Florida Toxic Water Petiton

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Replies

  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 19,324 AG
    I am not defeated...nor am I trying to pick a fight or argue. I am trying to arm you with what is fact...and already known in the scientific community at large. 
    There are *MULTIPLE* problems and somehow...mostly thru misinformation spread by competing agendas...made all the easier by platforms such as facebook and twitter.

    The Lake has it's own unique issues....but because of them.....and mans previous meddling....the problems also add to issues on either coast....differing venues...and differing problems.

    Nothing about "fixing" these issues will be cheap...quite the opposite...they will be outrageously expensive....since we actually put off doing these things for over 50 years.

    My gut feeling is that we will need to completely stop all polluted runoff from getting to the lake via the Kissimee chain. This alone will be the single greatest thing we can do. It will take a lot of acreage of STA's (stormwater treatment areas) starting at Shingle creek at Orlando...and several more as we move south toward the lake. 


    Add in a MASSIVE DRAWDOWN of the lake ( this will be even more massively disliked...because it will impact people who depend on the lake ...marinas guides etc) ....reduce the lake level next year ( dry season) to 8 feet.... that is 6.5 feet lower than right now...and 4.5 feet lower than the schedule calls for.  The drying and oxidation of bottom ( some prescribed burns also) will allow SAV ( submerged aquatic vegetation) to be refreshed in the littoral zone. This will allow nutrients to be taken up by new young plants in their high growth stage. What is funny is that this is actually the NATURAL CYCLE before the lake was diked.

    Don't fall for all the silly Bullsugar hype and nonsense....it is just that.       
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • LostconchLostconch Posts: 214 Deckhand
    I think a draw down every year until they get a better way of dealing with overflow is probably in order. This would reduce massive water releases now required. The Kissimmee ditch needs to be addressed also. 
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 9,283 Admiral
    edited August 2018 #34
    duckmanJR said:
    I am not defeated...nor am I trying to pick a fight or argue. I am trying to arm you with what is fact...and already known in the scientific community at large. 
    There are *MULTIPLE* problems and somehow...mostly thru misinformation spread by competing agendas...made all the easier by platforms such as facebook and twitter.

    The Lake has it's own unique issues....but because of them.....and mans previous meddling....the problems also add to issues on either coast....differing venues...and differing problems.

    Nothing about "fixing" these issues will be cheap...quite the opposite...they will be outrageously expensive....since we actually put off doing these things for over 50 years.

    My gut feeling is that we will need to completely stop all polluted runoff from getting to the lake via the Kissimee chain. This alone will be the single greatest thing we can do. It will take a lot of acreage of STA's (stormwater treatment areas) starting at Shingle creek at Orlando...and several more as we move south toward the lake. 


    Add in a MASSIVE DRAWDOWN of the lake ( this will be even more massively disliked...because it will impact people who depend on the lake ...marinas guides etc) ....reduce the lake level next year ( dry season) to 8 feet.... that is 6.5 feet lower than right now...and 4.5 feet lower than the schedule calls for.  The drying and oxidation of bottom ( some prescribed burns also) will allow SAV ( submerged aquatic vegetation) to be refreshed in the littoral zone. This will allow nutrients to be taken up by new young plants in their high growth stage. What is funny is that this is actually the NATURAL CYCLE before the lake was diked.

    Don't fall for all the silly Bullsugar hype and nonsense....it is just that.       
    Good post Joe..
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 19,324 AG
    Thank you Art. 

    At this point...we really need to get going and we sure cannot afford "missteps" and wasted money. 
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • outboardsurplusoutboardsurplus Posts: 117 Deckhand
    very well said,grew up on the east coast in melbourne and i have seen what happends after a life time of trash dumped into our waters.I can remember as a kid seeing sewage tucks dumping their loads into the indian river.don't know what it will take but the fishing in fla.is begging to suck!!
  • pottydocpottydoc The thriving metropolis of Umatilla Posts: 2,724 Captain
    ANUMBER1 said:
    duckmanJR said:
    I am not defeated...nor am I trying to pick a fight or argue. I am trying to arm you with what is fact...and already known in the scientific community at large. 
    There are *MULTIPLE* problems and somehow...mostly thru misinformation spread by competing agendas...made all the easier by platforms such as facebook and twitter.

    The Lake has it's own unique issues....but because of them.....and mans previous meddling....the problems also add to issues on either coast....differing venues...and differing problems.

    Nothing about "fixing" these issues will be cheap...quite the opposite...they will be outrageously expensive....since we actually put off doing these things for over 50 years.

    My gut feeling is that we will need to completely stop all polluted runoff from getting to the lake via the Kissimee chain. This alone will be the single greatest thing we can do. It will take a lot of acreage of STA's (stormwater treatment areas) starting at Shingle creek at Orlando...and several more as we move south toward the lake. 


    Add in a MASSIVE DRAWDOWN of the lake ( this will be even more massively disliked...because it will impact people who depend on the lake ...marinas guides etc) ....reduce the lake level next year ( dry season) to 8 feet.... that is 6.5 feet lower than right now...and 4.5 feet lower than the schedule calls for.  The drying and oxidation of bottom ( some prescribed burns also) will allow SAV ( submerged aquatic vegetation) to be refreshed in the littoral zone. This will allow nutrients to be taken up by new young plants in their high growth stage. What is funny is that this is actually the NATURAL CYCLE before the lake was diked.

