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Bad Ideas Never Die in Florida

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  • wayviswayvis Posts: 219 Deckhand
    How will tags help the S Fl deer herd?
    I here there are no deer in south fl.; so why would you need tags?:)
  • gladesmangladesman Posts: 1,362 Officer
    I just finished reading “swamp screamer” and I swear we are only feeding panthers. I feel a lil tinfoil hat lately but dang it just seems we’re getting it pretty short sided.

    Every hunter in Fla should read Swamp Screamer by Charles Fergus especially pgs 117 - 120 to see the fraud on full display from FWCs Melody Roelke and  and a geneticist Stephen Obrian - they knew the cat was hybridized at the start of the panther program and kept their mouths shut to get the $$$.
  • gladesmangladesman Posts: 1,362 Officer
    spangler said:
    N. Cook said:
    The proposed bag limit...3 bucks/2 does...is a generous one. 
    You've got to be kidding me right?  Please for the love of G don't say compared to other states....      All this time, 2 a day has been working fine!  Keep in mind for most public land hunters the proposed limit = 3 deer a year.  Period.
    Not only does this punish good hunters from reward, it punishes them in the hunt.  You get your 3 during archery and then you are done for the season.  Booooo!
    F'n socialist commies!!!!!
    Seriously, have there EVER been more deer in the state?  I'm not kidding.  I never saw deer on the interstate as a kid like I do now.  Herds of them.  We're gonna need urban hunts before you know it.  Ridiculous.
    This country and this state are doomed.
    I'm not even sure it's worth the fight anymore.  We've passed the tipping point everyone's been frantically talking about and trying to get yall to wake up.  FUUUUUUuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuccccckkkkkkkkkkk........... bohica


    You're catching on quick spangler.  :)
  • gritsnhuntin1gritsnhuntin1 Posts: 1,181 Officer
    gladesman said:
    I just finished reading “swamp screamer” and I swear we are only feeding panthers. I feel a lil tinfoil hat lately but dang it just seems we’re getting it pretty short sided.

    Every hunter in Fla should read Swamp Screamer by Charles Fergus especially pgs 117 - 120 to see the fraud on full display from FWCs Melody Roelke and  and a geneticist Stephen Obrian - they knew the cat was hybridized at the start of the panther program and kept their mouths shut to get the $$$.
    Kinda pissed me off after reading it. The whole program is a sham. Hell, think about how many are reported behind killed every year by cars. If there were really so few of them they would have been gone a long time ago. The common jong q public type don’t seem to understand that for some reason. It seems to me that “fl panthers “ were just an isolated group of cougars who got cut of from the rest of the population because of man. We killed them all off and they hid out in Fl swamps much like the indians and crackers. 
  • gladesmangladesman Posts: 1,362 Officer
    edited December 2018 #366
    spangler said:

    Draft Rule – Deer Management. Staff will present draft rule amendments to establish statewide annual bag limits for deer, harvest reporting requirements, additional antlerless deer permit program requirements, and additional youth hunting opportunities intended to accomplish approved Deer Management Strategic Plan outcomes, agency R3 objectives, and deer hunter preferences. Detailed proposed rule language is provided in background documents for this item.
    Summary Memo | Presentation | 68A-12.003 | 68A-12.004 | 68A-13.004

    BOHICA....

    Need help (hint bullfrog) understanding rule proposal 68A-12.003(2) - (2) pertaining to deer tag/report in the rule text.

    Anything bold below is by me.

    Please tell me my interpretation of specified sections of rule 68A-12.003 is correct or incorrect.

    My interpretation is in regular text -  italics are pasted here directly from the rule on the agenda 68A-12.003:

    (2)a   from rule text - (a) Positive evidence of sex identification, including the head with any antler or antlers, shall remain on harvested deer for the duration that such deer is kept in the field or camp or is en route to the domicile of its possessor or until such deer has been cooked or stored at the domicile of its possessor.

    - so now must  one who packs meat out after a kill must NOW leave whole skull intact with antlers (weight 5 of 7 lbs or more) - and NO longer merely saw skull cap off (1 or 2 lbs.?

    (2)b from rule text - (b) Deer may be dismembered and/or transferred to another person in the field or camp but each deer, or portions and parts thereof, shall have written information attached thereto containing the first and last name and address of the person who harvested it; the date of harvest; the county or, if applicable, name of public hunting area where harvested; and the sex, and shall be readily traceable to the portion or portions of the animal bearing the sex identification.

