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10% Tax Cut for Middle Income Earners?

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  • MelbourneMarkMelbourneMark Posts: 2,200 Captain
    frank said:
    Its hard to accurately quantify how much of the "good economy" is a result of the tax cuts.  But, it did appear that many larger corporations did pass some "savings" down the line..  

    I personally think our entire tax system is a fraud.  I think their should be zero tax for corporations/personal.  We should have a national sales tax(with exemptions).  But, both parties won't be able to dole out "favors" 
    If you want to do away with the income taxes, we have to stop the endless wars, after all the rationale for income tax is funding war
    Id end the wars tomm if I could.  and, close down 3/4 of the bases around the world too.  IF, we have friends that need our military help; then they can pay us back somehow.  There is not another nation that would eff with our nation now or in the near future.  

  • nuevowavonuevowavo Posts: 6,823 Admin
    How cute....all this feigned outrage over debt from the same folks who applauded as the last admin added $9Trillion to the debt in 8 years. Whhhhhaaaa!!
    You mean all the acceptance of debt and deficit spending from those who railed against it for 8 years?
    As I said, borrow when times are lean, pay it back when things are good.
    Federales, bring my baby back to me!
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,011 AG
    You and me both, Mark.  I agree.
  • FinfinderFinfinder Posts: 9,999 Admiral
    edited October 2018 #35
    nuevowavo said:
    How cute....all this feigned outrage over debt from the same folks who applauded as the last admin added $9Trillion to the debt in 8 years. Whhhhhaaaa!!
    You mean all the acceptance of debt and deficit spending from those who railed against it for 8 years?
    As I said, borrow when times are lean, pay it back when things are good.


    How workable were the Dems when it came time pass a budget?

    I believe they were preoccupied with using the 'Dreamers" as pawns at the time.   
  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 6,665 Admiral
    edited October 2018 #36
    How cute....all this feigned outrage over debt from the same folks who applauded as the last admin added $9Trillion to the debt in 8 years. Whhhhhaaaa!!
    7.5 trillion, and I had a problem with that as well.  This administration will be adding roughly 3 trillion in 4 years.  Not quite on pace, but close to the previous administration.  If a second term becomes reality, I suspect this administration will in fact pass the previous.  I do note the other day you said 10 trillion, I pointed out it was 7.5, now you have backed off to 9...  you are getting close.  Maybe if I point out your inaccuracy a couple more times...   


    “When you're good at something, you'll tell everyone. When you're great at something, they'll tell you.”

    -Walter Payton
  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 6,665 Admiral
    edited October 2018 #37
    nuevowavo said:
    Cutting taxes in a strong economy is about the stupidest thing we can do, economically. That's something to save for an economic turndown, just like cutting interest rates.
    We're going to have another recession, probably by 2020, and the ability of the Fed to ease us out of it will be severely hampered by the amount of debt incurred by the last tax cut and the unconstrained spending of this Congress.
    You should pay down your debt when times are good, so that you can borrow when you need to in hard times. And it is total b.s. that "the tax cut will pay for itself", just like the belief that corporations would use their tax savings for massive hiring.
    Your kids and grandkids are going to owe the money that the corporations and wealthy individuals received in the last cut, and that you would receive if this one is enacted.
    But there's not going to be any cut - it's purely a political carrot being dangled in front of voters. There's a snowball's chance in hell of it getting passed - even the current clowns in congress know how much it would add so much to the deficit and debt. Notice that virtually no one is campaigning on the "success" of the last one.

    As for the spending problem, we've finally put the rest the silly notion that one party spends more than the other. Congress has no appetite for spending cuts. Besides, the real savings are in entitlement reform, and you haven't seen that seriously proposed since Bush brought it up.
    Of course tax cuts don't pay for themselves.  The entire concept is laughably stupid.  Making up a scenario, but if I had debt problems, I could only imagine telling my wife I am going to quit my job (e.g. bring in less money) because it will help pay our debt off.  I honestly have no idea why people think bringing in less money equates to less debt...  especially since we cannot even afford our current annual budget. 

    Debt, check
    Deficit, check
    Solution, bring in less money
    Winning?    


    “When you're good at something, you'll tell everyone. When you're great at something, they'll tell you.”

    -Walter Payton
  • MelbourneMarkMelbourneMark Posts: 2,200 Captain
    There is such a thing as taxing too much...; if hi taxes stagnate the economy, then the govt will receive less tax revenue overall...  

