S.W Florida and RedTide

ScoutboatScoutboat Posts: 1,800 Captain
Our section of the country made the National news today.
CNN reported the conditions that we've all known about for weeks.
Hopefully, this will embarrass our State politicians.
Jim
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Replies

  • Doc StressorDoc Stressor Homosassa, FLPosts: 2,246 Captain
    Most of our politicians don't watch CNN.
  • 10kman10kman Posts: 348 Deckhand
    Doc,is that a fact or fake news ?










    ?
  • GarysmoGarysmo Posts: 388 Deckhand
    I saw it today.  It sounded pretty bad.  Hopefully someone will get the wake up call now
  • NoreastSalt3295NoreastSalt3295 Posts: 507 Officer
    As always, great post Capt. Lemay. Could not agree more.
  • Reel TealReel Teal Posts: 2,851 Captain
    Theres many issues yes. Here's one reason we can't fix it yet:

    Even if the SFWMD and the Corps could move clean water south of the Tamiami Trail, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service won’t always let them because it would flood the nesting grounds of the Cape Sable Sea Sparrow. The Cape Sable Sea Sparrow as not originally  native to that area. The sparrows nest in marl prairie. The area south of the Tamiami Trail was originally much wetter than it is now. But after the roadway blocked the flow, the area dried out and the endangered birds moved in. Ironically, the efforts to protected one endangered bird species are threatening other endangered species in the Everglades and in Florida Bay.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/okeechobeenews.net/opinion/lake-okeechobee-rising-cant-send-water-south/amp/
  • Reel TealReel Teal Posts: 2,851 Captain
    And do we blame the native Americans for their stance?

    "We'd like to see water once again flow from Lake Okeechobee and wash out into Florida Bay. But the water needs to be cleaned up first," says Miccosukee Tribe chairman Colley Billie. "The problem is the water is dirty. Everglades National Park, which is located south of us, they don't want that water EITHER because they're afraid it will change the environment of Everglades National Park."

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.news-press.com/amp/6751583
  • TrevfishinTrevfishin Posts: 536 Officer
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/08/us/florida-red-tide-weir/index.html  

    CNN is blaming big sugar....like you said, everyone is pointing fingers but lack the balls to do something other than point a someone else.
  • Turner River TerrorTurner River Terror Posts: 5,365 Admiral
    News tonight..Sugar Boycott in the local Grocery stores. Ft. Meyers / Naples.
    That'll teach them. No more Sugar Cookies for the Baseball Team , while Nestle buys a zillion pounds at discount....losing..
    Killin and Grillin :grin
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 9,555 Admiral
    Could the lack of national reporting be due to pressure from local and state politicians and tourism officials?
     
    2013 Pathfinder 22 TE , 150 Yamaha,
  • TrevfishinTrevfishin Posts: 536 Officer
    Well since it's been picked up by CNN, National Geographic and USA today...pretty sure it's making national news now
  • LostconchLostconch Posts: 98 Greenhorn
    It has been on the weather channel for a while. 
  • lemaymiamilemaymiami Posts: 2,905 Captain
    Our problems are met with indifference elsewhere I'm afraid... and if you want to get a good idea of how we got to where we are....  read THE SWAMP by Michael Grunwald - it's a history of man's dealings with the Everglades since the first Europeans showed up here....

    As for responsibility.... the first thing all of us should do is go look in a mirror... Florida was never meant to have the population it does since our water supplies are finite (not un-ending) and if we're not careful and get cracking on the cleanup the next generation won't be in a very good place... 

    Remember every sinkhole you hear of - was once simply a limestone cavern filled with... you guessed it.... water...  Over near Tampa there's a few areas where you can't build since you can't get water...  The only thing keeping salt or brackish waters out of the ground is the positive pressure of existing freshwater supplies (and I can remember reading of well fields failing -fifty years ago down near Miami....  The first de-salination plants are over near Tampa as well.  Getting fresh drinkable water that way is expensive, not as good quality as the natural limestone waters we depend on - and there's an environmental cost since after stripping out as much freshwater as possible the waters that get returned to the coast are hyper-saline (that's a fancy way of saying they're too salty and hurt fish, plants, etc).

