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Florida's polluted waters

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  • pottydocpottydoc Port Saint JoePosts: 4,067 Captain
    surfman said:
    Now they are seeing red tide on the east coast.  :/
    Red tide has been appearing on the east coast longer than most of you have lived here. The Gulf coast also, for that matter. 
  • MRichardsonMRichardson Posts: 10,438 AG
    pottydoc said:
    surfman said:
    Now they are seeing red tide on the east coast.  :/
    Red tide has been appearing on the east coast longer than most of you have lived here. The Gulf coast also, for that matter. 
    Yep everything's perfectly fine
    I have never seen live bones, but I know that they are often used by rich people to decorate the interior.
  • EnyarEnyar Posts: 101 Deckhand
    pottydoc said:
    surfman said:
    Now they are seeing red tide on the east coast.  :/
    Red tide has been appearing on the east coast longer than most of you have lived here. The Gulf coast also, for that matter. 
    I keep seeing this comment pop up on the forums and I am wondering why. Everyone is well aware of what causes the red tide. Most people are also aware that once red tide is pushed closer to the coast that it thrives off  human contributed nutrients....especially following a particularly wet year with a lot of storm water run off (remember those hurricanes last year?).  Just because it's happened in the past doesn't mean that the frequency and intensity we are seeing now is natural.
  • mplspugmplspug Palmetto FloridaPosts: 12,595 AG
    Maybe we should stop creating hurricanes.

    I could care less if we intensify red tide because regardless, those canals coming from lake O are nasty green and brown once they hit the ICW, so in that respect something needs to be done.  

    I read something from a MOTE scientist who said red tide is complex and they are sure how much of an effect man made nutrients have.  So I would caution being laser focused in that respect because there may be a bigger issue at play.

    Captain Todd Approves

  • Cane PoleCane Pole Stuart, FLAPosts: 9,922 Admiral
    Only thing that would clean up our waters is 40 below Zero , Howling Noreasters , 20 ft. of Snowfall every couple months and Earthquakes that only happen below Orlando...winning..
    Well, actually it has always cleared up in the past around November or December when cooler waters arrive. That's part of the problem though, because when it clears up, people forget all about it and dont protest at all.

    I'm not so sure it's gonna clear up this year.
    Live music 7 nights a week: http://www.terrafermata.com/_events
  • EnyarEnyar Posts: 101 Deckhand
    mplspug said:
    Maybe we should stop creating hurricanes.

    I could care less if we intensify red tide because regardless, those canals coming from lake O are nasty green and brown once they hit the ICW, so in that respect something needs to be done.  

    I read something from a MOTE scientist who said red tide is complex and they are sure how much of an effect man made nutrients have.  So I would caution being laser focused in that respect because there may be a bigger issue at play.
    That's the spirit. I'm allowed to contribute to the cause because others contribute MORE so why bother the little guy. What you don't realize is that canal water from Lake O is made up of thousands of people saying the same thing.

    Sure there are a lot of unknowns but there is 100% upside and 0% downside to being a better environmental steward.  Why not give it a try?
  • surfmansurfman WC FLPosts: 5,982 Admiral
    edited October 2018 #38
    Some people think we are trying to say that humans caused red tide and it was never here until humans were around, but, I am pretty sure algae was here way before humans were, just saying...

    Actually, I'm not really sure what they are trying to say?
    Tight Lines, Steve
    My posts are my opinion only.

    Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.  Will Rogers
  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,346 AG
    edited October 2018 #39
    surfman said:
    Some people think we are trying to say that humans caused red tide and it was never here until humans were around, but, I am pretty sure algae was here way before humans were, just saying...

    Actually, I'm not really sure what they are trying to say?
    Poor planning causes nutrient issues which make it worse. And we do have warmer water too. All due to a large population....of humans....
  • surfmansurfman WC FLPosts: 5,982 Admiral
    Basically I have said that humans are contributors and I get the old red tide has been around forever routine? Okay, so what, No duh!
    Tight Lines, Steve
    My posts are my opinion only.

    Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.  Will Rogers
  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,346 AG
    surfman said:
    Basically I have said that humans are contributors and I get the old red tide has been around forever routine? Okay, so what, No duh!
    Ok. So what? We need to fix the situation...
  • TrevfishinTrevfishin In my mind I'm in my kayak fishing, unfortunately physically I'm at work :(Posts: 722 Officer
    Can ya sue the State of Florida, Army Corp and the Feds for mismanagement of natural resources and failure to protect the best interests of the residents of Florida?  

    Beats the hell out of blowing up the ****. 

    Just saying. It’s the governments job to protect the citizens from unusual harm. Something they have failed to do. 

    Ive seen people win lawsuits with less!!
  • mplspugmplspug Palmetto FloridaPosts: 12,595 AG
    Enyar said:
    mplspug said:
    Maybe we should stop creating hurricanes.

