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Federal court says open-carry is a Constitutionally protected right.

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  • Reel TealReel Teal Posts: 3,963 Captain
    Cyclist said:
    Cyclist said:
    kellercl said:
    I greatly prefer open carry to conceal.  I would rather know who to stay away from.  Conceal should be illegal, open should be legal.  

    Wanting to stay away from people carrying guns isn't a knock or jab, just personal preference.  I would rather know.
    You are surrounded by guns every day of your life and every place that you go. Your neighbors have guns your preacher has a gun teachers at school have guns......
    And some people wonder why there are 73,505 nonfatal firearm injuries and 33,636 firearm deaths that occur in America every year.
    I don't wonder. I know exactly why that happens and I'm ok with it.
    Nearly 1,300 kids under the age of 18 die every year from gunshot wounds, and almost 6,000 go to the hospital for non-fatal firearm injuries.
    Losing it again

    No context, straight for the kids. Classic liberal tactic.

    330 million people in the United states.

     More kids were separated by their parents at the border in 1 week by trump thank killed by firearms in a year.
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 10,104 AG
    edited July 2018 #33
    Cyclist, why won’t you lead by example? Go turn in your shotguns that you claim you own. 
    At least then we will know you have the safest home in Hogtown. 
  • treemanjohntreemanjohn Posts: 7,998 Admiral
    Cyclist said:
    Cyclist said:
    Cyclist said:
    kellercl said:
    I greatly prefer open carry to conceal.  I would rather know who to stay away from.  Conceal should be illegal, open should be legal.  

    Wanting to stay away from people carrying guns isn't a knock or jab, just personal preference.  I would rather know.
    You are surrounded by guns every day of your life and every place that you go. Your neighbors have guns your preacher has a gun teachers at school have guns......
    And some people wonder why there are 73,505 nonfatal firearm injuries and 33,636 firearm deaths that occur in America every year.
    I don't wonder. I know exactly why that happens and I'm ok with it.
    Nearly 1,300 kids under the age of 18 die every year from gunshot wounds, and almost 6,000 go to the hospital for non-fatal firearm injuries.
    Frankly that is just life.... 500,000 people a year go to the ER due to bicycle accidents. Look at the suffering and burden on the health care system caused by bicycles.
    A typical life includes getting shot by someone?
    Something has to kill you. What percentage of those gunshot victims deserved it? What percentage put themselves in a terrible situation? What percentage were killed by felons who didn't even have the legal ability to carry that firearm? Please let me know when you follow up I'm looking forward to it
    We’re like the piggy bank that everybody is robbing, and that ends
  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,340 AG
    Gun nuts!!!!!!!!!!!
  • pottydocpottydoc Posts: 5,643 Admiral
    Anti gun nuts!!!!!!!!!
  • kellerclkellercl Posts: 13,059 AG
    Mixed nuts!
    #Lead beakerhead specialist 

    "Soul of the mind, key to life's ether. Soul of the lost, withdrawn from its vessel. Let strength be granted, so the world might be mended. So the world might be mended."
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 10,104 AG
    Cyclist said:
    Gun nuts!!!!!!!!!!!
    It was the 9th circuit court. Do you understand that?
  • Florida BullfrogFlorida Bullfrog Posts: 4,847 Captain
    edited July 2018 #39
    The history of restrictions on carry is complicated as it relates to Constitutionality. It isn't cut or dry as either side would believe.

    1. The Second Amendment only applied to the Federal government, not the States, for most of the nation's history. The Founders intended that all of the Bill of Rights applied to the Feds only, and that's how it was construed for over a century. They trusted that citizens could more easily control State governments so restrictions on State action wasn't as necessary as restrictions on Federal action.

    2. As such, the Feds viewed the Second Amendment as absolute as it related to acts of Congress. That's why there was zero Federal gun legislation until the early 1900s. We know from legal and historical writings that they ("they" being judges and lawmakers) very much considered the "shall not be infringed" portion of the Second Amendment to be absolute. 

    3. As the Second Amendment didn't apply to the States, States were free to legislate guns, subject to their own constitutions and statutes.

    4. Most States had their own Right to Bear Arms written into their State constitutions so most States didn't do much to infringe on guns rights.

    5. Many States and municipalities had restrictions on open or concealed carry thruout the 1800s. These were not seen as infringements on the Second Amendment because the Second Amendment didn't apply to State or local acts. Nor were those restrictions often taken as infringements on State constitutions. 

    6. The Civil War happened. People spilled blood over differing views as to how the States and the Federal government should relate to each other. After the War, the Constitution was severely amended to make it clear that the Federal government was dominate over the States in many areas.

