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10% Tax Cut for Middle Income Earners?

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  • frankfrank Posts: 13,292 AG
    nuevowavo said:
    There won't be any tax cut. It won't ever come up for a vote in the lame duck session. This was just a bone thrown out to the base to get them fired up for the midterms.
    no, tell me it's not true!
    well yeah i guess it's par for the course, but maybe someone would attempt to refute that
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 33,389 AG
    kellercl said:
    You are correct that 2017 shouldn't be in there, copy and paste error.  The numbers I am getting for annual deficit are as follows:

    2009 1412.69
    2010 1294.37
    2011 1299.59
    2012 1086.95
    2013 679.54
    2014 484.6
    2015 438.49
    2016 584.65

    No where near the 9 million which was claimed.  Also bear in mind the original number that was claimed was 10 million.  So NaCl has already backed down a trillion.  
    The fiscal numbers by calculation are 7.2 trillion, so I overestimated via copy/paste error.  Why those don't match the debt tracker is interesting, and frankly doesn't make much sense to me at the moment.  Though the take home point is still clear.  NaCl is wrong about his 10 and 9 trillion numbers.    

    https://www.thebalance.com/fy-2009-u-s-federal-budget-and-spending-3306311

    https://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_deficit_chart.html

    Again, by the numbers 2009 through 2016, 7.2 trillion.  Not 10 trillion, not 9 trillion.  


    That is the deficit each year and not the debt. Don't know how many time I need to repeat that. They are not the same thing. I gave you a link to the treasury department with the debt to the date. 

    You are using bad data and your information is incorrect. My data came from the U.S. government treasury department that tracks the debt daily. You are using fiscal years which not an accurate way to determine the increase in the debt while Obama was in office. The only way to determine how much the debt grew is by using the starting and ending dates of his office term. 

    The total debt can and does grow by more than the deficit. The total debt (which NACI was referring to) includes intergovernmental borrowing. The deficit does not include this borrowing. 

    The deficit only covers the public debt portion, which under Obama grew by the $8.096 trillion number I gave. The reason you do not agree with my number is your data set is incorrect using fiscal years and I used the exact time he was in office for accuracy. 

    You are wrong. 

    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 33,389 AG
    nuevowavo said:
    There won't be any tax cut. It won't ever come up for a vote in the lame duck session. This was just a bone thrown out to the base to get them fired up for the midterms.
    Yep, if Republicans lose any seats, Trump will blame democrats for no tax cuts happening and if republicans stay even or gain seats, he will still blame democrats. 

    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 6,665 Admiral
    edited October 2018 #95
    cadman said:
    kellercl said:
    You are correct that 2017 shouldn't be in there, copy and paste error.  The numbers I am getting for annual deficit are as follows:

    2009 1412.69
    2010 1294.37
    2011 1299.59
    2012 1086.95
    2013 679.54
    2014 484.6
    2015 438.49
    2016 584.65

    No where near the 9 million which was claimed.  Also bear in mind the original number that was claimed was 10 million.  So NaCl has already backed down a trillion.  
    The fiscal numbers by calculation are 7.2 trillion, so I overestimated via copy/paste error.  Why those don't match the debt tracker is interesting, and frankly doesn't make much sense to me at the moment.  Though the take home point is still clear.  NaCl is wrong about his 10 and 9 trillion numbers.    

    https://www.thebalance.com/fy-2009-u-s-federal-budget-and-spending-3306311

    https://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_deficit_chart.html

    Again, by the numbers 2009 through 2016, 7.2 trillion.  Not 10 trillion, not 9 trillion.  


    That is the deficit each year and not the debt. Don't know how many time I need to repeat that. They are not the same thing. I gave you a link to the treasury department with the debt to the date. 

    You are using bad data and your information is incorrect. My data came from the U.S. government treasury department that tracks the debt daily. You are using fiscal years which not an accurate way to determine the increase in the debt while Obama was in office. The only way to determine how much the debt grew is by using the starting and ending dates of his office term. 

    The total debt can and does grow by more than the deficit. The total debt (which NACI was referring to) includes intergovernmental borrowing. The deficit does not include this borrowing. 

    The deficit only covers the public debt portion, which under Obama grew by the $8.096 trillion number I gave. The reason you do not agree with my number is your data set is incorrect using fiscal years and I used the exact time he was in office for accuracy. 

    You are wrong. 
    Debt should be annualized deficit.  Point being the fact those two numbers don't agree is BS on the part of the government.  I also wonder how interest is included (assuming it is) in the calculation.  I find this discrepancy bothersome.  Intergovernmental borrowing shouldn't increase net debt, not when they are all under the same parent budget.  Borrowing would increase departmental debt, but not overall.  I'm leaning towards this having more to do with interest on borrowed money from overseas than intergovernmental borrowing.  Either way, I learned something new today.  Deficit doesn't equate to debt, which is...  IMHO complete and utter BS.  Those two numbers should absolutely align.  According to your method of tracking, to date the current administration has added 1.7 trillion in less than 2 years, which to your point doesn't match deficit.        


