no scallop shells in the river (Homosassa)

permit_me

Chad said:

  What's the deal/concern - another liberal movement to tell us more things we cant do?  Legitimate?

Yeah, its a liberal movement to correct **** tourists that dump shells without knowing or caring about the result. Watchout, we are coming for your right to harvest fish next!

Conservation should not a liberal monopoly. 

joszaf

Doc Stressor said:

Either clean the scallops offshore (which lets you keep more meat) or take the shells and guts back offshore when you're done cleaning them on the property. 

Going for the first time this year and I've seen people mention cleaning them offshore. With fishing you have to bring the whole fish to shore before cleaning. How to you prove your daily limit is not exceeded with shucked scallop meat in a bag? 

Soda Popinski

joszaf said:

Doc Stressor said:

Either clean the scallops offshore (which lets you keep more meat) or take the shells and guts back offshore when you're done cleaning them on the property. 

Going for the first time this year and I've seen people mention cleaning them offshore. With fishing you have to bring the whole fish to shore before cleaning. How to you prove your daily limit is not exceeded with shucked scallop meat in a bag? 

The bag limit is set in pints for cleaned meat.   easier IMO than whole ones 

Reel Teal

Here is a great link for the regulations of you are going for the first time:

http://myfwc.com/fishing/saltwater/recreational/bay-scallops/

Chad

permit_me said:

Chad said:

  What's the deal/concern - another liberal movement to tell us more things we cant do?  Legitimate?

Yeah, its a liberal movement to correct **** tourists that dump shells without knowing or caring about the result. Watchout, we are coming for your right to harvest fish next!

Conservation should not a liberal monopoly. 

sorry the liberal comment struck a nerve.  Lets keep the discussions positive and informative.  All my carcasses always go back in the river or ocean.  Never a problem or detrimental to the local waters.  So, its very non-intuitive that this would be a problem.  And if it is this major of a problem and its been going on for so long, why in the hell are the signs only posted this year? 

I also contributed to a membership at Homosassa River Alliance yesterday after Doc posted and I poked around on their website.  I get it that the true locals must hate scallop season for what it has become in their local waters.  But some of us love Homosassa and respect the waterways, everywhere we go for that matter!

Another question I thought to ask - I dont know what they are called, but the blue long tentacle things that like to string out on the grass.  they look like the texture of bubble gum.  Then when you touch them, they retract back into their little hole....I did not see ONE of those this year.  Comments?

Slacker

I have not seen the blue stringy things either?

Cyclist

Some sort of worm, Doc would know. I never see them north of Homa or Crystal and have not been this year. The first time I saw them I though someone had unspooled some seriously heavy mono....then it was gone!

Enyar

Doc Stressor said:

There is a huge difference in the ability of the river to turn over nutrients vs the Gulf. It's not at all the same. 

When you clean scallops or fish in the river, you are bringing nutrients from the Gulf into a freshwater environment that is naturally nutrient poor.  When fish grow and die in the Gulf, there is no net change in the nutrient level. The biological system out there has evolved to turn over those nutrients.  Everything from scavaging fish to bacteria works efficiently to recycle the carbon, phosphates, and nitrates back into the food chain. Plus, there is plenty of aeration from wave activity to keep oxygen levels high.

The natural flow of freshwater from the springs contains relatively little nitrogen and phosphate although it is much higher now than in the past due to human activity. The rate of flow is also now greatly reduced. The river used to be gin clear flowing freshwater down to at least Riverhaven with a bottom that was covered by eelgrass. That's all gone now due to the inflow of nutrients from a number of different human sources ranging from the enrichment of the groundwater itself to septic tanks and urban runoff. Throwing additional nutrients into the system from the Gulf just makes things worse. And as mentioned, scallop shells accumulate on the bottom of the river and prevent growth of most plants except for mats of Lyngbya and cut feet up at the springs. 

