Some ask for it and we all get it.

1235

Replies

  • FinfinderFinfinder Posts: 9,550 Admiral
    edited June 14 #122
    fins4me said:
    dave44 said:
    Do you advocate  that all of the self described genders test themselves to find out where they fit?
    I'm not all hung up on what sex a person wants to identify with, or what they do in their bedroom, so I think we should leave it up to the person.  Live and let live, brother (or sister or whatever).

    dave44 said:
      Is that your best science?
    No, that's not my best science.  It was offered considering the audience -- it's a simplification.  I was taking into account the public high school education and all.  ;)

    Have a good night, Dave.  
    The wafting scent of unearned arrogance trails him like ozone after a storm.

     the scent of insecurity.  
  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 22,777 AG
    People who are uncertain of and confused by their own gender issues (did it really move???!!!) are the first to tell other people what their gender identification should be.
    133cbf2b243368b1ddb2f591a1988076--beach-posters-florida-travel.jpg
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 10,281 AG
    edited June 14 #124
    cadman said:
    2 genders. Male and female. There is zero physical evidence to the contrary. Transgenderism is a mental disorder.
    The six biological karyotype sexes that do not result in death to the fetus are:
    • X – Roughly 1 in 2,000 to 1 in 5,000 people (Turner's )
    • XX – Most common form of female.
    • XXY – Roughly 1 in 500 to 1 in 1,000 people (Klinefelter)
    • XY – Most common form of male.
    • XYY – Roughly 1 out of 1,000 people.

    All those big words up there are "physical evidence to the contrary".

    Bigotry is a mental disorder, and ignorance is no excuse.

    What is the sixth one? I only count five.

    Also Joshua Kennon is not a biologist. You could at least use a responsible source for your data and not an investment counselor. 


    Thanks for pointing out my poor cut & paste skills.  :)

    Here is the last type:
    • XXXY – Roughly 1 in 18,000 to 1 in 50,000 births

    Here's the article I pulled it from, in case you're interested:  https://www.joshuakennon.com/the-six-common-biological-sexes-in-humans/

    Thanks again...Mike

  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 4,419 Captain
    Cyclist said:
    People who are uncertain of and confused by their own gender issues (did it really move???!!!) are the first to tell other people what their gender identification should be.
    Who call Peter to warn him that someone have stolen his account ?

    Wait...
    This sentence could be read in different ways.
    It's depends on those who are considered as confused people.

    Maybe Peter considers Rocco Siffredi confused and Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner not :D .


    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English

    My YouTube Channel

    I'm typing with my "pasta hole" closed :grin !
    Being politically correct is a self-inflicted slavery.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 10,281 AG
    edited June 14 #126

    2 genders. Male and female. There is zero physical evidence to the contrary. Transgenderism is a mental disorder.
    The six biological karyotype sexes that do not result in death to the fetus are:
    • X – Roughly 1 in 2,000 to 1 in 5,000 people (Turner's )
    • XX – Most common form of female.
    • XXY – Roughly 1 in 500 to 1 in 1,000 people (Klinefelter)
    • XY – Most common form of male.
    • XYY – Roughly 1 out of 1,000 people.

    All those big words up there are "physical evidence to the contrary".

    Bigotry is a mental disorder, and ignorance is no excuse.

    So all of these either reproduce or cause to reproduce? So... they are either male or female.

    If I came to you if you were my doctor and told you that I self-identify as an amputee, would you refer me to a surgeon or a psychologist?
    That depends on the presence of all your limbs or not.  You see, having all your limbs a binary decision, whereas sex is not.  Get it yet, or do you still erroneously think there are only two sexes?
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 10,281 AG
    cadman said:
    BallaCoiPersici and anyone else who is really interested. Here is a nice article on the sexes and how people identify. There is more to it than just XY or XX.

    https://www.nature.com/news/sex-redefined-1.16943#/spectrum
    Mike, more the science analyses in deep more we discover that nothing is simple as it appears, on every field of human biology.
    Anyway the human being is not only the lab biology, human being is a unbelievable complex synergy of biology, education, behavior, sociology and so on. The result of this synergy is (has been) the definition of the "normal" human and the definition of the human (more or less) "not normal".
    "Traditional" genders are the expression of the "normal" humanity, all those new genders are the expression of several exasperated researches that want found, at any cost, the evidences that any human perversion* has a solid scientific background.
    But analyzing with attention this researches you can discover that are always based on ideologies, is not genuine science. For instance I'm sure that also pedophilia can be justified with some biological/scientific facts but nobody is researching in this way (fortunately, and "for now"). 