    - so now after filling out harvest log before moving dead deer and boning it out one must additionally fill out all this information on every package of meat being transported - often 5 or 6 zip lock bags? More time filling out forms than boning out deer - oh all this as a  storm or dark is approaching, cold wet weather, hot weather out in sun :) - Right?

    (2)c2 from rule text - 2. - Prior to moving a deer from the point of harvest, the person that harvested the deer shall record in a harvest log: the first and last name of the person who harvested it; the date of harvest; the county or, if applicable name of public hunting area where harvested; and the sex.

    - so now  one has the honor of filling in the harvest/kill report - out of order but I am going down the rule text as presented.

    (2)c3 from rule text - 3. An FWC-issued customer number is required for reporting harvested deer.

    - so now the big Jack in the Box surprise of having to go to FWC for some more bureaucratic red tape paperwork that has never been mentioned prior to this rules debut for people to comment on until this point in time. How many hoops will over 65 exempt hunters have to go through to acquire this additional piece of paper or cyber bytes - zero details for the public to comment upon - so much for transparency - as usual hunters forced by FWC buy a pig in a poke?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_in_a_poke   Could this have been in the back of Chuck E's mind as he advocated for exempt hunters to have to pay a fee so FWC can get some of the  Fed's Pittman Roberts dollars?

    Why fill out  first and last names as per (2)c2 if a hunter id# is available - more busy work for FWC's hunters/customers or am I wrong?

    (2)c4 from the rule text - 4. The harvest reporting system will provide a confirmation number once harvest is reported and the confirmation number shall be immediately recorded in the harvest log of the person that harvested the deer.

    - so  now another item to fill out on harvest log

    (2)c5 from rule text - 5. Once a harvested deer is reported through the Commission’s harvest reporting system, all deer, or parts thereof, shall have written information attached thereto containing the information recorded in the harvest log and the harvest reporting confirmation number prior to being transferred from the person who harvested it to another party.

    - so now one has to somewhat duplicate what was filled out on meat packages of boned out deer what was filled out for (2)b above -

    This rule doesn't look to work well for those on foot who bone deer for for long hauls to their vehicle or campsite on hot humid days in So Fla.

    Any help for me to understand better will be appreciated.


  • Florida BullfrogFlorida Bullfrog Posts: 4,847 Captain
    gladesman said:
    spangler said:

    Draft Rule – Deer Management. Staff will present draft rule amendments to establish statewide annual bag limits for deer, harvest reporting requirements, additional antlerless deer permit program requirements, and additional youth hunting opportunities intended to accomplish approved Deer Management Strategic Plan outcomes, agency R3 objectives, and deer hunter preferences. Detailed proposed rule language is provided in background documents for this item.
    Summary Memo | Presentation | 68A-12.003 | 68A-12.004 | 68A-13.004

    BOHICA....

    Need help (hint bullfrog) understanding rule proposal 68A-12.003(2) - (2) pertaining to deer tag/report in the rule text.

    Anything bold below is by me.

    Please tell me my interpretation of specified sections of rule 68A-12.003 is correct or incorrect.

    My interpretation is in regular text -  italics are pasted here directly from the rule on the agenda 68A-12.003:

    (2)a   from rule text - (a) Positive evidence of sex identification, including the head with any antler or antlers, shall remain on harvested deer for the duration that such deer is kept in the field or camp or is en route to the domicile of its possessor or until such deer has been cooked or stored at the domicile of its possessor.

    - so now must  one who packs meat out after a kill must NOW leave whole skull intact with antlers (weight 5 of 7 lbs or more) - and NO longer merely saw skull cap off (1 or 2 lbs.?

    (2)b from rule text - (b) Deer may be dismembered and/or transferred to another person in the field or camp but each deer, or portions and parts thereof, shall have written information attached thereto containing the first and last name and address of the person who harvested it; the date of harvest; the county or, if applicable, name of public hunting area where harvested; and the sex, and shall be readily traceable to the portion or portions of the animal bearing the sex identification.

    - so now after filling out harvest log before moving dead deer and boning it out one must additionally fill out all this information on every package of meat being transported - often 5 or 6 zip lock bags? More time filling out forms than boning out deer - oh all this as a  storm or dark is approaching, cold wet weather, hot weather out in sun :) - Right?

