FWC makes Snook and Redfish catch and release only

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Replies

  • winderbillwinderbill Posts: 285 Deckhand
    edited September 2018 #32
    "Every slot fish taken is an exponential amount of potential snooklets lost. "

    Not true! Again, it's the carrying capacity of the environment that will determine how many snooklets will make it to maturity. ONE brood female can lay one and a quarter MILLION eggs per spawning episode and there can be several episodes a season. Do the math ;) and remember, biologists have found a significant number of snook living offshore that aren't touched by freezes or red tide. So I would argue there is NO amount of recreational angling that could come close to negatively affecting snook stocks, especially with the draconian limits in place today. But everyone please release your slot fish so there's more for me to fill my freezer with ;)
  • Westwall01Westwall01 Posts: 5,123 Admiral
    You could argue it, but you can't back it up with any sound science
  • mannn123mannn123 Posts: 126 Deckhand
    You could argue it, but you can't back it up with any sound science
    Read the last several snook stock assessments.  I don't know if I would state that "no amount of recreational angling could come close to negatively affecting snook stocks", but generally speaking, the recreational harvest doesn't keep populations from their desired levels even accounting for cold snaps and red tide events.  Again, if you care so much about not impacting them right now, don't target them at all.   That would be the best thing to do.

    I just feel its so hypocritical to promote catch and release of them if its that bad.  
  • Westwall01Westwall01 Posts: 5,123 Admiral
    Catch and release of Snook done properly results in very little mortality - use single hooks, circle if using natural bait, leave them in the water, take the time to revive
  • mannn123mannn123 Posts: 126 Deckhand
    All good practices that conscientious anglers employ.  However, all too often we don't see these employed by many anglers.  Further, spawning congregations on the beaches are susceptible to disruptions in spawning and predation even if released properly.  

    I agree that direct release mortality is very low when handled properly (as documented by the same studies that conclude that the recreational harvest (which includes release mortality) is not harmful to the population).  Therefore, if the fish are under such stressful conditions that the recreational harvest is deemed that undesirable, then I respectfully would say that it still seems very hypocritical to me to promote catching and releasing them.  If you are going to say "they need a break" than why encourage people to get out there and hammer the population with catch and release?
  • Westwall01Westwall01 Posts: 5,123 Admiral
    Who encouraged that "Hammering of the population?"
  • LostconchLostconch Posts: 214 Deckhand
    Fwc. If a season is closed then fishing for that fish intentionally should be closed. I know it is not enforceable but saying they are open to catch and release is not closing the season on them


  • Westwall01Westwall01 Posts: 5,123 Admiral
    Reread the executive order reference the closure. It states that it is a closure to harvest.
  • LostconchLostconch Posts: 214 Deckhand
    I know what it says I just don't know if that is enough
  • lukkyracerlukkyracer Posts: 648 Officer
    So what, lock people up for fishing???? Catch and release is and will be open for every fish that swims. If that stops, well we're ****.
  • lukkyracerlukkyracer Posts: 648 Officer
    edited September 2018 #42
    I respect westwalls opinions, but strongly disagree with the fertilizer and pesticide comment. 

    But, with that being said he may have a great point. If the landscaping and insect control goes away. A lot less people would want to live here. So yeah I like the idea actually. Less fisherman equals more  fish. Works for me.
  • lukkyracerlukkyracer Posts: 648 Officer
    I really don't get the love affair with snook. Even when fishing for snook, I'd rather catch reds.
  • mannn123mannn123 Posts: 126 Deckhand
    Who encouraged that "Hammering of the population?"
    Alright, maybe that was a little extreme.  However, in my view of CCA, etc.'s press releases  they make great effort to emphasize getting out there for "catch and release" as opposed to announcing the closed harvest and maybe emphasizing giving the fish a break??

    Westwall01
    said:
    You could argue it, but you can't back it up with any sound science
    Direct quote per 2015 (most recent) stock assessment:

    On the gulf coast the proportion of total harvest that was attributed to live-release deaths was 33,600 fish out of 47,500 total snook harvested (71%) in 2014. 

    And for those who say it still isn't close to recovered, here is another direct quote:

    The spawning biomass in 2014 (1,404 mt, 3.10 million lb) was the highest of the 29 years of data included in the assessment.   

    Although to be fair, this stat could change depending on lower recruitment in the future (or maybe now) from years during cold/red tide.

    My viewpoint is that I have lived here my entire life and fished for snook my entire life.  Part of the experience for me is harvesting the occasional fish and these days I rarely target them out of season and after finding a school with slot fish, we will keep one and I will move on to something else rather than keep working the fish even if the bite is really on.  That being said, I have the utmost respect for the viewpoints of others that maybe only enjoy frequently targeting snook for catch and release and/or maybe haven't done it their entire lives.

    Nonetheless, if release mortality is 71% of the total harvest, than it doesn't seem to me that legal recreational harvest is the problem (by the way, that harvest is really not a lot of total fish when you look at the historical data).  When these events happen a lot of people make comments implying that people who harvest or want season to stay open are the bad guys.  I believe its pretty easy to demonstrate that this is not an accurate or fair viewpoint, and at least based on the most recent stock assessment, catch and release anglers (in total) are killing more fish on the gulf coast.   
  • lukkyracerlukkyracer Posts: 648 Officer
    I don't believe the 71 percent number at all. If that's the case then there are more stupid fishermen out there than I thought. I don't know if I have ever released a snook that didn't seem ready to go do his thing. I have killed a few trout and reds due to deep hooking trout and reds in areas with hot water and low oxygen.


  • mannn123mannn123 Posts: 126 Deckhand
    It was 50% on the east coast, but those numbers (ie. 50% or greater) are the typical historical numbers. 

    However, keep in mind that release mortality is estimated as only 2.13% of snook released (which is a low number) so I don't mean to imply that release mortality is a problem either.  My point was really that, based on my read of the assessments over the last several decades, neither catch and release nor legal harvest under current slot limits is an appreciable number that really affects the population too much BUT for one to be critical of legal harvest is not really fair in light of the release mortality relative to regular recreational harvest.
  • lukkyracerlukkyracer Posts: 648 Officer
    mannn123 said:
    It was 50% on the east coast, but those numbers (ie. 50% or greater) are the typical historical numbers.  Mo

    However, keep in mind that release mortality is estimated as only 2.13% of snook released (which is a low number) so I don't mean to imply that release mortality is a problem either.  My point was really that, based on my read of the assessments over the last several decades, neither catch and release nor legal harvest under current slot limits is an appreciable number that really affects the population too much BUT for one to be critical of legal harvest is not really fair in light of the release mortality relative to regular recreational harvest.
    Ok, that makes sense. I still think all harvest of inshore fish should be closed until the red tide is gone and see where the fishery is at. 

    I fish Sarasota bay north to the skyway. Some of our areas like palma sola got absolutely hammered. I mean not a sign of life anywhere. My hope is some of the fish were able to find clean water, and will come back. I think is going to take a while.
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