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Be careful what you say in Europe. At the rate we are going we will be in the same boat.

GA FinGA Fin Posts: 8,956 Admiral

Their freedom of speech is different that ours. A lady calls a pedo a pedo and gets fined because she may have hurt someone's "religious feelings".

"The ECHR ruled Austrian courts had “carefully balanced her right to freedom of expression with the right of others to have their religious feelings protected.”

Wow!

Faux News linkage: https://www.foxnews.com/world/defaming-muhammad-does-not-fall-under-purview-of-free-speech-european-court-rules

QUOTE The freedom of speech does not extend to include defaming the prophet of Islam, the European Court of Human rights ruled Thursday.

The Strasbourg-based ECHR ruled that insulting Islamic prophet Muhammad “goes beyond the permissible limits of an objective debate” and “could stir up prejudice and put at risk religious peace.”

The court’s decision comes after it rejected an Austrian woman’s claim that her previous conviction for calling Muhammad a pedophile, due to his marriage to a 6-year-old girl, violated her freedom of speech.

The ECHR ruled Austrian courts had “carefully balanced her right to freedom of expression with the right of others to have their religious feelings protected.”

The woman, in her late 40s and identified only as E.S., claimed during two public seminars in 2009 that Muhammad’s marriage to a young girl was akin to “pedophilia.”

According to Islamic tradition, the marriage between Muhammad and a 6-year-old girl was consummated when she was 9 years old and he was about 50.

The Austrian woman stated in her seminars that Muhammad “liked to do it with children” and “… A 56-year-old and a 6-year-old? … What do we call it, if it is not pedophilia?”

A Vienna court convicted her in 2011 of disparaging religious doctrines, ordering her to pay a $547 fine, plus legal costs. The ruling was later upheld by an Austrian appeals court.

The woman argued her comments fell within her right of freedom of expression and that religious groups must tolerate criticism. She also argued her comments were intended to contribute to public debate and not designed to defame Muhammad.

The ECHR said the Austrian court’s decision “served the legitimate aim of preserving religious peace.”

The court also said the woman’s comments were not objective, failed to provide historical background and had no intention of promoting public debate. /QUOTE

Straight white male living a life of privilege and proud of it.


"The greatest pleasure is to vanquish your enemies and chase them before you, to rob them of their wealth and see those dear to them bathed in tears, to ride their horses and clasp to your bosom their wives and daughters."
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Replies

  • Big BatteryBig Battery Posts: 20,592 AG
    So saying Jesus F***ing Christ could end with you in prison?
  • MRichardsonMRichardson Posts: 10,438 AG
    If the far righties get their way, probably.
    But right now, we have a more immediate issue with the foaming-at-the-mouth rabidly progressive lefties.
    I have never seen live bones, but I know that they are often used by rich people to decorate the interior.
  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 5,971 Admiral
    Political correctness is a plague in the old World.
    Italy is trying to escape from this social slavery but EU’s gangsters are boycotting our country very hardly.
    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English
    ********************************************************************************************************************************
    I'm typing keeping close my "pasta hole"!
    Political correctness is a mental disease that can put you in slavery. The only cure is to turn on the brain.
    I'm not afraid of Coravirus but I'm scared by the paranoid pandemic army who ask for the sanitary naz**m.
    Vulgus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,010 AG
    There are limits to our freedom of speech, those limits are tighter in other places of the world.  And if you think the EU is strict, you should spend some time in Singapore.

    However, nobody is calling for limitations of free speech in this country like those (although I'm sure someone can find a sign someone held or a shirt they might have worn that suggests otherwise), so stop with the ridiculous slippery slope that Faux News would have you slide down as they inspire more foaming-at-the-mouth rabidly bombing conservatives with MAGA stickers on their vans.

  • Big BatteryBig Battery Posts: 20,592 AG
    There are limits to our freedom of speech, those limits are tighter in other places of the world.  And if you think the EU is strict, you should spend some time in Singapore.