    “When you're good at something, you'll tell everyone. When you're great at something, they'll tell you.”

    -Walter Payton
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 33,389 AG
    kellercl said:
    cadman said:
    kellercl said:
    You are correct that 2017 shouldn't be in there, copy and paste error.  The numbers I am getting for annual deficit are as follows:

    2009 1412.69
    2010 1294.37
    2011 1299.59
    2012 1086.95
    2013 679.54
    2014 484.6
    2015 438.49
    2016 584.65

    No where near the 9 million which was claimed.  Also bear in mind the original number that was claimed was 10 million.  So NaCl has already backed down a trillion.  
    The fiscal numbers by calculation are 7.2 trillion, so I overestimated via copy/paste error.  Why those don't match the debt tracker is interesting, and frankly doesn't make much sense to me at the moment.  Though the take home point is still clear.  NaCl is wrong about his 10 and 9 trillion numbers.    

    https://www.thebalance.com/fy-2009-u-s-federal-budget-and-spending-3306311

    https://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_deficit_chart.html

    Again, by the numbers 2009 through 2016, 7.2 trillion.  Not 10 trillion, not 9 trillion.  


    That is the deficit each year and not the debt. Don't know how many time I need to repeat that. They are not the same thing. I gave you a link to the treasury department with the debt to the date. 

    You are using bad data and your information is incorrect. My data came from the U.S. government treasury department that tracks the debt daily. You are using fiscal years which not an accurate way to determine the increase in the debt while Obama was in office. The only way to determine how much the debt grew is by using the starting and ending dates of his office term. 

    The total debt can and does grow by more than the deficit. The total debt (which NACI was referring to) includes intergovernmental borrowing. The deficit does not include this borrowing. 

    The deficit only covers the public debt portion, which under Obama grew by the $8.096 trillion number I gave. The reason you do not agree with my number is your data set is incorrect using fiscal years and I used the exact time he was in office for accuracy. 

    You are wrong. 
    Debt should be annualized deficit.  Point being the fact those two numbers don't agree is BS on the part of the government.  I also wonder how interest is included (assuming it is) in the calculation.  I find this discrepancy bothersome.  Intergovernmental borrowing shouldn't increase net debt, not when they are all under the same parent budget.  Borrowing would increase departmental debt, but not overall.  I'm leaning towards this having more to do with interest on borrowed money from overseas than intergovernmental borrowing.  Either way, I learned something new today.  Deficit doesn't equate to debt, which is...  IMHO complete and utter BS.  Those two numbers should absolutely align.  According to your method of tracking, to date the current administration has added 1.7 trillion in less than 2 years.        
    That is correct, Trump has added $1.7 in total debt since taking office. 

    You have to include intergovernmental borrowing since that money. like public debt, has to be paid back at some point. it was tax revenue raised for a specific purpose like Social Security that was borrowed to pay other bills. The interest is included with the debt and the deficit sort of and it has nothing to do with overseas borrowing. Some of it does have to do with how interest on the debt is calculated and anticipated revenues and expenditures. There is also the issue of when the government borrows and when deficits are recorded for budget purposes. 

    If it makes your feel any better the treasury department borrowed a record $488 billion in the first qtr of 2018.

    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 6,665 Admiral
    I'll concede I assumed debt was annualized deficit, because it should be.  Though as you correctly pointed out, it isn't how our brilliant government works.  Good learning experience, thanks for the knowledge.


    “When you're good at something, you'll tell everyone. When you're great at something, they'll tell you.”

    -Walter Payton
  • NACl H2O LuvrNACl H2O Luvr Posts: 12,389 AG
    edited October 2018 #98
    kellercl said:
    I'll concede I assumed debt was annualized deficit, because it should be.  Though as you correctly pointed out, it isn't how our brilliant government works.  Good learning experience, thanks for the knowledge.
    Oops, you made another serious mistake in this post. Once again you forgot to tell us how smart you are, if you keep telling us how smart you are in every post, eventually we'll believe you.
  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 6,665 Admiral
    kellercl said:
    I'll concede I assumed debt was annualized deficit, because it should be.  Though as you correctly pointed out, it isn't how our brilliant government works.  Good learning experience, thanks for the knowledge.
    Oops, you made another serious mistake in this post. Once again you forgot to tell us how smart you are, if you keep telling us how smart you are in every post, eventually we'll believe you.
    Lol, I'm not worried about gaining your approval.  I'm quite confident in who I am.  


    “When you're good at something, you'll tell everyone. When you're great at something, they'll tell you.”

    -Walter Payton
  • NACl H2O LuvrNACl H2O Luvr Posts: 12,389 AG
    kellercl said:
    kellercl said:
    I'll concede I assumed debt was annualized deficit, because it should be.  Though as you correctly pointed out, it isn't how our brilliant government works.  Good learning experience, thanks for the knowledge.
    Oops, you made another serious mistake in this post. Once again you forgot to tell us how smart you are, if you keep telling us how smart you are in every post, eventually we'll believe you.
    Lol, I'm not worried about gaining your approval.  I'm quite confident in who I am.  