    I could care less if we intensify red tide because regardless, those canals coming from lake O are nasty green and brown once they hit the ICW, so in that respect something needs to be done.  

    I read something from a MOTE scientist who said red tide is complex and they are sure how much of an effect man made nutrients have.  So I would caution being laser focused in that respect because there may be a bigger issue at play.
    That's the spirit. I'm allowed to contribute to the cause because others contribute MORE so why bother the little guy. What you don't realize is that canal water from Lake O is made up of thousands of people saying the same thing.

    Sure there are a lot of unknowns but there is 100% upside and 0% downside to being a better environmental steward.  Why not give it a try?
    I'm not sure I follow you or you got what I said,  I did say the green algae that leads to brown tide needs to be addressed.

    Captain Todd Approves

  • surfmansurfman WC FLPosts: 5,982 Admiral
    Yes, a lot has been done but obviously not enough, you can't build a building without some sort of runoff collection/retention area. This helps but is not working well enough. I know there are a lot of septic systems out there but surely all the new construction where huge developments are put in are on some sort of sewer system? I have not researched that any. Still I see lakes go pea green as soon as houses start to be built on them all the time. Lakes that were clean and clear when I was a kid are now pea soup. It really sucks.
    Tight Lines, Steve
    My posts are my opinion only.

    Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.  Will Rogers
  • GardawgGardawg Posts: 9,810 Admiral
    We need an Environmental Protection Agency. 

    That works to protect the environment and not corporate profits.
    “Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves.

    Heres Tom with the Weather.”
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 10,104 AG
    Gardawg said:
    We need an Environmental Protection Agency. 

    That works to protect the environment and not corporate profits.
    Like this EPA?
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/brighammccown/2015/09/16/epa-animas-river-spill/amp/
  • mplspugmplspug Palmetto FloridaPosts: 12,595 AG
    I think it is possible that livestock farms play a bigger role than most would think too.  A response to that might be, well we have had cattle farms and other livestock going way back and never had an algae problem them.  But the problem is new construction is a catalyst for exasperating the pollution problem as there is a big decrease in buffers and water is actually channeled and directed to the canal that eventually flow to the coasts.  Man directs water and runoff and less and less is allowed to seep into the ground and where is does seep into the ground it is less effective at filtering because of the new construction and developments, not to mention those developments increase the load of nutrients that need to be filtered. 

    Captain Todd Approves

  • surfmansurfman WC FLPosts: 5,982 Admiral
    You mean feed lots as opposed to pasture land? I can see that but, aren't they regulated to not allow water to leave the property as well? I have lived in FL all my life, 62 years and all the land that I once knew as farm land is now developed, including cow pasture. Something has changed and I don't think farming is the problem.
    Tight Lines, Steve
    My posts are my opinion only.

    Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.  Will Rogers
  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,346 AG
    surfman said:
    You mean feed lots as opposed to pasture land? I can see that but, aren't they regulated to not allow water to leave the property as well? I have lived in FL all my life, 62 years and all the land that I once knew as farm land is now developed, including cow pasture. Something has changed and I don't think farming is the problem.
    It is in the Suwannee basin. And center pivot irrigation is having big impacts as well.'

    Recently in NC and SC most of the pig, chicken and cow operations in the flooded areas lost their sewage lagoons to flood waters.
  • MRichardsonMRichardson Posts: 10,438 AG
    Ew.  Sewage lagoons - that sounds terrible.
    At least the farmers will have fresh lagoons when they get back on their feet.
    I have never seen live bones, but I know that they are often used by rich people to decorate the interior.
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 10,104 AG
    Get in an airplane and fly over central Florida and you will see the problem. Or get on google earth satellite and scroll around.
     It's not agriculture.
  • TrevfishinTrevfishin In my mind I'm in my kayak fishing, unfortunately physically I'm at work :(Posts: 722 Officer
  • pottydocpottydoc Port Saint JoePosts: 4,067 Captain
    Enyar said:
    pottydoc said:
    surfman said:
    Now they are seeing red tide on the east coast.  :/
    Red tide has been appearing on the east coast longer than most of you have lived here. The Gulf coast also, for that matter. 
    I keep seeing this comment pop up on the forums and I am wondering why. Everyone is well aware of what causes the red tide. Most people are also aware that once red tide is pushed closer to the coast that it thrives off  human contributed nutrients....especially following a particularly wet year with a lot of storm water run off (remember those hurricanes last year?).  Just because it's happened in the past doesn't mean that the frequency and intensity we are seeing now is natural.
    Maybe you would like to post some pictures evidence to back up what “most people are aware “ of. It might be, actually probably is true, but vevhavent seen anynvidnce to prove it. I see lots of send it South folks claiming it’s so, but zero evidence from an independent lab. Like Mote, who has done extensive research on it. And I hardly think one occurance on the east coast proves anything. 
  • Billy No MatesBilly No Mates Posts: 3,187 Captain
    Enyar said:
    pottydoc said:
    surfman said:
    Now they are seeing red tide on the east coast.  :/
    Red tide has been appearing on the east coast longer than most of you have lived here. The Gulf coast also, for that matter. 
    Everyone is well aware of what causes the red tide.
    The scientists say they have no idea. Enlighten us what everyone knows already.
  • pottydocpottydoc Port Saint JoePosts: 4,067 Captain
    Cane Pole said:
    Only thing that would clean up our waters is 40 below Zero , Howling Noreasters , 20 ft. of Snowfall every couple months and Earthquakes that only happen below Orlando...winning..
    Well, actually it has always cleared up in the past around November or December when cooler waters arrive. That's part of the problem though, because when it clears up, people forget all about it and dont protest at all.

