Get Sugar Off Our Land

24

Replies

  • TheNSBkidTheNSBkid Boca RatonPosts: 60 Greenhorn
    You guys have no idea what the final plan  is for Sugar Land when the subsidies go away.

    It will be one of the biggest residential developments in the entire state of Florida!

    Some day you guys are gonna wish for sugar farming vs what we are going to get.
    I might be wrong about this but, all land in Florida is subdivided into types of land, (commercial, residential, agricultural, etc.) Residential is much harder to get and the land must meet certain criteria such as if is a floodplain (EAA is), the type of soil, Etc. Is there any proof that you can show that after the land is no longer occupied by the few large sugar companies that it will become residential plots?
  • Soda PopinskiSoda Popinski GrovelandPosts: 11,226 AG
    You guys have no idea what the final plan  is for Sugar Land when the subsidies go away.

    It will be one of the biggest residential developments in the entire state of Florida!

    Some day you guys are gonna wish for sugar farming vs what we are going to get.
    The Villages 2.0 now with more people
    People use statistics the way a drunk uses a street light, for support rather than illumination.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 10,551 AG
    TheNSBkid said:
    You guys have no idea what the final plan  is for Sugar Land when the subsidies go away.

    It will be one of the biggest residential developments in the entire state of Florida!

    Some day you guys are gonna wish for sugar farming vs what we are going to get.
    I might be wrong about this but, all land in Florida is subdivided into types of land, (commercial, residential, agricultural, etc.) Residential is much harder to get and the land must meet certain criteria such as if is a floodplain (EAA is), the type of soil, Etc. Is there any proof that you can show that after the land is no longer occupied by the few large sugar companies that it will become residential plots?
    could happen, this probably will..

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/jan/30/from-book-to-boom-how-the-mormons-plan-a-city-for-500000-in-florida
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • Soda PopinskiSoda Popinski GrovelandPosts: 11,226 AG
    clermont turned a sand mine into residential and called it waterside point.  i'm going to laugh when the houses sink
    People use statistics the way a drunk uses a street light, for support rather than illumination.
  • Reel TealReel Teal Posts: 3,856 Captain
    Southeast florida from jupiter Miami is practically built on a wetland. What makes you think they wont drain, bring in dirt, and make it residential like they have done just about everywhere in Florida? Someone is going to have to work at the tourist attractions that will surround the Okeechobee Resivoir in a few years. Their house gotta be built somewhere 
  • TheNSBkidTheNSBkid Boca RatonPosts: 60 Greenhorn
    Reel Teal said:
    Southeast florida from jupiter Miami is practically built on a wetland. What makes you think they wont drain, bring in dirt, and make it residential like they have done just about everywhere in Florida? Someone is going to have to work at the tourist attractions that will surround the Okeechobee Resivoir in a few years. Their house gotta be built somewhere 
    It's a shame but I agree with you, Instead of trying to preserve or protect, they will modify to satify the growing population.
  • pottydocpottydoc The thriving metropolis of Umatilla Posts: 3,496 Captain
    Here we go, another “I got my piece of Florida paridise, now don’t let anyone else in” ****. 
  • Soda PopinskiSoda Popinski GrovelandPosts: 11,226 AG
    pottydoc said:
    Here we go, another “I got my piece of Florida paridise, now don’t let anyone else in” ****. 
    Followed by a "got any land you need hunted?"
    People use statistics the way a drunk uses a street light, for support rather than illumination.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 10,551 AG
    pottydoc said:
    Here we go, another “I got my piece of Florida paridise, now don’t let anyone else in” ****. 
    Followed by a "got any land you need hunted?"
    lol, and they trespassed to offroad, build bonfires, and felony hunt on all that land.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • FloridaODFloridaOD Posts: 3,451 Captain
    edited September 2018 #42
    “ Sector Plan” process well established for Lake O perimeter and adjacent.
    No wonder Art Marshall Flow Way, Governor Christ 180,000 acre Deal bogged down in receding Muck.
    When Far Westerly Sector Plan initially unveiled, one big wig state enviro leader announced via email: “ Here we go!”..... assuming the process would be simply one of many maneuvers not so dangerous.
    This is prelude to Regional Development Accomodation far and above what is experienced now, per what Ron .38 Special sputters. More like .44 Magnum 340 Grain +P+.
    See too what Nancy Peyton and the Florida Wildlife Federation have dealt with in cases such as Immokolee Farm Labds proposed development and other Sourh Dlorida regional/ county land use plans that have touched FWCC Commissioner and other key Players.
    Sector Plan proceedings promoters dealt easily and effectively with public participation and enviro organization input, and apparently most here.

