18'9 v.s 20'11

smallblock342smallblock342 Posts: 36 Greenhorn
I've been a long time lurker on this forum and actively looking to buy either an 189 or 2011. Not sure if I'm going new or used. Ride quality in rough water conditions is a main concern of mine. I've ridden on an 189 and ride is surperb but is it really worth it for the extra money to go the 2011 route. I know the 2011 has a pad that may hurt performance regarding rough water but overall running surface is comparable to a 23 center console
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Replies

  • 91tiger91tiger Posts: 536 Officer
    I currently own a 20'11" and had a 189 before the current skiff. The ride is unquestionably better with the 2011 over a 189 which is already famous for it's ride. I disagree with the statement that the pad decreases the rough water capabilities on the 2011. The pad provides lift up around 42 mph where you are up on top of the chop rather than pushing through it. Flats boy (who has also had both hulls) described it as a magic carpet feel and it's a good description. Obviously it can get so rough that you can't get up on top and fly across like that. Those days you have to slow down and let that sharp front entry do it's job. But it has to be really rough for this. At that point I can't tell a big difference in the ride of the 189 and the 2011.

    The ability to use a jack plate with the 2011 is another really nice feature that doesn't get mentioned often. It really gives the 2011 unbelievable shallow running capabilities. I normally run my motor 2.5 inches up on the jack plate and can fully trim it at wide open throttle. I can also run the motor up 5.5 inches on the jack plate and still trim to 4 bars on the trim guage. There is very very little skeg below the hull line in this situation.

    I would highly recommend riding in both then deciding. Both are great. Don't plan to do any significant poling with the 2011...but I always considered both a trolling motor boat.
  • smallblock342smallblock342 Posts: 36 Greenhorn
    Thanks for the response. Ive only read about the 2011 and have never been on one. I know on larger center consoles that sometimes a running pad can hurt performance when running rough water because it takes away just a little bit of stern dead rise because it flattens it rather than making it a v shape. Like on the moccasin the very bottom of the keel is flat which aids in faster plaining times and running shallower. Running shallow isn't important to me, if it was id be looking at a hells bay or hpx. Anyone, in my opinion, that is looking to buy an egret isn't really worried about poling. What I want to hear is "night and day difference", as you said "unquestionably" which sells me on the 2011
  • 91tiger91tiger Posts: 536 Officer
    See if you can get Flatsboy's opinion too. He has had a 189, 2011 and currently owns a moccasin. I'm all about fishability and versatility because I do a ton of different types of fishing from the Carolina's to the Keys. Phil is more of a performance enthusiast than I am.
  • FlatsBoyFlatsBoy Posts: 1,305 Officer
    I owned a 189 & 2011 for three year each and now a 210 Moccasin.
    The ride difference between the 189 and 2011 is very different due to the added length and pad running bottom the 2011 has.
    With that said the 2011 gets up on the pad between 43 & 45 mph once your on the pad it runs on top of the chop more than the 189 due to the added lift. The 189 is still rides well but the 2011 will air out more due to the pad and speed it achieves from the added HP. It is a night and day riding difference from the 189 that is why I originally bought it along with the added speed of a 250. It was a great boat and was the fastest one ever built.



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3hzponTZfY

    I parted with it due to I started fishing more offshore for pelagics. The 2011 smaller cockpit and larger decks made it more confined to get around the boat in the open ocean fighting and storing fish.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msyU6lj_oAo

    The Moccasin stand up console cockpit layout and live well configurations is what sold me on the boat plus the shallower draft from the 2011 and how easy it runs on plane at slow speeds. I gave up the speed since I didn't tournament fish for a more conducive fishing layout yes that is a 160 yetti as a coffin box for fish for me personally a better all around boat.



