc, ms, nmr, ir, etc.  I would like to think I know the difference between accuracy, precision, resolution and uncertainty.  It literally is exactly what I do for a living, 13 years and counting not including 6 years via university.  And yes, both accuracy and precision are regularly used terms.
    Thanks Keller.

    I agree wholeheartedly with your perspective as described above (and perhaps Homer might review your first sentence before insulting you by inference), and if truth be known I kind of chucked when I read Battery lecturing you on the topic of accuracy/calibration given your background.  

    Certainly reasonable people can argue about how much of an effect we're having on the global temperature, how normal or not normal it is, what to do about it, etc., but to deny that we are warming because of calibration issues (or accuracy/precision concerns) is simply ignorance speaking.

    Have a good weekend & thanks again....Mike

  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 13,008 AG
    edited December 2018 #123
    Where I got confused is resolution, accuracy and precision are tied to the instrument.  Uncertainty is tied to the analyte.  On a mass spectrometer phenthethyl alcohol, citronellol and ionone all have different uncertainty.  However the mass resolution, accuracy and precision doesn't change.  Uncertainty is also dependant on matrix, e.g. ethanol vs water vs pg.
    #Lead beakerhead specialist 

    "Soul of the mind, key to life's ether. Soul of the lost, withdrawn from its vessel. Let strength be granted, so the world might be mended. So the world might be mended."
  • TarponatorTarponator Posts: 19,935 AG
    I don't think you got confused at all, at least not this time.  ;)
  • jcbcpajcbcpa Posts: 2,631 Captain
    I don't think you got confused at all, at least not this time.  ;)
    He's sure confused me. Lol 

    "Winners take responsibility, losers blame others"

    Megyn Kelly

  • TarponatorTarponator Posts: 19,935 AG
    edited December 2018 #126
    None of those concepts should be foreign to anyone with a scientific background or education, JCBCPA.  That's not at all intended to be a hit or a judgement, but simply an observation and perhaps an explanation why some of us seem to be missing each other.  I'm sure there are topics that you (and every one of us here) could discuss that would confuse others!  :)
  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 13,008 AG
    None of those concepts should be foreign to anyone with a scientific background or education, JCBCPA.  That's not at all intended to be a hit or a judgement, but simply an observation and perhaps an explanation why some of us seem to be missing each other.  I'm sure there are topics that you (and every one of us) could discuss that would confuse us too!  :)
    Absolutely.  We all have our fields of expertise.  For instance I know nothing about mechanical things.  I can change oil in a car and that is pretty much it.  Diversity is expertise among the populous is a wonderful thing.
    #Lead beakerhead specialist 

    "Soul of the mind, key to life's ether. Soul of the lost, withdrawn from its vessel. Let strength be granted, so the world might be mended. So the world might be mended."
  • Sooo , If,n I wet my finger and stick it in the air...It's not even close to right.....losing..
    Killin and Grillin :grin
  • Gary SGary S Posts: 3,333 Captain
    TRT all you have know is fat girl for cold night and skinny girl for hot night.
  • sailfish2sailfish2 Posts: 4,321 Captain
    Hoping for better luck next time...... and got it.

    WINNING!
  • Mister-JrMister-Jr Posts: 29,948 AG
    Vote for the other candidate
  • HomerSimpsonHomerSimpson Posts: 6,573 Admiral
    kellercl said:
    I think the measurements are not an issue.  Thermometers aren't NMR or MS systems.  Calibration and ISO 17025 on thermometers is an easy lift.  As for global warming, the concept is sound.  However our direct measurement data set is small in comparison to age of the earth.  I also think knowing the direct results of global warming is an unknown given the multitude of variables.  
    tarp seems to think satellites read temperatures and then prove ground based thermometers (which don't need calibrating) are accurate.  This is pretty laughable and shows a gross misunderstanding of satellite temperature measurement capabilities

    It boils down to the data set, as you said and i've been saying.  Tarp doesn't agree with this either, but its much too small to really say anything other then it seems to be hotter now than 140 years ago.

    to link that to man made global warming/climate change then you are saying you could go back into the history of the earth, measured any 140 year period, and the temperature anonymity would be a flat zero.  
  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,483 AG
    Climate change cultists rave against those who point out cooler seasons or other weather related occurances that do not propagate their agenda but are quick do the exact same thing when a strong hurricane or other weather event takes place that does the opposite. 

    They are supreme hypocrites. 
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • SpineymanSpineyman Posts: 8,377 Admiral
    fins4me said:
    Climate change cultists rave against those who point out cooler seasons or other weather related occurances that do not propagate their agenda but are quick do the exact same thing when a strong hurricane or other weather event takes place that does the opposite. 

    They are supreme hypocrites. 
    It is nothing more than a hoax on a global scale. Just a way to fleece the masses.
    Kayak Rookie...and loving it.
    Fishing beautiful Destin / Ft Walton Beach area!

    II Chronicles 7:14
    if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.



  • Thing I don't understand ...and I'm no Scientist...But my House is 6 miles from the Coast and I have lot's of seashells about 6 to 10 ft' down. 
    Think maybe the Efr cools off,  Then the Erf warms up , Maybe sea levels have always risen and always receded , maybe way before Man ever showed up here .
    If I hold on to my House will it be waterfront in 2oo Thousand Years....winning...
    Killin and Grillin :grin
  • johnpowersjohnpowers Posts: 2,898 Captain
    Spineyman said:
    fins4me said:
    Climate change cultists rave against those who point out cooler seasons or other weather related occurances that do not propagate their agenda but are quick do the exact same thing when a strong hurricane or other weather event takes place that does the opposite. 

