Sentinelese Tribe

Florida Bullfrog

Mister-Jr said:

Any grounds for winning a personal injury claim?

Actually technically yes, for the same reason one isn’t allowed to put up “no trespassing or I’ll shoot signs” and then follow thru with the shooting just because the person is trespassing on the back 40. 

But on a common sense level, he assumed the risk. 

GA Fin

We need some of these arrow slinging tribesmen to protect out southern border. According to CNN, the border at TJ is closed and the migrant horde is rushing it. 

FlatsMatt96

I dont understand why this is a debate. If they want to be left alone just leave them alone. If they were asking to be meddled with they would just stop killing every ***hole that stepped on the island. Its their land, leave them alone. They dont have immunity to certain diseases built up, they enjoy their culture, and they have their own way of life. Let them be. This is such a simple conversation. 

GA Fin

Where are those tribesmen when you need them?

https://youtu.be/AGXGhqrzCks

Florida Bullfrog

cadman said:

Florida Bullfrog said:

cadman said:

Florida Bullfrog said:

I had heard of them because like many of the animals of costal SE Asia, they sensed the tsunami coming and moved to high ground. Anthropologists study them from the sky and they were able to watch the islanders move ahead of the wave. Just as with the animals, its a mystery as to what mechanism or observations gave the islanders their warning. They may simply have been watching the animals and knew how to interpret their behavior.

As far as the fellow that died, his life was his to risk as he saw fit. I can’t say whether he made the right decision or not. Sometimes a life sacrificed is what’s called for in a circumstance, sometimes it isn’t. 

I do suspect the islanders know more about the outside world than we think. Not details, just vague notions from occational contacts morphed into oral myth. 

I agree that whether they want contact with the outside world is their decision to make. Doesn’t change the fact that they’re of low moral character to the extent they murder people for trespassing. Unless you believe they have diminished moral and mental capacity by virtue of their culture (which I do not believe). Cultural norms are of no excuse. It was a cultural norm in Western cultures to treat people of other races as less than human, and we do not look back and excuse the conduct of those prior generations just becasue they “didn’t know any better.”  So it is with these islanders. They’re murderers. I don’t think its a matter of law. I wouldn’t support any government trying to hold them legally accountable for this guy’s death. Simply as a moral matter, they aren’t cool people. Murder for trespassing isn’t cool. 

Does our soldiers not kill invaders to other countries trying to impose their will on the citizens?

You mean, do we shoot people just for running over the border and wanting to tell us about their religion? No, no we don’t. And to the extent that may have ever happened at some point in history, it would be just as wrong. 

The natives did not know he was trying to tell them about his religion. He was invading their island after he had been warned previously. For all they knew he was there to kill them. There was at least one account of visitors kidnapping members of the tribe and those members dying. 

If someone keeps trying to get inside your house and you can't understand why and you warn him to get away, are you going to just let him in the third time and hope for the best?

I would assume the guy was insane and likely dangerous. 

The account we’re aware of concerning the kidnapping of the islanders occurred in 1880. Although that event may have been passed on orally as a reason to hate outsiders, past bad incidents don’t justify the killing of the innocent now. If it did, then why do we spend time on this board condeming stand your ground shooters who shoot first and ask questions later for behavior that has got to be a least a bit more scary and aggressive than a goofy guy on a beach who isn’t armed yelling things? Surely random joe schmo gas station shooter is aware of some vague past event 130 years ago where a perp of the same description did something bad, therefore its ok to assume said person needs to be shot now as a threat. 

Of course the gas station shooter example is a bit of facetiousness to point out the hypocricy of harshly judging the gas station shooter for having an itchy trigger finger but not the native, as if the white guy in America should be held to a standard of care before deadly force is used that a dark skinned person on an island should not be, because, you know, skin color and geography make all the difference whether something is moral or not. 

But a more serious example would be to look back on settler treatment of Native Americans. Whites massacred Indians, and Indians massacred whites. We know it happened both ways. Either had reason to suspect the other when one appeared. So suppose you’re a white settler and a Native American appears unarmed at the border of your farm. You can’t speak his language, but he appears to be unarmed. He motions to approach your home. There’s enough universality of human body language that you can tell his geatures aren’t threatening. You just don’t trust him because of what he is and where he is. You shoot at him, half meaning to hit him, but miss. He won’t leave. But is neither theatening. He’s just there. Justified to kill? Unbenown to you, the reason he won’t leave is because a forest fire is coming and he’s hell bent on warning you. That’s a more comparable scenerio than a stranger breaking into my house at night. 