    (2)c2 from rule text - 2. - Prior to moving a deer from the point of harvest, the person that harvested the deer shall record in a harvest log: the first and last name of the person who harvested it; the date of harvest; the county or, if applicable name of public hunting area where harvested; and the sex.

    - so now  one has the honor of filling in the harvest/kill report - out of order but I am going down the rule text as presented.

    (2)c3 from rule text - 3. An FWC-issued customer number is required for reporting harvested deer.

    - so now the big Jack in the Box surprise of having to go to FWC for some more bureaucratic red tape paperwork that has never been mentioned prior to this rules debut for people to comment on until this point in time. How many hoops will over 65 exempt hunters have to go through to acquire this additional piece of paper or cyber bytes - zero details for the public to comment upon - so much for transparency - as usual hunters forced by FWC buy a pig in a poke?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_in_a_poke   Could this have been in the back of Chuck E's mind as he advocated for exempt hunters to have to pay a fee so FWC can get some of the  Fed's Pittman Roberts dollars?

    Why fill out  first and last names as per (2)c2 if a hunter id# is available - more busy work for FWC's hunters/customers or am I wrong?

    (2)c4 from the rule text - 4. The harvest reporting system will provide a confirmation number once harvest is reported and the confirmation number shall be immediately recorded in the harvest log of the person that harvested the deer.

    - so  now another item to fill out on harvest log

    (2)c5 from rule text - 5. Once a harvested deer is reported through the Commission’s harvest reporting system, all deer, or parts thereof, shall have written information attached thereto containing the information recorded in the harvest log and the harvest reporting confirmation number prior to being transferred from the person who harvested it to another party.

    - so now one has to somewhat duplicate what was filled out on meat packages of boned out deer what was filled out for (2)b above -

    This rule doesn't look to work well for those on foot who bone deer for for long hauls to their vehicle or campsite on hot humid days in So Fla.

    Any help for me to understand better will be appreciated.


    There's a lot I don't understand about the proposed requirements and will have to parse thru line by line.

    But I'm going ahead and responding now as to one point.... the law already requires that you leave the head on and that all the meat be tagged and labeled after cleaning in camp. Here's the current rule:

    "(2) Positive evidence of sex identification, including the head, shall remain on deer taken or killed within the state and on all turkey taken during any gobbler season when taking of turkey hens is prohibited so long as such deer or turkey is kept in camp or forest or is en route to the domicile of its possessor or until such deer or turkey has been cooked or stored at the domicile of its possessor.

    (3) Deer and turkey may be dismembered in the field or camp but each portion shall have a tag affixed to it identifying the name, address, FWC Recreational Licensing Issuance Services Customer ID number (if a hunting license is required) of the person who killed it, the date and location at which it was taken, and shall be readily traceable to the portion of the animal bearing the sex identification."

    So subsection 2 is basically unchanged. Its already illegal for you to remove a deer's head in the field.

    Every time we clean a deer in camp and don't label the individual parts with an affixed tag that has our name, address, hunting license number, and date and location of kill, we're breaking the law. I've pointed this out before in other discussions. I've never heard of this rule being enforced in the past. But where now it is going to be connected to a bag limit, it no doubt will be. 
     
    Best I can tell, the tagging of parts has been law since at least 2015. 
  • Florida BullfrogFlorida Bullfrog Posts: 4,847 Captain
    edited December 2018 #368
    The complication is one reason I believe this isn't going to work from an enforcement standpoint. Juries are going to sympathize with a hunter who acts confused by it all, even if said hunter is really a poacher who knows good and well what they should and shouldn't do. Its a lot to take in. I've read it a few times and its not all clear to me. I'll have to literally draw it out to understand it like a math problem.