Since Proline Boats shut down and the Power Plant has cut way back, there are few jobs in this area other than those that depend on the health of the river and the surrounding natural environment.  So the local folks are becoming increasingly aware of the importance of maintaining the health of the natural systems. 

A local group called the Homosassa River Alliance has been doing a lot to promote the preservation and hopefully the recovery of the river.  

Quit spewing that snowflake fake news!

Enyar

CK1 said:

Unfortunately I think the new normal for Floridians is not doing things that we have always taken for granted.   We have twenty million people in this state.  We all leave an impact.   

While no means a tree hugger I have personally been trying to do more to lesson my impact.   When I mow the grass I make sure I blow the clippings back into the yard. I have cut back on fertilizer and I won't be putting saint Augustine down at my new house.   

The current issues with water in south Florida is a perfect example of this.   We all need to change a little or this state we love is doomed.   If that means not throwing shells in the river that's a small price to pay.  

Heck yeah!  Well done man. 

Grady-lady

Doc Stressor said:

The root of the problem is too many people.  A body of water can take an increased nutrient load up to a tipping point where suddenly it can't handle anymore. Then things go downhill.  But people will always remember doing things the way that they always did them without doing any apparent harm. 

I miss the old days and I go a long way back.  But if we don't change the way we have been doing things, everything is going to get a lot worse fast. 

When put like that it's very depressing.  Based on personal observations of changes in the Silver River, with its very low impact use and no nearby homes for yard and septic run-off I fear that tipping point you mentioned has been reached and is now affecting areas far from the sources of 'pollution'.  The water is still clear but the bottom just a little ways down is basically a dead zone with little to no grass.

I'm afraid that if the truth were told it would be that water taken from the aquifer beyond the ability to recharge is a major source of decreased health in the spring fed rivers.  With a population the size of ours I don't how we correct that.  I know that every little bit helps - not watering and fertilizing grass (including golf courses) is a no-brainer as is not dumping nutrient-rich debris into the rivers.  I just hope that we can find big solutions too that address the primary causes, not just more obvious but periphery causes.

Though wonders have been accomplished in Tampa Bay which went from clear water fit for night wading for crab and sight fishing for trout in the day to a cess pool and back again in just my lifetime...well almost back again, great progress has been made.  

Last time I went snorkeling  in Hunter Springs (2 yrs ago) I was appalled.  Very little to no grass and everything covered with a thick layer of what looked like white silt, or ash.  Saw something similar while snorkeling in Bonaire a few years back.  

Cyclist

For the life of me I do not know why Florida politicians allow international corporations to pump our SPRING water, put it into plastic bottles and then ship it out of the state.

Whatever law that allows this needs to be abolished.

permit_me

Chad, i wasnt trying to troll there. I just feel that the liberal v cons thing is outta control. Some of us find ourselves caught in the middle and like to be able to make up our minds on each topic vs taking a broad firm stance. Its ok to want clean waters, even if it ultimately is more costly to not just the business community, but the community in whole.  

permit_me

Cyclist said:

For the life of me I do not know why Florida politicians allow international corporations to pump our SPRING water, put it into plastic bottles and then ship it out of the state.

Whatever law that allows this needs to be abolished.

Right on. We need that water. It'd be interresting to know how much water is actually bottled from FL springs??? We have a huuuge number of springs in our state and as we have seen that water is a highly valuable commodity that should be preserved and treasured, not squandered for a quick buck.

ANUMBER1

Hopefully all the recent rains will help recharge some..

I'm not a lb but i will tell you that salt water intrusion and rising seawater is real.

Doc Stressor

I think those blue threadlike things are likely tentacles of spaghetti worms. The worm lives in a tube down in the sediment and extends the tentacles only at certain stages of the tide. I haven't noticed their presence or absence this year, but species often seem to disappear in the Gulf from time to time. The Gulf is a very dynamic ecosystem.