    7. The 14th Amendment, one of the post-War Amendments, subjected the States to a prohibition from taking the life or property of someone without Due Process. Due Process wasn't defined in the Amendment. The 14th Amendment was crafted in direct response to how the southern States had treated blacks and addressed concerns that black people would continue to be mistreated thru State action even though the South had lost. 

    8. In the 1900s the Courts started thinking about what Due Process actually means under the 14th Amendment. They decided it meant the same as Due Process in the Federal 5th Amendment. That would mean that possibly some or all of the Bill of Rights was meant to be applied to the States. 

    9. The Courts have been applying most of the Bill of Rights against the States since that time. The Second Amendment was the last Right to be incorporated against the States in the 2000s. 

    10. What we have today is a blend of legal/historical traditions that don't necessarily gel. Prior the 14th Amendment, States had a tradition of lightly regulating manor of carry, while the Feds had no tradition because "shall not be infringed" was absolute. The two traditions then were parallel but separate. Now, when trying to figure out what is "historical" for Constitutional purposes, we have to recognize that applying Federal standards against the States changes what the status quo has historically been. Light prohibitions on carry are status quo for the States and prohibited for the Feds. Which should apply now? What was historical for the States or historical for the Feds?

    Its all academic. I can promise you now that even a pro-gun Court will allow some infringement. I'm not saying they ought. But they will. They've stated in dicta several times that recognizing a national Right to Bear Arms as applied universally doesn't mean that firearms can't be regulated. They may uphold the overturning the HI law because it was effectively acting as a gun ban. They may say that HI needs to pick a way to let their citizens carry, by either choosing open carry or conceal carry. But I could foresee the same court upholding other carry restrictions such as in permissive States like Florida that just basically checks to make sure you aren't a criminal or mental ill before issuing a permit. 
  • mindyabinessmindyabiness Posts: 8,006 Admiral
    Finally judges get it right. Now we should have constitutional carry and eliminate all fees and licenses for permits. You should not have to pay to exercise your constitutional right
    Your best post ever!
    How is it we allowed our lawmakers to take a right guaranteed by our constitution.....and sell it back to us?
    and most will consider the CCP a badge of honor, as if paying for a constitutional right is something to brag about....something to be proud of.
    Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon... No matter how good you are, the bird is going to crap on the board and strut around like it won anyway.
    I AM NOT A RACIST
  • mindyabinessmindyabiness Posts: 8,006 Admiral
    Fish Haid said:
    We need to implement a voting license.  Pay a fee, take a test, show proof of employment.
    And again....a perfect example of someone who would be proud to pay his government to excercise the right to vote, a constitutional right.
    Thats a rediculous premise.....you lose your job and you lose your civil rights.
    Maybe you should give that some more thought?

    Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon... No matter how good you are, the bird is going to crap on the board and strut around like it won anyway.
    I AM NOT A RACIST
  • Bimini TwistedBimini Twisted Posts: 11,443 AG
    Black guy and white guy both open carry, anyone silly enough to think they don't get treated differently? 
  • Turner River TerrorTurner River Terror Posts: 11,907 AG
    So maybe the CCW Course should teach Race Relations ?
    I think L. E. kinda teaches this.
    Killin and Grillin :grin
  • treemanjohntreemanjohn Posts: 7,998 Admiral
    Black guy and white guy both open carry, anyone silly enough to think they don't get treated differently? 
    What difference does that make? It's a constitutional right
    We’re like the piggy bank that everybody is robbing, and that ends
  • Bimini TwistedBimini Twisted Posts: 11,443 AG
    Black guy and white guy both open carry, anyone silly enough to think they don't get treated differently? 
    What difference does that make? It's a constitutional right
    People, especially LEOs, tend to have different reactions depending on the "looks" of the person openly carrying. Constitutional rights don't give the dead from the reality of our world any comfort.
  • dave44dave44 Posts: 18,948 AG
    Black guy and white guy both open carry, anyone silly enough to think they don't get treated differently? 
    What difference does that make? It's a constitutional right
    People, especially LEOs, tend to have different reactions depending on the "looks" of the person openly carrying. Constitutional rights don't give the dead from the reality of our world any comfort.
      This is a very strange interpretation of the refusal by some to use common sense.
  • mindyabinessmindyabiness Posts: 8,006 Admiral
    Black guy and white guy both open carry, anyone silly enough to think they don't get treated differently? 
    Irrelevant.
    There are stupid people everywhere. It's always been that way and probably always will.
    Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon... No matter how good you are, the bird is going to crap on the board and strut around like it won anyway.
    I AM NOT A RACIST
  • treemanjohntreemanjohn Posts: 7,998 Admiral
    edited July 2018 #48
    Black guy and white guy both open carry, anyone silly enough to think they don't get treated differently? 
    What difference does that make? It's a constitutional right
    People, especially LEOs, tend to have different reactions depending on the "looks" of the person openly carrying. Constitutional rights don't give the dead from the reality of our world any comfort.
    Thank you for an explanation. I do understand completely and you are right. Please let all black people know that they shouldn't exercise their 2A rights because of the police and while you're at it tell them not to use their first amendment rights because a ton of them have been shot for talking. Keep them in their place and remind them that their skin color really does matter. They'll appreciate you for it

