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Good Shoot?

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  • Westwall01Westwall01 Posts: 5,453 Admiral
    He wasn't threatening.  
    Store owner/commissioner is screwed.
    There's video.


    Best to wait for the investigation to be completed and then render a decision
    You mean go against typical forum protocol???

    I know, right....
  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,487 AG
    edited October 2018 #33

    fins4me said:
    Ax murder spree preempted.
    The presumption of innocence waves an ironic hello.
    He is at the very least a thief, ,, not innocent.
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 6,662 Admiral
    I"m sure a homeless guy in the middle of a city had nothing but good intentions with a hatchet...  He probably wanted to help cleanup the city after the hurricane?


    “When you're good at something, you'll tell everyone. When you're great at something, they'll tell you.”

    -Walter Payton
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 33,329 AG
    cadman said:
    Here is a better video of the event, 

    https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000006162313/lakeland-shooting-surveillance-video.html

    The hatchet was in his right hand, but I  don't think he should have shot the guy since all the guy was doing was running away. He was not attempting to fight the store owner.. Plus, why would you confront a shoplifter with a gun drawn,.If you are that scared, just call the police over the hatchet, don't confront the guy with a gun drawn, 

    It will be interesting to see how the State Attorney handles the case. Not even sure how he can claim he was in fear of his life when the guy was running away from him, 

    I agree, but a good lawyer could deal with any charges pretty easily in this case, if it is as it appears.The merchant has the right to stop and confront the perp and is not required to back down. The perp has no right to resist a merchant and no right to commit theft. When confronted the perp has stolen property which can cause serious bodily injury or death and he has easy access to do so (in his right hand) though he does not appear to have the intent to cause physical harm.  Having a fear for ones safety is subjective and can really only be determined by that person in question, within reason. Charges could follow, but that doesn't mean a conviction would follow as well.
    I am not saying he would be convicted, but the law says he must  reasonably believes that using  such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself. I am not sure he could convince a jury he was reasonably in fear of his life, Would a reasonable person in the same situation believe his life was in danger? I am not sure he would. I don't think a judge would let Stand Your Ground apply and he would face a jury trial, but I am likely wrong, 

    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 11,748 AG
    firewood, was gonna lift hisself out of poverty cutting and selling firewood with that hatchet..

    like always, whitey keepin the darker brother down!

    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • Turner River TerrorTurner River Terror Posts: 8,085 Admiral
    Sooo. In Summary , We're got a dead Homeless Felon stealing a dangerous Weapon..and the Storekeeper has his merchandise he paid good money for back.
    Good Shoot..screw him.
    Some Folks need killin.
    Killin and Grillin :grin
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,011 AG
    fins4me said:

    fins4me said:
    Ax murder spree preempted.
    The presumption of innocence waves an ironic hello.
    He is at the very least a thief, ,, not innocent.
    You mean he is an alleged thief....and the last time I checked execution was not an appropriate punishment for misdemeanors.

    Nobody said he was innocent, but due process is afforded to us all.

    Or at least to some of us some of the time.
  • Westwall01Westwall01 Posts: 5,453 Admiral
    cadman said:
    cadman said:
    Here is a better video of the event, 

    https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000006162313/lakeland-shooting-surveillance-video.html

    The hatchet was in his right hand, but I  don't think he should have shot the guy since all the guy was doing was running away. He was not attempting to fight the store owner.. Plus, why would you confront a shoplifter with a gun drawn,.If you are that scared, just call the police over the hatchet, don't confront the guy with a gun drawn, 

    It will be interesting to see how the State Attorney handles the case. Not even sure how he can claim he was in fear of his life when the guy was running away from him, 

    I agree, but a good lawyer could deal with any charges pretty easily in this case, if it is as it appears.The merchant has the right to stop and confront the perp and is not required to back down. The perp has no right to resist a merchant and no right to commit theft. When confronted the perp has stolen property which can cause serious bodily injury or death and he has easy access to do so (in his right hand) though he does not appear to have the intent to cause physical harm.  Having a fear for ones safety is subjective and can really only be determined by that person in question, within reason. Charges could follow, but that doesn't mean a conviction would follow as well.
    I am not saying he would be convicted, but the law says he must  reasonably believes that using  such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself. I am not sure he could convince a jury he was reasonably in fear of his life, Would a reasonable person in the same situation believe his life was in danger? I am not sure he would. I don't think a judge would let Stand Your Ground apply and he would face a jury trial, but I am likely wrong, 