    I strongly support CCA and I'm a member of Captains for Clean Water -both outfits are well worth supporting.  By the way, I can remember reading and hearing about these issues all the way back when I first came here, fresh back from a very bad place... in 1971....   Every water related problem we face from not enough freshwater making it down to Florida Bay to the polluted waters in Lake Okeechobee (with the problems that's causing on both coasts -red tides much, much stronger than they used to be on the Gulf coast - and terrible blue/green algae problems on the east coast...) are all inter-connected and the fixes will be years to implement, will cost a ton of money - and will be opposed at every step by those that believe their fortunes and families will be injured in the process... 

    I'll get down off of my soapbox now (and if any media folks read this - I'm willing to repeat it on camera any time...). 
    Tight Lines
    Bob LeMay
    (954) 435-5666
  • TrevfishinTrevfishin Posts: 536 Officer
    https://www.wftv.com/news/local/amid-another-algae-bloom-feds-speed-up-work-on-herbert-hoover-dike/783710936

    They are putting 514 million towards fixing the dike system, doesn't seem like money is an issue.  They quoted that 2400 people died from a hurricane due to flooding.  I saw another post saying that there are now endangered nesting birds in an area that would flood if they released the dikes.

    Clearly this is a multifaceted issue that in order to fix will require the displacement of people living in an area that was once uninhabitable.  Shocking that people are confused that they would have to move from what was a flood plain many years ago....what do you think was gonna happen?

    Look, I don't live in Florida, I like to visit, so I read what's going on and try and see if from both sides.  I also understand the purpose of using the natural resources to maintain and filter the water BEFORE it reaches the ocean.  Where I live they straightened out a creek to allow the water to flow more efficiently....yeah, 5 years ago they had to put the creek back to it's meandering state due to the amount of pollution that was gathering at the other end.  That's when they realized the natural benefit of the meandering creek did more than a man made system could keep up with.  Small comparison, but the end result is the same.
  • lemaymiamilemaymiami Posts: 2,905 Captain
    Well said - only now the folks living there have property rights so (the people of Florida, with our taxes...) we'll have to pay them first... and if they fight, it will have to go through the confiscation process and a judge will have his or her say about whether it's appropriate (not much argument there...) and just how much the state will have to pony up... The real hangup from my point of view is that it will take a huge amount of money - and everyone on every side will have other purposes for those same monies...  As I've said before it will probably be possible for bright young folks to actually make a full career working on these issues - if we'll only get started....
    Tight Lines
    Bob LeMay
    (954) 435-5666
  • polliwogpolliwog Posts: 220 Deckhand
    Just saw in today's Naples News that the Florida fish and wildlife will close Panther, **** and round Keys 

     access to protect the turtle nests from being disturbed because the red tide has hurt so many nests already.  I have no idea what that means as far as access is concerned??

    This story is out there around the country on various news outlets,including the Weather channel.  It is a mess and tragedy to say the least for all of us who love our fish and wildlife.
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 18,707 AG
    https://www.wftv.com/news/local/amid-another-algae-bloom-feds-speed-up-work-on-herbert-hoover-dike/783710936

    They are putting 514 million towards fixing the dike system, doesn't seem like money is an issue.  




    That is not even half of a drop in the bucket of the money we are talking about to fix these issues. 
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • kmagnusskmagnuss Posts: 2,689 Captain
    Change that M to a B, as in 514 Billion... and it still won't be enough to do it right.
    50 years from now we'll be talking about the good ole' days in 2018 when we thought the red tide was bad.