    Hunters are present yet relatively uncommon in Florida :wink
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 10,551 AG
    FloridaOD said:
    “ Sector Plan” process well established for Lake O perimeter and adjacent.
    No wonder Art Marshall Flow Way, Governor Christ 180,000 acre Deal bogged down in receding Muck.
    When Far Westerly Sector Plan initially unveiled, one big wig state enviro leader announced via email: “ Here we go!”..... assuming the process would be simply one of many maneuvers not so dangerous.
    This is prelude to Regional Development Accomodation far and above what is experienced now, per what Ron .38 Special sputters. More like .44 Magnum 340 Grain +P+.
    See too what Nancy Peyton and the Florida Wildlife Federation have dealt with in cases such as Immokolee Farm Labds proposed development and other Sourh Dlorida regional/ county land use plans that have touched FWCC Commissioner and other key Players.
    Sector Plan proceedings promoters dealt easily and effectively with public participation and enviro organization input, and apparently most here.

    English please
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • FloridaODFloridaOD Posts: 3,451 Captain
    edited September 2018 #44
    ANUMBER1 said:
    FloridaOD said:
    “ Sector Plan” process well established for Lake O perimeter and adjacent.
    No wonder Art Marshall Flow Way, Governor Christ 180,000 acre Deal bogged down in receding Muck.
    When Far Westerly Sector Plan initially unveiled, one big wig state enviro leader announced via email: “ Here we go!”..... assuming the process would be simply one of many maneuvers not so dangerous.
    This is prelude to Regional Development Accomodation far and above what is experienced now, per what Ron .38 Special sputters. More like .44 Magnum 340 Grain +P+.
    See too what Nancy Peyton and the Florida Wildlife Federation have dealt with in cases such as Immokolee Farm Labds proposed development and other Sourh Dlorida regional/ county land use plans that have touched FWCC Commissioner and other key Players.
    Sector Plan proceedings promoters dealt easily and effectively with public participation and enviro organization input, and apparently most here.

    English please
    This will be clearer to some:
    Boobala Stoppa South Flow Way Yababba maka more more reservoir yea mon yea man make lakeO more be high more be high teaming yea mon Da’ Florida Sportsman mon not be able to Jive with da ahive Increase Lake O Capcity Build more Compartments|Reservoirs , Skip Christ Sugarlabd Deal until we be done there dead and don’t forget to represent Soukth Florida Sportsmen by speaking “ undulu boobala bombastic Bubba”. Low er case. As be being small letters, a small percentage of Florida population, we dun did undulu boobala Bubba Home Run Dang Nabbit.
    Not to even mention a Dialytical Trynaxis Of The Fourth Floway Study, and video of “ Quiet” Air Boat prop and a Rabbit Hunting tour on GGGGGGGWen Graham Everglades lands slated to become Mall lands and past Graham County Planning files.....Filzzzzzzz
    Hunters are present yet relatively uncommon in Florida :wink
  • pottydocpottydoc The thriving metropolis of Umatilla Posts: 3,496 Captain
    Nope, not any clearer. It’s just as unreadable as your original post.
  • surfmansurfman WC FLPosts: 5,981 Admiral
    I'm glad we cleared that up...
    Tight Lines, Steve
    My posts are my opinion only.

    Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.  Will Rogers
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 10,551 AG
    drugs r bad..k?\

    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • lemaymiamilemaymiami Posts: 3,475 Captain
    This topic is too important to fool around with... We need to reach a consensus then go after whoever is in charge after the election is over - just when whoever wins will be wanting to forget any promises made... To bring things even more closely into focus - we also ought to be really working anyone with a fishing show in production - and get them on the record regarding water quality issues...
    Tight Lines
    Bob LeMay
    (954) 435-5666
  • FloridaODFloridaOD Posts: 3,451 Captain
    edited October 2018 #49
    So the Everglades Trust has come forward with an endorsement.
    And, per usual, the endorsed candidate and endorsement is under attack.
    At least we are not faced with a Graham family candidate involved with a development “ on the edge of the Everglades”...... which in fact is smack dab within former Glades.....subject development defended by virtue of “ passing” state development process.....
    This current political cycle, “ Environment “ takes a supposedly high profile not previously in play.Who can imagine Amendment One should be a part of the campaign discourse?.....
    No matter which candidate takes the Governor’s Mansion, it appears The Glades and Florida’s “ Environment “ will benefit.Or simply, effectively  ignored.
    Too bad Karl Wickstrohm and Art Marshall, Johnny Jones are not here to post on this forum.Or maybe they would not, and if they did, the content and influence ignored.
    Onward-
    Hunters are present yet relatively uncommon in Florida :wink
  • aimlowaimlow Stuart? MaybePosts: 17 Greenhorn
    Old thread, but I'm new and I'll dredge it up.

    While Big Sugar is dispicable and worthy of criticism, the BIG problem is Army Corps of Engineers (acoe).  Sure, big sugar has altered the natural flow-way thru the glades, but they actually contribute few pollutants to Lake O. Why?  The 'glades are several feet BELOW Lake O.

    The problem comes down the Kissimmee River.  Starts with "the mouse" in Orlando, picks up additional pollutants/nutrients along the river, dumps into the NW corner of the lake.

    The acoe (caps intentionally deleted in disrespect) moves at the speed of smell.  The are military, and could care less what civilians (politicians) think.  All these political promises of "cleaning the lake" are nothing but lip service.

    Big sugar?  There are 2 brothers (you know who).  One supports the blue side, one supports the red side.  Politicians on both sides are bought and owned.  These guys ain't dumb.
  • SnookMan772SnookMan772 Posts: 661 Officer
    edited December 2018 #51
    aimlow said:
    Old thread, but I'm new and I'll dredge it up.

    While Big Sugar is dispicable and worthy of criticism, the BIG problem is Army Corps of Engineers (acoe).  Sure, big sugar has altered the natural flow-way thru the glades, but they actually contribute few pollutants to Lake O. Why?  The 'glades are several feet BELOW Lake O.

    The problem comes down the Kissimmee River.  Starts with "the mouse" in Orlando, picks up additional pollutants/nutrients along the river, dumps into the NW corner of the lake.

    The acoe (caps intentionally deleted in disrespect) moves at the speed of smell.  The are military, and could care less what civilians (politicians) think.  All these political promises of "cleaning the lake" are nothing but lip service.

    Big sugar?  There are 2 brothers (you know who).  One supports the blue side, one supports the red side.  Politicians on both sides are bought and owned.  These guys ain't dumb.

    I'm also from Stuart and 100% agree with you. However, lets not forget that Big Sugar also does this thing called "Back pumping" taking super nutrient loaded water off of their farm lands and pump it back north into the lake regardless of it begin several feet below the lake. They pump it back into the lake further testing the dikes strength and risking loss of life just to keep their precious fields dry just so they can produce government subsidized sugar at a cost higher than we can import it in for. Smart! Before the rest of the paid cronies join in, YES this happens, it is NOT a one time event or rare event like the wet winter of 2016, it happens almost every year and several times throughout the year in those years to the turn of billions upon billions of gallons of water.. It's facts. How many turds need to be in the punch bowl before you stop drinking it? One or does it take many? Same premise, but I'm in total agreement with you on this. 
  • SnookMan772SnookMan772 Posts: 661 Officer

    Let's not forget this recent scientific advancement either.

    For USGS scientists, an important unanswered question was at what point lake algae, which can be good for fish, turned toxic as it traveled to coastal waters. So in 2016, after state investigators confirmed that toxins called cyanobacteria in the St. Lucie estuary and the Indian River Lagoon had likely come from the lake, USGS launched a project to examine how two types of cynobacteria interacted with brackish estuary water.

