Chemical plant blows up. ‘No Way to Prevent’ Explosion'

CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,346 AG
CEO and owners should be jailed and those who let them build the plant with no backups to prevent this. Throw those morons in jail.



CEO of Flooded Texas Chemical Plant: There’s ‘No Way to Prevent’ Explosion
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/08/ceo-of-texas-chemical-plant-no-way-to-prevent-explosion.html


http://www.thedailybeast.com/houston-area-chemical-plant-could-explode-ceo-says
Flooded Chemical Site Blows, Burns Out of Control Near Houston
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Replies

  • micci_manmicci_man Somewhere in FLPosts: 13,136 AG
    What kind of back up do you suggest Pete?

    Keep in mind, you have to have refrigeration to keep those materials cool so they don't react and ignite. How do you guarantee refrigeration in a catastrophic event like happened?
    Common Sense can't be bought, taught or gifted, yet it is one of the few things in life that is free, and most refuse to even attempt to possess it. - Miguel Cervantes
  • mindyabinessmindyabiness Posts: 4,742 Captain
    Don't worry...The President and CEO of Arkema, Rich Rowe said the environmental impact would be minimal.
    Still, Rowe said the fire is “nothing that would pose any long-term harm or impact,” and any sustained environmental impact would be “minimal.”
    Still, Rowe sought to reassure reporters that after the plant blows, worries about any long-term environmental impact should be “minimal.”
    Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon... No matter how good you are, the bird is going to crap on the board and strut around like it won anyway.
  • mplspugmplspug Palmetto FloridaPosts: 8,222 Admiral
    Gary stop eating your own
    The plant manufactures organic peroxides...

    Captain Todd Approves

  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,346 AG
    micci_man wrote: »
    What kind of back up do you suggest Pete?

    Keep in mind, you have to have refrigeration to keep those materials cool so they don't react and ignite. How do you guarantee refrigeration in a catastrophic event like happened?

    They built in a flood zone and did not have contingencies for flooding. Like placing vulnerable systems, tanks, generators ABOVE the ground surface. Hell, a private person can't permit squat without doing this, why not a a dangerous chemical plant?
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  • MenziesMenzies Posts: 19,289 AG
    Cyclist wrote: »
    They built in a flood zone and did not have contingencies for flooding. Like placing vulnerable systems, tanks, generators ABOVE the ground surface. Hell, a private person can't permit squat without doing this, why not a a dangerous chemical plant?

    Did they build in a flood zone?

    Everywhere in the world is a potential flood zone depending on amount of water falling. But if this was a 100 year storm, just because the area flooded does not necessarily define a "flood zone."
    Maybe if we tell people that the brain is an App, they will start using it.
  • micci_manmicci_man Somewhere in FLPosts: 13,136 AG
    ok, I see you changed your original post to say "allow to build" from "back up".
    Common Sense can't be bought, taught or gifted, yet it is one of the few things in life that is free, and most refuse to even attempt to possess it. - Miguel Cervantes
  • ParkerboyParkerboy Posts: 6,992 Admiral
    According to local reports it not only had a backup system but they brought in an additional backup system both of which were overcome by historic flooding.

    At a press conference this morning shown locally the fire depart said the peroxide would burn and the fumes are noxious but not toxic. Note this was not from the evil corporation but local responders.

    However, please do not let facts interfere with your moral outrage.
    Deo Vindice
  • dragon baitdragon bait Posts: 6,780 Admiral
    .Arkema was required to submit a risk management plan to the EPA because it has large amounts of sulfur dioxide, a toxic chemical, and methylpropene, a flammable gas. The plans are supposed to detail the effects of a potential release and how the company would respond.

    In its most recently available submission from 2014, Arkema said that in a worst-case scenario, 1.1 million residents could be affected over 23 miles, according to information compiled by a nonprofit group and posted on a website hosted by the Houston Chronicle.


    Arkema argued that that scenario was highly unlikely because it assumed that all of the plant’s safety measures failed and that strong winds were blowing directly toward Houston.

    http://cjonline.com/news/2017-08-31/explosions-rock-flood-crippled-chemical-plant-near-houston
  • ScoutboatScoutboat Posts: 2,112 Captain
    In retrospect, there is no way a chemical plant could have transferred tens or hundreds of thousands of gallons anywhere due to hurricane threats.
    They shut the plant down.
  • HomerSimpsonHomerSimpson Posts: 6,573 Admiral
    Menzies wrote: »
    Did they build in a flood zone?

    Everywhere in the world is a potential flood zone depending on amount of water falling. But if this was a 100 year storm, just because the area flooded does not necessarily define a "flood zone."

    its in a 500 year flood zone!!!

    did they check the records to see when the last flood was? Evidently it was 499 years ago. So they should have known

    they should have at least built it on stilts!!!



    Monday morning QBing :rolleyes
  • Major WaderMajor Wader Posts: 702 Officer
    You do realize that this area had more rain than had ever fallen anywhere in the USA, right? And the plant has been there for decades?

