Get Sugar Off Our Land

13

Replies

  • SnookMan772SnookMan772 Posts: 661 Officer

    Thank you!!!

    https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/environment/article224239310.html

    Bold moves, and I love it! Time for the SFWMD to get overhauled and next we need to look at the role the USACOE plays next.

  • pottydocpottydoc The thriving metropolis of Umatilla Posts: 3,553 Captain
    Good luck trying to change what the Corp is doing. They 
  • FloridaODFloridaOD Posts: 3,494 Captain
    South Florida future population “ Projections”, and Politician inclination to serve this “ Inevitable” influx, along with stupid residents/ constituents will clearly define “ Everglades Restoration”........ less and less references to “ System”.
    Art Marshall predicted this in personal conversation.
    Hunters are present yet relatively uncommon in Florida :wink
  • FS BlairFS Blair Posts: 1,764 Admin
    David B said:
    9 million folks living below the southern end of the lake. Two man dredged canals leading vessels and water to each coast and a slew of canals dredged along the coasts within a short boat ride to the again man-made openings off of the beach. But somehow it is always Big Sugar and agricultures fault. 
    From what I have read, some folks would be hard pressed to believe that water flows off of their rooftops onto the ground. Much like the water flows into the lake bringing with it nutrients and all. Building another cesspool, err, reservoir to hold the sludge isn't doing anyone any favors. 
    How many of y'all drive by one of the 1250 plus golf courses in this state on your daily commutes? How many of y'all live in a community with a landscaped entrance and lush green lawns adorned with beautiful shrubbery? 
    How many of y'all drive down a stretch of road with a landscaped median or adjacent right of ways?
    But I'll could be inclined to agree somewhat. How many vehicles are being driven by the nearly 21 million folks residing here. Where does all of that automotive fluid leakage go from Orlando moving southernly?
    Another levee to maintain, another water level to be concerned with flooding folks. Another chunk of the Everglades turned into a storage facility, all the while property values and recreation along the coasts are doing just fine. 
    At whose expense? What is the totality of costs? When and where will it end? 

    I know you posted this a while ago, but I'd like to respond.  We all clearly contribute to our state's water quality issues.  But some of us contribute a lot more than others.  Golf courses more than residences and ag farms more than golf courses.  Big Sugar more than anyone else.  But, they have the biggest straw in the Lake and require billions of gallons of water, plus they need land/canals/STA's to pump water to when their fields need draining.  

    Big Sugar has historically called the shots on how much water needs to be in the lake, and how much capacity is in the system so they can drain the Lake.  Everything else in the system reacts to these decisions. 

    For the last 30-years the estuaries have been sent an average of 300 Billion gallons of water a year.  Each year.  That's impact. 

    Watch how nice the St. Lucie estuary gets this year if we don't get discharges.  We still have all the development and septic systems.  But, without the discharges the estuary is going to look like Jupiter or Ft. Pierce.....or the Bahamas. 
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 10,751 AG
    so where does the water in the lake come from?
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • FS BlairFS Blair Posts: 1,764 Admin
    ANUMBER1 said:
    so where does the water in the lake come from?
    I expect you're asking where the polluted water comes from.  See the graphics I've posted, it's pretty telling.
    BMP's, Best Management Practices don't work.  Unfortunately we need regulations and enforcement.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 10,751 AG
    Pretty sure the head of the glades is Shingle Creek bout 1/2 mile south of International Dr.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 10,751 AG
    Unless they backpump Big Sugar has very little to do with it..  Right?
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • saltyseniorsaltysenior Posts: 868 Officer
    what form of agriculture produces all the phosphorus they blame on agriculture ???????  
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 10,751 AG
    Blair just likes easy targets instead of the real hard questions and answers,
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • Big Sugar was a problem, not anymore. 
    History
    1. Corp decides to make the Kissimmee River a barge Canal, bypassing all the oxbows and wetlands that filtered all the incoming water.
    2. Hurricane Katrin hits, making levves unsafe under the new Katrin Design Standards, forcing the Corp to rebuild the levees and lower the allowable high water mark.
    3. Micky mouse craps up all our southflowing water.
    4. SFWMD builds thousands of acres of Stormwater Treatment areas, AKA mickey mouse poop cleaners.
    5. 2 miles wide development along east coast turns into 25 mile wide development with contributing runoff.

    Blue-Green algae is discharged every time water gets too high in the Lake, Right now its pretty low and the algae count can sit there and cook for a while.
  • FS BlairFS Blair Posts: 1,764 Admin
    what form of agriculture produces all the phosphorus they blame on agriculture ???????  