I promise you, many a NA probably died in such a manner due to such mistrust and presumptions. Shoot the “other” first, and ask questions later if at all, and string himup as an example to the “others”(the last fisherman who were killed on the island drifted there by accident and were hung on the beach by poles). 

cadman

You refuse to look at it from their perspective. You are looking at it from your view of the situation. In their view, he was an invader who was there to do them harm. 

Mudjon10

As I read it was, there's about 15 people that are o the island.five men a couple of years ago tried to go ashore there ,one dead and buried,4 had to swim away ,and their boat was destroyed. Leave them alone,hey just want to be by themselves.

 Mudjon

Florida Bullfrog

cadman said:

You refuse to look at it from their perspective. You are looking at it from your view of the situation. In their view, he was an invader who was there to do them harm. 

So thought the Germans concerning a subset of their population... an alien invader there to do them harm. 

Now of course, we know there's such a thing as a tragic misunderstanding. And outstretched hand and a smile, that to the wrong culture might mean a call to war. A sandwich that looks like a gun. Peaceful gestures that in low light are misperceived as aggressive. But the evidence not only from this case but in previous killings points to a culture that simply wants to kill the "other". Trespass as punished by the death penalty similar to how a grizzly might kill an interloper that crosses into its territory or how an ancient Middle Eastern king might prescribe death to anyone who approaches the throne without first being summoned forward. We all know that many, many, human cultures have been that way throughout history and still are. This is one of them, that is only remarkable because it still lives with mostly Stone Age technology.

Let's assume that fear is their primary motivator. So it was for many oppressors in history who feared what the "other" would do if given the chance. Regardless, the pattern with these islanders seems to be that if one or two lone, unarmed people arrive, they kill them and display or bury them on the beach as a warning. If large groups of "others" arrive, the islanders instead go hide. They only confront and kill trespassers when he trespasser is unarmed and alone. Sounds consistent with predatory behavior instead of protective behavior. The larger groups would be the bigger threat if the islanders feared invasion, and those larger groups would be the ones to stand one's ground against no matter the odds to protect family. But they don't stand against the larger groups. They run away. 

2amigo

A bible?  Should have gone in there with some rap music and a bag of weed. Chances are he would still be alive today. 

Turner River Terror

A box of Krispy Cremes nd a couple cases of Natty Lite he could be King,,

mustang190

Those are not palm fronds hanging off their huts, they are satellite dishes made to look like palms. 

mindyabiness

Florida Bullfrog said:

cadman said:

You refuse to look at it from their perspective. You are looking at it from your view of the situation. In their view, he was an invader who was there to do them harm. 

So thought the Germans concerning a subset of their population... an alien invader there to do them harm. 

Now of course, we know there's such a thing as a tragic misunderstanding. And outstretched hand and a smile, that to the wrong culture might mean a call to war. A sandwich that looks like a gun. Peaceful gestures that in low light are misperceived as aggressive. But the evidence not only from this case but in previous killings points to a culture that simply wants to kill the "other". Trespass as punished by the death penalty similar to how a grizzly might kill an interloper that crosses into its territory or how an ancient Middle Eastern king might prescribe death to anyone who approaches the throne without first being summoned forward. We all know that many, many, human cultures have been that way throughout history and still are. This is one of them, that is only remarkable because it still lives with mostly Stone Age technology.

Let's assume that fear is their primary motivator. So it was for many oppressors in history who feared what the "other" would do if given the chance. Regardless, the pattern with these islanders seems to be that if one or two lone, unarmed people arrive, they kill them and display or bury them on the beach as a warning. If large groups of "others" arrive, the islanders instead go hide. They only confront and kill trespassers when he trespasser is unarmed and alone. Sounds consistent with predatory behavior instead of protective behavior. The larger groups would be the bigger threat if the islanders feared invasion, and those larger groups would be the ones to stand one's ground against no matter the odds to protect family. But they don't stand against the larger groups. They run away. 

Perhaps that is in accord with North Sentinel Island law. This is probably considered a sovereign nation by our laws as these are indigenous peoples.
Unless you know what constitutes right and wrong according to that way of life or law, you're just comparing their actions to the law as you know it and I don't see where that is relevant.

fish_stix

Florida Bullfrog said:

Parkerboy said:

Florida Bullfrog said:

I had heard of them because like many of the animals of costal SE Asia, they sensed the tsunami coming and moved to high ground. Anthropologists study them from the sky and they were able to watch the islanders move ahead of the wave. Just as with the animals, its a mystery as to what mechanism or observations gave the islanders their warning. They may simply have been watching the animals and knew how to interpret their behavior.