    IF they lower the taxes, then the economy might boom, and thus receive more in taxes...  

    Some european countries lowered their corp tax rate(Ireland); thus encouraging enormous growth in their economies.  

    Perhaps, we could lower our corp tax rate to zero, and have continue similar growth, and more jobs back in the US.  
  • Reel TealReel Teal Posts: 3,962 Captain
    Solution, spend less than we take in currently. Then spend what we tax our citizens, not a penny more.

    Keep infrastructure and national security. Cut social programs and entitlements.
  • ScminnowScminnow Posts: 4,103 Captain
    But I want lake o to be fixed and I want a bunch of money thrown at reducing red tide. See how hard it is?
  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,346 AG
    To add to the deficit in bad times is a necessity, to add to it in good times is folly. 

    We also need to fund projects for the public good that will only get done by government. 
  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,487 AG
    The only way real progress will ever be made toward lowering our ridiculous deficit and debt is the complete overhaul of our entitlement programs and the bloated nature of the federal government. 

    Anything else is simply trivial and meaningless. 
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • frankfrank Posts: 13,292 AG
    fins4me said:
    The only way real progress will ever be made toward lowering our ridiculous deficit and debt is the complete overhaul of our entitlement programs and the bloated nature of the federal government. 

    Anything else is simply trivial and meaningless. 
    Our overseas footprint dwarves all domestic programs
  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,487 AG
    edited October 2018 #44
    frank said:
    fins4me said:
    The only way real progress will ever be made toward lowering our ridiculous deficit and debt is the complete overhaul of our entitlement programs and the bloated nature of the federal government. 

    Anything else is simply trivial and meaningless. 
    Our overseas footprint dwarves all domestic programs
    I have no issue with the elimination of almost all international handouts and bringing most of our military home. 

    The simple truth is that the US government has around 200 trillion in unfunded liabilities that we will be facing in the coming decades.  These have nothing to do with international waste but are instead the results of entitlement run amuck. 
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • treemanjohntreemanjohn Posts: 5,135 Admiral
    Add to the deficit. Make it hurt. Throw in term limits also Mr President
    We’re like the piggy bank that everybody is robbing, and that ends
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 33,389 AG
    fins4me said:
    The only way real progress will ever be made toward lowering our ridiculous deficit and debt is the complete overhaul of our entitlement programs and the bloated nature of the federal government. 

    Anything else is simply trivial and meaningless. 
    I agree that entitlements need to be addressed. I have said many times we need to raise the retirement age, means test SS benefits, and raise the payroll tax to stabilize social security. The problem is the republicans who are currently in control won't address this or any spending cuts at all, in spite of being the party that said they would cut government spending. 

    All they want to do is lower taxes and increase the deficit that they opposed for 8 years. Forget about lowering or rasing taxes until you address spending. 

    Social Security and medicare should be fixed so it is fully funded for the next 50 years. The rest of spending needs to be frozen for 2 years and only increased by the amount of inflation each year. Revenue then needs to be balanced with spending whether that means a tax cut or a tax increase. 

    I wonder where they stand on the balanced budget proposal they wanted a few years back?


    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 33,389 AG
    i just found out the parade got cancelled. 

    I am so sad, 

     Next thing you know Space Force will be under Air Force control. 


    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • dragon baitdragon bait Posts: 9,254 Admiral
    Didn't we already have a middle class tax cut, I'm sure I heard about one last year
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,011 AG
    edited October 2018 #51
    What was wrong with the world when Clinton ran things?

    It seems to me that things worked just fine, that's if you can get past your dislike of anything Clinton or democratic in nature.

    Tax structures were about the same (but the details different).  So were entitlements (although the end of the coffers weren't quite as close).  So was the overall size of government.

    What's the big difference between then and now?

    Anyone wanna guess?

    HINT: It involves less wars and more taxes on the rich and corporations.
  • treemanjohntreemanjohn Posts: 5,135 Admiral
    Didn't we already have a middle class tax cut, I'm sure I heard about one last year
    Yes for 17. One of my employees refund was $7000. It was a big help for a single mom. She get close to $160/week more now. Aint bad
    We’re like the piggy bank that everybody is robbing, and that ends
  • MelbourneMarkMelbourneMark Posts: 2,200 Captain
    What was wrong with the world when Clinton ran things?

