FWC opens more gator tags then give nuisance trappers access before hunters

bgeorgebgeorge Plant City FLPosts: 1,372 Officer
Public Service Announcement courtesy of G&B Gator Gear

FWC is starting to issue nuisance trappers to go to the public access points around the State and take any alligator over 4ft.  These are the very same public points that permit holders get to use to go hunt.  They are to stay within 100 ft of the public access area but there is no restriction on them using these permits to guide clients or using calls to bring gators into their area.  Many of us feel that there should never be wide open permits given to the nuisance side for our public water bodies.  I have no problem in people getting them for the ponds and created during the process of making housing developments and golf courses etc.  I currently have the ones issued for Polk County in hand.  



As you can see FWC, SNAP is the one complaining and they are threats to people pets and livestock.  

The fact that they are doing this just before the public water hunts is in very bad taste.  

Some contact points for those who want to express their opinions

FWC Commissioners
http://myfwc.com/contact/fwc-staff/senior-staff/commissioners/ is a link to an online webform to email them or you should be able to use [email protected]
Next commission meeting is September 26-27, 2018, Havana/Tallahassee

Dwayne Carbonneau - Alligator Management Program Coordinator (352) 620-7726 office - [email protected]

Linda Collins - Program Manager Statewide Nuisance Alligator Program -866-392-4286 - [email protected] or [email protected]



The man who moves a mountain begins by carrying away small stones. Hopefully the next man is not dropping his stones on the mountain you are trying to move.
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Replies

  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 7,667 Admiral
    BOHICA
  • Tanman34Tanman34 Posts: 59 Greenhorn
    Bummer for you guys that hogged up all the tags!!!
  • H20dadH20dad Posts: 854 Officer
    I was just coming to post this. F the Fwc. They are scum!!!

    somebody needs to sue their **** to the ground. 
  • smellybucksmellybuck Posts: 39 Greenhorn
    I feel your pain but it wont affect where i'll be hunting my gators. While im not happy about it it's really like most hunting, you have to be creative and get off the beaten path.
  • gritsnhuntin1gritsnhuntin1 Posts: 803 Officer
    This is crazy, just like how the duck hunters get treated as well.
  • gladesmangladesman Posts: 983 Officer
    THE Only Solution = Revolution - Revolution meaning organize a boycott of hunting and fishing in Florida until specified changes in hunting fishing rules are made. Trust me FWC will come a runnin' to cure the complaints leading to a boycott well before any specified date to retain sales taxes collected on hunt, fish , boating etc goods..

    The high level political and bureaucratic squirming caused by the mere mention of a fish hunt boycott movement in Florida would qualify to be in prime time TV coverage.


  • smellybucksmellybuck Posts: 39 Greenhorn
    If you don't buy the tag someone else will. Hunters like myself are too addicted to their sport to sit out a year or two boycotting; especially knowing someone else will be hunting the same deer or catching all the fish. Imagine getting to advertise that: Hey all the locals are boycotting, come on down and buy an out of state tag=no one else is hunting or fishing right now.
  • gladesmangladesman Posts: 983 Officer
    U know what hunters are all about smellybuck - sure as heck ain't politics.
  • Florida BullfrogFlorida Bullfrog Posts: 1,558 Captain
    One of the assertions of the anti-FWC faction on this board is that the FWC currently has a secret anti-hunting agenda. 

    If that was so, wouldn’t a boycott of hunting play into that agenda? Conversely, if the FWC would be willing to cater to us to head off a boycott, wouldn’t that call into question whether the FWC is anti hunting? 
  • swampwalkerswampwalker Posts: 1,279 Officer
    I'll bet the non-hunting users would welcome a boycott! They'd quickly opt for the best times of the year to capitalize on the lack of hunters on many properties. We'd then play heck getting thise times back. Once a diff group licks in - it's Katy bar the door! FWC would be required to scramble to a new drummer....Be careful on this idea....
    The original - "Renaissance Redneck"
  • spanglerspangler daBurgPosts: 620 Officer
    I'm not cutting my nose to spite my face.. gonna keep hunting. BUT, FWC really does need to wake the F up.

    While they are selling most of our eggs to out of state farms (at HUGE discounts)
    Know the 'commercial' demand would be for about 10K permits this year
    They raffle off 5K at $275 a piece
    Then fcfs 1300 more (without reasonable notice)
    Now this...

    All the while, TOO MANY of us sit on the sidelines.

    R3

    ROTFLMAO


  • N. CookN. Cook Posts: 1,957 Captain
    If you want to "protest" it is not hard....emails and letters do work...with a followup attendance to the next FWC meeting where you can express your feelings directly to the people involved...from Commissioners to the Ex. Director...hunting staff...

