no scallop shells in the river (Homosassa)

13

Replies

  • ChadChad Satellite Beach, FLPosts: 132 Deckhand
    Reel Teal said:
    Wasted? What? 

    The world has never wasted water in its existence. I mean it rains in Florida from time to time...can you please elaborate on how its wasted?

    Not sure if you're being sarcastic.  Wasting water would be letting a sink run while you brush teeth for 3 mins...wash a dish by hand etc...and that water gets captured into the sewer to process.  I consider that a waste anyway.

    acme54321 said:
    At the end of the day we shouldn't be putting anything in our inshore waters, period.  Every body of water in this state has elevated nutrient levels.  If you want to be part of the solution to our water problems quit throwing carcasses back, stop fertilizing, bag grass clippings, quit watering....the list goes on.

    I will give you that you specify inshore (like the discussion started about with Homosassa), but I toss all my carcasses back into the ocean where they came from...lobster, dolphin, shrimp heads and bottom fish....100% recycled.  I will always do that and will draw the line with someone telling me that is "bad for the environment", hence my very original comment.  Kind of like when there were people that were saying burning wood (natural firewood) was bad for the ozone.

    100% agree with you on the others.  I personally have had a xeriscape yard for more than 15 years.  more time to fish!


  • Reel TealReel Teal Posts: 3,267 Captain
    edited August 2018 #63
    @Chad ;

    100% serious. How is not bottling spring water and allowing the rivers to flow naturally wasting water? 

    Your other comments have nothing to do with what was said. Apples to oranges.
  • Doc StressorDoc Stressor Homosassa, FLPosts: 2,366 Captain
    The estuaries need as much fresh water as they can get most of the year to keep their ecosystem going. 

    I'm not sure that exporting bottled water to other states makes a significant difference, however.  Haven't seen the data. 
  • mburke001 aka TripleBmburke001 aka TripleB Posts: 1,210 Officer
    There will always be discussions pro and con on ideas/facts etc. Bottomline, we should all do a part (even a little) in helping to protect our resources. 
  • ChadChad Satellite Beach, FLPosts: 132 Deckhand
    Reel Teal said:
    @Chad ;

    100% serious. How is not bottling spring water and allowing the rivers to flow naturally wasting water? 

    Your other comments have nothing to do with what was said. Apples to oranges.
    I see.  you made a statement "The world has never wasted water in its existence" so that is what I was responding to.  I didnt know what you were responding to something specific someone said.

    I think this thread has run its course  :) 

    Hopefully there's people that read it that will now discard their scallop waste appropriately, had they not prior.


  • FishesmanFishesman Posts: 414 Deckhand
    edited August 2018 #67
    While I'm no fan of exporting bottled water, it accounts for only a tiny fraction of our overall water use. We waste way more potable water on our yards and golf courses than are pumped out of the ground by bottling operations.
  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,346 AG
    edited August 2018 #68
    Cyclist said:
    For the life of me I do not know why Florida politicians allow international corporations to pump our SPRING water, put it into plastic bottles and then ship it out of the state.

    Whatever law that allows this needs to be abolished.
    You would deny clean drinking water to other folks?...build a wall perhaps?   I would prefer to deny green lawns and clean cars.

    According to UF we draw billions of gallons of water from the aquifer every day - 60% or so is for residential use.  How much of that is for drinking - how much for other - lawns, laundry, showers etc.  How much water does the Gainesville biomass plant use daily - a million gallons or more?

    The St. John's River WMD thinks the flow from Silver Springs can be reduced even further without damage...I question that.
    http://www.ocala.com/news/20170313/water-agency-oks-reduced-flow-for-silver-springs

    The amount of drinking water drawn from the aquifer is miniscule compared to other uses.
    http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ae287


    Pete - I'm not saying whether taking water from the aquifer to bottle for drinking is right or wrong - I'm saying it's the least of our problems.




    I can agree with that...but I do think Floridas water laws are antiquated. That is Floridians water IMO, not coca colas or whom evers! Our aquifer is a river and downstream impacts are just being quantified and flow issues as well. There are ecological impacts! SJRWMD has said, "we have permitted too much water withdrawal and impacts are occurring"  while approving more WUPs.