    Simmer down Helen, don't take this foruming stuff too seriously...If I take the occasional jab at you, it's all in good fun, and it's actually because I like you.

    I used to take jabs at Cadman much more frequently in the past, but then I got bored with him since he was overwhelmed by intellectual superiority. It was like a bobcat playing with a half dead field mouse.....fun for a while, but then you get beyond it.
  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 6,665 Admiral
    kellercl said:
    kellercl said:
    I'll concede I assumed debt was annualized deficit, because it should be.  Though as you correctly pointed out, it isn't how our brilliant government works.  Good learning experience, thanks for the knowledge.
    Oops, you made another serious mistake in this post. Once again you forgot to tell us how smart you are, if you keep telling us how smart you are in every post, eventually we'll believe you.
    Lol, I'm not worried about gaining your approval.  I'm quite confident in who I am.  

    Simmer down Helen, don't take this foruming stuff too seriously...If I take the occasional jab at you, it's all in good fun, and it's actually because I like you.

    I used to take jabs at Cadman much more frequently in the past, but then I got bored with him since he was overwhelmed by intellectual superiority. It was like a bobcat playing with a half dead field mouse.....fun for a while, but then you get beyond it.
    Fair enough.


    “When you're good at something, you'll tell everyone. When you're great at something, they'll tell you.”

    -Walter Payton
  • nuevowavonuevowavo Posts: 6,823 Admin
    .If I take the occasional jab at you, it's all in good fun, and it's actually because I like you.
    He likes me! He really likes me!
    Federales, bring my baby back to me!
  • Soda PopinskiSoda Popinski GrovelandPosts: 13,534 AG
    edited October 2018 #103
    nuevowavo said:
    .If I take the occasional jab at you, it's all in good fun, and it's actually because I like you.
    He likes me! He really likes me!
    who @MRichardson ???

    NO he doesn't like anyone.   
    Like is like a Helicopter.  I do not know how to operate a Helicopter  
  • MRichardsonMRichardson Posts: 10,446 AG
    I like everyone here. 
    There is not one person who I dislike on this forum based on their forum persona.

    But I'm pretty sure nuevo's comment was referring to NACl's.

    I have never seen live bones, but I know that they are often used by rich people to decorate the interior.
  • Soda PopinskiSoda Popinski GrovelandPosts: 13,534 AG
    I like everyone here. 
    There is not one person who I dislike on this forum based on their forum persona.

    But I'm pretty sure nuevo's comment was referring to NACl's.

    i know, was just trying to have a little fun.   things get cantankerous around here too much. 
    Like is like a Helicopter.  I do not know how to operate a Helicopter  
  • HawgfishHawgfish FloridaPosts: 12 Greenhorn
    Trump is a lunatic and doesnt have a clue what he means when he says things.
  • NACl H2O LuvrNACl H2O Luvr Posts: 12,389 AG
    Hawgfish said:
    Trump is a lunatic and doesnt have a clue what he means when he says things.

    US economic growth tops forecasts

    World’s biggest economy expands at 3.5 per cent annual rate in third quarter

    https://www.ft.com/content/9e48ffa0-d90a-11e8-a854-33d6f82e62f8

  • MRichardsonMRichardson Posts: 10,446 AG
    Hawgfish said:
    Trump is a lunatic and doesnt have a clue what he means when he says things.
    It seems that way.
    But he keeps winning.  He's been winning his whole life.  (Economically that is)

    I don't understand it but his results matter.  And they SHOULD speak louder than his words.  His tremendous, beautiful words.  He has all the best words.
    I have never seen live bones, but I know that they are often used by rich people to decorate the interior.
  • dragon baitdragon bait Posts: 9,254 Admiral
    Hawgfish said:
    Trump is a lunatic and doesnt have a clue what he means when he says things.
    It seems that way.
    But he keeps winning.  He's been winning his whole life.  (Economically that is)

    I don't understand it but his results matter.  And they SHOULD speak louder than his words.  His tremendous, beautiful words.  He has all the best words.
    covfefe
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 33,389 AG
    kellercl said:
    kellercl said:
    kellercl said:
    I'll concede I assumed debt was annualized deficit, because it should be.  Though as you correctly pointed out, it isn't how our brilliant government works.  Good learning experience, thanks for the knowledge.
    Oops, you made another serious mistake in this post. Once again you forgot to tell us how smart you are, if you keep telling us how smart you are in every post, eventually we'll believe you.
    Lol, I'm not worried about gaining your approval.  I'm quite confident in who I am.  

    Simmer down Helen, don't take this foruming stuff too seriously...If I take the occasional jab at you, it's all in good fun, and it's actually because I like you.

    I used to take jabs at Cadman much more frequently in the past, but then I got bored with him since he was overwhelmed by intellectual superiority. It was like a bobcat playing with a half dead field mouse.....fun for a while, but then you get beyond it.
    Fair enough.
    Watch out NACi will be following like a puppy on the forum soon and sending love notes until you tell him no for the tenth time. He gets a real bro love going at times. He got upset when I ignored him is why he finally left me alone. 



    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

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