    Would only have to convince a jury. Defense lawyers understand that they can sway the facts of any case and cause confusion in a juror to render a verdict that may or may not be consistent with the facts. Only takes one juror to say "Dude is a POS for stealing - who cares".  
  • Mister-JrMister-Jr Posts: 27,763 AG
    cadman said:
    cadman said:
    Here is a better video of the event, 

    https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000006162313/lakeland-shooting-surveillance-video.html

    The hatchet was in his right hand, but I  don't think he should have shot the guy since all the guy was doing was running away. He was not attempting to fight the store owner.. Plus, why would you confront a shoplifter with a gun drawn,.If you are that scared, just call the police over the hatchet, don't confront the guy with a gun drawn, 

    It will be interesting to see how the State Attorney handles the case. Not even sure how he can claim he was in fear of his life when the guy was running away from him, 

    I agree, but a good lawyer could deal with any charges pretty easily in this case, if it is as it appears.The merchant has the right to stop and confront the perp and is not required to back down. The perp has no right to resist a merchant and no right to commit theft. When confronted the perp has stolen property which can cause serious bodily injury or death and he has easy access to do so (in his right hand) though he does not appear to have the intent to cause physical harm.  Having a fear for ones safety is subjective and can really only be determined by that person in question, within reason. Charges could follow, but that doesn't mean a conviction would follow as well.
    I am not saying he would be convicted, but the law says he must  reasonably believes that using  such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself. I am not sure he could convince a jury he was reasonably in fear of his life, Would a reasonable person in the same situation believe his life was in danger? I am not sure he would. I don't think a judge would let Stand Your Ground apply and he would face a jury trial, but I am likely wrong, 
    I'm thinking the guy was a real idiot for taking that chance over a $20 hatchet.  WTH is wrong with people?
    Vote for the other candidate
  • swampwalkerswampwalker Posts: 2,359 Captain
    Sounds like we've done the "jury" part on here so can vote and save everyone a lot of expense on the trial. I don't believe it was a justified shoot and would've reported the theft. Wonder if commish has had any other issues at store...
    The original - "Renaissance Redneck"
  • surfmansurfman WC FLPosts: 5,982 Admiral
    The commissioner is going to have a tough time with this one, too bad for him there is a video.
    Tight Lines, Steve
    My posts are my opinion only.

    Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.  Will Rogers
  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 6,662 Admiral
    edited October 2018 #43
    Mister-Jr said:
    cadman said:
    cadman said:
    Here is a better video of the event, 

    https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000006162313/lakeland-shooting-surveillance-video.html

    The hatchet was in his right hand, but I  don't think he should have shot the guy since all the guy was doing was running away. He was not attempting to fight the store owner.. Plus, why would you confront a shoplifter with a gun drawn,.If you are that scared, just call the police over the hatchet, don't confront the guy with a gun drawn, 

    It will be interesting to see how the State Attorney handles the case. Not even sure how he can claim he was in fear of his life when the guy was running away from him, 

    I agree, but a good lawyer could deal with any charges pretty easily in this case, if it is as it appears.The merchant has the right to stop and confront the perp and is not required to back down. The perp has no right to resist a merchant and no right to commit theft. When confronted the perp has stolen property which can cause serious bodily injury or death and he has easy access to do so (in his right hand) though he does not appear to have the intent to cause physical harm.  Having a fear for ones safety is subjective and can really only be determined by that person in question, within reason. Charges could follow, but that doesn't mean a conviction would follow as well.
    I am not saying he would be convicted, but the law says he must  reasonably believes that using  such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself. I am not sure he could convince a jury he was reasonably in fear of his life, Would a reasonable person in the same situation believe his life was in danger? I am not sure he would. I don't think a judge would let Stand Your Ground apply and he would face a jury trial, but I am likely wrong, 
    I'm thinking the guy was a real idiot for taking that chance over a $20 hatchet.  WTH is wrong with people?
    I honestly don't know which idiot you are referring too.  The idiot who shot a guy over a $20 hatchet or the idiot that continued to steal a $20 hatchet despite having a gun pointed at him? 


