Dog Problem

Fish HaidFish Haid Posts: 8,053 Admiral

I currently have 3 dogs.  Old (13) mix breed about 50 lbs, used to be much heavier,  Middle (6) mix breed about 70 lb, and Young (2) Plot hound 45? lbs.  All fixed females.  Youngest has been with me for about 9 months.

All stay outside.  I have always put out ample food for them to share, usually enough to last 3 days at a time, in two separate large pots.  They eat from either one, usually one pot gets empty when other is still 2/3 full.  Never had any issues, although any one of them might growl if another comes near while eating.  Pots are about 5 feet away from each other, and no issues with two eating simultaneously. 

I try to re-fill pots before they get empty, but sometimes they get empty anyhow.  In the last couple months, the young dog has gotten very defensive of the food, but only towards the old dog.  I've only noticed this happen when I am refilling the food pots.  Old dog is getting sort of feeble, and the young dog attacks the old one when she comes anywhere near while post are being filled.  I mean VISCOUSLY!  Not play fighting.  I've had to beat her with a shovel to get her to back off.  This has happened when other people were filling the bowl too.  I have never witnessed of heard any such aggression, except when I the food was actually being filled.

This hadn't happened for a month or so until yesterday.  Young got old down and was going for her throat.  Then, Middle joined in.  First time I have seen this.  I could not do much because I have a broken leg and could not get to them.  I yelled a bunch and finally managed to pick up a metal trash can an throw it at them, which made them back off.  A few minutes later, the young one walked over to the old one and started "kissing" her and licking the blood off her face.  Almost like she was apologizing.

Old dog is part blind, part deaf, very slow, but happy and manages to get around.  Tries to fight back.  Used to be top dog.  Keeps to herself and sleeps mostly now.  Not interested in playing with other dogs.  The other two are constantly chasing each other and play-fighting.

Not sure what to do.  Don't want to come home and find old dog torn to shreds.

I do think I will try to separate them while filling bowls from now on.  I have a separate gated side yard that they love to go into.

I should add that the old dog has lost a lot of weight in the last year.  I think her teeth hurt, as she doesn't devour rawhides instantly like she used to.  Not so interested in eating the dry food (even when the other dogs are not there).  I have been feeding her special soft (canned and leftovers) - separately inside the garage for a month, and she has gained some weight.

Not sure there are any easy answers here.  Sort of hoping the old one drops dead soon.  I'd hate to put her down while she still seems happy and can walk.

23895.gif
«13

Replies

  • Soda PopinskiSoda Popinski GrovelandPosts: 9,217 Admiral
    Our dog was 14.5 when we put him down and on the way to the vet he had his head out the window and he had a smile on his face, he was never depressed, and he never isolated himself like we had heard a dog will do when the end is near.  he just got to the point he couldn't do anything anymore like walk or poop or drink water but he was still a happy boy he smiled all the time.   They stay happy for you.    I can't tell you when the time is right to put your animal down but it's a hard thing to do.   They will hang on a LONG time just to make you happy and because they love you.   Good luck.   

    I would definitely separate them, sounds like the younger dog is trying to be the alpha, and you should be the alpha, not the dog.   The older dog cannot defend itself anymore.   
    People use statistics the way a drunk uses a street light, for support rather than illumination.
  • frankfrank Posts: 13,292 AG
    you beat the dog with a shovel to keep her from viciously attacking your oldest dog 
    seriously?
    No political signature
  • SaltygatorvetSaltygatorvet TallahasseePosts: 2,623 Captain
    edited July 2 #4
    frank said:
    you beat the dog with a shovel to keep her from viciously attacking your oldest dog 
    seriously?
    That’s not going to help. For god sakes , separate them while eating. It takes minimal effort, less effort than to type that long thread. I knew there was a reason I stayed away from dog threads
    You should have been here yesterday
  • frankfrank Posts: 13,292 AG
    frank said:
    you beat the dog with a shovel to keep her from viciously attacking your oldest dog 
    seriously?
    That’s not going to help. For god sakes , separate them while eating. It takes minimal effort, less effort than to type that long thread. I knew there was a reason I stayed away from dog threads
    I can only hope the op was pulling our legs to get a reaction 
    otherwise he should not own dogs 

