What is the the best management plan for public hunting

spanglerspangler daBurgPosts: 614 Officer
So far as the lands are managed by the state, for the public, what should the primary adopted plan be?

It's clear quotas are killing the industry here in Florida.  imho.  And personally, I think every resident of Florida should have equal opportunity and access to public lands and resources.  For whatever recreating it is that they want to do. 

It's been noted that in sfwmd, quotas have successfully been removed.  I'd like to know how that worked.

Should we have quotas at all?  Should 10% of be quotas?  What makes sense?  Anyone at all think quotas, as they exist, is the way to go?

What about a fcfs system?  Up to whatever is a reasonable daily capacity for each wma?  I think I like that one.
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Replies

  • H20dadH20dad Posts: 843 Officer
    Sfwmd has tons of quotas. I think they invented them and keep them alive. 
  • LostconchLostconch Posts: 97 Greenhorn
    I don't understand why we cannot hunt all state forest land instead of selected portions. I agree take away quotas and open up all state land
  • Rich MRich M Posts: 1,008 Officer
    The quota system is used out west and in other states - why not here?

    Not all places could handle an increase in pressure or kill numbers.
    Not everyone wants to hunt "romp & stomp" style everywhere either.

    FCFS can work if there is someone there to man the check station - close the place down once X deer have been killed for the year???

    The only downside I can see to FCFS is the line of cars on the side of the road the day before and folks who want to just hunt afternoons not being able to get in.  Sometimes the fastest and most aggressive guys aren't the best ones to have around cause they'll always be there...
  • Soda PopinskiSoda Popinski GrovelandPosts: 8,483 Admiral
    Rich M said:
    The quota system is used out west and in other states - why not here?

    Not all places could handle an increase in pressure or kill numbers.
    Not everyone wants to hunt "romp & stomp" style everywhere either.

    FCFS can work if there is someone there to man the check station - close the place down once X deer have been killed for the year???

    The only downside I can see to FCFS is the line of cars on the side of the road the day before and folks who want to just hunt afternoons not being able to get in.  Sometimes the fastest and most aggressive guys aren't the best ones to have around cause they'll always be there...
    And they shoot anything that moves.   
    People use statistics the way a drunk uses a street light, for support rather than illumination.
  • spanglerspangler daBurgPosts: 614 Officer
    Anyone ever been to a daily quota wma, that was filled up?  Other than the tight quota duck hunts..
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 7,662 Admiral
    nope... never seen or heard of one... proves a great point
  • swampwalkerswampwalker Posts: 1,263 Officer
    I remember driving to a daily quota (Upper Hills) and being in line when the vehicle in front of me had to turn around because they hit the quota-I was really bummed. Remember locals sitting at the check stations waiting on hunters going home to turn quotas in. Sometimes people working the station would collect the quotas and call their buddies with an offer of the returned quota.

    Most of my relatives gave up hunting or now hunt out of state. Some of them also got really lazy...people put out the corn for them, and when they have success, they take the whole critter to the processor, and pick it up later. They never know for sure if they even get the backstrap & tenderloins. Oh well - they're happy with the setup, so all us great!
    The original - "Renaissance Redneck"
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 7,662 Admiral
    That's a weird post w lots of ??? but confirms a few things.

    FWCC has screwed the pooch and deterred Fl hunters from hunting.. but heck we have a new acronym to get behind RRR
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 8,634 Admiral
    spangler said:
    Anyone ever been to a daily quota wma, that was filled up?  Other than the tight quota duck hunts..
    Devils Hammock/spring turkey, better get there real early.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 7,662 Admiral
    that's a great experience... get up around Midnight, drive tired as **** wait in line, hunt all day then drive home tired as **** again... perfect for RRR
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 8,634 Admiral
    that's a great experience... get up around Midnight, drive tired as **** wait in line, hunt all day then drive home tired as **** again... perfect for RRR
    better be there at midnight.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • GRIZZLGRIZZL Posts: 726 Officer
    HAHAHAHAH...read all of the above and then comprehend that the state thinks were are in need of recruiting MORE hunters....FUBAR
  • GRIZZLGRIZZL Posts: 726 Officer
    that's a great experience... get up around Midnight, drive tired as **** wait in line, hunt all day then drive home tired as **** again... perfect for RRR
    Most states/places I hunt this is the norm. Recently, the GM's allowed the line to form at night after 7pm (after hunting hours have passed) and give out all passes for the next day by 8PM. That way you can go home/sleep and getup and get to your stand at ANY time you want. They could do First Come First Served the night BEFORE at the check station without adding any software or oversight not already on site...you would save allot of money bt scrapping the online system and make it as FAIR as you can get...again the way it is is FUBAR
  • GRIZZLGRIZZL Posts: 726 Officer
    And this is for EACH DAY..not a Quota period. People can get inline at anytime to hunt the next day. Hunt the Morn and come back and get inline...etc

  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 7,662 Admiral
    do you realize what u are saying... OMG what has this turned out to be
  • GRIZZLGRIZZL Posts: 726 Officer
    do you realize what u are saying... OMG what has this turned out to be
    Just a discussion...what other solutions are there. I've hunted the above method and find it better than what is now in place...just my opinion
  • HollywoodcorollaHollywoodcorolla Posts: 239 Deckhand
    There are a few fcfs places in Florida. .. won’t say where!!!
    they get filled up with no problem on the weekdays. 
    Weekedns are quota. Weekdays are fcfs. 