    So my point is a question: cui prodest all this new gender science ?

    * neither in negative way nor a moral evaluation, in my thought means only a not common ("normal") sexual behavior/attitude.

    Who stands to gain with this new science?  Who knows?  Who cares?  Pure science isn't for gain -- it's for knowledge.  The question you are asking isn't the right one, in my opinion, but rather for someone who is looking to question the underlying biological truths it exposes....which is, as you said, "nothing is as simple as it appears".  Perhaps you might explain that a bit more to Battery and those who think likewise.
  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 22,777 AG
    Cyclist said:
    People who are uncertain of and confused by their own gender issues (did it really move???!!!) are the first to tell other people what their gender identification should be.
    Who call Peter to warn him that someone have stolen his account ?

    Wait...
    This sentence could be read in different ways.
    It's depends on those who are considered as confused people.

    Maybe Peter considers Rocco Siffredi confused and Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner not :D .


    The people who believe they are staunchly heterosexual are the ones.

    Just try and tell me that Jeff Sessions is not gay...
    133cbf2b243368b1ddb2f591a1988076--beach-posters-florida-travel.jpg
  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 4,419 Captain
    cadman said:
    BallaCoiPersici and anyone else who is really interested. Here is a nice article on the sexes and how people identify. There is more to it than just XY or XX.

    https://www.nature.com/news/sex-redefined-1.16943#/spectrum
    Mike, more the science analyses in deep more we discover that nothing is simple as it appears, on every field of human biology.
    Anyway the human being is not only the lab biology, human being is a unbelievable complex synergy of biology, education, behavior, sociology and so on. The result of this synergy is (has been) the definition of the "normal" human and the definition of the human (more or less) "not normal".
    "Traditional" genders are the expression of the "normal" humanity, all those new genders are the expression of several exasperated researches that want found, at any cost, the evidences that any human perversion* has a solid scientific background.
    But analyzing with attention this researches you can discover that are always based on ideologies, is not genuine science. For instance I'm sure that also pedophilia can be justified with some biological/scientific facts but nobody is researching in this way (fortunately, and "for now"). 

    So my point is a question: cui prodest all this new gender science ?

    * neither in negative way nor a moral evaluation, in my thought means only a not common ("normal") sexual behavior/attitude.

    Who stands to gain with this new science?  Who knows?  Who cares?  Pure science isn't for gain -- it's for knowledge.  The question you are asking isn't the right one, in my opinion, but rather for someone who is looking to question the underlying biological truths it exposes....which is, as you said, "nothing is as simple as it appears".  Perhaps you might explain that a bit more to Battery and those who think likewise.
    I think “cui prodest” is the first question to do for almost everything but in particular for ethical topics.

    And never forget that if nothing is as simple as it appears it is also often true that many things are not as complex as someone want the people believe ;) 
    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English

    My YouTube Channel

    I'm typing with my "pasta hole" closed :grin !
    Being politically correct is a self-inflicted slavery.
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 9,563 Admiral
    Can anyone produce the name of either male or female that has had their sex changed? The answer is no. It is impossible.
     And yes, it is a serious mental illness. 
    2013 Pathfinder 22 TE , 150 Yamaha,
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 10,281 AG
    edited June 14 #131
    You are far to young to be so cynical.  :)

    Occam was right.
  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 4,419 Captain
    Can anyone produce the name of either male or female that has had their sex changed? The answer is no. It is impossible.
     And yes, it is a serious mental illness. 
    Like it is impossible, in Nature, having kids for same sex couples, having bigger boobs and d*icks, having a french nose for a bald eagle and so on. All of those are only “products” of the modern tantrums market. Who sells, who buys. Nothing more, nothing less.

    This is the reason of my question that Mike doesn’t like.
    A lot of business behind all those modern “needs”, an huge business. And everything (sport, science, politics, etc.) have to get down on their knees in front at the business.
    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English

    My YouTube Channel

    I'm typing with my "pasta hole" closed :grin !
    Being politically correct is a self-inflicted slavery.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 10,281 AG
    edited June 14 #133
    Be careful, Balla, or someone around here will call you diciple of Marx.  Not me, of course, but someone.