    “When you're good at something, you'll tell everyone. When you're great at something, they'll tell you.”

    -Walter Payton
  • mplspugmplspug Palmetto FloridaPosts: 12,873 AG
    I might have a different opinion if the commish didn't know what he was shoplifting until the door.

    Captain Todd Approves

  • pottydocpottydoc Port Saint JoePosts: 4,132 Captain
    Mister-Jr said:
    cadman said:
    cadman said:
    Here is a better video of the event, 

    https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000006162313/lakeland-shooting-surveillance-video.html

    The hatchet was in his right hand, but I  don't think he should have shot the guy since all the guy was doing was running away. He was not attempting to fight the store owner.. Plus, why would you confront a shoplifter with a gun drawn,.If you are that scared, just call the police over the hatchet, don't confront the guy with a gun drawn, 

    It will be interesting to see how the State Attorney handles the case. Not even sure how he can claim he was in fear of his life when the guy was running away from him, 

    I agree, but a good lawyer could deal with any charges pretty easily in this case, if it is as it appears.The merchant has the right to stop and confront the perp and is not required to back down. The perp has no right to resist a merchant and no right to commit theft. When confronted the perp has stolen property which can cause serious bodily injury or death and he has easy access to do so (in his right hand) though he does not appear to have the intent to cause physical harm.  Having a fear for ones safety is subjective and can really only be determined by that person in question, within reason. Charges could follow, but that doesn't mean a conviction would follow as well.
    I am not saying he would be convicted, but the law says he must  reasonably believes that using  such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself. I am not sure he could convince a jury he was reasonably in fear of his life, Would a reasonable person in the same situation believe his life was in danger? I am not sure he would. I don't think a judge would let Stand Your Ground apply and he would face a jury trial, but I am likely wrong, 
    I'm thinking the guy was a real idiot for taking that chance over a $20 hatchet.  WTH is wrong with people?
    I would agree with that. For both the thief and the commish. Someone points a gun at me, I’m getting on the floor and staying there. On the other side, protecting your property is one thing, shooting someone over shoplifting is another. I don’t think he will get to claim stand your ground, but I doubt he gets convicted of anything. I’m all about protecting my family and/or our stuff, but I don’t think I’m shooting a guy to stop him from stealing from me. Unless it was my boat, then I’m gonna hose him. :)
  • Eddy dEddy d Posts: 292 Deckhand
    Here is my take as a shop owner, Shoplifters don't get the gun pointed at them unless they are coming in brandishing a weapon. at that point they are not shoplifters. Shoplifters get locked inside until they give me my stuff back. Most of them say they are sorry and try to walk out, I usually ask them to empty their pockets. 
    Big Game Liquors.com :Glass
  • Eddy dEddy d Posts: 292 Deckhand
    It can get really expensive to defend yourself over killing a shoplifter.  
    Big Game Liquors.com :Glass
  • RStyleRStyle Posts: 1,488 Officer
    Sooo. In Summary , We're got a dead Homeless Felon stealing a dangerous Weapon..and the Storekeeper has his merchandise he paid good money for back.
    Good Shoot..screw him.
    Some Folks need killin.
    A dangerous Weapon. What it would have been a hammer...or a wrench. Maybe stealing a gun which is just a tool.
    A shovel?................ Maybe something that could be a potentially dangerous weapon although he does not appear to be using or threatening anyone with it  Maybe he wanted to clear his homeless camp.
    Save the "killing' for people that commit the real crimes.
  • SaltygatorvetSaltygatorvet TallahasseePosts: 5,808 Admiral
    Sooo. In Summary , We're got a dead Homeless Felon stealing a dangerous Weapon..and the Storekeeper has his merchandise he paid good money for back.
    Good Shoot..screw him.
    Some Folks need killin.
    We haven’t ruled you out of that pool yet ;)
    You should have been here yesterday
  • Turner River TerrorTurner River Terror Posts: 8,085 Admiral
    Just tryin to make the World a better place...winning..
    Killin and Grillin :grin
  • Billy No MatesBilly No Mates Posts: 3,191 Captain
    Just tryin to make the World a better place...winning..
    By killing all thieves? Try some common sense next time you try to "save the world". Good thing you aren't in charge.
  • dave44dave44 Posts: 11,765 AG
    Just tryin to make the World a better place...winning..
    TRT for president! 
  • dragon baitdragon bait Posts: 9,247 Admiral
    dave44 said:
    Just tryin to make the World a better place...winning..
    TRT for president! 
    of the trailer park 
  • Turner River TerrorTurner River Terror Posts: 8,085 Admiral
    Just tryin to make the World a better place...winning..
    By killing all thieves? Try some common sense next time you try to "save the world". Good thing you aren't in charge.
    NO  , Not all thieves..In Summary...again..
    Felon , 50 plus years old , Homeless...Ya , Let's Rehab him. Maybe some College , Trade School ..He'll straighten right up all he needs is a chance.
    Face it , Your That age and your still a scumbag...Good Shoot.
    Killin and Grillin :grin
  • Billy No MatesBilly No Mates Posts: 3,191 Captain
    Just tryin to make the World a better place...winning..
    By killing all thieves? Try some common sense next time you try to "save the world". Good thing you aren't in charge.
    NO  , Not all thieves..In Summary...again..
    Felon , 50 plus years old , Homeless...Ya , Let's Rehab him. Maybe some College , Trade School ..He'll straighten right up all he needs is a chance.
    Face it , Your That age and your still a scumbag...Good Shoot.
    I thought good shoot meant justified. I don't see any justification. Not a good shoot for the commissioner if he goes to prison.
  • Reel TealReel Teal Posts: 3,962 Captain
    Oh so we get 2 people no one likes off the street. No big deal. No one likes homeless guys with hatchets and city commissioners are crooks
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,011 AG