    However, nobody is calling for limitations of free speech in this country like those (although I'm sure someone can find a sign someone held or a shirt they might have worn that suggests otherwise), so stop with the ridiculous slippery slope that Faux News would have you slide down as they inspire more foaming-at-the-mouth rabidly bombing conservatives with MAGA stickers on their vans.

    So you never posted in the past in some envious way of comparing what is done in the US as compared to what is done in other industrialized nations... oh maybe in regards to health care or ....
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,010 AG
    I've posted about all those topics and more.  What's your point?
  • MRichardsonMRichardson Posts: 10,438 AG
    People in this country are trending towards preferring not to be offended
    than to be free.  It has happened in Europe and it will likely happen here.
    I have never seen live bones, but I know that they are often used by rich people to decorate the interior.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,010 AG
    edited October 2018 #9
    People are trending towards being more respectful of others.  To some that seems like an odd concept, so odd they would compare us to Europe when it comes to our freedom of speech, suddenly forgetting that a founding concept of free speech by our European immigrant forefathers was a reaction to this very limitation.

    Have no fear, you'll still be free to disrespect whoever you want, and the rest of us free to disrespect you for doing so.

    Your "likely" detector needs adjusting.  Much like guns, nobody is coming for our right to be an ****.
  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 6,402 Admiral
    I love Europe, been 3 times, great place.  


    “When you're good at something, you'll tell everyone. When you're great at something, they'll tell you.”

    -Walter Payton
  • FinfinderFinfinder Posts: 9,999 Admiral
    edited October 2018 #11
    There are limits to our freedom of speech, those limits are tighter in other places of the world.  And if you think the EU is strict, you should spend some time in Singapore.

    However, nobody is calling for limitations of free speech in this country like those (although I'm sure someone can find a sign someone held or a shirt they might have worn that suggests otherwise), so stop with the ridiculous slippery slope that Faux News would have you slide down as they inspire more foaming-at-the-mouth rabidly bombing conservatives with MAGA stickers on their vans.

    Yea it was a figment of everyone's imagination congress held hearings on this subject.   Google. Facebook, Youtube, Twitter.  and Silicon Valley is really just the name of a porno flick.  Nothing to see here's, it's ridiculous.  
  • AaronCannonAaronCannon Northwest ArkansasPosts: 866 Officer
    edited October 2018 #12
    Tarponator said:
    There are limits to our freedom of speech, those limits are tighter in other places of the world.  And if you think the EU is strict, you should spend some time in Singapore.

    However, nobody is calling for limitations of free speech in this country like those (although I'm sure someone can find a sign someone held or a shirt they might have worn that suggests otherwise), so stop with the ridiculous slippery slope that Faux News would have you slide down as they inspire more foaming-at-the-mouth rabidly bombing conservatives with MAGA stickers on their vans.

    So why do leftists sue bakers that wont make cakes for gay marriages?
    Courts say gay marriage is a thing, so it is.  
    Why cant a business refuse to participate in the thing.
    Of course youll retort that eventually the bakers preserved their right to not bake a cake, they just had to spend thousands with a lawyer to...not make a cake.
    Seems kind of fuct.
    The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.
    Jeff Cooper
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,010 AG
    edited October 2018 #13
    Well, that's an interesting angle, Aaron.   

    To answer your first question:  The same reason Dred Scott sued:  To right a perceived injustice.  Those lousy litigous leftists!  :)

    As for your second question:  The business CAN refuse to participate these days -- in case you had not heard -- but nobody was forcing them to be best man in a gay wedding.  Instead all was asked was to bake them a cake like he bakes for anyone else and not discriminate, or so the failed argument goes.

    And you will note that discrimination and free speech (i.e. baker) is quite a bit different of a topic than this one which is much more of a pure free-speech play than that one (i.e. no action is being withheld or compelled) -- so really they are related but not closely enough to draw the parallel you seem to.

    Either that, or you're going to have to explain what you meant a bit more.

    Thanks for your response...Mike
  • AaronCannonAaronCannon Northwest ArkansasPosts: 866 Officer
    That particular baker had also refused to make cakes for Halloween, and  was closed on sundays.
    Seems a little targeted to me.
    Also wonder if his attorney was cut a check by the plantiff.
    The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.
    Jeff Cooper
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,010 AG
    I think he is behavior on Halloween is safe from litigation.  