    Don't fall for all the silly Bullsugar hype and nonsense....it is just that.       
    Good post Joe..
    Yup. Dead on about the crap posted on FB every day. Big Sugar is just a handy target. Then you get stuff like the pic posted early this week showing a large fish kill, and claiming it was off Stuart. It was flat out not true, but I’m still seeing it show up and people posting thinking it’s true. 
  • 1outlaw1outlaw Naples FLPosts: 887 Officer
    Excellent post Duckman! Seems like a great start!
    Jason :USA
  • PROFINITYPROFINITY Posts: 203 Deckhand
    Duckman- I agree with you in that this is not all big sugar. The solution is outrageously expensive, however, the problems are either fixed or this state is headed for the toilet.

    i believe water needs to be treated before being released into rivers. I also believe the natural flow through the Everglades needs to be restored. This is a multifaceted problem.
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 19,324 AG
    PROFINITY said:
    I also believe the natural flow through the Everglades needs to be restored. This is a multifaceted problem.
    Sadly, That cannot happen.  Due to over 100 years of AG in the EAA...there is considerable subsidence....the water will not "flow" as in sheetflow like it did for eons...it will sit...like a shallow pond.  The best we can hope for now is pretty much like what SFWMD is doing with the STA's...the water will have to be cleaned...then pumped south.

    Expensive? .....it will be Outrageous.....at the cheap end :o  
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • PROFINITYPROFINITY Posts: 203 Deckhand
    Duckman- You may be correct. However, I am from the oil patch. I simply don’t share the attitude that “it” can not be done. Almost anything can be done if the Will is there. This problem can be fixed. I see this problem as an environmental disaster that has a larger impact to the environment than did the Exxon Valdez or the BP Macondo screw up. Folks are concerned about the cost. Think about the cost to the entire state of Florida if this problem continues. Property values will be circling the drain. Politicians should be charged, convicted and put in prison.
  • Turner River TerrorTurner River Terror Posts: 6,018 Admiral
    Lot's of people move here that don't fish. I'm covered up with High Dollar Golf Courses around me...just sayin..
    Killin and Grillin :grin
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 9,283 Admiral
    PROFINITY said:
    Duckman- You may be correct. However, I am from the oil patch. I simply don’t share the attitude that “it” can not be done. Almost anything can be done if the Will is there. This problem can be fixed. I see this problem as an environmental disaster that has a larger impact to the environment than did the Exxon Valdez or the BP Macondo screw up. Folks are concerned about the cost. Think about the cost to the entire state of Florida if this problem continues. Property values will be circling the drain. Politicians should be charged, convicted and put in prison.
    those politicians have been dead a LONG time.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • bmoodybmoody Posts: 967 Officer
    PROFINITY said:
    Forget petitions and all that BS. It is past time we unite and litigate! Money is the only language anyone understands. Damages include, however, are not limited to:

    1. Loss of use. I don’t fish because the water is toxic. I don’t go to the beach because the water is toxic. I don’t paddleboard because the water is toxic.
    2. Loss of property value.
    3. Decline in rate of appreciation of real estate.

    Defendants will be the Federal government, Army Corps of Engineers, State of Florida, Ciry of Orlando, Walt Disney World, Agriculture and Industry where applicable. Other municipalities. More to follow upon discovery.

    I encourage everyone, no matter if you live on the water or not, to appeal your real estate taxes. Once again, money is THE ONLY LANGUAGE/THING GOVERNMENT UNDERSTANDS. The reason for appeal is the first three things listed in this post.

    Your list of defendants should include anyone receiving flood protection from SFWMD.
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 19,324 AG
    edited August 2018 #45
    PROFINITY said:
    Duckman- You may be correct. However, I am from the oil patch. I simply don’t share the attitude that “it” can not be done. 
    Please re read what I wrote.  I did not say that the water could not be cleaned and moved south to provide the much needed clean water to the Glades headwaters....I was 
    responding to this


    PROFINITY said:
    I also believe the natural flow through the Everglades needs to be restored. 

    It will never be *natural* again....that is just not physically possible anymore....the land has been altered (subsidence) 
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 19,324 AG
    Lot's of people move here that don't fish. I'm covered up with High Dollar Golf Courses around me...just sayin..

    Yep....and plenty just go to the mall.  

    With all the TV coverage you would think there would be a louder outcry. 
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 19,324 AG
    ANUMBER1 said:

    those politicians have been dead a LONG time.


    Yep, It is senseless to blame someone who has been in office 4 years...it is far deeper than that.

    Now if you are talking about someone like Bill Nelson....who has been in for 4 decades....that's different...how about just voting his **** out of office this time? 
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • PROFINITYPROFINITY Posts: 203 Deckhand
    The attitude of people is the problem. Instead of this can’t be, it’s not their fault, it’s the mentality of quitting. I do NOT subscribe to any such thinking. 
  • BenStiflerBenStifler FloridaPosts: 4 Greenhorn
    We must take care of our environment.
    I support this petition.
  • pjepje Orlando , FlPosts: 663 Officer

  • pottydocpottydoc The thriving metropolis of Umatilla Posts: 2,724 Captain
    PROFINITY said:
    The attitude of people is the problem. Instead of this can’t be, it’s not their fault, it’s the mentality of quitting. I do NOT subscribe to any such thinking. 
    None of us are quiting. There are some of us, however, who understand just “believing” that something can happen, doesn’t make it so. And because of that, we look for an alternate option, that will work. We don’t get so bull headed that we insist that there is only one way. 
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