    I'm as skeptical as anyone when it comes to corporate greed, but I don't ascribe chromosome research to it, nor the pleas of those discriminated against because of it...particularly when they are founded on simple ignorance of the facts of the matter, as they appeared to be with Battery.

    Take care...Mike
  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 4,419 Captain
    Why ? Business is good when based on humans true needs as is bad when based on humans tantrums.
    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English

    My YouTube Channel

    I'm typing with my "pasta hole" closed :grin !
    Being politically correct is a self-inflicted slavery.
  • GardawgGardawg Posts: 7,385 Admiral
    Why ? Business is good when based on humans true needs as is bad when based on humans tantrums.
     … a profitable  business is based on demand. 

    every time.





    “Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves.

    Heres Tom with the Weather.”
  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 4,419 Captain
    Be careful, Balla, or someone around here will call you diciple of Marx.  Not me, of course, but someone.

    I'm as skeptical as anyone when it comes to corporate greed, but I don't ascribe chromosome research to it, nor the pleas of those discriminated against because of it...particularly when they are founded on simple ignorance of the facts of the matter, as they appeared to be with Battery.

    Take care...Mike
    The point isn’t the research itself but how the research is used.
    Is the research you posted really useful, with a practical point of view (so aside the academic aspects), considering that hermaphroditism isn’t a gap for the 99% of them who lives as male or female without any problem ?
    It would be surely useful to understand (and try to fix as better as possible) the 1% of the real pathologies unless is even used to justify who was born 100% male or 100% female and want to change without any physiologic need but only because their minds or, my opinion, to obtain privileges (men who compete against women, for instance).
    In my opinion the gender research is following the steps of the plastic surgery that was born to recover injures and pathologies but nowadays has become mainly a cosmetic business.

    And at the end, who finances researches ?
    Mainly politics and corporates (that also finance politics).
    Western world, our world, probably the less bad considering alternatives, but isn’t perfect.
    We mustn’t forget this fact.
    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English

    My YouTube Channel

    I'm typing with my "pasta hole" closed :grin !
    Being politically correct is a self-inflicted slavery.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 10,281 AG
    edited June 14 #137

    Why ? Business is good when based on humans true needs as is bad when based on humans tantrums.
    Sorry, I don't follow you.  Are saying a person with Klinefelter Syndrome is just having a bad day?  Or they aren't numerous enough to warrant a business catering to them?  Or are you saying this whole "more than 2 sexes' thing is just made up to sell transvestite clothing or operations or something?

  • GardawgGardawg Posts: 7,385 Admiral
    the word conflicted comes to mind
    “Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves.

    Heres Tom with the Weather.”
  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 4,419 Captain

    Why ? Business is good when based on humans true needs as is bad when based on humans tantrums.
    Sorry, I don't follow you.  Are saying a person with Klinefelter Syndrome is just having a bad day?  Or they aren't numerous enough to warrant a business catering to them?  Or are you saying this whole "more than 2 sexes' thing is just made up to sell transvestite clothing or operations or something?

    No, I’m saying that when the science fits perfectly with some current strong interests (ideologies, politics, business, etc.) could be a problem.

    History has taught (or teached ?) to me something ;)

    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English

    My YouTube Channel

    I'm typing with my "pasta hole" closed :grin !
    Being politically correct is a self-inflicted slavery.
  • tankardtankard Posts: 6,387 Admiral

    It is out of control.

    Even Ronda Rousey...when she was relevant for that 15 minutes...said she would not get in the ring with a male-to-female "transgender". Their muscles and bone structure developed as a male, and there is a big difference.

  • Soda PopinskiSoda Popinski GrovelandPosts: 8,542 Admiral
    tankard said:

    It is out of control.

    Even Ronda Rousey...when she was relevant for that 15 minutes...said she would not get in the ring with a male-to-female "transgender". Their muscles and bone structure developed as a male, and there is a big difference.

    She's right.   Different hormones, different muscle, different everything.   You can identify one way or the other, but you need to stick to the gender sport you were born into.   

    I keep telling people I identify as rich, and when I write that check for a 31' cape horn with triple 350s they should take it based on the fact that i Identify with rich people.  regardless of whether it cashes or not (it never would).   
    People use statistics the way a drunk uses a street light, for support rather than illumination.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 10,281 AG
    edited June 14 #142

    Why ? Business is good when based on humans true needs as is bad when based on humans tantrums.
    Sorry, I don't follow you.  Are saying a person with Klinefelter Syndrome is just having a bad day?  Or they aren't numerous enough to warrant a business catering to them?  Or are you saying this whole "more than 2 sexes' thing is just made up to sell transvestite clothing or operations or something?