    [email protected]
    [email protected]


    If you want respect for your comments....Comment respectfully!
  • ChonggChongg Posts: 421 Deckhand
    edited July 30 #14
    To play devil's advocate:
    It sounds like FWC is trying to reduce gator numbers. Harvesting eggs and allowing nuisance trapping are both more effective methods than recreational hunting. I would imagine that simply giving out more rec tags would diminish hunter experience (more crowded hunts) and not necessarily guarantee more removals, at least compared to the removal rates of a professional.  

    Back to the issue of hunter experience, allowing nuisance trapping to coincide with public recreational hunts works against that goal. At the very least, they could have prevented hunter blow back by restricting nuisance trapping during the Phase periods. Also allowing nuisance trappers to hunt any gator within a boundary, rather than targeting specific ones that have been reported, sounds more like hunting than nuisance removal. ESPECIALLY if what OP said about guiding clients is true.

    I wonder if the state is getting pressure to remove alligators near public access points after the Disney incident last year. 
  • H20dadH20dad Posts: 854 Officer
    Chongg said:
    To play devil's advocate:
    It sounds like FWC is trying to reduce gator numbers. Harvesting eggs and allowing nuisance trapping are both more effective methods than recreational hunting. I would imagine that simply giving out more rec tags would diminish hunter experience (more crowded hunts) and not necessarily guarantee more removals, at least compared to the removal rates of a professional.  

    Back to the issue of hunter experience, allowing nuisance trapping to coincide with public recreational hunts works against that goal. At the very least, they could have prevented hunter blow back by restricting nuisance trapping during the Phase periods. Also allowing nuisance trappers to hunt any gator within a boundary, rather than targeting specific ones that have been reported, sounds more like hunting than nuisance removal. ESPECIALLY if what OP said about guiding clients is true.

    I wonder if the state is getting pressure to remove alligators near public access points after the Disney incident last year. 
    That is quite possibly one of the more poorly thought out responses I’ve ever read on here, and that is saying a lot. 

    Your comments have no basis in fact. The state has never opened up alligators to over the counter tags and has never had a reasonably lengthed season. Open up gators with over the counter tags from August 15-March 15 and you will see lots of happy hunters and fewer nuisance gators. 

    You forget the season is very short, tag holders are limited to short times each day to hunt, and tags are awarded with low probability or repeated success of being drawn from one year to the next so getting to know an area well for recreational gator hunters is harder. 

    If the state did this this a guy could have a tag in his or his buddy’s pocket and while they are fishing they see a big gator or one that is a nuisance and they have the ability over a seven month period to get it. If gator numbers get too low they dial back the length of the season, then the hours to hunt them, then the number of tags. 


  • ChonggChongg Posts: 421 Deckhand
    Haha, what did I say that was so offensive to you? I wasn't even advocating for anything (other than not allowing nuisance trapping to coincide with recreational hunting). I was just pointing out that FWC isn't doing this arbitrarily to screw over hunters. Not even saying what they're doing is right or wrong. 


  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 1,724 Captain
    That's just the way he is Chongg.  Take it for what it's worth and then put it in the circular file, if you want get the highest and best use out of most of his comments.
  • H20dadH20dad Posts: 854 Officer
    Chongg said:
    Haha, what did I say that was so offensive to you? I wasn't even advocating for anything (other than not allowing nuisance trapping to coincide with recreational hunting). I was just pointing out that FWC isn't doing this arbitrarily to screw over hunters. Not even saying what they're doing is right or wrong. 


    Your reading comprehension is pathetic. 
  • scoop337scoop337 Posts: 45 Greenhorn
    H20dad said:
    Chongg said:
    Haha, what did I say that was so offensive to you? I wasn't even advocating for anything (other than not allowing nuisance trapping to coincide with recreational hunting). I was just pointing out that FWC isn't doing this arbitrarily to screw over hunters. Not even saying what they're doing is right or wrong. 


    Your reading comprehension is pathetic. 
    Your ability to have an intelligent conversation is pathetic
  • ChonggChongg Posts: 421 Deckhand
    chill out daddy!
  • H20dadH20dad Posts: 854 Officer
    scoop337 said:
    H20dad said:
    Chongg said:
    Haha, what did I say that was so offensive to you? I wasn't even advocating for anything (other than not allowing nuisance trapping to coincide with recreational hunting). I was just pointing out that FWC isn't doing this arbitrarily to screw over hunters. Not even saying what they're doing is right or wrong. 


    Your reading comprehension is pathetic. 
    Your ability to have an intelligent conversation is pathetic
    Compare and contrast my comments to those of the moron. Seriously, look at what he posts and then look at his explanation of his post. If you disagree with some of my content then feel free to explain why you disagree. Dingus aka Chongg is clearly not capable of having an intelligent discussion, I agree. 
  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 1,724 Captain
    Given that alligator tags today are good only for the calandar year in which they are issued, starting a season in one year and ending it in the next would require some.major changes to how things currently work at the federal and the state levels. Unlikely to see that happen.