    Out west, a homeowner doesn't even own the rain that falls on their property and are not allowed to capture it in cisterns....that seems a bit harsh, but Florida water laws are too lax and WILL be changed by necessity at some point.
    133cbf2b243368b1ddb2f591a1988076--beach-posters-florida-travel.jpg
  • Snook SpankerSnook Spanker Inglis / YankeetownPosts: 1,772 Captain
    OK, I just finished reading all 3 pages and have waited long enough to comment! 
    So at the risk of adding more crap to the pile let me say this. I feel just awful for the way we are leaving the planet to the generations to follow! Yes some of us were just ignorant for a long time but did and are doing our best at shrinking our green footprints now that we have been become a little more educated. But I fear it's just a little too little a little too late!! The signs are all out there and we are running out of clean water! And if you think we have it bad take a good look at California!! At least our water supply runs under ground!! Theirs whats left of it travels down dammed rivers and in big concrete canals (not sure what they call them out there?) from north to south from lakes and reservoirs. I hate to think what will happen to them if terrorists somehow blow up the dams or canals? Seems like it wouldn't be too difficult? They are dangerously low on water now fighting with states upstream on the Colorado River for what little flow and water is left when it gets there!! I've heard that the Colorado river doesn't even reach the ocean anymore? I'm sure Doc will know the answer along with other facts I don't know!?!?
    I think the answer is one that no one wants because of it's cost. Desalination Plants may be what the future holds and we should be building them NOW!! They have the technology and it's going to come to it or some other drastic measure way before we are ready to deal with it! But we'll just wait while all the chicken necks in Congress and the Senate debate on how to spend money we don't have on somethings that are really stupid!!! You lefties and righties can argue all you want but I hate all those egomaniacs on the hill!!! They are all gonna argue us right into the poorhouse and thirsty as hell to boot!!! I guess I'm glad I lived and fished when I did but like I stated earlier, what a mess our Big Party has left!!!
      Sorry Gize, the little voices told me to do it!!!!! 
    I am'z what I am'z and that'z all that I am'z!! > Popeye!
  • EnyarEnyar Posts: 79 Greenhorn
    CK1 said:
    I am as about a conservative a person as you will find.   But I do think the Republican Party has been lacking in the conservation area for Florida.  

    I know most of my fishing friends are conservative and are upset about the water issues in south Florida.   We all need to be talking to our elected officials and letting them know what is happening on Lake Okeechobee is unacceptable.   


    I'm with you. Conservatives across the nation are dropping the ball here. I think if they picked up the slack they would get A LOT more attention from voters like me. Unfortunately the environment is too much of my play ground so I'm going to vote left every day to keep that as safe as possible.
  • lakemanlakeman Posts: 721 Officer
    Conservative or liberal, both have some strange views of conservation.  Both are extreme in different ways.  

    In another fact from posts  above about California and Florida about shipping  water out of state.  California water is what Sam's club sell a Members Mark water, just noticed it on the bottle.  
  • shamrock1188shamrock1188 Posts: 272 Deckhand
    It's just not a water shortage problem. When we use the water and basically flush it down the toilet (Water run off) It now becomes toxic and flows in our waterways and forms red tide. Look at southwest Florida killed everything for 100 miles. I agree with Snook Spanker too little too late and it is not getting any better any time soon. Main problem is to many people not enough resources. The solution birth control but that will really open a can of worms that no politician will touch.    
  • Tony RomaTony Roma Posts: 358 Deckhand
    human beings are a virus,  we will feed off the host until there is nothing left,Mother Nature does her best to fight us off but I believe it’s reached critical mass, she’s gonna need some help, maybe another asteroid or a good ol’ Black Plague to even up the odds again. We have learned some hard lessons in America and most are trying to learn from our mistakes , but other counties like India and China are just hitting their stride economically. 2 billion people and they all want our standard of living, air conditioning , cars, meat at every meal. Unfortunately any little steps we take to reverse the trend feels like pissing in the wind. Been keeping up with this thread and I’m sorry to be so negative. Just my opinion.
  • Rick1-2Rick1-2 HorseshoePosts: 918 Officer
    i’ve always said we are a cancer on this earth 
  • Grady-ladyGrady-lady Posts: 5,269 Admiral
    Humans are not a cancer, nor are we a virus.  

