More Californians taking a stand

MGTeacher

Seems this Sheriff has the right idea.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/calif-sheriff-to-publicize-inmate-releases-to-help-ice-find-undocumented-immigrants/ar-BBKM6a4?li=BBnbcA1

Florida Ex-pat

I am so frustrated that the Democratic party wants to have illegal immigrants with criminal convictions roaming our state freely for votes to keep their one-party control over the state of California.  They always trot out the kids whose mother works 2 jobs cleaning hotel rooms so they can have a better life but have not once shown the MS-13 or Notreno gang members that terrorize communities and commit crime without fear.  It is truly appalling.  This is purely about votes and power there is not philosophy that tells us this is good for our communities.

Tarponator

States rights, until it isn't, I suppose.

That said, I think that if an illegal immigrant is arrested and convicted of a serious crime they should be deported...and local and federal law enforcement should work together.

California believes differently, and the law (if not all of law enforcement) appears to be on their side.  It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Cyclist

Florida Ex-pat said:

I am so frustrated that the Democratic party wants to have illegal immigrants with criminal convictions roaming our state freely for votes to keep their one-party control over the state of California.  They always trot out the kids whose mother works 2 jobs cleaning hotel rooms so they can have a better life but have not once shown the MS-13 or Notreno gang members that terrorize communities and commit crime without fear.  It is truly appalling.  This is purely about votes and power there is not philosophy that tells us this is good for our communities.

Read this. Gives a lot of insight on Jerry and his work with California law officials to come up with the plan. The right is lying to you about this. Don't believe a word they say...

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/03/26/inside-californias-war-on-trump

MGTeacher

Tarponator said:

States rights, until it isn't, I suppose.

That said, I think that if an illegal immigrant is arrested and convicted of a serious crime they should be deported...and local and federal law enforcement should work together.

California believes differently, and the law (if not all of law enforcement) appears to be on their side.  It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

No need for an Illegal Immigrant to be convicted before they are deported. They are already guilty. Just arrest and deport.

Cyclist

An illegal immigrant is a person who strives to work very very very hard for below norm pay and harsh degrading conditions to provide for his/her family and who left conditions that put him/her and the family in danger, via poverty, gang warfare, etc.

An employer of illegal immigrants is a scofflaw who strives to use and abuse people via poor working conditions and poverty wages who are under duress because they were forces to leave notorious conditions of poverty and violence to protect their families. These scofflaws are looking for personal monetary reward at the expense of human beings that are striving to protect the health of their families and at the expense of paying living wages and treating people fairly and like human beings.  

Florida Ex-pat

Cyclist said:

An illegal immigrant is a person who strives to work very very very hard for below norm pay and harsh degrading conditions to provide for his/her family and who left conditions that put him/her and the family in danger, via poverty, gang warfare, etc.

An employer of illegal immigrants is a scofflaw who strives to use and abuse people via poor working conditions and poverty wages who are under duress because they were forces to leave notorious conditions of poverty and violence to protect their families. These scofflaws are looking for personal monetary reward at the expense of human beings that are striving to protect the health of their families and at the expense of paying living wages and treating people fairly and like human beings.  

All illegal immigrants are not as you describe.  And just as the anti-gun crowd wants to allow the actions of a few affect the lawful actions of others the same is being applied to illegal immigrants.  The difference is one is already in violation of the law.

Florida Ex-pat

Cyclist said:

Florida Ex-pat said:

I am so frustrated that the Democratic party wants to have illegal immigrants with criminal convictions roaming our state freely for votes to keep their one-party control over the state of California.  They always trot out the kids whose mother works 2 jobs cleaning hotel rooms so they can have a better life but have not once shown the MS-13 or Notreno gang members that terrorize communities and commit crime without fear.  It is truly appalling.  This is purely about votes and power there is not philosophy that tells us this is good for our communities.

Read this. Gives a lot of insight on Jerry and his work with California law officials to come up with the plan. The right is lying to you about this. Don't believe a word they say...