    No political signature
  • Fish HaidFish Haid Posts: 8,053 Admiral
    And what would be the correct way to keep one dog from killing the other?  Yelling had no effect.  Just let them fight it out?  I learned years ago what happens when you try to do sperate them by hand.
    23895.gif
  • SaltygatorvetSaltygatorvet TallahasseePosts: 2,623 Captain
    edited July 2 #7
    Fish Haid said:
    And what would be the correct way to keep one dog from killing the other?  Yelling had no effect.  Just let them fight it out?  I learned years ago what happens when you try to do sperate them by hand.
    Separate them when eating, no brainer. You don’t want to hit them with a shovel. Use water from a hose, cattle prod or let them go. Then work on preventing fights, not breaking them up
    You should have been here yesterday
  • frankfrank Posts: 13,292 AG
    Spraying with a hose can work 
    BUT it shouldn't get to that point at all, when you first saw the dogs being aggressive over the food you should have separated them when feeding 
    the older dog is likely not getting food because the younger dog is hoarding 
    No political signature
  • GardawgGardawg Posts: 7,661 Admiral
    if you didn't have a broken leg !

    you could grab the hind legs and pick up the aggressor like a wheelbarrow.

    that takes away the power of the dog and they will release


    “Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves.

    Heres Tom with the Weather.”
  • ScoutboatScoutboat Posts: 1,922 Captain
    Fish Haid said:
    And what would be the correct way to keep one dog from killing the other?  Yelling had no effect.  Just let them fight it out?  I learned years ago what happens when you try to do sperate them by hand.
    Are these dogs used for hunting?
  • GrizGriz Palm Beach Gardens, FloridaPosts: 9,764 Admin
    I think he uses them for keeping track of his chains.
    The early bird may get the worm, but the Second Mouse gets the cheese. SW

    :Griz
  • mplspugmplspug Palmetto FloridaPosts: 7,143 Admiral
    My dog keeps running away every time I leave the gate open  Any suggestions guys?  Should I beat it with a shovel?

    Captain Todd Approves

  • mindyabinessmindyabiness Posts: 4,133 Captain
    mplspug said:
    My dog keeps running away every time I leave the gate open  Any suggestions guys?  Should I beat it with a shovel?
    No silly......CHAIN IT TO THE SHOVEL!
    Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon... No matter how good you are, the bird is going to crap on the board and strut around like it won anyway.
  • JohnnyBanditJohnnyBandit Posts: 8,290 Admiral
    Fish Haid said:

    I currently have 3 dogs.  Old (13) mix breed about 50 lbs, used to be much heavier,  Middle (6) mix breed about 70 lb, and Young (2) Plot hound 45? lbs.  All fixed females.  Youngest has been with me for about 9 months.

    All stay outside.  I have always put out ample food for them to share, usually enough to last 3 days at a time, in two separate large pots.  They eat from either one, usually one pot gets empty when other is still 2/3 full.  Never had any issues, although any one of them might growl if another comes near while eating.  Pots are about 5 feet away from each other, and no issues with two eating simultaneously. 

    I try to re-fill pots before they get empty, but sometimes they get empty anyhow.  In the last couple months, the young dog has gotten very defensive of the food, but only towards the old dog.  I've only noticed this happen when I am refilling the food pots.  Old dog is getting sort of feeble, and the young dog attacks the old one when she comes anywhere near while post are being filled.  I mean VISCOUSLY!  Not play fighting.  I've had to beat her with a shovel to get her to back off.  This has happened when other people were filling the bowl too.  I have never witnessed of heard any such aggression, except when I the food was actually being filled.

    This hadn't happened for a month or so until yesterday.  Young got old down and was going for her throat.  Then, Middle joined in.  First time I have seen this.  I could not do much because I have a broken leg and could not get to them.  I yelled a bunch and finally managed to pick up a metal trash can an throw it at them, which made them back off.  A few minutes later, the young one walked over to the old one and started "kissing" her and licking the blood off her face.  Almost like she was apologizing.

    Old dog is part blind, part deaf, very slow, but happy and manages to get around.  Tries to fight back.  Used to be top dog.  Keeps to herself and sleeps mostly now.  Not interested in playing with other dogs.  The other two are constantly chasing each other and play-fighting.

    Not sure what to do.  Don't want to come home and find old dog torn to shreds.

    I do think I will try to separate them while filling bowls from now on.  I have a separate gated side yard that they love to go into.

    I should add that the old dog has lost a lot of weight in the last year.  I think her teeth hurt, as she doesn't devour rawhides instantly like she used to.  Not so interested in eating the dry food (even when the other dogs are not there).  I have been feeding her special soft (canned and leftovers) - separately inside the garage for a month, and she has gained some weight.

    Not sure there are any easy answers here.  Sort of hoping the old one drops dead soon.  I'd hate to put her down while she still seems happy and can walk.