    From what I understand most of the nutrients coming from land just north of the Lake comes from cattle and dairy.  
  • FS BlairFS Blair Posts: 1,764 Admin
    ANUMBER1 said:
    Blair just likes easy targets instead of the real hard questions and answers,
    No, that's not true.  I'll do my best to answer any question to the best of my ability.  
  • FS BlairFS Blair Posts: 1,764 Admin
    Big Sugar was a problem, not anymore. 
    History
    1. Corp decides to make the Kissimmee River a barge Canal, bypassing all the oxbows and wetlands that filtered all the incoming water.
    2. Hurricane Katrin hits, making levves unsafe under the new Katrin Design Standards, forcing the Corp to rebuild the levees and lower the allowable high water mark.
    3. Micky mouse craps up all our southflowing water.
    4. SFWMD builds thousands of acres of Stormwater Treatment areas, AKA mickey mouse poop cleaners.
    5. 2 miles wide development along east coast turns into 25 mile wide development with contributing runoff.

    Blue-Green algae is discharged every time water gets too high in the Lake, Right now its pretty low and the algae count can sit there and cook for a while.

    Sugar still dictates how water is used and stored in the system.   They are very much still in control of how much water is stored in the Lake, which generally is too much water and which is the root cause of the toxic discharges.  Unchecked growth in Florida is clearly bad and something Florida Sportsman should fight against.  But, if you're someone who enjoys Florida's remaining outdoors you'll fight for getting special interests (ag, sugar, dairy and land developers) out of water management.
  • saltyseniorsaltysenior Posts: 868 Officer
    FS Blair said:
    Big Sugar was a problem, not anymore. 
    History
    1. Corp decides to make the Kissimmee River a barge Canal, bypassing all the oxbows and wetlands that filtered all the incoming water.
    2. Hurricane Katrin hits, making levves unsafe under the new Katrin Design Standards, forcing the Corp to rebuild the levees and lower the allowable high water mark.
    3. Micky mouse craps up all our southflowing water.
    4. SFWMD builds thousands of acres of Stormwater Treatment areas, AKA mickey mouse poop cleaners.
    5. 2 miles wide development along east coast turns into 25 mile wide development with contributing runoff.

    Blue-Green algae is discharged every time water gets too high in the Lake, Right now its pretty low and the algae count can sit there and cook for a while.

    Sugar still dictates how water is used and stored in the system.   They are very much still in control of how much water is stored in the Lake, which generally is too much water and which is the root cause of the toxic discharges.  Unchecked growth in Florida is clearly bad and something Florida Sportsman should fight against.  But, if you're someone who enjoys Florida's remaining outdoors you'll fight for getting special interests (ag, sugar, dairy and land developers) out of water management.
    so you claim there are toxic discharges.....do you think the Indians or a National Park are going to accept ''Toxic" water?? 
  • saltyseniorsaltysenior Posts: 868 Officer
    Big Sugar was a problem, not anymore. 
    History
    1. Corp decides to make the Kissimmee River a barge Canal, bypassing all the oxbows and wetlands that filtered all the incoming water.
    2. Hurricane Katrin hits, making levves unsafe under the new Katrin Design Standards, forcing the Corp to rebuild the levees and lower the allowable high water mark.
    3. Micky mouse craps up all our southflowing water.
    4. SFWMD builds thousands of acres of Stormwater Treatment areas, AKA mickey mouse poop cleaners.
    5. 2 miles wide development along east coast turns into 25 mile wide development with contributing runoff.

    Blue-Green algae is discharged every time water gets too high in the Lake, Right now its pretty low and the algae count can sit there and cook for a while.
    about history.....when it was mentioned years ago that the Kissimme River would be restored to it's original form, but at tax payers expense, I began to research why it was channelized .... at first one reason that showed up was to insure the proper drainage for an area that would attract Disney....thru the years that reason has vanished and just about all who would know are now gone....
  • gvillewillgvillewill Posts: 14 Greenhorn
    Let the muck flood again and grow rice
  • FS BlairFS Blair Posts: 1,764 Admin
    FS Blair said:
    Big Sugar was a problem, not anymore. 
    History
    1. Corp decides to make the Kissimmee River a barge Canal, bypassing all the oxbows and wetlands that filtered all the incoming water.
    2. Hurricane Katrin hits, making levves unsafe under the new Katrin Design Standards, forcing the Corp to rebuild the levees and lower the allowable high water mark.
    3. Micky mouse craps up all our southflowing water.
    4. SFWMD builds thousands of acres of Stormwater Treatment areas, AKA mickey mouse poop cleaners.
    5. 2 miles wide development along east coast turns into 25 mile wide development with contributing runoff.