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/03/26/inside-californias-war-on-trump

Cyclist said:

Florida Ex-pat said:

I am so frustrated that the Democratic party wants to have illegal immigrants with criminal convictions roaming our state freely for votes to keep their one-party control over the state of California.  They always trot out the kids whose mother works 2 jobs cleaning hotel rooms so they can have a better life but have not once shown the MS-13 or Notreno gang members that terrorize communities and commit crime without fear.  It is truly appalling.  This is purely about votes and power there is not philosophy that tells us this is good for our communities.

Read this. Gives a lot of insight on Jerry and his work with California law officials to come up with the plan. The right is lying to you about this. Don't believe a word they say...

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/03/26/inside-californias-war-on-trump

I live here.  I am affected by this daily.  My local news gives me the narrative straight from Jerry's office lock step. It is not just Jerry Brown it is the elected officials in cities and municipalities following his lead and going farther.  You are the one without insight into this, try living in cities where they march and call everyday working people bigots for simply stating that citizens should come first for things such as public university admissions or that reformed immigration is necessary due to rampant illegal immigration.  We have people running for office on the "Resist Trump" platform out here.  No ideology just anti  Trump.  That is ignorant. 

SAENole

Sounds almost as bad as Gainesville.  

ANUMBER1

Cyclist said:

An illegal immigrant is a person who strives to work very very very hard for below norm pay and harsh degrading conditions to provide for his/her family and who left conditions that put him/her and the family in danger, via poverty, gang warfare, etc.

An employer of illegal immigrants is a scofflaw who strives to use and abuse people via poor working conditions and poverty wages who are under duress because they were forces to leave notorious conditions of poverty and violence to protect their families. These scofflaws are looking for personal monetary reward at the expense of human beings that are striving to protect the health of their families and at the expense of paying living wages and treating people fairly and like human beings.  

you are full of chit.

GA Fin

Cyclist said:

An illegal immigrant is a person who strives to work very very very hard for below norm pay and harsh degrading conditions to provide for his/her family and who left conditions that put him/her and the family in danger, via poverty, gang warfare, etc.

An employer of illegal immigrants is a scofflaw who strives to use and abuse people via poor working conditions and poverty wages who are under duress because they were forces to leave notorious conditions of poverty and violence to protect their families. These scofflaws are looking for personal monetary reward at the expense of human beings that are striving to protect the health of their families and at the expense of paying living wages and treating people fairly and like human beings.  

Pete, you are wrong.

I'm a builder/developer. In the construction business there are a lot of undocumented folks working labor jobs.

Let me give you some examples.

My concrete subcontractor, who I have used for 20 years, is a naturalized citizen Michoacán, Mexico. His employees start out at $900 per week CASH. $900 per week cash money(zero with holding) is not below norm pay nor harsh and degrading conditions.

The same can be said of my framing contractor, roofing contractor, drywall contractor, landscaping contractor, siding contractor and others.

They all start out at around $900 per week cash money with no experience. The pay goes up from there.

It now costs $15,000 to get a man from Michoacán to Houston. No refund if he does not make it. No refund if he disappears. No refund if he gets arrested after he gets here.

I'm not pulling this out of my butt. I know these guys. I eat with these guys. I drink beer with these guys. I work with these guys every day. 

The "dream" most(every guy I ever talk with) have is to save money and move back to Mexico. Carlos, who leads the drywall hanging crew, was showing me pictures on his phone of his new house on his ranch in Mexico. He just finished building it. He has cattle and horses and he plans to retire down there in a couple years.   

Alejandro, my concrete sub, has a large cattle ranch and is already retired back to Michoacán. He also owns several other business there including a supermercado. He has invited me down to go hunting, but I told him that with a certain "gang" down there I would not feel safe. He advised me that I would be protected but I still declined. My concern is that some gangster may not get the memo and I'd be beheaded with a chainsaw.  

Here are some facts:

1. We need labor from south of the border. 10 million more workers would be a good start. Every business around here is desperate for help. It is stunting the growth of the economy and driving up prices.

2. Most immigrants from, Mexico, Ecuador, Guatemala, ect, don't want citizenship. They would rather have a work visa. We need a visa system where employers can sponsor workers for labor oriented jobs. 

3. You can't find white boys or black boys that will work a construction labor job that starts at $900 per week. They will not show up and work. 