    The answers are very simple:

    1) Dogs are territorial Carnivores. Food is a resource and must be protected.

    2) Young dog has decided the resource must be protected.

    3) Young Dog is singling out the old dog  Because the young dog knows it can take the old dog.

    4) You said the old dog used to be much heavier.  In all likelihood, this has been going on much longer than you think. You noticed when it became physical. It did not start there. There were visual signals the dogs were giving to each other long before it became violent.

    This is what you need to do. Stop the free feeding. NOW!
    Feed all three dogs in separate locations preferably out of sight of each other.
    All the dogs should have their own space and bowl to eat from. They should not have to watch their back to get a meal.

    IF you don't switch, it will get worse. One of the dogs is going to be hurt badly. Or dead.

    Hopefully you can throttle back the conflict by feeding them separately. But you may not be able to.

    And personally, I would keep them separate when I am not around. Dogs can get along for years until that  "One Day...."  I am sure SaltyGatorVet has stitched up dogs that have gotten along for years until they did not.
  • FinfinderFinfinder Posts: 9,770 Admiral
    Maybe if you leave them outside in his heat long enough you won't have to worry about feeding any of them.   :/
  • Fish HaidFish Haid Posts: 8,053 Admiral
    Well, new development today, and I know the answer is to get rid of the young dog.

    I came home, went to back door, and called dogs.  They were off sleeping somewhere I suppose.  Young dog came first.  I petted it and asked where her sister were.  Called the other dogs.  Middle dog shows up next and young one immediately jumps on it in ferocious manner.  Old dog was nowhere near.  They were really going at it,.  Very scary!  I tried to get out the door and fell flat on my face, and banged my broken leg hard..  Old dog showed up about then and I put it inside the garage.

    Fight lasted several minutes.  Young dog clearly the aggressor, even after middle dog tried to back off, and kept attacking when it finally got free (young one had it by scruff of neck shaking vigorously).  Five minutes later, they are friends again.  Young dog was licking the middle dog's wounds.  Both have bloody ears, not gushing or anything though.  Haven't been able to examine them closely yet.

    Taking  young one to pound first thing in morning.  Love her.  Awesome dog, but can't put up with this crap, or risk her freaking out on another animal or kid someday.

    This had nothing to do with food.  If anything, it was jealously about my attention.
    23895.gif
  • JohnnyBanditJohnnyBandit Posts: 8,290 Admiral
    Fish Haid said:
    Well, new development today, and I know the answer is to get rid of the young dog.

    I came home, went to back door, and called dogs.  They were off sleeping somewhere I suppose.  Young dog came first.  I petted it and asked where her sister were.  Called the other dogs.  Middle dog shows up next and young one immediately jumps on it in ferocious manner.  Old dog was nowhere near.  They were really going at it,.  Very scary!  I tried to get out the door and fell flat on my face, and banged my broken leg hard..  Old dog showed up about then and I put it inside the garage.

    Fight lasted several minutes.  Young dog clearly the aggressor, even after middle dog tried to back off, and kept attacking when it finally got free (young one had it by scruff of neck shaking vigorously).  Five minutes later, they are friends again.  Young dog was licking the middle dog's wounds.  Both have bloody ears, not gushing or anything though.  Haven't been able to examine them closely yet.

    Taking  young one to pound first thing in morning.  Love her.  Awesome dog, but can't put up with this crap, or risk her freaking out on another animal or kid someday.

    This had nothing to do with food.  If anything, it was jealously about my attention.
    It happened for the same reason.... Resource guarding.... You are a resource..... Same as food.. .
  • Fish HaidFish Haid Posts: 8,053 Admiral
    JB - Yes, I figured that (guarding me, not the food).  Still, I think only solution is to get rid of the young one.  I think she is unpredictable.  I've had about 8 dogs in my adult life, but this is the only one I have seen get so scary aggressive (now on multiple occasions and getting worse).

    Also, about the weight loss - old dog won't eat the dry food anymore.  Even when she is kept separate in the garage.  I thought about what you said before (about other dog keeping her away from food), but even though the young dog attacks her, the old dog won't give up or back down.  Old dog used to devour a rawhide in less than a minute.  Now, it takes her hours.  I figure her teeth hurt.

    Anyhow, I also now realize that all the episodes happened when either me or my kid was there.  Never heard or seen any evidence of a fight when there was no human around (like hearing them fight when I'm in house, or at night).