As far as the fellow that died, his life was his to risk as he saw fit. I can’t say whether he made the right decision or not. Sometimes a life sacrificed is what’s called for in a circumstance, sometimes it isn’t. 

I do suspect the islanders know more about the outside world than we think. Not details, just vague notions from occational contacts morphed into oral myth. 

I agree that whether they want contact with the outside world is their decision to make. Doesn’t change the fact that they’re of low moral character to the extent they murder people for trespassing. Unless you believe they have diminished moral and mental capacity by virtue of their culture (which I do not believe). Cultural norms are of no excuse. It was a cultural norm in Western cultures to treat people of other races as less than human, and we do not look back and excuse the conduct of those prior generations just becasue they “didn’t know any better.”  So it is with these islanders. They’re murderers. I don’t think its a matter of law. I wouldn’t support any government trying to hold them legally accountable for this guy’s death. Simply as a moral matter, they aren’t cool people. Murder for trespassing isn’t cool. 

Low moral character? You are projecting your values on them? 

Yes, as do we all every time we condemn the Germans (who culturally thought it was acceptable to kill people they deemed as racial, social, or political threats to their Reich) and white Southerns (who thought it was culturally ok to enslave blacks). 

Culture or accepted norms of the majority are no excuse. 

If those tribes people are human and have the same mental capacity I do (which the answer to both of those questions is yes, them and I are the same), then they’re subject to the same judgement. 

fish_stix

As for the "white Southerners" lets not forget that British plantation owners were actually the real culprits in bringing slavery to America. The U.S didn't exist until 1777; before that it was a group of British Colonies and the Brits, in cahoots with the French, Portugese and Spaniards, owned and operated the slave trade, not only in the South but also throughout the Caribbean and South America. I'm not trying to justify the Southerners keeping slaves but they did have "adult" leadership in the endeavor.

Billy No Mates

The same idiots that want to help the Gopher Tortoise buy dropping it in a pond so it will be safe. 

FlatsMatt96

I dont see why we are trying to correlate a small tribe on the other side of the globe that carries around bows and arrows to Historical power houses with massive firepower who were literally trying to conquer as much of the world as they could. These people just want to be left alone. They dont want help, they dont want outsiders, they dont want our gifts. They want to be left alone. Its a crime to even set foot on the island anyways. So why not just let them be?

cadman

Because some people think they know what these natives need more than the natives do. 

surfman

Christians want to get them before the Muslims do.

kellercl

Regardless if the natives are in the wrong.  This guy knew the natives were hostile to the point of killing people who step on their island...  and still he willingly went 3 times.  This was an IQ test and he failed.

Saltygatorvet

Can there ever be a thread that doesn’t up being political? Can you just not help it?

Tarponator

What the Sentinelese really needed was a wall to keep the evangelical invaders out.  

cadman

Tarponator said:

What the Sentinelese really needed was a wall to keep the evangelical invaders out.  

I don't know, their method seems to work. Maybe we should adopt it. 

treemanjohn

I simply don't care one way or another. It's simple to me just leave another man's land and property alone and you'll never hear a word from them

Tarponator

cadman said:

Tarponator said:

What the Sentinelese really needed was a wall to keep the evangelical invaders out.  

I don't know, their method seems to work. Maybe we should adopt it. 

So did the Native Americans' method, until it didn't.   Perhaps they would be better off just converting like the suicidal evangelical wanted them to.

cadman

Tarponator said:

cadman said:

Tarponator said:

What the Sentinelese really needed was a wall to keep the evangelical invaders out.  

I don't know, their method seems to work. Maybe we should adopt it. 

So did the Native Americans' method, until it didn't.   Perhaps they would be better off just converting like the suicidal evangelical wanted them to.

Maybe their God is the right God?

Finfinder

fins4me said:

Why is it somehow better for them to allow them to remain centuries behind the rest of humanity?  It is almost like some would have them treated like some endangered chimp species instead of human beings.

I say leave them alone doesn't bother me, however this is intellectually spot on.   I think the reaction to your post is personal because why else would they subject themselves to such staggering hypocrisy.    

ferris1248

Saltygatorvet said:

Can there ever be a thread that doesn’t up being political? Can you just not help it?

No more

AaronCannon

That guy took an arrow to his bible, left, and then went back again.
Accept your Miracle, and go home.

stc1993

There are people in S America way behind the times too.  

ferris1248

stc1993 said:

There are people in S America way behind the times too.  

Are they really behind the times? If the world goes to hell in a handbasket, who would survive? I'd say them, not us.