    Tags would be so much easier. Just tag the deer in the field when its on the ground. Then report it in before you clean it by calling it in or going on a website. Totally ditch the paper log. 2 steps. Step 1. Tag. Step 2. Report. The true enforcement mechanism will be the tag. A tag that can't be reused once it goes in a deer's leg. The cheater will have to try to cheat by not tagging the deer and hoping not to be checked either in the field, in the back of the truck, or at the cleaning rack. In this taggless system, violations will have to be proven via the log or lack thereof, and it has to be proof beyond a reasonable doubt. A confusing system has reasonable doubt built into it. 
  • wayviswayvis Posts: 219 Deckhand
    I did speak to an experienced wildlife officer today on a couple of cases I'm about to start working for him, and he does think that a log will be enforceable in the field, so long as its something the hunter can't just print out every time they go hunting. All bets are off if the log is something that can just be created anew from hunt to hunt. He would prefer physical tags for enforcement and simplicity purposes. What he would expect would be one log you must keep with you all season, and he should be able to reference your prior kills in that log whenever he checks you. But that may not be how the regulation works. It seems unclear. Possibly because it is a work in progress. 

    I'm not clear whether the log is supposed to be the same log you carry out with you every time you go afield that's going be printed from an FWC source, or whether the log is any piece of paper you want it to be so long as you're writing down your kill for that particular hunt. 
    I totally agree that the FWC should issue the harvest log, but as I said they don't want to spend the money to do so. Maybe if they get enough kickback on this they will change. As you said some of this is a work in progress.

    Also they are planning on having a cell phone app. This is from FWC site....."Hunters would be required to report their own harvest within 24 hours of harvest AND prior to transferring possession of the harvested deer. After using their telephone or any internet connection to report, hunters would receive a confirmation number to record on a paper harvest log (if used) or to be saved automatically on their smart phone."

    Here's the link to the Presentation that FWC staff will be presenting to commissioners at their next meeting.
    http://myfwc.com/media/4520668/12B-ProposedDeerManagementRules.pdf
  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 2,155 Captain
    Labeling the meat has been a requirement for quite a number of years.  Couldn't say when it became a regulation. I recall seeing it enforced about a dozen years ago and it wasn't new at the time.
  • bgeorgebgeorge Posts: 1,652 Captain
    spangler said:
    Listen, I'm a little bitter about the doe thing (especially when all you hear is they are better eating).  Doe harvest, during archery, on public land is VERY limited.  I've got one wma within 3 hours from me that allows doe during archery.  But I get it, how can they let the average citizen a chance when all those private property owners that surround the wma want does too.  Serve the privileged first and always.



    That is why I try to promote 1 State management plan per DMU.  If we are going to due rules based more on public preference and not just what is sustainable then all people should have to deal with the same preference.  What will end up is the public hunter may get a little more and the private land people may loose a little.  In N Florida where there is healthy populations they get more days of doe access.  If you want more access promote the 1 management plan per DMU 
    The man who moves a mountain begins by carrying away small stones. Hopefully the next man is not dropping his stones on the mountain you are trying to move.
  • wayviswayvis Posts: 219 Deckhand
    bgeorge said:
    spangler said:
    Listen, I'm a little bitter about the doe thing (especially when all you hear is they are better eating).  Doe harvest, during archery, on public land is VERY limited.  I've got one wma within 3 hours from me that allows doe during archery.  But I get it, how can they let the average citizen a chance when all those private property owners that surround the wma want does too.  Serve the privileged first and always.



    That is why I try to promote 1 State management plan per DMU.  If we are going to due rules based more on public preference and not just what is sustainable then all people should have to deal with the same preference.  What will end up is the public hunter may get a little more and the private land people may loose a little.  In N Florida where there is healthy populations they get more days of doe access.  If you want more access promote the 1 management plan per DMU 
    First doe hunting on WMA's during archery is not very limited. There are many WMA's across the state that allow doe harvest and many require no quota permit.
    As far as does being better to eat than bucks that's just bs, if you compare by age and care for the meat the right way after harvesting there is very little if any difference. 