    Mankind is one of nature's most magnificent creatures who belong on this earth as much as any finned, furred or scaled creature.  It's true we fight nature at every turn - by healing the sick, mitigating poverty, feeding the hungry, protecting the weak, building elaborate shelters, cooling and heating the air, inventing go-fast transportation, watering the desert - and building weapons that can destroy all we've accomplished.  

    No matter what we do though, the earth will survive - nature is the more powerful and ruthless force.  In the meantime it is our responsibility to be good caretakers so that future generations of humans will have clean water and clean air. Right?  For most of us that job begins at home.  

    We need to be careful not to spend our energy fighting trivial battles (ie bottling drinking water) and end up losing the big ones...we need to educate ourselves on the difference...the things we can control, and the things we can't. 



    I find my peace out on the sand...Beside the sea, not beyond or behind. R.A. Britt

  • ChadChad Satellite Beach, FLPosts: 132 Deckhand
    here here Grady.  I thought I was done with this thread, not that there arent good topics.  I dam sure am not going to sign up that I am a cancer or a virus because I exist on this planet.  Cancer - pick any of your favorite politicians with a R or D next to their name - there is your cancer...I digress...

    I hate many of the things many many people give absolutely no thought to.  Look at the average person that bags your groceries - they have no thought of trying to atleast miniminze how many bags they give you.  Plastic is the gift that keeps on giving.  My wife and I had re-useable bags long before it became a fad.  If I forget them, I atleast get the old school paper bags.  We send our kids to school with re-useable containers.  Alot more work for us, but we're not throwing ziplocs away daily.  

    I hate how much garbage we all generate.  Every time I take a bag out, I think about the crap that is in it that we have the technology to recycle it, but we (waste management) dont.  Even though we recycle everything we can, the reality is there's tons of plastic, Styrofoams and papers that could be recycled that our waste management has not prioritized to be set up for.  

    Everytime I get takeout at a restaurant, I think - why hasnt someone decided to sell refillable, reusable containers that you bring to the restaurant with you.  

    I teach my kids these things and bring all our waste to their attention.  We have no grass and dont water and I put down handfuls of fertilizer on the plants every couple years, for close to 20 years.  I saw what a waste St Augustine was and killed my entire yard off.  I do spay roundup occasionally, and I know its toxic.  I hate seeing all these trucks running around with 1000's of gallons of chemicals in them going from yard to yard. I have developed a disdain for St Aug and the way it looks.

    Anyway, all that and what?  I still throw bags away sometimes, I still toss hooks in the garbage.  I am very conscious about all of it and hate it in many ways.  I am still a human in an unperfect world, but I am not a cancer or a virus.  I am stuck doing what I can without being a zealot and teaching my kids the same.  And there's for sure people who take it to a whole nother level and I am sure would look down on me for not doing enough.   

    If you want to point that kind of negativity at something, point it at the people who take and spend your money, perpetuate the problem, dont give 2 hoots and spend the money that is supposed to be/should be allocated to improve these things instead rather on new buildings, a fleet of drive home vehicles, pet projects etc.  There's your cancer.  

    If the people in charge had this mindset, we'd be focused on correcting the errors of our ways regardless of whether it was from greed or ignorance, from the past.  But the fact is, most if not all the people do not have that mindset so I dont know how it will improve.  But calling all of us a cancer is a whole nother level of cynical and I am a pretty jaded.....
  • acme54321acme54321 Posts: 322 Deckhand
    Chad said:
    Everytime I get takeout at a restaurant, I think - why hasnt someone decided to sell refillable, reusable containers that you bring to the restaurant with you.  

    They do, it's called Tupperware.
  • Grady-ladyGrady-lady Posts: 5,269 Admiral
    I agree with you, Chad.  There are many little ways we can minimize our own footprint - does it make headline news?...no, but we know.  