4. We need to document everyone in our country and who is coming and who is going.

5. We need to control our borders.

For the record, I do not hire undocumented workers. I hire documented subcontractors. I have W9's, I9's, licenses and insurance on file. The subcontractors are responsible for their employees.

  

Cyclist

GA Fin said:

Cyclist said:

An illegal immigrant is a person who strives to work very very very hard for below norm pay and harsh degrading conditions to provide for his/her family and who left conditions that put him/her and the family in danger, via poverty, gang warfare, etc.

An employer of illegal immigrants is a scofflaw who strives to use and abuse people via poor working conditions and poverty wages who are under duress because they were forces to leave notorious conditions of poverty and violence to protect their families. These scofflaws are looking for personal monetary reward at the expense of human beings that are striving to protect the health of their families and at the expense of paying living wages and treating people fairly and like human beings.  

Pete, you are wrong.

I'm a builder/developer. In the construction business there are a lot of undocumented folks working labor jobs.

Let me give you some examples.

My concrete subcontractor, who I have used for 20 years, is a naturalized citizen Michoacán, Mexico. His employees start out at $900 per week CASH. $900 per week cash money(zero with holding) is not below norm pay nor harsh and degrading conditions.

The same can be said of my framing contractor, roofing contractor, drywall contractor, landscaping contractor, siding contractor and others.

They all start out at around $900 per week cash money with no experience. The pay goes up from there.

It now costs $15,000 to get a man from Michoacán to Houston. No refund if he does not make it. No refund if he disappears. No refund if he gets arrested after he gets here.

I'm not pulling this out of my butt. I know these guys. I eat with these guys. I drink beer with these guys. I work with these guys every day. 

The "dream" most(every guy I ever talk with) have is to save money and move back to Mexico. Carlos, who leads the drywall hanging crew, was showing me pictures on his phone of his new house on his ranch in Mexico. He just finished building it. He has cattle and horses and he plans to retire down there in a couple years.   

Alejandro, my concrete sub, has a large cattle ranch and is already retired back to Michoacán. He also owns several other business there including a supermercado. He has invited me down to go hunting, but I told him that with a certain "gang" down there I would not feel safe. He advised me that I would be protected but I still declined. My concern is that some gangster may not get the memo and I'd be beheaded with a chainsaw.  

Here are some facts:

1. We need labor from south of the border. 10 million more workers would be a good start. Every business around here is desperate for help. It is stunting the growth of the economy and driving up prices.

2. Most immigrants from, Mexico, Ecuador, Guatemala, ect, don't want citizenship. They would rather have a work visa. We need a visa system where employers can sponsor workers for labor oriented jobs. 

3. You can't find white boys or black boys that will work a construction labor job that starts at $900 per week. They will not show up and work. 

4. We need to document everyone in our country and who is coming and who is going.

5. We need to control our borders.

For the record, I do not hire undocumented workers. I hire documented subcontractors. I have W9's, I9's, licenses and insurance on file. The subcontractors are responsible for their employees.

  

Interesting. You think its the norm, say in the meat packing industries? Lots of illegals, low pay and injuries.

GA Fin

Cyclist said:

GA Fin said:

Cyclist said:

An illegal immigrant is a person who strives to work very very very hard for below norm pay and harsh degrading conditions to provide for his/her family and who left conditions that put him/her and the family in danger, via poverty, gang warfare, etc.

An employer of illegal immigrants is a scofflaw who strives to use and abuse people via poor working conditions and poverty wages who are under duress because they were forces to leave notorious conditions of poverty and violence to protect their families. These scofflaws are looking for personal monetary reward at the expense of human beings that are striving to protect the health of their families and at the expense of paying living wages and treating people fairly and like human beings.  

Pete, you are wrong.

I'm a builder/developer. In the construction business there are a lot of undocumented folks working labor jobs.

Let me give you some examples.

My concrete subcontractor, who I have used for 20 years, is a naturalized citizen Michoacán, Mexico. His employees start out at $900 per week CASH. $900 per week cash money(zero with holding) is not below norm pay nor harsh and degrading conditions.

The same can be said of my framing contractor, roofing contractor, drywall contractor, landscaping contractor, siding contractor and others.

They all start out at around $900 per week cash money with no experience. The pay goes up from there.