    I think it would be more doable for the state to extend the current public water dates until mid December or so..

    If maximizing reproductive output is a goal, they should probably open the season a couple of weeks later too, so that it includes less of the nesting season.
  • H20dadH20dad Posts: 854 Officer
    So you could buy tags starting on January 1st and could only hunt gators January 1st through March 31st and again September 1 through December 31st. Make the tag over the counter for that year. 

    It would be over the counter not lottery......

    That’s your only plausible objection?!?
  • bgeorgebgeorge Plant City FLPosts: 1,372 Officer
    Changing seasons is not to bad.  We are not required to issue cites tags to people.  That is a choice.  There used to be a process where you brought you hides and had them validated and a cites tag attached.  In statue they still charge us for a hide validation but just give us a tag.  Price used to be based on length of hide.  

    Some states do not issue a cites tag and issue a state tag and they you can request a cites tag if you are going to look to move the hide out.  

    Now may be the right time to create a truly recreational hunt where harvest is lower cost and one per with no sale of alligator option.  Still let there be a commercial option for those wanting to pay more and have the ability to sell into the food chain or hide market.  

    All can be done within the state but fee stuff would have to go to the legislation.  That is unless they want to structure it like the did the bear hunt and just create a fee on the fly out of special opportunity language.  That way you could have one in one or two commission meetings.  If you want to go the legislative route there is desire on the political side to reduce alligator populations.  The problem is the way the allow the public to participate has little impact on where our attacks are coming from.
    The man who moves a mountain begins by carrying away small stones. Hopefully the next man is not dropping his stones on the mountain you are trying to move.
  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 1,724 Captain
    As the tags are currently are currently set up, using what you propose as season dates, they would either have to issue a tag for each calendar year for each hunter or have a split season that ended at the end of the calendar year. If they issued each hunter a tag for each calendar year, what would keep the tag for the second year valid only until mid March?

    On another subject:
    I wish the system for properties in the private lands program was set up where the tag was say an 18-19 tag that was good from September 15 or so to sometime before the nesting season began in the next calendar year. Expired tags/reports/ new applications/etc. could be handled during the nesting season when the season was closed for a couple of months. As it stands today, late December is out as is early January because you have to turn in your old tags and reports and reapply before new tags can be issued. That transition happens to occur during one of the best times of the year to hunt gators.
  • wayviswayvis FloridaPosts: 34 Greenhorn
    First I do not hunt gators and I did not hunt the last bear bear hunt. The reason is I don't see the need for charging the hunters for these hunt. This is noting but making money off the back of hunters by the FWC. We pay taxes just like every one else, but when a problem is created like the gators and bears they want to charge hunters to help with controlling these animals. I know many hunters are glad to pay these extra taxes, but I don't understand it.


  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 7,667 Admiral
    agreed...our fees are ridiculous
  • bgeorgebgeorge Plant City FLPosts: 1,372 Officer
    It is a very expensive hobby. It used to be a person got 15 tags. That cost over 15 made it reasonable. Then they took it to five then 2. Keep in mind all these fees were set 30+ years ago. I have been calling for a very large review of the alligator management plan. That should include reevaluating if letting a few people monopolize or eggs and hatchlings for a ridiculously low cost as well as starting a recreational low cost option for those not wanting to sell their harvest. And then there is the Nusiance program that people can use to charter year round expecially when they are given open permits to use any time they want. 

    I beleive some people are in need of having their focus broadened and stop catering to the few stakeholders they have for decades. 
    The man who moves a mountain begins by carrying away small stones. Hopefully the next man is not dropping his stones on the mountain you are trying to move.
  • gladesmangladesman Posts: 983 Officer
    wayvis said:
    First I do not hunt gators and I did not hunt the last bear bear hunt. The reason is I don't see the need for charging the hunters for these hunt. This is noting but making money off the back of hunters by the FWC. We pay taxes just like every one else, but when a problem is created like the gators and bears they want to charge hunters to help with controlling these animals. I know many hunters are glad to pay these extra taxes, but I don't understand it.


    Bears and Alligators are strictly management problems caused by Feds and FWC jointly as they hold hands. Totally agree there shouldn't be fees to hunt them and will go one step further and say the state should pay bounties on both species until such time as Newton Cook says '....they are there but rare to see.'
  • Big MakBig Mak Posts: 1,637 Captain
    I'm not surprised at all...
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 7,667 Admiral
    Anyone want to make a bet right now and put it in stone that we will see a huge collapse in alligator numbers? 
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