Politics have a way of clouding people's minds. I've had local folks tell me that the water level isn't rising and that all those dead trees were killed by the No Name Storm of 1993.  But it's becoming harder to deny the changes when they are happening faster each year.

tijereta

They are probably tentacles of a spaghetti worm . First time I saw them in slack tide, I went to pick up the "Power Pro"  , and then it was gone. Pretty cool animal!

acme54321

If you follow the blue tentacles in sandy patches you can "blow" the sand away with your hand and expose the tubeworm.

Grady-lady

Cyclist said:

For the life of me I do not know why Florida politicians allow international corporations to pump our SPRING water, put it into plastic bottles and then ship it out of the state.

Whatever law that allows this needs to be abolished.

You would deny clean drinking water to other folks?...build a wall perhaps?   I would prefer to deny green lawns and clean cars.

According to UF we draw billions of gallons of water from the aquifer every day - 60% or so is for residential use.  How much of that is for drinking - how much for other - lawns, laundry, showers etc.  How much water does the Gainesville biomass plant use daily - a million gallons or more?

The St. John's River WMD thinks the flow from Silver Springs can be reduced even further without damage...I question that.
http://www.ocala.com/news/20170313/water-agency-oks-reduced-flow-for-silver-springs

The amount of drinking water drawn from the aquifer is miniscule compared to other uses.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ae287


Pete - I'm not saying whether taking water from the aquifer to bottle for drinking is right or wrong - I'm saying it's the least of our problems.

Grady-lady

ANUMBER1 said:

Hopefully all the recent rains will help recharge some..

I'm not a lb but i will tell you that salt water intrusion and rising seawater is real.

I believe that the salt water intrusion is undeniable, at least up into King's Bay. I don't have any facts, just observation, but it appears the nutrient level is very high with not enough flow to effectively flush it out.  I'm curious to know if it's reduced spring flow, or rising seawater, or both causing the problem.  The only large spring I can offer empirical evidence about is Silver Springs and it's reduced flow miles inland from either coast...and the apparent damage done to native species by an invasive species.  
My daughter tells me that  the bottom of Salt Springs near the headwaters have been denuded of eelgrass also.

mburke001 aka TripleB

Grady-lady said:

Cyclist said:

For the life of me I do not know why Florida politicians allow international corporations to pump our SPRING water, put it into plastic bottles and then ship it out of the state.

Whatever law that allows this needs to be abolished.

You would deny clean drinking water to other folks?...build a wall perhaps?   I would prefer to deny green lawns and clean cars.

According to UF we draw billions of gallons of water from the aquifer every day - 60% or so is for residential use.  How much of that is for drinking - how much for other - lawns, laundry, showers etc.  How much water does the Gainesville biomass plant use daily - a million gallons or more?

The St. John's River WMD thinks the flow from Silver Springs can be reduced even further without damage...I question that.
http://www.ocala.com/news/20170313/water-agency-oks-reduced-flow-for-silver-springs

The amount of drinking water drawn from the aquifer is miniscule compared to other uses.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ae287


Pete - I'm not saying whether taking water from the aquifer to bottle for drinking is right or wrong - I'm saying it's the least of our problems.

I don't know where the Villages get their water, but even during the heavy storms and hot sunny days, their sprinkler systems do not stop and their lawns are always green. They have to get their water from somewhere. Also go into any private developments, their landscapes are green as compared to many individual homes, who follow Florida watering standards. Then you have golf courses, with the watering and using of fertilizers, thats also used for housing developments. Everything I guess could possibly seep down into the aquifers, besides the rising sea water. Then you have the diversion of water by Politicians and scientists who think that whatever they do is correct. Then come later and say they made a mistake (maybe). Just my opinion.

Chad

permit_me said:

Chad, i wasnt trying to troll there. I just feel that the liberal v cons thing is outta control. Some of us find ourselves caught in the middle and like to be able to make up our minds on each topic vs taking a broad firm stance. Its ok to want clean waters, even if it ultimately is more costly to not just the business community, but the community in whole.  