    No, I’m saying that when the science fits perfectly with some current strong interests (ideologies, politics, business, etc.) could be a problem.

    History has taught (or teached ?) to me something ;)

    I would think that the lesson history as taught you is that there's a problem when ideology leads science.

    The trouble with this issue in particular, Balla, is that the science has led the ideology.  These chromosome facts have been known to science for decades now.  The specific syndrome I mentioned, Klinefelter, was first observed in 1942 and linked to the XXY chromosome in 1956.

    So I agree it is VERY dangerous when society leads science, but it is completely natural  when science leads society. 

    Perhaps next time it might not take us 75 or so years to come to grips with it, so the good news is there's room for improvement.
  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 4,419 Captain

    Good point, but isn’t easy for me trust totally science when it is so close to the mainstream ideologies I don’t share and endorsed by leaders that made only disasters to achieve their goals.

    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English

    My YouTube Channel

    I'm typing with my "pasta hole" closed :grin !
    Being politically correct is a self-inflicted slavery.
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 24,003 AG
    cadman said:
    2 genders. Male and female. There is zero physical evidence to the contrary. Transgenderism is a mental disorder.
    The six biological karyotype sexes that do not result in death to the fetus are:
    • X – Roughly 1 in 2,000 to 1 in 5,000 people (Turner's )
    • XX – Most common form of female.
    • XXY – Roughly 1 in 500 to 1 in 1,000 people (Klinefelter)
    • XY – Most common form of male.
    • XYY – Roughly 1 out of 1,000 people.

    All those big words up there are "physical evidence to the contrary".

    Bigotry is a mental disorder, and ignorance is no excuse.

    What is the sixth one? I only count five.

    Also Joshua Kennon is not a biologist. You could at least use a responsible source for your data and not an investment counselor. 


    Thanks for pointing out my poor cut & paste skills.  :)

    Here is the last type:
    • XXXY – Roughly 1 in 18,000 to 1 in 50,000 births

    Here's the article I pulled it from, in case you're interested:  https://www.joshuakennon.com/the-six-common-biological-sexes-in-humans/

    Thanks again...Mike

    That is not an article, that is Joshua Kennon's Blog. He is an investment adviser who wrote The Complete Idiot's Guide to Investing. 

    Mini Mart Magnate

  • dave44dave44 Posts: 7,036 Admiral
    cadman said:
    2 genders. Male and female. There is zero physical evidence to the contrary. Transgenderism is a mental disorder.
    The six biological karyotype sexes that do not result in death to the fetus are:
    • X – Roughly 1 in 2,000 to 1 in 5,000 people (Turner's )
    • XX – Most common form of female.
    • XXY – Roughly 1 in 500 to 1 in 1,000 people (Klinefelter)
    • XY – Most common form of male.
    • XYY – Roughly 1 out of 1,000 people.

    All those big words up there are "physical evidence to the contrary".

    Bigotry is a mental disorder, and ignorance is no excuse.

    What is the sixth one? I only count five.

    Also Joshua Kennon is not a biologist. You could at least use a responsible source for your data and not an investment counselor. 


    Thanks for pointing out my poor cut & paste skills.  :)

    Here is the last type:
    • XXXY – Roughly 1 in 18,000 to 1 in 50,000 births

    Here's the article I pulled it from, in case you're interested:  https://www.joshuakennon.com/the-six-common-biological-sexes-in-humans/

    Thanks again...Mike

    It looks as if your religion is getting beyond its factual boundaries.
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 9,563 Admiral
    And where has this SCIENCE  successfully changed the sex of a human being??
    2013 Pathfinder 22 TE , 150 Yamaha,
  • fins4mefins4me Posts: 14,047 AG
    Those FEW individuals who are born with physical sexual deformations have ZERO to do with the idiots who declare themselves, rabbits when they are human, carrots when they are humans,  men when they are women or women when they are men or any othe made up gender idiocy. 
    ALLISON XB 21,, MERCURY 300 Opti Max Pro Series (Slightly Modified) You can't catch me!!!
    "Today is MINE"
  • mindyabinessmindyabiness Posts: 3,753 Captain
    Cyclist said:
    Cyclist said:
    People who are uncertain of and confused by their own gender issues (did it really move???!!!) are the first to tell other people what their gender identification should be.
    Who call Peter to warn him that someone have stolen his account ?