    I would still own the 2011 if it wasn't for the Moccasin layout hope this helps. Do yourself a favor and go ride one to see for yourself. That will determine if it's the boat for you.
  • smallblock342smallblock342 Posts: 36 Greenhorn
    thanks for the response flatsboy. I remember seeing your boat for sale a year or so ago. Really liked the custom leaning post you had on it. I cant imagine running 43-45 in rough water conditions (Honest 3 foot chop). Both your boats look great. I live in fort Lauderdale and would love to take a ride on a 21 to see/feel the real difference from the 18. A buddy of mine that posts on here (flatwaterwitch) described to me that the 21 rides just a little better, that there's no where that the 21 could go that the 18 cant. And at the end of the day if you look at the weather forecast and they are predicting 4 foot seas off shore who really would want to go out in those conditions anyways, even if you have a 25 foot center console. I've gotten two rough build sheets from frank and it looks like the 21 is going to be roughly 15-20k more than an 18 with the way I want it rigged. Keep the responses coming.
  • Egrets LandingEgrets Landing Posts: 935 Officer
    thanks for the response flatsboy. I remember seeing your boat for sale a year or so ago. Really liked the custom leaning post you had on it. I cant imagine running 43-45 in rough water conditions (Honest 3 foot chop). Both your boats look great. I live in fort Lauderdale and would love to take a ride on a 21 to see/feel the real difference from the 18. A buddy of mine that posts on here (flatwaterwitch) described to me that the 21 rides just a little better, that there's no where that the 21 could go that the 18 cant. And at the end of the day if you look at the weather forecast and they are predicting 4 foot seas off shore who really would want to go out in those conditions anyways, even if you have a 25 foot center console. I've gotten two rough build sheets from frank and it looks like the 21 is going to be roughly 15-20k more than an 18 with the way I want it rigged. Keep the responses coming.

    I've been running a miami built original glass 96' 189 for about 20 yrs and it works great for me. Very solid. Much better ride than other similar sized skiffs I have been on including the Mavericks and Action Crafts and much dryer as well. Also much more storage room. I run very long trips in it. An average day for me is 100 miles. A bit too heavy to pole much so I just use the troller for that. The design is a bit different from the newer 189s as the hatches in the front are different and the drain wells on the older boats are deeper and more effective. Not sure why they changed to shallower wells later. I rode the 2011 with a 250 around Ponce Inlet for about 30 mins in varying conditions. It feels much bigger (than just the approx 3' difference) running it vs. the 189 to me. It does ride better than the 189 in all conditions and is substantively faster. It also floats in the same water or less when compared to the 189. The ride and draft and speed was enough to get my attention. I was going to get one but honestly, the asymmetrical front hatch design really was trouble for me. To my eye, it is very odd looking and looks out of place. I did not think I could get used to looking over it all day. It would really bother me as crazy as that may sound. It was so much so, I had to stick with my older boat. If I was going to go with a bigger boat today, I might consider the HB Estero which is also a great performer with a more symmetrical deck design and also floats shallower than my 189 and is a tad bigger than the Egret 2011.
  • smallblock342smallblock342 Posts: 36 Greenhorn
    Thanks for the response Egrets Landing, Correct me if I'm wrong but are you Glenn FMT? Bought a chip from you a year or so ago and saved myself a few thousand dollars of glass repairs.
  • Egrets LandingEgrets Landing Posts: 935 Officer
    Thanks for the response Egrets Landing, Correct me if I'm wrong but are you Glenn FMT? Bought a chip from you a year or so ago and saved myself a few thousand dollars of glass repairs.

    Who me? :shrug Just because I run a 100 mile day on average and have five GPS machines and have redone my hull 3 times in 6 yrs from pvc and buoy scrapes and have a PC with 300+ gb of RAM and about 50 TB of hard drive space laying around with aerial images doesn't mean I do any mapping stuff. Well, maybe just a little sometimes.
  • Saltwater JunkieSaltwater Junkie Posts: 1,007 Officer
    Who me? :shrug Just because I run a 100 mile day on average and have five GPS machines and have redone my hull 3 times in 6 yrs from pvc and buoy scrapes and have a PC with 300+ gb of RAM and about 50 TB of hard drive space laying around with aerial images doesn't mean I do any mapping stuff. Well, maybe just a little sometimes.

    Sound like sometimes you work on Tuesday if the weather is crappy and you don't need to wash clothes and tie leaders:grin
  • SpookSpook Posts: 136 Deckhand
    thanks for the response flatsboy. I remember seeing your boat for sale a year or so ago. Really liked the custom leaning post you had on it. I cant imagine running 43-45 in rough water conditions (Honest 3 foot chop). Both your boats look great. I live in fort Lauderdale and would love to take a ride on a 21 to see/feel the real difference from the 18. A buddy of mine that posts on here (flatwaterwitch) described to me that the 21 rides just a little better, that there's no where that the 21 could go that the 18 cant. And at the end of the day if you look at the weather forecast and they are predicting 4 foot seas off shore who really would want to go out in those conditions anyways, even if you have a 25 foot center console. I've gotten two rough build sheets from frank and it looks like the 21 is going to be roughly 15-20k more than an 18 with the way I want it rigged. Keep the responses coming.