    It seems to me that things worked just fine, that's if you can get past your dislike of anything Clinton or democratic in nature.

    Tax structures were about the same (but the details different).  So were entitlements (although the end of the coffers weren't quite as close).  So was the overall size of government.

    What's the big difference between then and now?

    Anyone wanna guess?

    HINT: It involves less wars and more taxes on the rich and corporations.
    I recall congress(repubs) shut down the govt for a few months; to force a balanced budget... (the last one in ~20+years i Believe) 

    Clinton also benefitted from the "tech bubble" while he was in the WH..  Im not blaming him, but a bad prez will look good as long as the economy is doing well... *cough trump..cough?*    Bush2 also enjoyed the housing boom, and then bust as he was leaving office.. 

    I honestly think things "worked" because partisan politics was so much less.. Perhaps, I am mistaken, but I do not recall a time when votes for everything were literally split down party lines.  

    As for wars... when has the US not been at war?
    Taxes... any tax placed upon corporations, is only payed by the consumer.. the tax system is so convoluted, its disgusting.  I would abolish all of it, and have a flat national sales tax.. but thats just me.  
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,011 AG
    edited October 2018 #54
    Clinton was a bit lucky, Mark.  You're right to point that out.

    Things were much less partisan then too.  Another good point I think.

    The balanced budget and congressional shutdown also contributed.

    It would also be fair to say that our military budget has stayed relatively flat between then and now as a % of budget, and the entire budget is bloated.

    However I just don't see a way to get around this graph:



    And the obvious comparison:  We spend almost as much now as when we were fighting World War 2 -- a war that was fought and finished across two continents and the two largest oceans and concluded much, much faster.

    Thanks for your response.
  • MelbourneMarkMelbourneMark Posts: 2,200 Captain
    "beware the military industrial complex"....   
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,011 AG
    edited October 2018 #56
    Didn't we already have a middle class tax cut, I'm sure I heard about one last year
    Yes for 17. One of my employees refund was $7000. It was a big help for a single mom. She get close to $160/week more now. Aint bad
    She went from paying before to a $7k refund?

    I'd love to know how that works, and good for her.
  • MelbourneMarkMelbourneMark Posts: 2,200 Captain
    Pretty much sums up our problems imho.  

    Just think about all the countries that do not HAVE to pay for "defense"... many of them have hugggeee "social" programs..  I am not an advocate of cradle-to-grave govt "help"... But, i can't blame them for enjoying it as they don't have to finance the defense of their areas..  

    I am no trump fan, but I did like how he called out other nato countries on paying their "fair-share".. 
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,011 AG
    edited October 2018 #58
    Mark,

    It's like saying I have a drinking problem then blaming my drinking buddies for not paying their share of the tab.

    I'm right in that everyone should be paying their fair share, but the real issue is my drinking problem.  

    It's quite the misdirection in fact.  He's very adept at that.  Con men are generally, but I question their motives, and this is no different (to me at least).

    But none of that changes the fact that we have a defense spending problem (among others).

    Have a good evening...Mike
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 10,104 AG
    Cyclist said:
    Are we not happy with a trillion dollar deficit...is it not enough?

    Now is the time to raise taxes and fill our coffers. Maybe just to the levels that the ronnie raygun republicans were happy with...
    You also believe in unicorns and fairies. 
    There is no revenue problem, only a wasteful spending problem. 
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 10,104 AG
    Cyclist said:
    Reel Teal said:
    We can always cut spending....in fact that's the best way to get out of debt. 
    Start with the new nuclear arms race trump is creating and maybe the space force....and about 50% of the rest of the existing defense budget.
    How about eliminating a lot of federal agencies, departments and employees? Consolidate as many of them and make them more efficient. 
    And return a lot of things back to the states where they belong. 
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 10,104 AG
    kellercl said:
    How cute....all this feigned outrage over debt from the same folks who applauded as the last admin added $9Trillion to the debt in 8 years. Whhhhhaaaa!!
    7.5 trillion, and I had a problem with that as well.  This administration will be adding roughly 3 trillion in 4 years.  Not quite on pace, but close to the previous administration.  If a second term becomes reality, I suspect this administration will in fact pass the previous.  I do note the other day you said 10 trillion, I pointed out it was 7.5, now you have backed off to 9...  you are getting close.  Maybe if I point out your inaccuracy a couple more times...   
    actually it is Congress not a president. Congress controls the purse. 
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