    She will make someone a nice pet and great watchdog in a one-dog family.  Beautiful muscular dog.  High energy, very intelligent and affectionate (with humans and other dogs) - except for this problem.

    So, I will get rid of young one.  Wait for old one to die, then get a puppy to keep middle dog occupied.  Middle dog is very mellow, and let young dog become the boss even though she is bigger and stronger.  I am bummed that middle dog is losing her playmate.
    23895.gif
  • Fish HaidFish Haid Posts: 8,053 Admiral
    edited July 3 #19
    I'm sure this is triggered to some extent by my recent injury which has kept me from going into back yard as often as I normally do.

    Also, my immediate neighbor has a 5 year old girl who come over and sticks her arm through the fence and pets the dogs (despite my repeated warning to her and her mother to NOT let her do this).  Sometimes giving them food.  Tragedy waiting to happen.

    Friend down the street with 7 dogs (in the house, including Rotweilers) has two that will fight.  He uses a cattle prod to break them up.

    Also, just checked paperwork.  Middle dog is actually 3.5 , not 6 years old.
    23895.gif
  • JohnnyBanditJohnnyBandit Posts: 8,290 Admiral
    Fish Haid said:
    JB - Yes, I figured that (guarding me, not the food).  Still, I think only solution is to get rid of the young one.  I think she is unpredictable.  I've had about 8 dogs in my adult life, but this is the only one I have seen get so scary aggressive (now on multiple occasions and getting worse).

    Also, about the weight loss - old dog won't eat the dry food anymore.  Even when she is kept separate in the garage.  I thought about what you said before (about other dog keeping her away from food), but even though the young dog attacks her, the old dog won't give up or back down.  Old dog used to devour a rawhide in less than a minute.  Now, it takes her hours.  I figure her teeth hurt.

    Anyhow, I also now realize that all the episodes happened when either me or my kid was there.  Never heard or seen any evidence of a fight when there was no human around (like hearing them fight when I'm in house, or at night).

    She will make someone a nice pet and great watchdog in a one-dog family.  Beautiful muscular dog.  High energy, very intelligent and affectionate (with humans and other dogs) - except for this problem.

    So, I will get rid of young one.  Wait for old one to die, then get a puppy to keep middle dog occupied.  Middle dog is very mellow, and let young dog become the boss even though she is bigger and stronger.  I am bummed that middle dog is losing her playmate.
    I am not faulting your decision.....

    It can be worked out. But it takes a lot of experience and time to pull it off. And sometimes in the end, all you can do is separate the dogs....

    You have an old dog and a kid. Neither needs to deal with that.
  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,295 AG
    I have 2 Akitas,,, they get along fairly well but no way would I feed them together. It is natural for dogs to develop a pecking order and no amount of beating or threatening will prevent  that.
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • Fish HaidFish Haid Posts: 8,053 Admiral
    I've had 2 or 3 dogs at a time for about 20 years and never experienced this type of aggression.  Keeping them separated is not practical for me, and would defeat the purpose of me having more than one, which is that they have a playmate.  This morning, I was actually considering just getting rid of the old one, but when she attacked the middle one  (no food involved), it opened my eyes.  Especially since the middle one is very passive - probably the most mellow one I've ever had.  After what I saw today, I am honestly afraid the young one could get pissed at me one day. 

    All three acting weird tonight.
    23895.gif
  • mplspugmplspug Palmetto FloridaPosts: 7,143 Admiral
    Yes, bring it to the pound so it can become someone else's problem.

    Captain Todd Approves

  • frankfrank Posts: 13,292 AG
    mplspug said:
    Yes, bring it to the pound so it can become someone else's problem.
    We adopted all but one of our dogs from shelters/rescue 
    none spend their lives outside or have to fight for their meals
    just saying
    No political signature
  • Fish HaidFish Haid Posts: 8,053 Admiral
    mplspug said:
    Yes, bring it to the pound so it can become someone else's problem.
     I know what you mean.  I'll try to get them to put her down, but we live in a snowflake liberal "no-kill" county.  I've put down my own dogs in the past, but I'd probably get arrested nowadays.  Also, would be hard for me to move the body and dig a hole with broke leg.

    My previous 3 dogs came from the pound - all were awesome.  This one was from CraigList for free.

    Goodbye Plotty - I'll miss you!
    23895.gif
  • Fish HaidFish Haid Posts: 8,053 Admiral
    frank said:
    mplspug said:
    Yes, bring it to the pound so it can become someone else's problem.
    We adopted all but one of our dogs from shelters/rescue 
    none spend their lives outside or have to fight for their meals
    just saying
    LOL!  Do you also advocate keeping animals in zoos rather than roaming free?

