Red Tide in other areas

Red tide in other locations.
 
Florida red tide blooms have been documented on the Florida west coast since the 1800s. More recently, Florida red tides have spread as far as the eastern coast of Mexico and have been entrained in the Gulf Loop, the current that brings Gulf waters to the shores of North Carolina. Other brevetoxin-producing dinoflagellate blooms have been identified in diverse geographic locations worldwide, including New Zealand, Australia and Scotland (Baden and Fleming 2007Hernandez Becerril et al., 2007Haywood et al., 2004Kirkpatrick et al., 2004aNozawa et al., 2003Steidinger et al., 1983).
 
Take the toxic algae blooms such as the red tide that has appeared off Maine this month.
Biologists don't understand how blooms start or stop. But they now have a clue to their demise thanks to research by Xavier MayaliPeter Franks, and Farooq Azam at Scripps Institution of Oceanography.
They found that microbes called RCA cluster bacteria attack red-tide organisms, which are 25 to 30 times their size.
Several bacteria at a time attach to a red-tide cell and kill it. Professor Franks says it's "something like three chipmunks attaching themselves to an elephant and taking it down."
??????

Just because you’re  Offended  Doesn’t mean you right!

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Replies

  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 11,345 AG
    Interesting.  Wonder if the bacteria can be bred then sprayed.
  • Doc StressorDoc Stressor Homosassa, FLPosts: 2,366 Captain
    That study was done with a Pacific red tide organism called Lingulodinium polyedrum, not K. brevis, which causes red tide in the Gulf.

    Studies have shown that there are a number of microorganisms in the Gulf that can inhibit the growth of our red tide organism and even break down its toxin in the water. However, it's not practical to breed up these critters in numbers that might affect a red tide outbreak.  Plus, artificially increasing the number of one particular organism can have unintended consequences. But maybe someday it might be possible to synthesis specific inhibitory compounds made by these organisms that could be used to treat red tide outbreaks. 
  • Capt Dan MedinaCapt Dan Medina Posts: 716 Officer
    edited August 2018 #4
    "That study was done with a Pacific red tide organism called Lingulodinium polyedrum, not K. brevis, which causes red tide in the Gulf.

    Studies have shown that there are a number of microorganisms in the Gulf that can inhibit the growth of our red tide organism and even break down its toxin in the water. However, it's not practical to breed up these critters in numbers that might affect a red tide outbreak.  Plus, artificially increasing the number of one particular organism can have unintended consequences. But maybe someday it might be possible to synthesis specific inhibitory compounds made by these organisms that could be used to treat red tide outbreaks. "

    Good info Lee!
    www.SaltyFishingCharters.com 33 Ft World Cat Tournament Edition Catamaran
    Offshore Fishing Charters FT Myers, Sanibel, Captiva, Cape Coral
  • backyardhockeybackyardhockey Posts: 143 Deckhand
    Ya I’d be very leery of those unintended consequences.  I would be happy if I knew we we not adding to the problem with the runoff stew were putting out there
  • MikelleenMikelleen Posts: 71 Greenhorn
    Well documented that red tide outbreaks are part of the history of the gulf.
    As someone who abhors sensationalism science or science taken out of context for the purpose of political or other effect.
    One thing I have not seen explained in a satisfactory way is data showing historically how the change of redirected runoff waters over time and a correlation to red tide outbreak geographical size and duration of such outbreaks.
    Any comments, or is there cited historical data on the relationship of Okachobee out flows and increasing red tide?
    Just curious, thanks.
  • lukkyracerlukkyracer Posts: 648 Officer
    Mikelleen said:
    Well documented that red tide outbreaks are part of the history of the gulf.
    As someone who abhors sensationalism science or science taken out of context for the purpose of political or other effect.
    One thing I have not seen explained in a satisfactory way is data showing historically how the change of redirected runoff waters over time and a correlation to red tide outbreak geographical size and duration of such outbreaks.
    Any comments, or is there cited historical data on the relationship of Okachobee out flows and increasing red tide?
    Just curious, thanks.