It now costs $15,000 to get a man from Michoacán to Houston. No refund if he does not make it. No refund if he disappears. No refund if he gets arrested after he gets here.

I'm not pulling this out of my butt. I know these guys. I eat with these guys. I drink beer with these guys. I work with these guys every day. 

The "dream" most(every guy I ever talk with) have is to save money and move back to Mexico. Carlos, who leads the drywall hanging crew, was showing me pictures on his phone of his new house on his ranch in Mexico. He just finished building it. He has cattle and horses and he plans to retire down there in a couple years.   

Alejandro, my concrete sub, has a large cattle ranch and is already retired back to Michoacán. He also owns several other business there including a supermercado. He has invited me down to go hunting, but I told him that with a certain "gang" down there I would not feel safe. He advised me that I would be protected but I still declined. My concern is that some gangster may not get the memo and I'd be beheaded with a chainsaw.  

Here are some facts:

1. We need labor from south of the border. 10 million more workers would be a good start. Every business around here is desperate for help. It is stunting the growth of the economy and driving up prices.

2. Most immigrants from, Mexico, Ecuador, Guatemala, ect, don't want citizenship. They would rather have a work visa. We need a visa system where employers can sponsor workers for labor oriented jobs. 

3. You can't find white boys or black boys that will work a construction labor job that starts at $900 per week. They will not show up and work. 

4. We need to document everyone in our country and who is coming and who is going.

5. We need to control our borders.

For the record, I do not hire undocumented workers. I hire documented subcontractors. I have W9's, I9's, licenses and insurance on file. The subcontractors are responsible for their employees.

  

Interesting. You think its the norm, say in the meat packing industries? Lots of illegals, low pay and injuries.

Around here it is chicken processing jobs when it comes to meat packing. Good pay, benefits, job security and no experience needed. They are always hiring.

It is not harsh nor degrading. Hard work? Yep. So is firefighting and construction and I don't think either are harsh or degrading and I have done both.

lakeman

Cyclist said:

An illegal immigrant is a person who strives to work very very very hard for below norm pay and harsh degrading conditions to provide for his/her family and who left conditions that put him/her and the family in danger, via poverty, gang warfare, etc.

An employer of illegal immigrants is a scofflaw who strives to use and abuse people via poor working conditions and poverty wages who are under duress because they were forces to leave notorious conditions of poverty and violence to protect their families. These scofflaws are looking for personal monetary reward at the expense of human beings that are striving to protect the health of their families and at the expense of paying living wages and treating people fairly and like human beings.  

It might be true for most people who employ illegals, but not for all.  Sad, but your comment is the bigger truth.  Just do not let illegals  work here. and punish those who employ them.  However our produce prices will rise.

swampwalker

What about the illegals that are coming here trying to further their "gang" ties and entering the criminal free trade market? Not everyone slipping in is looking for citizenship is true. Many are exploring and expanding their crime markets. 

treemanjohn

Californians use to take a hard stand against illegal immigration

Westwall01

Cyclist has his plastic  helmet strapped on too tight once ago. Loosen that thing and let the blood flow....it'll help your thought process.

2amigo

Cyclist said:

An illegal immigrant is a person who strives to work very very very hard for below norm pay and harsh degrading conditions to provide for his/her family and who left conditions that put him/her and the family in danger, via poverty, gang warfare, etc.

An employer of illegal immigrants is a scofflaw who strives to use and abuse people via poor working conditions and poverty wages who are under duress because they were forces to leave notorious conditions of poverty and violence to protect their families. These scofflaws are looking for personal monetary reward at the expense of human beings that are striving to protect the health of their families and at the expense of paying living wages and treating people fairly and like human beings.  

Then the illegal immigrant needs to come here the legal way like the rest who came here legally.  Then they won't be taken advantage of.  Supporting that they are here illegally basically supports the system you are speaking of in your second paragraph

NewberryJeff

Cyclist said:

GA Fin said:

Cyclist said:

An illegal immigrant is a person who strives to work very very very hard for below norm pay and harsh degrading conditions to provide for his/her family and who left conditions that put him/her and the family in danger, via poverty, gang warfare, etc.