    Blue-Green algae is discharged every time water gets too high in the Lake, Right now its pretty low and the algae count can sit there and cook for a while.

    Sugar still dictates how water is used and stored in the system.   They are very much still in control of how much water is stored in the Lake, which generally is too much water and which is the root cause of the toxic discharges.  Unchecked growth in Florida is clearly bad and something Florida Sportsman should fight against.  But, if you're someone who enjoys Florida's remaining outdoors you'll fight for getting special interests (ag, sugar, dairy and land developers) out of water management.
    so you claim there are toxic discharges.....do you think the Indians or a National Park are going to accept ''Toxic" water?? 
    No, you're right there's law that protects polluted water from flowing into ENP, but not our estuaries.  So....we need to get Sugar's water out of our state owned STA's so we can treat Lake water and send it south.
  • FreeLinerFreeLiner Posts: 1,573 Captain
    Has the FWC or anyone else ever measured the change in P before and after all the vegetation decays from spraying?  The phosphorus from decay has to go somewhere.
  • 1outlaw1outlaw Naples FLPosts: 1,162 Officer
    FreeLiner said:
    Has the FWC or anyone else ever measured the change in P before and after all the vegetation decays from spraying?  The phosphorus from decay has to go somewhere.
    FWC isnt going to check itself! 

    Jason :USA
  • MRichardsonMRichardson Posts: 9,525 Admiral
    I'm sure they've given a contract to someone to look into it and come back with the desired results.
    I have never seen live bones, but I know that they are often used by rich people to decorate the interior.
  • retiredviejoretiredviejo San PedroPosts: 274 Deckhand
    FS Blair said:
    Big Sugar was a problem, not anymore. 
    History
    1. Corp decides to make the Kissimmee River a barge Canal, bypassing all the oxbows and wetlands that filtered all the incoming water.
    2. Hurricane Katrin hits, making levves unsafe under the new Katrin Design Standards, forcing the Corp to rebuild the levees and lower the allowable high water mark.
    3. Micky mouse craps up all our southflowing water.
    4. SFWMD builds thousands of acres of Stormwater Treatment areas, AKA mickey mouse poop cleaners.
    5. 2 miles wide development along east coast turns into 25 mile wide development with contributing runoff.

    Blue-Green algae is discharged every time water gets too high in the Lake, Right now its pretty low and the algae count can sit there and cook for a while.

    Sugar still dictates how water is used and stored in the system.   They are very much still in control of how much water is stored in the Lake, which generally is too much water and which is the root cause of the toxic discharges.  Unchecked growth in Florida is clearly bad and something Florida Sportsman should fight against.  But, if you're someone who enjoys Florida's remaining outdoors you'll fight for getting special interests (ag, sugar, dairy and land developers) out of water management.
    The only way to get rid of big sugar is to eliminate their price subsidies, that of course Congress provides and taxpayers pay. Big sugar would cease to exist if they had to sell sugar on the open market at market prices. 

    But hey, we've got a $21 trillion dollar deficit, what's a few more dollars every year for the billionaire brothers? Those lobbyists ain't cheap!!!!

    Get some honest people in Washington and educate the voters. Two things unfortunately that will never happen. 
  • MRichardsonMRichardson Posts: 9,525 Admiral
    Launching an assault on the properties and proprietors of Big Sugar with weapons and burning their facilities, homes, and families to the ground would be more likely than getting honest politicians or educated voters. 
    I have never seen live bones, but I know that they are often used by rich people to decorate the interior.
  • retiredviejoretiredviejo San PedroPosts: 274 Deckhand
    Meant to say "debt" not "deficit". But definitely agree MR.
  • Sorry Blair, you have been wrong on most of this thread.

    With our current SFWMD executive board, Big Sug has very little input on water storage in the lake! Oh and hasn't in many years.

    This is controlled by US Army Corp of Engineers and the last decade has been all about Post Katrina Levee Design Standards
  • I kinda like how someone who edits a magazine think he has more knowledge than those that work in this field every day.

    Blair, I don't try to tell you how to run a magazine as I guess you are better at it than me. Try to extend the same courtesy.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 10,751 AG
    edited July 2019 #90
    it's big sugars fault... right?
    right?
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • TideRyderTideRyder Posts: 19 Greenhorn
    ANumber1, what is that a photo of? 
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