    One management plan that covers private lands and WMA's will never work. DMU's are too big to have just one management plan to cover private lands and WMA's. FWC looks at WMA's like small DMU's so it can be managed on a more local level by it particular habitat and deer population. This is no different than many private clubs managing their clubs on a more restrictive level in order to increase deep population or antler size.
  • bgeorgebgeorge Posts: 1,652 Captain
    Most DMU's are not that big for overall management goals to be consistent.  If some want to hold to higher standards on their land so be it.  I would agree when the State was divided in 3-4 areas that there was much dependency in habitat and populations.  Now the State is divided in 12 DMU's
    The man who moves a mountain begins by carrying away small stones. Hopefully the next man is not dropping his stones on the mountain you are trying to move.
  • wayviswayvis Posts: 219 Deckhand
    bgeorge said:
    Most DMU's are not that big for overall management goals to be consistent.  If some want to hold to higher standards on their land so be it.  I would agree when the State was divided in 3-4 areas that there was much dependency in habitat and populations.  Now the State is divided in 12 DMU's
    So how would you handle WMA's that have no quota's. Allowing doe harvest on these WMA's as you would private lands would not end up well.
  • bgeorgebgeorge Posts: 1,652 Captain
    wayvis said:
    bgeorge said:
    Most DMU's are not that big for overall management goals to be consistent.  If some want to hold to higher standards on their land so be it.  I would agree when the State was divided in 3-4 areas that there was much dependency in habitat and populations.  Now the State is divided in 12 DMU's
    So how would you handle WMA's that have no quota's. Allowing doe harvest on these WMA's as you would private lands would not end up well.
    I would set the allowable harvest based upon the same standards within a DMU.  The difference would be how the access would be distributed.  Two options are the the inclusion in doe permit drawings that would give a hunter flexibility on when they could go or if there is a check station to put a cap on the # harvested and cut it off when met.  The fact that way to many areas have 0 access to the general public when adjoining property is issued permits at a generous rate is not right.  It is not managing the resource in "Public Trust" for all of the stakeholders.
    The man who moves a mountain begins by carrying away small stones. Hopefully the next man is not dropping his stones on the mountain you are trying to move.
  • wayviswayvis Posts: 219 Deckhand
    bgeorge said:
    wayvis said:
    bgeorge said:
    Most DMU's are not that big for overall management goals to be consistent.  If some want to hold to higher standards on their land so be it.  I would agree when the State was divided in 3-4 areas that there was much dependency in habitat and populations.  Now the State is divided in 12 DMU's
    So how would you handle WMA's that have no quota's. Allowing doe harvest on these WMA's as you would private lands would not end up well.
    I would set the allowable harvest based upon the same standards within a DMU.  The difference would be how the access would be distributed.  Two options are the the inclusion in doe permit drawings that would give a hunter flexibility on when they could go or if there is a check station to put a cap on the # harvested and cut it off when met.  The fact that way to many areas have 0 access to the general public when adjoining property is issued permits at a generous rate is not right.  It is not managing the resource in "Public Trust" for all of the stakeholders.
    So does this include doe harvest during archery season?
  • N. CookN. Cook Posts: 2,308 Captain
    There is a lot of support for the "hard tag", but also resistance to having to keep up with tags and how they are distributed...the "log" is a way to allow the moving of the deer with a record on hand immediately....Please note, the use of the app on the cell phone while in the field also records the deer at the point of kill...and, If you are not in a cell...will automatically send the report when you do enter a cell...If everyone had a cell phone with the app, there would be no need for any "paper trail"....and that will probably be the way of the future...
  • spanglerspangler Posts: 2,799 Captain
    Yep.. mandated to carry phone at all times.......
    There will never be a really free and enlightened state until the state comes to recognize the individual as a higher and independent power, from which all its own power and authority are derived.
  • spanglerspangler Posts: 2,799 Captain
    N. Cook said:
    Please note, the use of the app on the cell phone while in the field also records the deer at the point of kill...and, If you are not in a cell...will automatically send the report when you do enter a cell...If everyone had a cell phone with the app, there would be no need for any "paper trail"....and that will probably be the way of the future...
    NO THANK YOU!!!!
    There will never be a really free and enlightened state until the state comes to recognize the individual as a higher and independent power, from which all its own power and authority are derived.
  • wayviswayvis Posts: 219 Deckhand
    spangler said:
    Yep.. mandated to carry phone at all times.......
    This will not happened. But the app is a convenient way for many hunters to report.
  • ajrickettsajricketts Posts: 97 Greenhorn
    The complication is one reason I believe this isn't going to work from an enforcement standpoint. Juries are going to sympathize with a hunter who acts confused by it all, even if said hunter is really a poacher who knows good and well what they should and shouldn't do. Its a lot to take in. I've read it a few times and its not all clear to me. I'll have to literally draw it out to understand it like a math problem.