    I would like to see that too.
  • Doc StressorDoc Stressor Homosassa, FLPosts: 2,366 Captain
    edited September 2018 #8
    I have found a couple of old reports that provide some history on red tide outbreaks in the eastern Gulf.

    https://www.fws.gov/news/Historic/NewsReleases/1947/19471221.pdf

    http://www.nativefishlab.net/library/textpdf/13266.pdf
  • Doc StressorDoc Stressor Homosassa, FLPosts: 2,366 Captain
    Here's a scientific article that describes the Saharan Iron Dust Hypothesis.  Note the similarity between the current red dust situation and Tricho bloom that is co-occurring with the red tide bloom and this previous blooms.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2856968/pdf/nihms-187084.pdf
  • MikelleenMikelleen Posts: 71 Greenhorn
    So after reading the historical reports noted, some common theories to the cause of the tides, in comparison to what I have been reading on current theories recently written.
    - Higher than normal rainfall leading to greater runoffs
    - Higher levels of nutrients one study indicating high concentration of phosphorus (phosphates?)
    So based on the two common factors I saw in the reports to what is happening now, it seems to me that redirecting the current high runoff / disharges from Okeechobbe including over fertilization of the land in the runoff geography. Reducing or redirecting the runoff could have important impact on red tide reduction. Based on both current and historical data.
    At least that seems like a reasonable theory based on what I read.
     
  • MikelleenMikelleen Posts: 71 Greenhorn
    Also as a side note, in the 1947 fws report, I was impressed with the reports attempt to stick to the scientific method of ad vancing theories, including the possibly contradictory evidence.
    It seems to me that current scientific research papers, or at least those I read about in news reports, never cite contadiction. Which in my opinion is not honest science.
    Anyway, just a comment, not to get off topic.
  • Doc StressorDoc Stressor Homosassa, FLPosts: 2,366 Captain
    Scientists have a hard time communicating through the popular press. Reporters often misrepresent the conclusions of scientific papers in order to "simplify" them for the lay public.  Peer-reviewed scientific papers always include discussions of contradictory data or they wouldn't get published.  That's why you should stick to the primary scientific literature for information on any topic rather than stories written by reporters who typically have little or no understanding of the topic. 

    It's really very difficult to determine whether or not the Okeechobee releases significantly contribute to the current red tide.  The timing is wrong and even if current studies looking at natural isotope abundance in the red tide organisms show that they are using some nutrients that originated in freshwater, you can't assign causality. What would be needed is data from before human-related runoff became common.  Even if those data were available, it would be difficult to access the contribution of the Okeechobee releases relative to all of the septic tanks, agricultural activities, lawns, golf courses, and parking lot runoff in SW Florida. 

    The data does show that red tide outbreaks are becoming more frequent and severe than in the past, which is why most scientists suspect that the human population is contributing is in some way to the problem. 




  • Doc StressorDoc Stressor Homosassa, FLPosts: 2,366 Captain
    Here's a good article that pretty well explains the current state of red tide research in Florida.

    http://www.staugustine.com/news/20180904/red-tide-may-be-natural-but-scientists-believe-coastal-pollution-is-making-it-worse
  • ScoutboatScoutboat Posts: 2,029 Captain
    Mikelleen said:
    Well documented that red tide outbreaks are part of the history of the gulf.
    As someone who abhors sensationalism science or science taken out of context for the purpose of political or other effect.
    One thing I have not seen explained in a satisfactory way is data showing historically how the change of redirected runoff waters over time and a correlation to red tide outbreak geographical size and duration of such outbreaks.
    Any comments, or is there cited historical data on the relationship of Okachobee out flows and increasing red tide?
    Just curious, thanks.


    I would like to see that too.
    It only makes sense that we need to address the 
  • ScoutboatScoutboat Posts: 2,029 Captain
    I read today, that red tide has been observed in the Panhandle area.  
  • lukkyracerlukkyracer Posts: 648 Officer
    Scoutboat said:
    I read today, that red tide has been observed in the Panhandle area.  
    Old news. That was reported last week. Must be the lake O water there too.
  • kmagnusskmagnuss Posts: 2,873 Captain
    I'm no scientist, but if the Lake O water was really the cause for the size and strength of the red tide (which it may or may not be), then it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilities that the discharge could have helped grow the bloom to the size that it would have affected the entire coast, not just the areas relatively close to the rivers that go to Lake O.  Again, I admittedly don't know my butt from a hole in the ground, but even a smoky building can affect nearby buildings with smoke.  (weird analogy, I know)
    Tarpon... everything else is just bait.
    Captain Keith Magnussen - Crooked Rod Charters
    Instagram is @crooked_rod_charters
  • lukkyracerlukkyracer Posts: 648 Officer
    For centuries it has been reported. The mayor of Venice wants to ban pesticides  and fertilizer. Great idea. Let's see what the residents of Venice think about that when they can't go outside due to the bugs. Plus people with nice lawns see it all die. That's what will happen. 
    The economy and population will go in the toilet. Good luck with that plan.
  • lukkyracerlukkyracer Posts: 648 Officer
    We have too many people. Anyone have an answer to that?. Let's do what China does. Limit population. 
  • lukkyracerlukkyracer Posts: 648 Officer
    Open the borders, l=t um in.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 11,345 AG
    edited September 2018 #21
    Our society will be able to survive without green manicured lawns and uninspected septic tanks and after a restoration of the Everglades flow.  