    I'm taking notes. You're highly educational

    Blacks:
    Suppressed because of their skin color
    Uneducated
    Incapable of self sufficiency
    Poor wage earners
    Always shot by police
    Will never succeed because whites have everything
    IF they accidentally become successful it's because someone let them be
    Can't get in to college because of a highly partial administrations office 
    Aren't allowed to carry a firearm
    We’re like the piggy bank that everybody is robbing, and that ends
  • Big BatteryBig Battery Posts: 23,088 AG
    Black guy and white guy both open carry, anyone silly enough to think they don't get treated differently? 
    What difference does that make? It's a constitutional right
    People, especially LEOs, tend to have different reactions depending on the "looks" of the person openly carrying. Constitutional rights don't give the dead from the reality of our world any comfort.
    More cloaked racism from the left. It was the left that constantly fights to disarm the poor and black so that they cant defend themselves. Waiting periods, "Saturday night special" bans, etc...
  • GrizGriz Posts: 9,951 Admin
    I’m torn on this. Too many wahoos out there trying to upgrade the Johnson 
    The early bird may get the worm, but the Second Mouse gets the cheese. SW

    :Griz
  • pottydocpottydoc Posts: 5,643 Admiral
    I agree Griz. I think most people who will open carry just because they can are just showing off. I really can't see why anyone would want to, either. If there's a bad guy around, you just made yourself the number one target in the shooting gallery. Just get your permit, and carry concealed.
  • Turner River TerrorTurner River Terror Posts: 11,907 AG
    All Open Carry dos for me is give me a 30 second head start.
    When Joe Blow with the Colt Hog leg on his side get's Popped all attention is on him.
    I've got plenty of time to take cover and return fire to a distracted Felon...winning..
    Killin and Grillin :grin
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 10,104 AG
    FYI,  you open carry when you go hunting. 
  • 1outlaw1outlaw Posts: 1,877 Captain
    I prefer concealed, But I am glad the 9th made the right decision!
    Jason :USA
  • Mackeral SnatcherMackeral Snatcher Posts: 13,688 AG
    Open carry is just stupid.
    Why would you give the bad guys a heads up?
    THERE SHOULD BE NO COMMERCIAL FISHING ALLOWED FOR ANY SPECIES THAT IS CONSIDERED OVERFISHED.
  • ScoutboatScoutboat Posts: 2,575 Captain
    FYI,  you open carry when you go hunting. 
    You can add fishing and camping.
  • pottydocpottydoc Posts: 5,643 Admiral
    FYI,  you open carry when you go hunting. 
    That's been allowed for years. 
  • ScoutboatScoutboat Posts: 2,575 Captain
    Our Constution allows possession of firearms, as in your home.
    The tenth amendment left it up the states.
  • Big BatteryBig Battery Posts: 23,088 AG
    edited July 2018 #59
    Scoutboat said:
    Our Constution allows possession of firearms, as in your home.
    The tenth amendment left it up the states.
    If I am out and about... "in my home" is not possession.

    Keep and Bear

    BTW, the Constitution is not a positive document for rights. It only enumerated the select ones.  The Bill of Rights over rides states rights.
  • ScoutboatScoutboat Posts: 2,575 Captain
    Scoutboat said:
    Our Constution allows possession of firearms, as in your home.
    The tenth amendment left it up the states.
    If I am out and about... "in my home" is not possession.

    Keep and Bear

    BTW, the Constitution is not a positive document for rights. It only enumerated the select ones.  The Bill of Rights over rides states rights.
    No Big.
    The 10th amendment left it up to the States.
  • cadmancadman Posts: 43,640 AG
    Scoutboat said:
    Our Constution allows possession of firearms, as in your home.
    The tenth amendment left it up the states.
    If I am out and about... "in my home" is not possession.

    Keep and Bear

    BTW, the Constitution is not a positive document for rights. It only enumerated the select ones.  The Bill of Rights over rides states rights.
    The bill of rights originally had nothing to do with the states. It only pertained to the federal government. The supreme court expanded some parts to effect the states. Read Florida Bullfrog's post above, he explains it best. 

    Former Mini Mart Magnate

    I am just here for my amusement. 

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