    Wait...
    This sentence could be read in different ways.
    It's depends on those who are considered as confused people.

    Maybe Peter considers Rocco Siffredi confused and Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner not :D .


    The people who believe they are staunchly heterosexual are the ones.

    Just try and tell me that Jeff Sessions is not gay...
    That didn't work. Try something else.
    Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon... No matter how good you are, the bird is going to crap on the board and strut around like it won anyway. nj
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 10,281 AG
    edited June 15 #149

    cadman said:
    cadman said:
    2 genders. Male and female. There is zero physical evidence to the contrary. Transgenderism is a mental disorder.
    The six biological karyotype sexes that do not result in death to the fetus are:
    • X – Roughly 1 in 2,000 to 1 in 5,000 people (Turner's )
    • XX – Most common form of female.
    • XXY – Roughly 1 in 500 to 1 in 1,000 people (Klinefelter)
    • XY – Most common form of male.
    • XYY – Roughly 1 out of 1,000 people.

    All those big words up there are "physical evidence to the contrary".

    Bigotry is a mental disorder, and ignorance is no excuse.

    What is the sixth one? I only count five.

    Also Joshua Kennon is not a biologist. You could at least use a responsible source for your data and not an investment counselor. 


    Thanks for pointing out my poor cut & paste skills.  :)

    Here is the last type:
    • XXXY – Roughly 1 in 18,000 to 1 in 50,000 births

    Here's the article I pulled it from, in case you're interested:  https://www.joshuakennon.com/the-six-common-biological-sexes-in-humans/

    Thanks again...Mike

    That is not an article, that is Joshua Kennon's Blog. He is an investment adviser who wrote The Complete Idiot's Guide to Investing. 
    Hi Cad. 

    Thank you for pointing that out.  However, I'm not sure if there is a substantive difference is between an "article" and a "blog".  Setting that aside the definition of "article" for a moment, and the fact remains that was where I pulled the summary I shared from.  Furthermore, it's accurate (if a bit of an oversimplification in the broader context of human sex and gender). 

    More to the point of my response this evening, do you disagree with any of it, or is it a fairy straightforward summary of the chromosomal sex types and demonstrably proves there are more than just 2 sexes? 

    Thanks...Mike
  • cadmancadman Home of the Gators Posts: 24,003 AG
    edited June 15 #150
    I think of an article being fact based or news type information. A blog is simply someone opinion written on their web page without any source to verify its accuracy or factual bases. 

    Also, it is wrong. It is not six different sexes. The only thing determining a person is male, biologically, is the presence of the Y chromosome. If it is present, they are male, so the blog is wrong in claiming six sexes biologically. 

    Also, there are more deviations that do not result in death than he claims, There is also XXX syndrome, XXYY syndrome, and XYYY syndrome. I am sure there may be others I am unaware of since my biology knowledge is limited, I only know these from a previous discussion on this subject. I think the only ones that result in death is if the X chromosome is missing. 





    Mini Mart Magnate

  • BallaCoiPersiciBallaCoiPersici NW Italy (Laveno Mombello)Posts: 4,419 Captain
    edited June 16 #151
    fins4me said:
    Those FEW individuals who are born with physical sexual deformations have ZERO to do with the idiots who declare themselves, rabbits when they are human, carrots when they are humans,  men when they are women or women when they are men or any othe made up gender idiocy. 

    Exactly, the point indeed is about those who declare themselves as something else than what they really are without any valid biological reason (as I already said IMO the most of the men who declare themselves women).

    And the issue on this point is how the people that live according to what they really are (the “normal” people) should relate with those confused or/and opportunistic individuals.

    A guy who declares himself as reptilian is commonly considered or a fraud or a weird person (when not a mentally ill).

    Instead a men (XY) who declares himself as women is often considered as a brave individual who makes his life choice and must be protected by law.

    My opinion still remains “live and let live” unless I must live according to the weird rules of weird people, doesn’t matter if reptilians, transgenders, flatearthers, creationists or so on.

    Massimo (former Ballak) - Please, be patient for my English

    My YouTube Channel

    I'm typing with my "pasta hole" closed :grin !
    Being politically correct is a self-inflicted slavery.
Sign In or Register to comment.