    I'm not so sure it's gonna clear up this year.    
     Uhhhh, no Eric, it hasnt always cleared up in November or December. Chck the chart already posted.
  • frankfrank Posts: 13,292 AG
    Mote’s president said there is no “smoking gun,” stressing that no single person, industry or natural event is responsible for such complex blooms, which naturally occur 10 to 40 miles offshore. He said the blooms are strengthened by a host of factors, including nutrient runoff from both agricultural companies and residential activities.


    Mote says yes, human factors contribute to the worsening 
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,010 AG
    edited October 2018 #57
    Are we really questioning that when we put nutrients into the water that naturally occurring algae blooms more strongly than if we had not?

    We need a broad approach to address nutrient loading, IMO, or we should just get used to red tide and expect it will continue to get worse -- unless we address the cause of the increase.

    If we don't know or feel confident we understand it sufficiently to make those investments, then we should invest more in the science so we can understand better and proceed accordingly (or not).

    The opportunity cost of doing nothing has become too high, IMO.
  • mplspugmplspug Palmetto FloridaPosts: 12,595 AG
    "Host of factors".  That means mitigating nutrient runoff may have little effect. 

    He also said 

    Crosby said he is grateful for the much needed funding, “no matter what the timing and the political season.”

    “Pointing a finger at an individual in an elected position, in a high elected position, and saying that person is the cause of what we’re experiencing now, is not only naive, but it’s counterproductive,” he said.

    “Last time I checked, Rick Scott wasn’t governor in the 1500s, when the Spanish documented massive red tide events and fish kills along the coast,” Crosby later added.



    Captain Todd Approves

  • frankfrank Posts: 13,292 AG
    Are we really questioning that when we put nutrients into the water that naturally occurring algae blooms more strongly than if we had not?
    Some folks are

    Some folks


  • mplspugmplspug Palmetto FloridaPosts: 12,595 AG
    We know they cause green slime that ends up being brown tide once it hits salt.  We know it is part of the problem with red tide once it hits the shores.  It is one part, and even scientists will admit they don't fully understand red tide.

    Captain Todd Approves

  • EnyarEnyar Posts: 101 Deckhand
    Enyar said:
    pottydoc said:
    surfman said:
    Now they are seeing red tide on the east coast.  :/
    Red tide has been appearing on the east coast longer than most of you have lived here. The Gulf coast also, for that matter. 
    Everyone is well aware of what causes the red tide.
    The scientists say they have no idea. Enlighten us what everyone knows already.
    pottydoc said:
    Enyar said:
    pottydoc said:
    surfman said:
    Now they are seeing red tide on the east coast.  :/
    Red tide has been appearing on the east coast longer than most of you have lived here. The Gulf coast also, for that matter. 
    I keep seeing this comment pop up on the forums and I am wondering why. Everyone is well aware of what causes the red tide. Most people are also aware that once red tide is pushed closer to the coast that it thrives off  human contributed nutrients....especially following a particularly wet year with a lot of storm water run off (remember those hurricanes last year?).  Just because it's happened in the past doesn't mean that the frequency and intensity we are seeing now is natural.
    Maybe you would like to post some pictures evidence to back up what “most people are aware “ of. It might be, actually probably is true, but vevhavent seen anynvidnce to prove it. I see lots of send it South folks claiming it’s so, but zero evidence from an independent lab. Like Mote, who has done extensive research on it. And I hardly think one occurance on the east coast proves anything. 
    Pulled straight from Mote.....

    "However, once red tides are transported to shore, they are capable of using human-contributed nutrients for their growth."

    and 

    "Can coastal nutrient pollution worsen an existing Florida red tide that has moved to shore?

    Yes, the scientific data available so far suggest that it is possible for nutrients flowing from land to sea — including natural AND human-contributed nutrients carried by storm water runoff and the input of rivers — to serve as additional “food” for growth of Karenia brevis red tide blooms that have moved to shore. "



    Billy maybe you misinterpreted what I said. I agree that Red Tide is naturally occurring. That doesn't mean it doesn't get worse because of human influences. I'm simply stating that people posting that red tide has been around for centuries doesn't help the situation. People are lobbying for cleaner water and protecting our coasts which I would hope that we all agree is a good thing.


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