    I’m for quota places. Have to earn the change to hunt   Pristine areas. If everyone hunted them. The game quality would go down and nonternal 
  • spanglerspangler daBurgPosts: 614 Officer
    edited August 3 #19
    I don't think everything has to be a r&s, per say.  But should MOST wmas be quotas of some type?  Obviously, there are people that want the experience that the current quota system provides.  I have to believe that is why they are implemented.  They are serving a portion of those surveyed who 'think' they're getting what they're asking for.

    I've only been to a handful of daily quotas.  They didn't feel crowded to me.  The check station attendants always tell me they never fill up.  Just my small window.

    I think if there were more options, the crowding wouldn't be such an issue.  I'll bet I find that a lot of the daily quotas that fill up, are tight.  Like Devil's Hammock.  Of course they run out, they give out 15 of them.  Not that I necessarily think that's a bad number.  It puts you at 1 hunter per 500 acres (they could maybe double that and still be great?).  The problem there isn't the number of quotas, it's that the property is 7,600 acres.  The problem is not enough land.  Same thing with upper hills wma.  Which happens to be located in a crazy densely populated urban area with very little in the way of other options.

    I see another spreadsheet on the way.  Sorry.  But I'm working on one for doe opportunity too.  Really, I need to higher someone to build a spider to crawl the fwc sight and organize all the data for me in a meaningful way...

    The reason they keep taking opportunity away, is because there are not enough of us, in voice, to challenge the other growing group of voices that would just as soon see us out of there completely.  I hope everyone understands that.  If you don't want more hunters, you need to motivate yourself and the others you know to start doing something to protect what we have left.  In a very serious and diligent way.

  • GRIZZLGRIZZL Posts: 726 Officer
    spangler said:

    The reason they keep taking opportunity away, is because there are not enough of us, in voice, to challenge the other growing group of voices that would just as soon see us out of there completely.  I hope everyone understands that.  If you don't want more hunters, you need to motivate yourself and the others you know to start doing something to protect what we have left.  In a very serious and diligent way.

    Not to make me more unpopular than ever...the only way to do the above is to increase the revenue stream so that our contributions are NOT Ignored. I mentioned it earlier;
    1) Make people have an ACTIVE Hunting License and Deer Permit JUST TO APPLY for a Hunt not just a Management Permit. Most of "US" will have that already after all this is a HUNTING Permit
    2) Said Before Out of County vs In County fees
    3) Put a $$(TBD) on EACH Permit Application to weed out the Antis and non committed

    Do any/all of the above and you'll get more HUNTER to HUNT and the Hunter per Acre target will be at capacity not under utilized. This is still allot cheaper than a lease.

    You could introduce a hardship exemption for those who need the money for food and basics so they aren't punished-easily verified on the exemption application..

    Now with all that said...I am perfectly OK doing what I am doing. Hunting Fla every other year and then maybe not at all if I choose to buy some land up north (thinking on it). Its more about my son who still has only 2 weeks off per year for vacation and has trouble going north with me sometimes.

    I too, like Spangler, don't see the Quota recipients at the WMA the day of the hunt. I understand not all people can take 4 days off to hunt..so WHY not have 2 Day Quotas 1) Weekend 2) 2 Weekdays same week. That would double our Quota capacity..If you scout properly beforehand,that is enough time to get on a deer

    Remember, this is discussion.
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 7,662 Admiral
    What was wrong with the way things were?
  • ChonggChongg Posts: 409 Deckhand
    edited August 3 #22
    Formally organize, raise money and hire a lobbyist. That's how things get done in this state. Otherwise, you're just another gadfly who sends emails and shows up to meetings. In a perfect world, that would be enough to move the needle. But it is what it is.
  • GRIZZLGRIZZL Posts: 726 Officer
    What was wrong with the way things were?
    Was that open areas to all? I don't know how things were...more land available? I know many issues were involved in some historical hunting methods emoting restrictions...Swamp Buggies restrictions...closed roads for all motorized vehicles..etc.
  • GRIZZLGRIZZL Posts: 726 Officer
    Chongg said:
    Formally organize, raise money and hire a lobbyist. That's how things get done in this state. Otherwise, you're just another gadfly who sends emails and shows up to meetings. In a perfect world, that would be enough to move the needle. But it is what it is.
    Seems like this is something the Gun shops and Sporting Goods stores would have been doing..but not??? Wonder why they don't promote access the way they do X-Bows,,
  • Rich MRich M Posts: 1,008 Officer
    The old saying - "He just wanted it more" comes to mind.  