An employer of illegal immigrants is a scofflaw who strives to use and abuse people via poor working conditions and poverty wages who are under duress because they were forces to leave notorious conditions of poverty and violence to protect their families. These scofflaws are looking for personal monetary reward at the expense of human beings that are striving to protect the health of their families and at the expense of paying living wages and treating people fairly and like human beings.  

Pete, you are wrong.

I'm a builder/developer. In the construction business there are a lot of undocumented folks working labor jobs.

Let me give you some examples.

My concrete subcontractor, who I have used for 20 years, is a naturalized citizen Michoacán, Mexico. His employees start out at $900 per week CASH. $900 per week cash money(zero with holding) is not below norm pay nor harsh and degrading conditions.

The same can be said of my framing contractor, roofing contractor, drywall contractor, landscaping contractor, siding contractor and others.

They all start out at around $900 per week cash money with no experience. The pay goes up from there.

It now costs $15,000 to get a man from Michoacán to Houston. No refund if he does not make it. No refund if he disappears. No refund if he gets arrested after he gets here.

I'm not pulling this out of my butt. I know these guys. I eat with these guys. I drink beer with these guys. I work with these guys every day. 

The "dream" most(every guy I ever talk with) have is to save money and move back to Mexico. Carlos, who leads the drywall hanging crew, was showing me pictures on his phone of his new house on his ranch in Mexico. He just finished building it. He has cattle and horses and he plans to retire down there in a couple years.   

Alejandro, my concrete sub, has a large cattle ranch and is already retired back to Michoacán. He also owns several other business there including a supermercado. He has invited me down to go hunting, but I told him that with a certain "gang" down there I would not feel safe. He advised me that I would be protected but I still declined. My concern is that some gangster may not get the memo and I'd be beheaded with a chainsaw.  

Here are some facts:

1. We need labor from south of the border. 10 million more workers would be a good start. Every business around here is desperate for help. It is stunting the growth of the economy and driving up prices.

2. Most immigrants from, Mexico, Ecuador, Guatemala, ect, don't want citizenship. They would rather have a work visa. We need a visa system where employers can sponsor workers for labor oriented jobs. 

3. You can't find white boys or black boys that will work a construction labor job that starts at $900 per week. They will not show up and work. 

4. We need to document everyone in our country and who is coming and who is going.

5. We need to control our borders.

For the record, I do not hire undocumented workers. I hire documented subcontractors. I have W9's, I9's, licenses and insurance on file. The subcontractors are responsible for their employees.

  

Interesting. You think its the norm, say in the meat packing industries? Lots of illegals, low pay and injuries.

Those goal posts are barely visible now.

Put your mind at ease, automation will soon eliminate pesky, repetitive motion ouchies and those good, hardworking people will no longer be able to support themselves.

mustang190

I wish I could take cyclist and some others here who think illegal immigration is ok to some of the places I have been to in California. They have turned into third world slums. 
 I have stated here before, I am all for a strict work visa for Mexican citizens who can pass a background check to be allowed to come here and work. But they cannot bring their families. 
 It would end the exploitation and improve the work and wage conditions. 
 I agree with GAfin, try to get most 20 something’s to work! Mommy and daddy give them everything. 

Cyclist

swampwalker said:

What about the illegals that are coming here trying to further their "gang" ties and entering the criminal free trade market? Not everyone slipping in is looking for citizenship is true. Many are exploring and expanding their crime markets. 

They should be dealt with. The question is, send them home and they most assuredly will try and come here again, or jail them here at our expense. Not sure other countries would jail them, so they may continue to threaten us.

Cyclist

2amigo said:

Cyclist said:

An illegal immigrant is a person who strives to work very very very hard for below norm pay and harsh degrading conditions to provide for his/her family and who left conditions that put him/her and the family in danger, via poverty, gang warfare, etc.

An employer of illegal immigrants is a scofflaw who strives to use and abuse people via poor working conditions and poverty wages who are under duress because they were forces to leave notorious conditions of poverty and violence to protect their families. These scofflaws are looking for personal monetary reward at the expense of human beings that are striving to protect the health of their families and at the expense of paying living wages and treating people fairly and like human beings.  