    Jack will not steer you wrong, so take his word as truth. He is a great guy. I have an 98 CK Miami built 18'9 and it does everything I need it to do. I do not fish any further than in sight of land though the boat can do more I choose not too. If you are going to be fishing all backcountry then the 18'9 will be fine. If you want to run the beach and a little offshore and need the extra length then go with the 21. Can't go wrong with either.

    Good luck.
  • smallblock342smallblock342 Posts: 36 Greenhorn
    Took a ride on Phill's moccasin and I'm pretty much sold on that.
  • FlatsBoyFlatsBoy Posts: 1,305 Officer
    Took a ride on Phill's moccasin and I'm pretty much sold on that.

    It was very nice meeting you. Glad you decided to go that route. I'm also glad you were open minded and listened to all my first hand experience between the differences in these boats and understood after seeing and riding in my boat what it is capable of.

    There is a big difference in ride between the 189 and 2011 & 210 Moccasin like I expressed in my earlier post and others have as well. People that own 189's and haven't test drove a 2011 or Moccasin 210 back to back in the same conditions really have no clue what there talking about or don't know how to drive a boat.

    This is how I experienced the first test ride on the 2011. I had my 189 on location switched over and rode the 2011 got off and went back into my 189. Only then will you understand how much they both differ and how much the 2011 & Moccasin run better in the same conditions. Hope you enjoy building your boat you have lots to think about and decide on. Feel free to call me with any questions.
  • Flatwater witchFlatwater witch Posts: 596 Officer
    Anyone, in my opinion, that is looking to buy an egret isn't really worried about poling. What I want to hear is "night and day difference", as you said "unquestionably" which sells me on the 2011

    If going Bay boat, go big or go home.--Unquestionably better ride.

    https://www.seaveeboats.com/bay-boats/
    Renagade69 wrote: »
    Either you are mechanically inclined ore your not. The fact you had to ask told me that you can not do it. Its ok, not every one has this ability. Some people just have to pay.
  • TXWahooTXWahoo Posts: 442 Deckhand
    If going Bay boat, go big or go home.--Unquestionably better ride.

    https://www.seaveeboats.com/bay-boats/

    I was quoted "about $110K" 3 years ago at the Miami Boat Show for the SeeVee.
  • Saltwater JunkieSaltwater Junkie Posts: 1,007 Officer
    If going Bay boat, go big or go home.--Unquestionably better ride.

    https://www.seaveeboats.com/bay-boats/

    I too went to the boat show two or three years ago and I decided to checkout both the Sea Vee and the Barker. The Sea Vee had tons of wasted space and In my opinion a poor layout. The Barker made a big deal about their quality. But left much to be desired.

    It's been a few years now maybe they've decided to do what Egret has been doing since 1995.
  • FlatsBoyFlatsBoy Posts: 1,305 Officer
    TXWahoo wrote: »
    I was quoted "about $110K" 3 years ago at the Miami Boat Show for the SeeVee.

    The one at the Fort Lauderdale boat show you can add another 50k to that price now. Plus it's a 27 foot boat some bay boat more like a mini offshore rig!
  • Saltwater JunkieSaltwater Junkie Posts: 1,007 Officer
    FlatsBoy wrote: »
    The one at the Fort Lauderdale boat show you can add another 50k to that price now. Plus it's a 27 foot boat some bay boat more like a mini offshore rig!

    Here's the perfect example of what you're saying. A used 2017 SeaVee Bayboat $ 195,000.00: With Twin 200 only 100Hrs w/Warranty Thru 10/18/2024, Fiberglass T-top w/Low Profile 2nd Station w/Full Controls & Garmin 7608 GPS, 2-10' Power Poles, 36V Minn Kota Xtrera Trolling Motor w/I-Pilot, Supreme Leaning Post w/Frigid Rigid Cooler on slide track, Livewells w/3-Pump Seachest, Recirc Pump, Fresh & Raw Water washdowns, 11-Console Rod Holders + 4-Gunnel Rod Holders, 2-Underwater Lights, 3-Batteries w/Battery Charger, Custom Black Acrylic Dash w/Garmin 7616 GPS/Depth + 7610 Bow Mt, GSD26 Black Box for B275LH-W Chirp Transducer, GXM53 Sat Weather Receiver, Garmin AIS300 & Icom 324 VHF Radio, Fusion MS-UD750 Stereo w/6-8.8 JL audio Speakers & 2 600w amps, Fusion remote, SS Tow Eye,

    http://www.boats.com/power-boats/2017-sea-vee-270z-6233350/#.WgxpeGhSxaQ
  • SpookSpook Posts: 136 Deckhand
    If going Bay boat, go big or go home.--Unquestionably better ride.