    Back in the day there were some special hunts about 1.5 hrs from home that my dad tried to get me on (this is about 20 years before the term "youth hunt" was invented) - we had to be there by 0430 or 0500 and put our names in the hat - then they did a blind drawing, I even got to pick the names out of the "hat" once.  Be about 150 guys showing for 20 hunting spots.  You guessed it - after a couple of tries we stopped going.  Cost was sleep, three hours driving, and the loss of being able to do something else.

    What if you have to drive 2 to 3 hours to get there to stand in line?  Better leave early, right?

    This just doesn't seem conducive to scouting a lot to prep for a hunt, time well spent hunting/waiting in line, or what-ever.  Especially if you have to fight just to hunt every day.  Not conducive to a quality hunt in any way shape or form.

    That would leave the slackers, self-employed, or guys with extra vacation time the ability to soak up all the hunting opportunities.  Then the state/Gov/hunting community whines about not having enough hunters, selling enough licenses, or what-not.
  • Soda PopinskiSoda Popinski GrovelandPosts: 8,483 Admiral
    Rich M said:
    The old saying - "He just wanted it more" comes to mind.  

    Back in the day there were some special hunts about 1.5 hrs from home that my dad tried to get me on (this is about 20 years before the term "youth hunt" was invented) - we had to be there by 0430 or 0500 and put our names in the hat - then they did a blind drawing, I even got to pick the names out of the "hat" once.  Be about 150 guys showing for 20 hunting spots.  You guessed it - after a couple of tries we stopped going.  Cost was sleep, three hours driving, and the loss of being able to do something else.

    What if you have to drive 2 to 3 hours to get there to stand in line?  Better leave early, right?

    This just doesn't seem conducive to scouting a lot to prep for a hunt, time well spent hunting/waiting in line, or what-ever.  Especially if you have to fight just to hunt every day.  Not conducive to a quality hunt in any way shape or form.

    That would leave the slackers, self-employed, or guys with extra vacation time the ability to soak up all the hunting opportunities.  Then the state/Gov/hunting community whines about not having enough hunters, selling enough licenses, or what-not.
    Haven't even considered a FL hunting license in 8 years.   Everywhere within a reasonable driving distance is either a romp n stomp, a quota you won't get pulled for, a WMA that's regularly poached, or dog hunting.     The only place I regularly see deer in FL is on my trips from Orlando to Boca along the turnpike. 
    People use statistics the way a drunk uses a street light, for support rather than illumination.
  • ChonggChongg Posts: 409 Deckhand
    GRIZZL said:
    Chongg said:
    Formally organize, raise money and hire a lobbyist. That's how things get done in this state. Otherwise, you're just another gadfly who sends emails and shows up to meetings. In a perfect world, that would be enough to move the needle. But it is what it is.
    Seems like this is something the Gun shops and Sporting Goods stores would have been doing..but not??? Wonder why they don't promote access the way they do X-Bows,,
    Probably because this issue isn't directly connected to their industry like cross bows. Many gun owners do not hunt. Can't say the same about crossbow owners. 

    There's a lot of organized advocacy re: public land access from groups based out west, like Backcountry Hunters and Anglers and Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership. I think a similar approach would be needed to make changes in Florida. 
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 7,662 Admiral
    I've always said a sportsmans fund should be an option when purchasing a hunting or fishing license. Now the problem is whose sticky hands get in that cookie jar right!
  • GRIZZLGRIZZL Posts: 726 Officer
    I've always said a sportsmans fund should be an option when purchasing a hunting or fishing license. Now the problem is whose sticky hands get in that cookie jar right!
    Maybe not an option.Like PittmanRobertson have a "tax to fund" with specific scope requirements to access and use as part of the bill authorizing taxation...Florida legislature and Gov could make that happen. Where could we float the idea...
  • GRIZZLGRIZZL Posts: 726 Officer
    Florida Forever is funded to acquire land for preservation and usage..tack onto that and expand? https://floridadep.gov/lands/environmental-services/content/florida-forever

  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 7,662 Admiral
    Florida Forever.... no thanks
    I think I said this before and im willing to get the ball rolling with some of my own $$ but I have a very large database with contacts / email addresses for every person who supplied on in Fl.

    We could conduct our own surveys and our own email blasts but it will take a nice chunk of change.

    Raising money w hunters is no ez task been thru many fund raising campaigns.. that's why I want a POS point of sale option when you buy a license....and no state agency has any control over that money!
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