    During a bloom last year, USGS researchers scooped up algae from Eagle Bay on the lake’s north side and over four days exposed it to different concentrations of sodium chloride “simulating what it would be like if the organism were moving down through saltier water,” Rosen said.

    As salt increased, they found membranes lining the cell walls of the algae began to break down, releasing toxins. At levels about half as salty as ocean water, the most common of the two algae began releasing toxins.


    Once again, thank you Big Sugar "not a primary source of the problem, but a primary road block for a solution" for occupying the land south of the lake so we are forced to send the water in unnatural directions east and west thus allowing this naturally occurring algae to mix unnaturally with salt water and creating this ongoing yearly crisis!

  • SnookMan772SnookMan772 Posts: 661 Officer

    Last but not least, we also cannot forget this recent move of the SFWMD.

    https://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/local/indian-river-lagoon/health/2018/11/29/conservation-group-riverkeeper-challenge-lease-eaa-reservoir-land/2147153002/

    Dirty last minute deals with the SFWMD, great people.

    No prior notice

    Consideration of the lease was added to the board's online agenda about 12 hours before the 9:30 a.m. meeting began at the University of Miami in Coral Gables.

    Florida law regulating water management districts requires publishing a "notice of intention to lease" in a newspaper for three consecutive weeks starting at least 30 days and no more than 90 days before the board executes the lease.

    Nice to hear they have plans of a south reservoir though.

    Completing the project will take about eight years: two to three years to complete the design and another five to build it.

    The lease allows Florida Crystals to grow sugarcane on the entire site for 20 months. After that, the state can take land — with four months' notice — on a "field by field" basis as it is needed for building the reservoir.


    Better keep those fields dry for at least another 20 months! More back pumping and discharged to the east and west ahead! God forbid their fields ever flood..

  • aimlowaimlow Stuart? MaybePosts: 17 Greenhorn

    I'm also from Stuart and 100% agree with you. However, lets not forget that Big Sugar also does this thing called "Back pumping" taking super nutrient loaded water off of their farm lands and pump it back north into the lake regardless of it begin several feet below the lake. They pump it back into the lake further testing the dikes strength and risking loss of life just to keep their precious fields dry just so they can produce government subsidized sugar at a cost higher than we can import it in for. Smart! Before the rest of the paid cronies join in, YES this happens, it is NOT a one time event or rare event like the wet winter of 2016, it happens almost every year and several times throughout the year in those years to the turn of billions upon billions of gallons of water.. It's facts. How many turds need to be in the punch bowl before you stop drinking it? One or does it take many? Same premise, but I'm in total agreement with you on this. 
    No argument.  Back pumping does add nutrients, but has little effect on lake water levels.  There are activists who constantly threaten to blow up back pumping operations.  I'd comment, but I'm afraid a favorable response would be construed as supporting violence, which I don't....

    It only takes one Baby Ruth in a swimming pool to cause problems....
  • aimlowaimlow Stuart? MaybePosts: 17 Greenhorn

    Once again, thank you Big Sugar "not a primary source of the problem, but a primary road block for a solution" for occupying the land south of the lake so we are forced to send the water in unnatural directions east and west thus allowing this naturally occurring algae to mix unnaturally with salt water and creating this ongoing yearly crisis!

    Perfect!  THIS is the point most people miss.


    I have noticed big sugar is creeping our way into western Martin County.

  • YakAddictYakAddict Posts: 55 Greenhorn
    I can only hope that the environmental catastrophes, courtesy of the U.S. and Florida state,county and local politicians - along with greedy agribusiness and developers - don't decimate the few remaining areas of Florida that today are relatively pristine.
  • Last but not least, we also cannot forget this recent move of the SFWMD.

    https://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/local/indian-river-lagoon/health/2018/11/29/conservation-group-riverkeeper-challenge-lease-eaa-reservoir-land/2147153002/

    Dirty last minute deals with the SFWMD, great people.

    No prior notice

    Consideration of the lease was added to the board's online agenda about 12 hours before the 9:30 a.m. meeting began at the University of Miami in Coral Gables.