    Trick-or-treaters aren't really liberal by nature.  :)


  • GA FinGA Fin Posts: 8,956 Admiral

    However, nobody is calling for limitations of free speech in this country...

    Mike, you are not paying attention.

    The leftists are calling for exactly that.

    Google "Berkley conservative speaker" for a start.

    Then check out the leftist mob that tried to deny some white supremacists their freedom of speech.

    Then Google "attacked for wearing MAGA hat".

    Don't forget the democrats wanted to curtail conservative talk radio via the FCC.


    I know you have excellent Google skills. Have at it.

    Straight white male living a life of privilege and proud of it.


    "The greatest pleasure is to vanquish your enemies and chase them before you, to rob them of their wealth and see those dear to them bathed in tears, to ride their horses and clasp to your bosom their wives and daughters."
  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,487 AG
    Political correctness is simply a societal excuse for dishonesty. 
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • Westwall01Westwall01 Posts: 5,453 Admiral
    People are trending towards being more respectful of others. 
    You really can't be serious
  • NewberryJeffNewberryJeff Posts: 7,447 Admiral
    So saying Jesus F***ing Christ could end with you in prison?
    No, "religious peace" wouldn't be put at risk by "defaming" Jesus so the Europoor court would let that slide.
  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 6,402 Admiral
    edited October 2018 #20
    I've often wondered if those who disdain Europe have actually been or f they are simply sheep parroting what they have been told.  Just joking, I don't actually wonder, I'm pretty sure I already know the answer.


    “When you're good at something, you'll tell everyone. When you're great at something, they'll tell you.”

    -Walter Payton
  • AaronCannonAaronCannon Northwest ArkansasPosts: 866 Officer
    edited October 2018 #21
    I think he is behavior on Halloween is safe from litigation.  

    Trick-or-treaters aren't really liberal by nature.  :)


    Nice dodge.
    And to Kellers point, Ive been scolded for selling half my Dads American cigarettes in moscow and dressing as statue of liberty in leningrad. Parents were far more pissed off about the smokes.


    The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.
    Jeff Cooper
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 10,104 AG
    People are trending towards being more respectful of others.  To some that seems like an odd concept, so odd they would compare us to Europe when it comes to our freedom of speech, suddenly forgetting that a founding concept of free speech by our European immigrant forefathers was a reaction to this very limitation.

    Have no fear, you'll still be free to disrespect whoever you want, and the rest of us free to disrespect you for doing so.

    Your "likely" detector needs adjusting.  Much like guns, nobody is coming for our right to be an ****.
    Respect is earned. Not given. 
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 10,104 AG
    edited October 2018 #23
    kellercl said:
    I've often wondered if those who disdain Europe have actually been or f they are simply sheep parroting what they have been told.  Just joking, I don't actually wonder, I'm pretty sure I already know the answer.
    Lived there (Duetchland) for four years 1968-1972. Numerous TDY’s 1979 thru 1990 Air Force Spain Italy, Greece and Holland. Nice places, lots of history. Still can’t forget the smell of Dachua and the site of East Germany and Berlin. Stand in the American cemetery in Luxembourg, a site and feeling that will give you chills. 
     A good place to visit but I prefer the good ol US of A! Europe has nothing on this country. 
  • dave44dave44 Posts: 11,549 AG
    I know I’m messed up, I like to live in places where I’m comfortable and happy. If I liked places in Europe that much I would live there.
       IMHO, nice place to visit but I’m not packing up my crap.
  • ScminnowScminnow Posts: 4,094 Captain

    When he was 50, the prophet of Islam took as his wife Aisha, who was then six or seven. The marriage was consummated when Aisha was nine.