    Just tryin to make the World a better place...winning..
    By killing all thieves? Try some common sense next time you try to "save the world". Good thing you aren't in charge.
    NO  , Not all thieves..In Summary...again..
    Felon , 50 plus years old , Homeless...Ya , Let's Rehab him. Maybe some College , Trade School ..He'll straighten right up all he needs is a chance.
    Face it , Your That age and your still a scumbag...Good Shoot.
    So, 50 year old homelss felons deserve that, but a 24 year old in the same shoes doesn't?

    I'm not sure that's a society that I'd like to face, or the world would really be a better place if it did, but we are all entitled to our own opinions.

    There's a reason for equal justice under the law and the presumption of innocence, even if you don't necessarily value it.
  • pottydocpottydoc Port Saint JoePosts: 4,132 Captain
    STarponator said:



    There's a reason for equal justice under the law and the presumption of innocence, even if you don't necessarily value it. Unless, of course, you are accused of sexual assault. Then you are obviously guilty. 
    Fixed it for you Tarp. 
    I guess you have different views, depending on what someone is accused of. 🙄

  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,011 AG
    edited October 2018 #59
    If you really were fixing it for me, then surely you'd be able to point to a post where I have suggested much less said anything to the contrary.

    You guessed wrong and are making things up.

    But perhaps you're just confused -- that seems to be going around today, and I wouldn't want to presume your guilt without giving you the benefit of the doubt.  :)
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 33,329 AG
    pottydoc said:
    STarponator said:



    There's a reason for equal justice under the law and the presumption of innocence, even if you don't necessarily value it. Unless, of course, you are accused of sexual assault. Then you are obviously guilty. 
    Fixed it for you Tarp. 
    I guess you have different views, depending on what someone is accused of. 🙄

    Much like this guy is being tried in the court of public opinion, so can others. But in a criminal proceeding, both would be innocent until proven guilty. What the public thinks of you and what is legal rights are two different things, s we see here. 

    Also, did someone get shot because they were accused of sexual assault? I missed that news story.

    Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

  • swampwalkerswampwalker Posts: 2,359 Captain
    One last thing was, the commish grabbed onto the guy going out the door. If I was standing my ground I'd be a little less on the offense. 
    The original - "Renaissance Redneck"
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