Alot of good topics in this thread, and trust me I hear ya on the above.  I have been registered NPA for years, and I will just leave it at that......

Thanks for the info on the worms...first time I remember not seeing even 1 and it was actually my wife that mentioned it and then I really started looking for them and still didnt see one.  From an outsiders perspective the gulf (scallop grounds area) looks very healthy to me.  The reef was crackely and for as long as I have been coming there, it seems kind of timeless as far as it never changing.  I made sure and point out to the kids and everyone on the boat how this is not a sand hole, this is a living ecosystem.  Maybe its technically not a reef, but it is to me.  Hard bottom with plants, organisms and life growing from it.  Provides a new perspective for someone taking it in rather than just thinking it is a flats "sandhole".  

Thank you for the edumication.  I will be sure and handle my discards appropriately from now on.  I wish the signs had been posted long ago.  

Grady-lady

I don't know who to believe anymore - but have read that much of the water used eventually returns to the aquifer with the exception of irrigation which loses water to evaporation.  We have too many people using too much water - what do we do? I dunno...other than pay attention, try to sift fact from hyperbole and do what we can to conserve in our own little piece of paradise.

surfman

The water from a spring is no different than the water from the aquifer, they both are the same source, just a spring is a natural direct connection. Wells drill down into the aquifer and can go different depths and that often determines the "quality " of the water but, there are areas where water can vary from wells of the same depth only yards apart due to the stone or soil  that the ground is made up of. Saltwater intrusion is the effect of salt water basically replacing the fresh water due to humans pumping the fresh water out of the ground causing a negative "pressure" or flow of the aquifer. The city of St. Pete once had fresh water wells but saltwater intrusion caused them to start looking for other sources way back in the 1920's of so. If enough people populate the peninsula of Florida it is feasible that we may have to import our water from Georgia some day, I think that is a long way off though.

Aquifers are replenished by surface water seeping through the soil in a downward direction over long periods of time. Lots of water evaporates but, it returns with the next rain. The soil acts like a filter so that you don't end up with pond water in the aquifer. Basically and oversimplified explanation.

This is why retention ponds and such are important as opposed to channeling the water off the land and into the river. In a retention pond a lot of the water will soak into the ground adding to the ground water which eventually makes its way to the aquifer. Hopefully.

CK1

I am as about a conservative a person as you will find.   But I do think the Republican Party has been lacking in the conservation area for Florida.  

I know most of my fishing friends are conservative and are upset about the water issues in south Florida.   We all need to be talking to our elected officials and letting them know what is happening on Lake Okeechobee is unacceptable.   

surfman

I don't disagree to a point but, often times good legislation is coupled with so much garbage that it is often voted down and the ones that load up the legislation only want to point out the good things that got voted out. Trust me there is c.r.a.p. on both sides of the isle.

shamrock1188

One way to look at it is if we don't use the water it will just flow into the gulf and be wasted. If the price of water would increase people would use less of it. Some people are willing to pay more for water then gasoline. If you pay $1.00 for a bottle of water you are paying $3.79 for a gallon of water.

Reel Teal

Wasted? What? 

The world has never wasted water in its existence. I mean it rains in Florida from time to time...can you please elaborate on how its wasted?

StankBait

X2

Look up water cycle. Nothing leaves the earth ,it is just where it is at the time.

acme54321

At the end of the day we shouldn't be putting anything in our inshore waters, period.  Every body of water in this state has elevated nutrient levels.  If you want to be part of the solution to our water problems quit throwing carcasses back, stop fertilizing, bag grass clippings, quit watering....the list goes on.

tampaspicer

ANUMBER1 said:

Hopefully all the recent rains will help recharge some..

I'm not a lb but i will tell you that salt water intrusion and rising seawater is real.

Yes it is. Read my post about the Chaz in this thread. It's sad.