    https://www.seaveeboats.com/bay-boats/

    A buddy of mine has a 25 foot Contender Bay Boat and it is a very nice boat. Night and Day different that the 23 Pathfinder he had before this boat. What suprised me the most is how shallow it will float, 12 to 13 inches all day long.
  • Renagade69Renagade69 Posts: 1,228 Officer
    FlatsBoy wrote: »
    It was very nice meeting you
    I think Flatboy like going on rides with strangers.

    There are so many Bay boats out there. That is another thread. I owned both Egrets also. Great rides.
    Hells Bay Estero Bay Boat and Hells Bay Marquesas
  • smallblock342smallblock342 Posts: 36 Greenhorn

    Ordered a moccasin...waiting for the final product.

    Apparently Yamaha is having issues with production. Not sure if this applies to my build. Have read a lot of posts on multiple forums.

  • Saltwater JunkieSaltwater Junkie Posts: 1,007 Officer

    A Suzuki 200 will work just fine and the colors will match...

  • FlatsBoyFlatsBoy Posts: 1,305 Officer
    edited February 7 #23

    Despite which motor brand your loyal too here. I've always been a Mercury guy and was hard pressed to change until the new 200 Suzuki. I've driven and fished the Egret Moccasin 21 with the Mercury 150 4 stroke which felt under powered and lack luster also the cheapest. The Yamaha 200 4 stroke V4 the most expensive has a lower unit that is geared weird and makes it hard to prop along with the vibration and shutter due to it's known harmonic balancer design. At idle and in gear it translates this shutter into the hull and the motor is noticeably not as quiet or fuel efficient as the Suzuki 175 & 200. The Suzuki 200 with digital controls is by far the best combo for the boat. The boat runs and handles the best with the 200 AP Suzuki due to it's design and lower unit gearing. Being able to use large diameter hi pitch props benefits this hull design from handling, speed, fuel economy along with quietness and at a price point several thousand less than Yamaha along with availability right now. It's a no brainer.

  • Capt JimCapt Jim Posts: 59 Greenhorn

    I agree with FlatsBoy on this. The Yammie 175/200 I4 has a vibration problem. I've run this boat with the 'zuke 200 and it's the right engine for this boat. Quiet, smooth and gets on plane effortlessly.

  • smallblock342smallblock342 Posts: 36 Greenhorn

    You Zuke guys have a lot of extra kool-aid to drink. Called frank and he has my Yammie

  • smallblock342smallblock342 Posts: 36 Greenhorn

    And for the record. Flatsboy and I have already spoke, when he goes fishing with me he already knows he's gonna have to re fill all his fillings due to the excessive Yamaha prop chatter. But at the same time when he's leaning on the leaning post he will get a free back massage so its kinda a catch 22...

  • Renagade69Renagade69 Posts: 1,228 Officer

    @smallblock342 said:
    And for the record. Flatsboy and I have already spoke, when he goes fishing with me he already knows he's gonna have to re fill all his fillings due to the excessive Yamaha prop chatter. But at the same time when he's leaning on the leaning post he will get a free back massage so its kinda a catch 22...

    Hopefully you give him the Reach around after the back massage.

    Hells Bay Estero Bay Boat and Hells Bay Marquesas
  • Flatwater witchFlatwater witch Posts: 596 Officer

    Smallblock 342

    Post up some more build pics.

    You should be getting close.

    Renagade69 wrote: »
    Either you are mechanically inclined ore your not. The fact you had to ask told me that you can not do it. Its ok, not every one has this ability. Some people just have to pay.
  • smallblock342smallblock342 Posts: 36 Greenhorn


  • smallblock342smallblock342 Posts: 36 Greenhorn
    My girlfriend and I as well as our little brown hot dog drove to St.Augustine yesterday where we met Frank to take delivery of my new boat. Frank showed me all the systems as well as gave me a sea trial to get a feel for the boat. Frank, definitely a cool guy and I'm lucky to have one of his boats.  
  • FlatsBoyFlatsBoy Posts: 1,305 Officer
    Congrats
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