    Tags would be so much easier. Just tag the deer in the field when its on the ground. Then report it in before you clean it by calling it in or going on a website. Totally ditch the paper log. 2 steps. Step 1. Tag. Step 2. Report. The true enforcement mechanism will be the tag. A tag that can't be reused once it goes in a deer's leg. The cheater will have to try to cheat by not tagging the deer and hoping not to be checked either in the field, in the back of the truck, or at the cleaning rack. In this taggless system, violations will have to be proven via the log or lack thereof, and it has to be proof beyond a reasonable doubt. A confusing system has reasonable doubt built into it. 
    This part I don't really like. Many WMA's don't have solid cell reception and, if I'm taking a deer out whole (dragging, sled, whatever) I'm not inclined to bring out the guts. I'd prefer to leave that +/- 30% of total weight in the woods. 
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 8,797 Admiral
    Why have other states gone from hard tags to no tags? Will Fl repeat the same mistakes other states have?

    Now we need to downoad a proposed APP, no thanks dont need another tracking device attached to my phone.

    Start managing the habitat then we can talk about more ways to burden the hunter.
  • Florida BullfrogFlorida Bullfrog Posts: 4,847 Captain
    The complication is one reason I believe this isn't going to work from an enforcement standpoint. Juries are going to sympathize with a hunter who acts confused by it all, even if said hunter is really a poacher who knows good and well what they should and shouldn't do. Its a lot to take in. I've read it a few times and its not all clear to me. I'll have to literally draw it out to understand it like a math problem.

    Tags would be so much easier. Just tag the deer in the field when its on the ground. Then report it in before you clean it by calling it in or going on a website. Totally ditch the paper log. 2 steps. Step 1. Tag. Step 2. Report. The true enforcement mechanism will be the tag. A tag that can't be reused once it goes in a deer's leg. The cheater will have to try to cheat by not tagging the deer and hoping not to be checked either in the field, in the back of the truck, or at the cleaning rack. In this taggless system, violations will have to be proven via the log or lack thereof, and it has to be proof beyond a reasonable doubt. A confusing system has reasonable doubt built into it. 
    This part I don't really like. Many WMA's don't have solid cell reception and, if I'm taking a deer out whole (dragging, sled, whatever) I'm not inclined to bring out the guts. I'd prefer to leave that +/- 30% of total weight in the woods. 
    In my mind, gutting (field dressing) isn’t cleaning. You still have an intact carcass that proves fresh harvest, and keeping proof of sex shouldn’t be difficult. 

    The hunter who prefers to actually skin and clean in the woods than drag (and I fall in that camp) would/should have to report before dismemberment. Because once its dismembered its mostly on its way to disappearing and never having existed for bag limit purposes. 
  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 2,155 Captain
    I can't find anywhere in the proposal that the use of an app would be required. Looks like it would be one available  option that a successful hunter would be able to use for reporting.
  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 2,155 Captain
    Can't find anything in the proposal about tags either. I agree that they would be beneficial to management of the resource though. 
  • gladesmangladesman Posts: 1,362 Officer
    edited December 2018 #387
  • Florida BullfrogFlorida Bullfrog Posts: 4,847 Captain
    edited December 2018 #388
    McPherson said he is proposing deletion of the exemption because senior citizens have an interest in adequate funding to protect fish and wildlife resources and habitat.

    I actually think that makes sense. What I don't agree with is this:

    Subcommittee Chairman Sen. George Kirkpatrick, D-Gainesville, suggested some of the revenue, estimated from $18 million to $46 million a year, be used to buy marine habitat for preservation and that some be used to replace part of the general revenue funding currently provided by the Legislature for those programs.

    If we could magically make the funding all go to benefit hunters and fishermen, heck yes seniors should be paying like everyone else does to utilize the resource. Use that extra money to buy the tags or harvest logs the FWC apparently can't afford. 

    But seeing this is coming from Ds who absolutely intend to use the funding to buy lands that can't be hunted or fished, no thank you. 

  • gladesmangladesman Posts: 1,362 Officer
    edited December 2018 #389
    Bullfrog I didn't realize the article I posted a link to was from the mid 80s - so I deleted it - I think but one never knows on this forum.
  • binellishtrbinellishtr Posts: 8,797 Admiral
    Can't find anything in the proposal about tags either. I agree that they would be beneficial to management of the resource though. 
    How do you describe beneficial to the resource and how tags will do this, lets say here in S Florida
  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 2,155 Captain
    What does s FL have anything to do with that n go does not?
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