    This is not a smear. It is an accurate account of authoritative Islamic scripture. (See, e.g., Sahih-Bukhari, Vol. 5, Book 58, Nos. 234–236.) Yet it can no longer safely be discussed in Europe, thanks to the extortionate threat of violence and intimidation — specifically, of jihadist terrorism and the Islamist grievance industry that slipstreams behind it. Under a ruling by the so-called European Court of Human Rights (ECHR), free speech has been supplanted by sharia blasphemy standards.

    The case involves an Austrian woman (identified as “Mrs. S.” in court filings and believed to be Elisabeth Sabaditsch Wolff) who, in 2009, conducted two seminars entitled “Basic Information on Islam.” She included the account of Mohammed’s marriage to Aisha. Though this account is scripturally accurate, Mrs. S. was prosecuted on the rationale that her statements implied pedophilic tendencies on the part of the prophet. A fine (about $547) was imposed for disparaging religion.

    Mrs. S. appealed, relying on Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights. That provision purports to safeguard “freedom of expression,” though it works about the same way the warranty on your used car does — it sounds like you’re covered, but the fine print eviscerates your protection.

    Article 10 starts out benignly enough: Europeans are free “to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers.” But then comes the legalese: One’s exercise of the right to impart information, you see, “carries with it duties and responsibilities.” Consequently, what is called “freedom” is actually “subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties” that the authorities decide “are necessary in a democratic society,” including for “public safety” and for “the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others.”

    Translation: Europeans are free to say only what they are permitted to say by the unelected judges of the European courts. Truth is irrelevant. As the jurists reasoned in the case of Mrs. S., a person’s freedom to assert facts must be assessed in “the wider context” that balances “free” expression against — I kid you not — “the right of others to have their religious feelings protected,” as well as “the legitimate aim of preserving religious peace.”

  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 32,691 AG
    I don't want to argue this one way or the other, but I bet most of our ancestors were pedophiles under the current definition, My grandmother was 15 when she married and had children. Many women were below the modern age of consent and married older men back in the "good old days". 

    While we frown upon such behavior today, to subject any historical figure to our modern definitions is wrong, i would say her only reason was to insult their religion, which she should be able to do and would be able o do here in America, but not in other countries. 

    If you wish to live in a certain country, you must follow their laws, 

    It is funny, that everyone wants immigrants that come here to follow our laws, but expect that the laws of other countries can be disregarded because we disagree with them, 


    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • ScminnowScminnow Posts: 4,094 Captain
    I think you missed the point. The threat of violence from the religion of peace is suppressing free speech. You can say anything you want about Jesus. But watch your head critizing Mohamed 
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 32,691 AG
    edited October 2018 #28
    Scminnow said:
    I think you missed the point. The threat of violence from the religion of peace is suppressing free speech. You can say anything you want about Jesus. But watch your head critizing Mohamed 
    What threat of violence? There was nothing about the threat of violence from any religion in the OP. The lady was fined for making remarks, not threatened with violence. 

    I think you missed the point of the OP if you think violence was mentioned. 

    How do you go from a court fining a lady to a religion instigating violence and suppressing free speech?

    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • AaronCannonAaronCannon Northwest ArkansasPosts: 866 Officer
    Subjecting historical figures to modern standards is kind of a 'thing' these days.
    Its disappointing, especially to only seen it done to figures that dont match the judgemental folks standards.
    The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles.
    Jeff Cooper
  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 5,971 Admiral
    edited October 2018 #30
    fins4me said:
    Political correctness is simply a societal excuse for dishonesty. 
    And it is even the best way to not engage and fix the issues. Any bad behavior, when perpetrated by protected categories, is justified by sweet and hypocritical words instead than fighted. Easier than try to fix the problems, just a shield of hypocrisy good for everything.

    And in order to keep this fake peace and justice anybody out of choir is prosecuted. Like this lady in Austria.
    Even in this case is easier fight honest people than felons.
    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English
    ********************************************************************************************************************************
    I'm typing keeping close my "pasta hole"!
    Political correctness is a mental disease that can put you in slavery. The only cure is to turn on the brain.
    I'm not afraid of Coravirus but I'm scared by the paranoid pandemic army who ask for the sanitary naz**m.
    Vulgus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
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