    Those three things would be a nice start in my eyes, but really what we need is an effective and flexible plan assembled by the best and the brightest that is then taken up by the leadership of this state to address the situation instead of more of the same.  

    Half the state can't come to grips with the a woman's right to choose, much less the State, so I think the odds of us going full China because of red tide is a bit of a stretch, Lukky.
  • lukkyracerlukkyracer Posts: 648 Officer
    Lol! Of course. But it will not be enticing people to move here if they can go to other areas of the country  where they can have nice landscaping ect. 

    Let's face it florida is not a great place to bring up a family. We are often looked as the laughing stock of the country. 
  • lukkyracerlukkyracer Posts: 648 Officer
    There's plenty of other places to catch fish.
  • lukkyracerlukkyracer Posts: 648 Officer
    And as far as a women's right to choose, it should be equally rightfully for a man to have the same rights. 
  • lukkyracerlukkyracer Posts: 648 Officer
    Way off topic. Sorry. But if a man gets a woman pregnant he should have a right to have his child under certain circumstances. 
  • kmagnusskmagnuss Posts: 2,873 Captain
    If the water stays like it is now for a long stretch you won't have to worry about the population in FL anymore.  Snowbirds won't come down, tourists won't come down.  The two main sources of income, hospitality and construction, will go out the window, so the residents will have to move.  Housing market crashes.  It won't take long.
    Tarpon... everything else is just bait.
    Captain Keith Magnussen - Crooked Rod Charters
    Instagram is @crooked_rod_charters
  • sixstring09sixstring09 Posts: 52 Greenhorn
    We moved into an 80s house near the beach 2 years ago, and with a lot of research, red tide never came up. The Dec17 to May18 red tide was tolerable. Mid May18 to now has just been brutal. 

    If major fish kills occur more regularly, I'm not so sure what we'll do.
  • lukkyracerlukkyracer Posts: 648 Officer
    You are so right kmag!! I know you have been dealing with it for a lot longer than us in manatee and Pinellas but it is astonishing the lack of water activity. Restaurants, beaches, boats are almost all empty. It's not even that bad as far as dead fish and smell. Small pockets here and there. Everyone is just scared. News reports are a huge problem. 

    But overall the economy and real estate will be fine away from the water. In fact it will most likely help values not on the  coast. New guides must be on the verge of getting there boats repossessed. I was at kingfish ramp at 6:30 last evening. Not 1 trailer. Never saw that before.

  • Westwall01Westwall01 Posts: 5,123 Admiral
    Most ramps around here have far less trailers then they normally do at this time of the year. Normally if you get to the Matlacha public ramp after 730 a.m. on a Saturday your out of luck, but not anymore. Same has been true for the Co-Op, Pineland, Punta Rassa and D&D. As far as guides go I talk to numerous guides daily and one full time guide explained to me that he has only had one charter since August 1st and has had over two dozen of cancelations in that time frame and only has one on the books before the end of the month and is now working part time at a local store to make ends meet. Another I know is now mowing lawns because most of his clients have cancelled as well lately. This will unfortunately will get worse before getting better.
  • John HaggertyJohn Haggerty Posts: 204 Deckhand
    I've only been here in Sarasota for 3 years.  First we were going to be snowbirds.  After fishing my first 9 month winter, I choose to stay year round.  That first year I did well enough to want to stay year round.  After this summer I'll probably snowbird and leave every summer.  A lot of good fishing in Canada.  Maybe if things clean up and what little i know of the fishing here returns, I might stay.  This winter/spring will tell.  Good thing I didn't buy that new flats boat.
  • Westwall01Westwall01 Posts: 5,123 Admiral
    It may ease up this winter/spring, but remember this red tide event started last October and has persisted ever since and you add in the blue-green algae this summer.
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