Then the illegal immigrant needs to come here the legal way like the rest who came here legally.  Then they won't be taken advantage of.  Supporting that they are here illegally basically supports the system you are speaking of in your second paragraph

trump is trying to eliminate legal means for people of color.

MGTeacher

Cyclist said:

swampwalker said:

What about the illegals that are coming here trying to further their "gang" ties and entering the criminal free trade market? Not everyone slipping in is looking for citizenship is true. Many are exploring and expanding their crime markets. 

They should be dealt with. The question is, send them home and they most assuredly will try and come here again, or jail them here at our expense. Not sure other countries would jail them, so they may continue to threaten us.

How about a bullet in the head?

1outlaw

MGTeacher said:

Cyclist said:

swampwalker said:

What about the illegals that are coming here trying to further their "gang" ties and entering the criminal free trade market? Not everyone slipping in is looking for citizenship is true. Many are exploring and expanding their crime markets. 

They should be dealt with. The question is, send them home and they most assuredly will try and come here again, or jail them here at our expense. Not sure other countries would jail them, so they may continue to threaten us.

How about a bullet in the head?

Either that or build a wall???

Resinhead

Thanks to the Omnibus Bill it seems that wall will be built!

Cyclist

MGTeacher said:

Cyclist said:

swampwalker said:

What about the illegals that are coming here trying to further their "gang" ties and entering the criminal free trade market? Not everyone slipping in is looking for citizenship is true. Many are exploring and expanding their crime markets. 

They should be dealt with. The question is, send them home and they most assuredly will try and come here again, or jail them here at our expense. Not sure other countries would jail them, so they may continue to threaten us.

How about a bullet in the head?

Why people think that right wing nut jobs like the US Constitution is beyond me.

Cyclist

Resinhead said:

Thanks to the Omnibus Bill it seems that wall will be built!

military wants to build no wall...

2amigo

Cyclist said:

2amigo said:

Cyclist said:

An illegal immigrant is a person who strives to work very very very hard for below norm pay and harsh degrading conditions to provide for his/her family and who left conditions that put him/her and the family in danger, via poverty, gang warfare, etc.

An employer of illegal immigrants is a scofflaw who strives to use and abuse people via poor working conditions and poverty wages who are under duress because they were forces to leave notorious conditions of poverty and violence to protect their families. These scofflaws are looking for personal monetary reward at the expense of human beings that are striving to protect the health of their families and at the expense of paying living wages and treating people fairly and like human beings.  

Then the illegal immigrant needs to come here the legal way like the rest who came here legally.  Then they won't be taken advantage of.  Supporting that they are here illegally basically supports the system you are speaking of in your second paragraph

trump is trying to eliminate legal means for people of color.

Not true at all.  I know hispanics and Haitians coming her legally right NOW to get their citizenship.  Cyclist, are you in the Gainesville area?  You will see and have more friends with people of color if you are down here in South Florida and get more of an idea of what people go through, legally and illegally

Cyclist

2amigo said:

Cyclist said:

2amigo said:

Cyclist said:

An illegal immigrant is a person who strives to work very very very hard for below norm pay and harsh degrading conditions to provide for his/her family and who left conditions that put him/her and the family in danger, via poverty, gang warfare, etc.

An employer of illegal immigrants is a scofflaw who strives to use and abuse people via poor working conditions and poverty wages who are under duress because they were forces to leave notorious conditions of poverty and violence to protect their families. These scofflaws are looking for personal monetary reward at the expense of human beings that are striving to protect the health of their families and at the expense of paying living wages and treating people fairly and like human beings.  

Then the illegal immigrant needs to come here the legal way like the rest who came here legally.  Then they won't be taken advantage of.  Supporting that they are here illegally basically supports the system you are speaking of in your second paragraph

trump is trying to eliminate legal means for people of color.

Not true at all.  I know hispanics and Haitians coming her legally right NOW to get their citizenship. 

That is because all his anti-immigration stuff is tied up in court as being anti Constitutional. He has not gotten his way....yet.

Tarponator

Mexico The US Military will pay for the wall.

You can't make this stuff up.

Cyclist

Tarponator said:

Mexico The US Military will pay for the wall.

You can't make this stuff up.

amerika!