    Florida law regulating water management districts requires publishing a "notice of intention to lease" in a newspaper for three consecutive weeks starting at least 30 days and no more than 90 days before the board executes the lease.

    Nice to hear they have plans of a south reservoir though.

    Completing the project will take about eight years: two to three years to complete the design and another five to build it.

    The lease allows Florida Crystals to grow sugarcane on the entire site for 20 months. After that, the state can take land — with four months' notice — on a "field by field" basis as it is needed for building the reservoir.


    Better keep those fields dry for at least another 20 months! More back pumping and discharged to the east and west ahead! God forbid their fields ever flood..

    This is a great deal! State get paid while the sugar crop  keeps the land cleared saving millions on clearing costs prior to reservoir construction.

    Four months is plenty of notice since it takes much longer to plan, design, and bid the contract for reservoir construction.

    Oh and lets not forget that most of this land was under construction as the EAA reservoir in early to mid 2000's. Environ groups sued and a federal judge stopped the construction of something like 25% of the reservoir would be operational.

    And also remember reservoirs dont clean the water so you have to build thousands of acres of Stormwater Treatment areas to clean the water.

    So while we wait 10-15 years for an operational system, lets attack pollution at the source, North of the lake. Darily Farms, Septic Tanks, land farming sewage sludge, Increased population ans subsequent nutrient discharges from those activities.

    Oh and the fact about backpumping is that the volume is minuscule and the quality of the water being backpumped is cleaner than what is coming in from the North thru the Kissimmee river. FACT!

    If we keep focusing on Big Sugar and keep letting Mickey Mouse off the hook, we are doomed,
    Get educated about the everglades and sort thru the BS enviro groups for the one that understands the Everglades. I haven't found that one yet.

    But if you don't trust my opinion, I can show letters to the editor I wrote in 1960's about the lack of protection for the everglades.
  • David BDavid B Posts: 1,907 Captain
    9 million folks living below the southern end of the lake. Two man dredged canals leading vessels and water to each coast and a slew of canals dredged along the coasts within a short boat ride to the again man-made openings off of the beach. But somehow it is always Big Sugar and agricultures fault. 
    From what I have read, some folks would be hard pressed to believe that water flows off of their rooftops onto the ground. Much like the water flows into the lake bringing with it nutrients and all. Building another cesspool, err, reservoir to hold the sludge isn't doing anyone any favors. 
    How many of y'all drive by one of the 1250 plus golf courses in this state on your daily commutes? How many of y'all live in a community with a landscaped entrance and lush green lawns adorned with beautiful shrubbery? 
    How many of y'all drive down a stretch of road with a landscaped median or adjacent right of ways?
    But I'll could be inclined to agree somewhat. How many vehicles are being driven by the nearly 21 million folks residing here. Where does all of that automotive fluid leakage go from Orlando moving southernly?
    Another levee to maintain, another water level to be concerned with flooding folks. Another chunk of the Everglades turned into a storage facility, all the while property values and recreation along the coasts are doing just fine. 
    At whose expense? What is the totality of costs? When and where will it end? 

    Increasing MMGW or climate change, one twist off at a time.
  • mannn123mannn123 Posts: 133 Deckhand
    I'll add, how many of us have a boat with an outboard?  or keep your own yard green?

    Despite the finger pointing at the usual suspects, I would guess very, very few of the people on here are not living in the proverbial glass house to some degree or another...
  • MRichardsonMRichardson Posts: 9,324 Admiral
    I'm not convinced 5K people in consensus about this would offset 1 developer with $1M to donate...

    This is FL.  Accept that it is a playground that is going to be destroyed, and plan out your options from there.

    It's funny to call people out about not wanting newcomers to arrive after they've got their spot here already, but the fact that it's not fair, or seems hypocritical is moot.  There is only so much space.  There are already too many people here.. the fact that I was lucky enough to be here doesn't mean I must welcome the onslaught of newcomers.  

    We're full.  Yeah I was lucky to get here before you.  It's not fair, I know.
    Go the $%^& somewhere else. 
    I have never seen live bones, but I know that they are often used by rich people to decorate the interior.
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