    On the subject of recycling - mr gl and I have a long standing debate over to rinse or not to rinse...whether or not it is worth the water used to rinse containers to be recycled.  He rinses, I toss. :)

    As to your original post - we have a place on a wide salt water canal that has a decent tidal flow - yet it really bothers me when neighbors clean fish and dump the carcasses in the water.  I freeze the carcasses and use them for crab bait.  Maybe it shouldn't bother me, because everything dumped is gone on the next outgoing tide - yet I put the carcasses in the trap and that 'essence' hangs around for several days...so who's polluting more, me or them? :)  
    I find my peace out on the sand...Beside the sea, not beyond or behind. R.A. Britt

  • shamrock1188shamrock1188 Posts: 272 Deckhand
    so who's polluting more, me or them?
    That is most likely about the same. You would have to look at the total carbon foot print for who is polluting more. Does one have a big diesel truck with a boat with a couple of old 2 stroke engines and the other have a Prius with a kayak on top for catching these fish. The pollution is just not what is thrown in the river but what we do in our everyday lives.  
  • Grady-ladyGrady-lady Posts: 5,269 Admiral
    so who's polluting more, me or them?
    That is most likely about the same. You would have to look at the total carbon foot print for who is polluting more. Does one have a big diesel truck with a boat with a couple of old 2 stroke engines and the other have a Prius with a kayak on top for catching these fish. The pollution is just not what is thrown in the river but what we do in our everyday lives.  
    I meant specifically throwing carcasses in the water vs 'soaking' them in crab traps, the impact on water quality, if at all.  Canal is salt.  
    I find my peace out on the sand...Beside the sea, not beyond or behind. R.A. Britt

  • shamrock1188shamrock1188 Posts: 272 Deckhand
    The fish carcasses dumped wound most likely get eaten that night and be gone. Fish carcasses in the crab trap will tend to rot if the crabs don't eat it right away and take oxygen out of the water. The crab trap may be lost and the Styrofoam buoy run over by a boat adding to the pollution. So I would say soaking the carcasses in the crab trap would be polluting more by just a little bit. The impact on water quality would be very minimal with just a few carcasses. The water quality diffidently would be impacted if a large amount of fish carcasses or scallop shells were dumped in the water at the same time like scallop season.     
  • Doc StressorDoc Stressor Homosassa, FLPosts: 2,366 Captain
    There is no difference at all whether you throw carcasses into a canal or use the same amount of carcasses in crab traps.

    If you transport 1 kg of nutrients from offshore to an inshore canal, you are putting 1 kg of extra nutrients into the system whether they are consumed overnight or over a period of several days. But if you remove some crabs, eat them, and dispose of everything on land and into a sewer system that treats the waste, using the carcasses for bait is less harmful than just throwing them into the canal. 

    The important point is if the system can handle the extra nutrients or not.  Everything is fine until you hit that tipping point where the extra nutrients cause oxygen depletion or overgrowth of weeds or algae.  
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 9,290 Admiral
    The fish carcasses dumped wound most likely get eaten that night and be gone. Fish carcasses in the crab trap will tend to rot if the crabs don't eat it right away and take oxygen out of the water. The crab trap may be lost and the Styrofoam buoy run over by a boat adding to the pollution.


    maybe you're one of the yahoos that need to learn how to run a boat without hitting buoys..
    bout had it with you non boat driving idiots.


    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • Grady-ladyGrady-lady Posts: 5,269 Admiral
    It was a rhetorical question sorta.  

    I was really speaking of personal traps off the dock in same salt canal with significant tidal flow, not commercial traps in open water.  It bothers me to see discarded carcasses floating - yet I put our carcasses in a trap and hang them off the dock for several days...just doing a little 'soul' searching.  I don't think either one is ultimately harmful  -  one is just visually unappealing.  


    A#1 - I remember seeing pictures of dead fish piled up in a canal down your way - this past winter?...we were gone. How long did it take for the critters to clean it up?

    Doc, we dispose of crab shells with the trash - since it's only collected once a week I triple bag and freeze until trash day. 
    I find my peace out on the sand...Beside the sea, not beyond or behind. R.A. Britt

  • shamrock1188shamrock1188 Posts: 272 Deckhand
    edited August 2018 #85
    ANUMBER1 said:
    The fish carcasses dumped wound most likely get eaten that night and be gone. Fish carcasses in the crab trap will tend to rot if the crabs don't eat it right away and take oxygen out of the water. The crab trap may be lost and the Styrofoam buoy run over by a boat adding to the pollution.


    maybe you're one of the yahoos that need to learn how to run a boat without hitting buoys..
    bout had it with you non boat driving idiots.