    Tarpon... everything else is just bait.
    2017 Tarpon Count: 109/431
    Captain Keith Magnussen - Crooked Rod Charters
    Instagram is @crooked_rod_charters
  • TrevfishinTrevfishin Posts: 536 Officer
    Hey, maybe when they deconstruct the dike system, they'll take all that concrete and make a 143 mile artificial reef system.  They can call it, Bad Idea Reef.
  • spanglerspangler daBurgPosts: 617 Officer
    It seems to be gaining more and more attention in the news.  People are looking at the red tide status before traveling here for vacation.  Maybe the greatest thing that could happen is that the media starts hyper focusing on it like they do everything else, and catalyze change.  Or, they could focus on sugar...

    Mr Lemay, there are a handful of people on here, whose posts I've come to really appreciate.  You sir, are consistently well informed, directed and add such great content to this forum.  Without it, this place wouldn't be worth visiting.  Thank you for all you do out there and on here.  Just thought it should be said.

    I think, we are close in age.  I think also you grew up down south?  I'm in my forties, grew up in Tampa and still live here.  I too have been hearing about this for a long time, but obviously, in different capacities.  Do you think this is more of the same?  Or is the problem getting worse?  I remember occasional red tides as a kid.  Now it seems an annual occurrence.  Here in the tampa bay area.  And, I seem to get weekly reports from fwc about the red tide status in south florida (florida bay).

    Also, we are starting to see cyano blooms here :/  Anyone who's kept saltwater aquariums, is familiar with this.  Can't be good...
  • DfreedomDfreedom Posts: 97 Greenhorn
    Is it even possible to embarrass a politician?
  • backyardhockeybackyardhockey Posts: 84 Greenhorn
    Ask them how to use a hand tool?
  • TrevfishinTrevfishin Posts: 536 Officer
    Have a feeling anything labeled cyano bloom can't be a positive thing.  Heading to Sebastian Inlet the end of September so I guess I'll see the negative affects on that side as well.  Was in Siesta Key in June when the red tide just started hitting there, now it's just plain nasty...no one on the beach now...here's a link to a beach cam there, http://www.siestakeyhos.com/beachcam.php  

    How to turn the #1 beach to the #100...
  • TrevfishinTrevfishin Posts: 536 Officer
    So I bounce back and forth between here and Pensacola Fishing Forum and this was posted there:

    https://captainsforcleanwater.org/ will better explain the problem.

    There's really very little debate - FL citizens voted to buy back the sugar fields and agricultural land south of Lake O. 

    The money was raised (every FL home owner paid a new tax to collect the money - that includes us from the panhandle too!!!)

    Now, the Governor has refused to buy the land back AS THE VOTERS VOTED FOR HIM TO DO.

    So, yes, Gov. Scott is to blame - he's not executing the will of the people.

    Study up on which of the folks running for governor too, and vote wisely.

    Once the state owns the lands south of Lake O, then the Corps of Engineers can restore the flow of water THROUGH the everglades instead of dumping the water into the Gulf of Mexico and the Atlantic Ocean.

    By restoring the natural flow will alleviate 90% of the problems with pollutants and nutrients causing the algae blooms and excessive red tides that are destroying the marine ecosystems south of Lake O.
  • pottydocpottydoc Posts: 2,175 Captain
    edited August 10 #26
    So I bounce back and forth between here and Pensacola Fishing Forum and this was posted there:

    https://captainsforcleanwater.org/ will better explain the problem.

    There's really very little debate - FL citizens voted to buy back the sugar fields and agricultural land south of Lake O. 

    The money was raised (every FL home owner paid a new tax to collect the money - that includes us from the panhandle too!!!)

    Now, the Governor has refused to buy the land back AS THE VOTERS VOTED FOR HIM TO DO.

    So, yes, Gov. Scott is to blame - he's not executing the will of the people.

    Study up on which of the folks running for governor too, and vote wisely.

    Once the state owns the lands south of Lake O, then the Corps of Engineers can restore the flow of water THROUGH the everglades instead of dumping the water into the Gulf of Mexico and the Atlantic Ocean.