    They are supreme hypocrites. 
    It is nothing more than a hoax on a global scale. Just a way to fleece the masses.
    And CONTROL the masses. 
  • HomerSimpsonHomerSimpson Posts: 6,573 Admiral
    fins4me said:
    Climate change cultists rave against those who point out cooler seasons or other weather related occurances that do not propagate their agenda but are quick do the exact same thing when a strong hurricane or other weather event takes place that does the opposite. 

    They are supreme hypocrites. 
    this was the whole point of the original article. I found it funny how it was misinterpreted by some, who doing so actually proved its point.
  • TarponatorTarponator Posts: 19,935 AG
    edited December 2018 #138
    tarp seems to think satellites read temperatures and then prove ground based thermometers (which don't need calibrating) are accurate. 
    Only in your mind.


    It boils down to the data set, as you said and i've been saying.  Tarp doesn't agree with this either, but its much too small to really say anything other then it seems to be hotter now than 140 years ago.
    You seem to forget you've been saying it's a measurement problem -- you know, the part Keller shut you down on pretty quick.  Why the sudden change of heart? 

    Now you seem to acknowledge that it "Seems to be hotter"?  lol

    I guess this is just a badly calibrated thermometers or satellites and those guys at NOAA don't have any idea what they're talking about either:

    Date:             December 11, 2018
    Source:         National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA)
    Summary:     NOAA's annual report card on the Arctic, released today, shows that the Arctic region experienced the second-warmest air temperatures ever recorded; the second-lowest overall sea-ice coverage; lowest recorded winter ice in the Bering Sea; and earlier plankton blooms due to early melting of sea ice in the Bering Sea.


    Seriously, did you graduate high school?
  • ResinheadResinhead Posts: 10,987 AG
    Smell the civility?
  • HomerSimpsonHomerSimpson Posts: 6,573 Admiral
    Tarponator said:
    You seem to forget you've been saying it's a measurement problem -- you know, the part Keller shut you down on pretty quick.  Why the sudden change of heart?  

    i've been pointing out your fallacy in your constant dribble about how calibration is not important.

    and your assertion that satellite temps confirm ground based thermometers.

    oh yea, and your inability to comprehend what the original article was addressing


    seriously, its like you make up the other guys argument and then counter to that.  You have a comprehension problem there.


  • TarponatorTarponator Posts: 19,935 AG
    edited December 2018 #141
    I guess it's Keller's fallacy too.

    I can read and understand better than you.  I have the degree to prove it, and the industrial chemist who agrees, not to mention the NOAA and virtually every climate scientist in the world.

    But please tell me again how you know better, pretend my first words on your the silly article were my entire understanding.  It's entertaining if nothing else.

    Unless you ask me directly a question, this is my last response to you on this topic, so go ahead and repeat yourself again while ignoring the operative question:

    Where did you go to school again?


  • HomerSimpsonHomerSimpson Posts: 6,573 Admiral
    lol

    what a joke

    so please tarp.....use your Georgia Tech degree and explain how satellite temperature measurements don't rely on ground base thermometers for calibration but rather prove the ground base thermometers are correct.

    BTW....i attended georia tech as well.  But a degree without practice is just a piece of paper.  Which you are illustrating quite well.
  • cprcpr Posts: 9,299 Admiral
    Warming is good, it will make a great breeding habitat for the next pandemic.
    "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function." F. Scott Fitzgerald

    "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr
  • Good for Maters too...but the Lettuce will Bolt if it get's too hot so we might end up with a Lettuce shortage..
    Killin and Grillin :grin
  • ferris1248ferris1248 Posts: 25,643 Moderator
    HomerSimpson

    BTW....i attended georia tech as well. 
    Did you "get out"?

    "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole of the law. The rest is commentary."

    Rabbi Hillel (c20 BCE)

  • johnpowersjohnpowers Posts: 2,898 Captain
    Here along the beach this morning we had frost. But maybe the temperature should have been in the 70,s??
  • ResinheadResinhead Posts: 10,987 AG
    Scraped ice off mine and my sons windshield this morning. Wifes car and 2 boats live in the garages from Nov to Feb. 
  • Gary SGary S Posts: 3,333 Captain
    Here along the beach this morning we had frost. But maybe the temperature should have been in the 70,s??
    Make sure you calibrate your thermometer.
  • HomerSimpsonHomerSimpson Posts: 6,573 Admiral
    Here along the beach this morning we had frost. But maybe the temperature should have been in the 70,s??
    global warming does not mean its getting warmer.  Gosh....don't you understand the science?????   :p
  • MRichardsonMRichardson Posts: 10,466 AG
    Global warming simply means this:

    Listen to Al Gore and his ilk and do what he says. Don't be a science-denier.
    I have never seen live bones, but I know that they are often used by rich people to decorate the interior.
  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 13,008 AG
    A large portion of the science community believed in warming long before Gore stepped into the picture.  Fingers crossed the majority of scientific experts are wrong.
    #Lead beakerhead specialist 

    "Soul of the mind, key to life's ether. Soul of the lost, withdrawn from its vessel. Let strength be granted, so the world might be mended. So the world might be mended."
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