    NO I'am not the yahoo  boat driving idiot that keeps running over your buoys. I have a lot of respect for other people's property and hard working people on the water making a living.
  • BillyBilly ChassahowitzkaPosts: 2,672 Captain
    When we use the water and basically flush it down the toilet (Water run off) It now becomes toxic and flows in our waterways and forms red tide. 
    Not to split hairs here but it likely forms toxic blue-green algae if anything. It may or may not "feed" red tide but it doesn't form it, create it, or cause it. I realize the press keeps confusing the two, we shouldn't though, on a discussion like this one. If someone wants more information ask Doc as he could explain it better than I can explain it. 

    Bill
    "And the ocean is howling for the things that might have been..."
  • capt louiecapt louie citrus countyPosts: 9,675 Moderator
    "maybe you're one of the yahoos that need to learn how to run a boat without hitting buoys..
    bout had it with you non boat driving idiots."

    So that's the thanks' I get for salvaging one of your traps for you.  B)   
    "You'll get your weather"
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 9,290 Admiral
    It was a rhetorical question sorta.  

    I was really speaking of personal traps off the dock in same salt canal with significant tidal flow, not commercial traps in open water.  It bothers me to see discarded carcasses floating - yet I put our carcasses in a trap and hang them off the dock for several days...just doing a little 'soul' searching.  I don't think either one is ultimately harmful  -  one is just visually unappealing.  


    A#1 - I remember seeing pictures of dead fish piled up in a canal down your way - this past winter?...we were gone. How long did it take for the critters to clean it up?

    Doc, we dispose of crab shells with the trash - since it's only collected once a week I triple bag and freeze until trash day. 
    bout 2 weeks between me and my wheel barrow, buzzards, raccoons, and my dogs..lol
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 9,290 Admiral
    "maybe you're one of the yahoos that need to learn how to run a boat without hitting buoys..
    bout had it with you non boat driving idiots."

    So that's the thanks' I get for salvaging one of your traps for you.  B)   
    if you did, I thank you..
    This summer has been one of the worst ever for me in terms of destroyed traps.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • capt louiecapt louie citrus countyPosts: 9,675 Moderator
    It was a stone crab trap that "lost" it's bouy.. I tied it to another near by.

    "You'll get your weather"
  • VertigoVertigo Yankeetown, FLPosts: 612 Officer
    The Florida Cycle

    Nature operates in cycles: the water cycle, the nitrogen cycle, the carbon cycle.  These are the big ones we hear about, but there are plenty of other cycles.  A cycle that applies to this discussion is one I call the Florida Cycle.

    Here's how it works.

    1.  Florida is a pristine wilderness, with humidity, heat and insects making it unsuitable for habitation (except by extremely tough or extremely desperate people).

    2.  Henry Flagler, air conditioning, insect control and the aftermath of WW2 (emphasis on air conditioning and insect control).  Make Florida a desirable retirement and vacation location.

    3.  People flock to Florida to enjoy the environment that air conditioning and insect control have created.  Floridia's economy becomes dependent on continuous growth, thus politicians are hesitant to do anything that may prevent as many homes as possible being crammed into what used to be swamp or to keep business from taking advantage of the environment swamp draining, insect control and A/C have created.

    4.  Too many people take up too much space, use too many resources, pollute too much water and over time destroy the environment that attracted them in the first place.

    5.  Florida's economy collapses.  Yankee's all move back to Michigan, alligators and insects once again rule  Miami west of the Orange Bowl (now Marlin's Park). 

    6. The cycle starts over.

    I'm guessing that we're in the early stages of step 4 and about 20 to 50 years from step 5.  I'm also guessing that, like Natures big cycles, there's not much we can do to change things.  More people want sugar in their coffee and cheap real estate with lots of sunshine than care about how good the fishing is.  Politicians will always pander to money. 

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