    By restoring the natural flow will alleviate 90% of the problems with pollutants and nutrients causing the algae blooms and excessive red tides that are destroying the marine ecosystems south of Lake O.
    You obviously have never read the amendment.  There is nothing in the Amendment about buying Sugar land. That’s what Bull Sugar wants to do with it. There’s nothing in the Amendment that specifies any particular piece of land. Also, the excise tax was already existed. It was not new. The Amendment just changed where 33% of the money was to go. And when the State finally owns Sugar land, it won’t alleviate anything, at least not for a long time. The water can’t just be dumped south without causing damage to the Glades below the Lake, and causing huge amounts of damage to Florida Bay and the Upper Keys because of too much fresh water lowering the saltlinity of the water. It will take years of design, years more of permitting, and even more years to build  the reservoir to hold and filter the water before it can be released down stream. There are a bunch of other projects that could be started that would have a positive effect in a much shorter time. Not huge, but a dang site better than nothing. Bit those projects don’t meet the agenda of some of our more bullheaded groups. And, while there is some evidence that the discharges might cause red tide to be worse, they DO NOT cause red tide. It’s naturally occurring, and been around forever. It occurs even when no water is being discharged from Lake O. Hopefully Doc Stressor will see this post, he can explain the causes of red tide much better tha I can. And, Finally, Scott is no more to blame than any of our other politicians over the last 50 or so years (most of them have been democrat, by the way), are. Bill Nelson has accepted an enormous amount of money from Big Sugar. He changed his tune now since he’s scared he is going to lose to Scott. He says otherwise, but he’s no more trustworthy than any other politician that’s been in office for over four decades. Understand, I totally agree that we need to work hard on improving our water. But posting things that just aren’t true, repeating them on FB and other social media (not saying you have done that) does not help our cause. Every thing I posted is easily verifiable with a quick Google Search. I’ll pm Doc and ask him to explain what causes red tide, also. 
  • GigUmGigUm Posts: 55 Greenhorn
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/08/us/florida-red-tide-weir/index.html  

    CNN is blaming big sugar....like you said, everyone is pointing fingers but lack the balls to do something other than point a someone else.
    Everyone seems to be "reactive" instead of "proactive" 
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 18,707 AG
    pottydoc said:

    You obviously have never read the amendment.  There is nothing in the Amendment about buying Sugar land. That’s what Bull Sugar wants to do with it. There’s nothing in the Amendment that specifies any particular piece of land. Also, the excise tax was already existed. It was not new. The Amendment just changed where 33% of the money was to go. And when the State finally owns Sugar land, it won’t alleviate anything, at least not for a long time. The water can’t just be dumped south without causing damage to the Glades below the Lake, and causing huge amounts of damage to Florida Bay and the Upper Keys because of too much fresh water lowering the saltlinity of the water. It will take years of design, years more of permitting, and even more years to build  the reservoir to hold and filter the water before it can be released down stream. There are a bunch of other projects that could be started that would have a positive effect in a much shorter time. Not huge, but a dang site better than nothing. Bit those projects don’t meet the agenda of some of our more bullheaded groups. And, while there is some evidence that the discharges might cause red tide to be worse, they DO NOT cause red tide. It’s naturally occurring, and been around forever. It occurs even when no water is being discharged from Lake O. Hopefully Doc Stressor will see this post, he can explain the causes of red tide much better tha I can. And, Finally, Scott is no more to blame than any of our other politicians over the last 50 or so years (most of them have been democrat, by the way), are. Bill Nelson has accepted an enormous amount of money from Big Sugar. He changed his tune now since he’s scared he is going to lose to Scott. He says otherwise, but he’s no more trustworthy than any other politician that’s been in office for over four decades. Understand, I totally agree that we need to work hard on improving our water. But posting things that just aren’t true, repeating them on FB and other social media (not saying you have done that) does not help our cause. Every thing I posted is easily verifiable with a quick Google Search. I’ll pm Doc and ask him to explain what causes red tide, also. 


