Disconnected by Disaster—Photos From a Battered Puerto Rico

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  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 13,060 AG
    Angler719 wrote: »
    No need to google that the US government has been much more irresponsible , especially the last eight years.
    Read that wiki and see who has cut Puerto Ricos throat, you probably wont like what you find.

    Thanks, I'm well aware of the history of PR.

    And, yet again, you are just showing your ignorance if you think the last 8 years were any different from prior or current administrations -- as much as you might want to think the last 8 years were different that is simply a lie....kind of like suggesting that all of a sudden that they have financial problems or a hurricane hits they want to be Americans.

    But that's much easier, I suppose, than simply saying something like "thank you for the correction" or simply not sticking your nose into a response not directed at you and doing it ignorant of the facts of the matter.
    Angler719 wrote: »
    Oh[,] I wouldn't take your advice for anything, [m]y toilet paper is probably worth more.

    That's too bad. You might learn something.
    Angler719 wrote:
    At this point you wont be talking to me , you are no longer worth my time.

    Fine, take your ball and go home. I would expect nothing less.

    Take care....Mike
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 10,104 AG
    Tarponator wrote: »
    Thanks, and I guess that means you agree that Wiki is a valid source in this case.

    Tell me, who do you think is more fiscally responsible in terms of public debt, PR or the USA?

    Some friendly advice: You might want to google it before you stick your foot in your mouth again.

    What is the population of PR vs. the population of the US?
    Now do some basic division.
    PR is like some of our states and cities, they thought the golden goose would live forever.
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 10,104 AG
    Colonialism?? LOL!
    I'm sure they would be much better off under Spanish rule??
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 13,060 AG
    mustang190 wrote: »
    What is the population of PR vs. the population of the US?
    Now do some basic division.
    PR is like some of our states and cities, they thought the golden goose would live forever.

    You would have been better paying attention to Angler's answer -- he was right to not engage in the conversation.

    Here are the facts:

    US debt is north of $40k/person.
    PR debt is north of $12k/person.

    You were saying?

    Because I kind of like you, let me help: The point is that both the USA and PR are pretty **** horrible when it comes to fiscal responsibility, but a farily good argument could be made that PR is actually in better shape than the USA, at least in terms of per capita debt.

    Now, to that point, your response should be: "Mike, you marxist antifa supporter, you're comparing apples to oranges -- in this case a country to a state -- so the comparison isn't exactly fair." And I would agree -- at least with the comparison part :) -- but it doesn't change the underlying observation that neither the USA nor PR are in good shape with respect to debt.

    If both PR and the USA were people applying for a home lone, we'd both be denied. Each of our balance sheets are almost beyond repair, IMO.

    Which brings us back to the point that got me involved in this silly thread in the first place: It makes simply no sense to suggest that PR is looking to become part of the USA just because of their debt, much less the most recent hurricane. That's simply ridiculous and is not supported by any of the facts. But of course, if you have any facts to the contrary, I am and will always be open to discussing them.

    Hope this helps....Mike
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 10,104 AG
    PR is losing something like 8percent of their population each year, and I'm sure many more will be bailing out after this. Their debt may or may not be part of the statehood issue but admitting them would be just another financial nightmare.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 13,060 AG
    mustang190 wrote: »
    PR is losing something like 8percent of their population each year, and I'm sure many more will be bailing out after this. Their debt may or may not be part of the statehood issue but admitting them would be just another financial nightmare.

    It's declining, just not @ 8% per year. Here's the google-fu on "puerto rico population decline":

    Overall, the island's population was an estimated 3.47 million in 2015, down 334,000 from 2000 – a 9% decline. Three-quarters of this population loss has taken place since 2010. Puerto Rico's population declined by 7% from 2010 to 2015, compared with a 2% loss from 2000 to 2010.

    But you're right about one thing -- admitting them now would be problematic. Really, we should have done it a long time ago -- at the same time as Alaska and Hawaii.

    I wonder why it didn't happen then.....or do I?
  • mindyabinessmindyabiness Posts: 5,474 Admiral
    Cyclist wrote: »
    From your source.
    The Intercept produces well sourced quality journalism.

    I have never heard of them before or read anything by them. Figured they may offer a less conservative view than the nation, although both sources seem to say similar things. Colonialism is a major issue with PR.
    I had never heard of them either.
    The aid should be immediate and then limited to rebuilding infrastructure. Dumping a bunch of free stuff over a period of years has a way of stifling economic recovery. Look what happened in Haiti.......
    Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon... No matter how good you are, the bird is going to crap on the board and strut around like it won anyway.
  • gettinwetgettinwet Posts: 1,366 Officer
    Finfinder wrote: »
    got you ......

    there are a couple others trying to politicize this and I think the US is doing what they can.

    That's the problem - the tone from the POTUS on down - PR is the US!!!!!!!!!!
    There are only so many casts in life, so shut up and fish!!
  • stc1993stc1993 Albany, GA Carrabelle, FLPosts: 6,579 Admiral
    Tarponator wrote: »
    The vote was on June 11 of this year.

    Care to rethink that?

    The fifth referendum was held on June 11, 2017. 97% percent voted for statehood, though there was only 23% voter turnout. The ones that were against statehood were told to stay home.
  • MenziesMenzies Posts: 19,289 AG
    stc1993 wrote: »
    The fifth referendum was held on June 11, 2017. 97% percent voted for statehood, though there was only 23% voter turnout. The ones that were against statehood were told to stay home.

    Second time you posted that, Can you give us some links to that fact?
    Maybe if we tell people that the brain is an App, they will start using it.
  • stc1993stc1993 Albany, GA Carrabelle, FLPosts: 6,579 Admiral
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/puerto-rico-holds-vote-sunday-statehood-amid-criticism-over-timing-n770496

    Here's one I don't think it's the one I saw though. The one I saw was on TV & it was a lot more strongly worded about people not showing up to vote.