    I guess she will likely be spending time cooped up inside some snowflake's apartment  if shed ever gets adopted.  Or, maybe chained to some rednecks mobile home.  Sorry I let her have a 1-acre fenced shady yard to run around in all day. 
    23895.gif
  • frankfrank Posts: 13,292 AG
    wow, sounds like she had an idyllic life 
    you know apart from being beaten with a shovel or wondering where her next meal is coming from 
    yeah she definitely deserves to die for her transgressions, not really 
    it's too bad you're not giving up the other two 
    No political signature
  • ScoutboatScoutboat Posts: 1,922 Captain
    Fish Haid said:
    mplspug said:
    Yes, bring it to the pound so it can become someone else's problem.
     I know what you mean.  I'll try to get them to put her down, but we live in a snowflake liberal "no-kill" county.  I've put down my own dogs in the past, but I'd probably get arrested nowadays.  Also, would be hard for me to move the body and dig a hole with broke leg.

    My previous 3 dogs came from the pound - all were awesome.  This one was from CraigList for free.

    Goodbye Plotty - I'll miss you!
    I'm gonna get flamed for saying this.
    Dogs are one of two things.
    Either hunting dogs or pets.
    I raised hounds for years, used them to chase rabbits and kept then in kennels with a fifty foot cable so that the dogs could get some excersize.
    i never left those dogs unattended.
    Other dogs are pets, kept inside for companionship.
    Why in the world would you keep those dogs chained up twenty four seven for years?
    I can appreciate your disability, but if you can't take proper care of them, why have them?
    Even though they were free.
    Jim
  • mindyabinessmindyabiness Posts: 4,133 Captain
    edited July 3 #29
    "Proper care".....a subjective term


    I've seen hundreds of dogs that were kept alive for 9 months just so they would hunt the next three. Kept in 4x5 cages or pens, sitting for days next to or on top of their own waste. They get the cheapest Chinese dog food and never get a bath...ever.
    Come toughening season in September, they are let out to do what they were bred to do. If they didn't hunt they were quickly dispatched.
     Skinny, stinky, nasty, infested dogs, left to run or get shot. I've seen them sit in a dog box for days with no food, I've seen them starve to death because their owners (name and phone number on the collar) would not come and get them.
    Used to bother me...doesn't any more. I think things like that get worked out and I don't have to worry about it. I take real good care of my dogs (by anybody's standards) and that's what makes me happy.
    I feel a dogs ability, health, attitude and demeanor are a reflection on and of myself.
    When I lose a dog, it really hurts.... always has.
    Not everyone is like that. Some may keep a dog alive because if they didn't the dog would die... and alive is better then dead....right? Is it?
    1.2 million dogs are euthanized every year in this country...give or take a few hundred thousand.
    Think about it..


    Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon... No matter how good you are, the bird is going to crap on the board and strut around like it won anyway.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 11,254 AG
    edited July 3 #30
    The old dog probably appreciates the fact that you live in liberal snowflake county, otherwise it might have been dead and you would have still had a problem young dog along with a guilty conscience.  ;)

    That dig aside, I truly am sorry to hear of your situation.  Decisions about the future of pets' lives are extremely difficult.
  • Fish HaidFish Haid Posts: 8,053 Admiral
    Scoutboat - I never chain my dogs or tie them up, or put them in little crates.  I have four acres, and they have free range of one acre 24/7, and access to a 2nd acre about 25% of the time.  The have a nice doghouse (inside the barn), but prefer to sleep in a hole under my motorhome.  They would be miserable inside the house.  Except the old one is now spoiled from being fed privately inside the garage.  They are happy and healthy.  Rarely get sick.  In fact, I've only had to take one to vet for illness in 10 years - and that was terminal spleen cancer that appeared suddenly.  They get wormed and all normal vaccinations administered by me.  They have access to food and water 24/7.

    ANYHOW---  I took her to the county pound today, and they said they are full, and I have to make an appointment to give-up a dog voluntarily.  And that appointment would be a few weeks away minimum.  Also, that no other place in the county takes in dogs volunteered by owners.  Also, it is unlawful to euthanize your own dog in a humane manner.  And they will only euthanize a dog with a vet's certification that it is very sick.

    Really a nice dog - other than this recent aggression problem.  Would make a great pet for a one-dog family with large yard.   I will post a pic if I remember.
    23895.gif
«13
Sign In or Register to comment.