    Are you guys talking about amendment 1....

    If so...Pottydoc is correct. 

    And I know I have mentioned this SEVERAL TIMES....You better look up the word "subsidence"....and how it relates to the EAA..... There is NEVER GOING TO BE SHEETFLOW SOUTH....EVER!  The science is already clear on this. 
    The land has been altered and is not capable of historic flow. 
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • jensenjeff1955jensenjeff1955 Posts: 36 Greenhorn
    kmagnuss said:
    Change that M to a B, as in 514 Billion... and it still won't be enough to do it right.
    50 years from now we'll be talking about the good ole' days in 2018 when we thought the red tide was bad.


    I fear that this is a true statement and I weep for the future of our wonderful state
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 8,648 Admiral
    pottydoc said:
    So I bounce back and forth between here and Pensacola Fishing Forum and this was posted there:

    https://captainsforcleanwater.org/ will better explain the problem.

    There's really very little debate - FL citizens voted to buy back the sugar fields and agricultural land south of Lake O. 

    The money was raised (every FL home owner paid a new tax to collect the money - that includes us from the panhandle too!!!)

    Now, the Governor has refused to buy the land back AS THE VOTERS VOTED FOR HIM TO DO.

    So, yes, Gov. Scott is to blame - he's not executing the will of the people.

    Study up on which of the folks running for governor too, and vote wisely.

    Once the state owns the lands south of Lake O, then the Corps of Engineers can restore the flow of water THROUGH the everglades instead of dumping the water into the Gulf of Mexico and the Atlantic Ocean.

    By restoring the natural flow will alleviate 90% of the problems with pollutants and nutrients causing the algae blooms and excessive red tides that are destroying the marine ecosystems south of Lake O.
    You obviously have never read the amendment.  There is nothing in the Amendment about buying Sugar land. That’s what Bull Sugar wants to do with it. There’s nothing in the Amendment that specifies any particular piece of land. Also, the excise tax was already existed. It was not new. The Amendment just changed where 33% of the money was to go. And when the State finally owns Sugar land, it won’t alleviate anything, at least not for a long time. The water can’t just be dumped south without causing damage to the Glades below the Lake, and causing huge amounts of damage to Florida Bay and the Upper Keys because of too much fresh water lowering the saltlinity of the water. It will take years of design, years more of permitting, and even more years to build  the reservoir to hold and filter the water before it can be released down stream. There are a bunch of other projects that could be started that would have a positive effect in a much shorter time. Not huge, but a dang site better than nothing. Bit those projects don’t meet the agenda of some of our more bullheaded groups. And, while there is some evidence that the discharges might cause red tide to be worse, they DO NOT cause red tide. It’s naturally occurring, and been around forever. It occurs even when no water is being discharged from Lake O. Hopefully Doc Stressor will see this post, he can explain the causes of red tide much better tha I can. And, Finally, Scott is no more to blame than any of our other politicians over the last 50 or so years (most of them have been democrat, by the way), are. Bill Nelson has accepted an enormous amount of money from Big Sugar. He changed his tune now since he’s scared he is going to lose to Scott. He says otherwise, but he’s no more trustworthy than any other politician that’s been in office for over four decades. Understand, I totally agree that we need to work hard on improving our water. But posting things that just aren’t true, repeating them on FB and other social media (not saying you have done that) does not help our cause. Every thing I posted is easily verifiable with a quick Google Search. I’ll pm Doc and ask him to explain what causes red tide, also. 
    this^^ 

    admendment 1 was/is a joke...

    Money would be better spent upgrading failing/ageing sewage/septic systems north of the lake.

    JMO
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • TrevfishinTrevfishin Posts: 536 Officer
    Pottydoc, you're right, I have never read amendment 1, I was merely showing what was being posted else where, didn't mean any harm, but I appreciate the clarification.  Being from NC I have not been immersed in this until this past year.  I'm learning as I go and hate it even got to this point. 
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