    Here's another. I have no reason to lie I watched it on the news.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/12/americas/puerto-rico-statehood-referendum/index.html
  • dragon baitdragon bait Posts: 7,857 Admiral
    Trump said he was initially considering whether to implement a temporary waiver of the Jones Act to allow it, but decided against doing so as "a lot of people that work in the shipping industry…don’t want the Jones Act lifted."

    http://www.newsweek.com/puerto-rico-hurricane-maria-donald-trump-jones-act-relief-aid-672778
  • NACl H2O LuvrNACl H2O Luvr Posts: 12,124 AG
    Washington (CNN)The White House has authorized a waiver to loosen shipping rules regarding Puerto Rico that island officials say would be a significant help for recovery efforts from Hurricane Maria.
    "At @ricardorossello request, @POTUS has authorized the Jones Act be waived for Puerto Rico. It will go into effect immediately," White House press secretary Sarah Sanders tweeted Thursday morning.

    Her tweet comes after Puerto Rico Gov. Ricardo Rosselló said he asked the White House to loosen the regulations Wednesday night.


    http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/28/politics/puerto-rico-governor-white-house-jones-act-waiver/index.html?adkey=bn
  • ResinheadResinhead Posts: 10,555 AG
    Good thing political posts are no longer allowed.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 13,060 AG
    stc1993 wrote: »
    The fifth referendum was held on June 11, 2017. 97% percent voted for statehood, though there was only 23% voter turnout. The ones that were against statehood were told to stay home.

    That is not entirely true. As the articles you subsequently posted clearly state, some opposition parties suggested a boycott, but not all of the ones who were against it stayed home -- obviously. Traditionally more than half of the residents have voted for statehood.

    Setting all that aside for a moment, it is demonstrably false to suggest that since the hurricane all of a sudden the populace is in favor of statehood. You know, the assertion I was disputing when citing the most recent (and previous) votes.

    Anyway, thanks for the responses, articles, and discussion....Mike
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 10,104 AG
    Back to the topic,
    It looks like there is not a shortage of relief supplies. You can google what's going on at the ports and airfields. Supplies are stacked up, the problem is distributing those supplies. They cannot find trucks or drivers. And equipment to clear roads.
    My question is where are they?
    I hate to think it but maybe this is another case of a population that has grown totally dependent on government??
  • MenziesMenzies Posts: 19,289 AG
    mustang190 wrote: »
    I hate to think it but maybe this is another case of a population that has grown totally dependent on government??

    No you don't.
    Maybe if we tell people that the brain is an App, they will start using it.
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 10,104 AG
    Menzies wrote: »
    No you don't.

    You think so?
  • tankardtankard Posts: 7,031 Admiral
    Menzies is a mind-reader you know.
  • stc1993stc1993 Albany, GA Carrabelle, FLPosts: 6,579 Admiral
    Tarponator wrote: »
    That is not entirely true. As the articles you subsequently posted clearly state, some opposition parties suggested a boycott, but not all of the ones who were against it stayed home -- obviously. Traditionally more than half of the residents have voted for statehood.

    Setting all that aside for a moment, it is demonstrably false to suggest that since the hurricane all of a sudden the populace is in favor of statehood. You know, the assertion I was disputing when citing the most recent (and previous) votes.

    Anyway, thanks for the responses, articles, and discussion....Mike

    Well something happened with only 23% of voters turning up. On an Island that normally has a 70-85% turnout of voters.

    I just read The white house waived the jones act.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/puerto-rico-crisis/white-house-waives-jones-act-help-storm-ravaged-puerto-rico-n805436
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 13,060 AG
    Yes, the % went up, but it's not like they were voting against it and all of a sudden had a change of heart. The vote has been moving in the direction of statehood in increasing % for each of the five or six votes, if memory serves.
  • Turner River TerrorTurner River Terror Posts: 7,145 Admiral
    Interesting..thanks for posting.
    Killin and Grillin :grin
  • stc1993stc1993 Albany, GA Carrabelle, FLPosts: 6,579 Admiral
    They need to send in the National Guard or the Army to get things moving. That's what they are talking about doing. The same General they sent into Katrina.
  • gettinwetgettinwet Posts: 1,366 Officer
    mustang190 wrote: »
    Back to the topic,
    It looks like there is not a shortage of relief supplies. You can google what's going on at the ports and airfields. Supplies are stacked up, the problem is distributing those supplies. They cannot find trucks or drivers. And equipment to clear roads.
    My question is where are they?
    I hate to think it but maybe this is another case of a population that has grown totally dependent on government??

    They aren't dependent on government - rather on civil modern society - this isn't the 1800s after all. I'm not getting up tomorrow to hunt in order to put food on the table.........when I can just walk into Publix and swipe my debit card.
    There are only so many casts in life, so shut up and fish!!
  • dragon baitdragon bait Posts: 7,857 Admiral
    "great job!"

    97% without power almost 50% without water
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 10,104 AG
    "great job!"

    97% without power almost 50% without water

    What's your point?
  • mustang190mustang190 Posts: 10,104 AG
    gettinwet wrote: »
    They aren't dependent on government - rather on civil modern society - this isn't the 1800s after all. I'm not getting up tomorrow to hunt in order to put food on the table.........when I can just walk into Publix and swipe my debit card.

    I think a lot of people just expect government to do everything for them.
    Seems to me there would be droves of men volunteering to distribute those supplies? I hope there are people out in the countryside clearing roads on there own? Maybe we're not seeing it?
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