    51.9 inches of rain fell on this area from Friday to Tuesday. I have friends in the area. Cedar Bayou, which runs near that plant, came up more than 22 feet overnight.

    They had refrigeration in place, backup units, and brought in redundant backups. Please tell us what else they should have done to prepare for a 1000 year flood event, and why it is reasonable to prosecute people for natural disasters.
    Joined: Oct 25 2001
    Member #4013
    Canton, GA
  • ParkerboyParkerboy Posts: 6,992 Admiral
    Major, you beat me to it. A 1,000 year event and redundant backups. Sure wish some brilliant expert would explain to me what they could have or should have done to prepare for 50 inches of rain which fell in a short period of time.
    Deo Vindice
  • treemanjohntreemanjohn Posts: 3,450 Captain
    Pete understands that it's unforseen and not preventable he just didn't have anything to whine about today
    We’re like the piggy bank that everybody is robbing, and that ends President Trump
  • Turner River TerrorTurner River Terror Posts: 6,394 Admiral
    Pete is Environmental Security round here...Get Um Pete..:cool
    Killin and Grillin :grin
  • Bimini TwistedBimini Twisted Posts: 11,276 AG
    Parkerboy wrote: »
    Major, you beat me to it. A 1,000 year event and redundant backups. Sure wish some brilliant expert would explain to me what they could have or should have done to prepare for 50 inches of rain which fell in a short period of time.
    You do realize that this area had more rain than had ever fallen anywhere in the USA, right? And the plant has been there for decades?

    51.9 inches of rain fell on this area from Friday to Tuesday. I have friends in the area. Cedar Bayou, which runs near that plant, came up more than 22 feet overnight.
    ...
    its in a 500 year flood zone!!!

    did they check the records to see when the last flood was? Evidently it was 499 years ago. So they should have known

    they should have at least built it on stilts!!!



    Funny, it's almost as if the climate is changing.:)
  • dragon baitdragon bait Posts: 6,780 Admiral
    New Hazard in Storm Zone: Chemical Blasts and ‘Noxious’ Smoke
    The Arkema plant has been identified as one of the most hazardous in the state. Its failure followed releases of contaminants from several other area petrochemical plants and systemic breakdowns of water and sewer systems in Houston and elsewhere in the storm-struck region.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/31/us/texas-chemical-plant-explosion-arkema.html
  • CyclistCyclist Posts: 23,346 AG
    Apparently Houston texas has had three 500 year floods in the past three years. Go figure.

    And the chemicals that blew up were in trailers. Presumably with wheels.

    AND the plant didn't have the REQUIRED safety backups.

    Yet, some people see fit to defend this offshore company. Wonder why that is?
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  • dragon baitdragon bait Posts: 6,780 Admiral
    Now the surrounding residents, living 25 miles northeast of downtown Houston, have been instructed to shut their doors and windows, turn off air conditioners and do everything possible to avoid breathing in the acrid smoke and fumes pouring out of the plant owned by Arkema Inc.
    http://www.houstonchronicle.com/opinion/editorials/article/The-disaster-in-Crosby-is-purely-man-made-12165693.php
  • ParkerboyParkerboy Posts: 6,992 Admiral
    Cyclist wrote: »
    Apparently Houston texas has had three 500 year floods in the past three years. Go figure.

    And the chemicals that blew up were in trailers. Presumably with wheels.

    AND the plant didn't have the REQUIRED safety backups.

    Yet, some people see fit to defend this offshore company. Wonder why that is?

    Please cite your sources. I am in the Houston area and have not seen any such report you allege. I watched the news conference yesterday during which law enforcement and fire dept along with chemical hazardous responders spoke and it was stated the plant had not only the equipment required to refrigerate the chemicals but also backup generators AND additional backup generators in anticipation of the storm. Additionally, these "trailers" are actually storage containers which are commonly seen being transported by tractor trailer trucks.

    The below is taken from recent newspaper report:

    Officials later downplayed the severity of what happened at the plant, which makes organic peroxides for use in items such as counter tops and pipes. Those materials are currently being stored inside nine separate, 18-wheeler box vans at the facility, weighing 36,000 pounds each.

    Authorities said Thursday morning that there weren't "explosions" at the facility but, rather, "small pops" followed by smoke and fire.


    But Richard Rennard, an Arkema executive, said it was impossible to know for sure, since all the employees had left the site.

    "These things can burn very quickly and violently; it would not be unusual for them to explode," Rennard said at a news conference. However, he said: "We believe it hasn't been a massive explosion; it's just been these vapor release valves that popped" in one of the box vans.

    "We fully expect that the eight other containers will do the same thing," Rennard added. "We anticipate that all of this product is going to degrade; we don't know exactly how long that's going to take … whether it's today, tomorrow, we just don't know; it's impossible to predict."


    Richard Rennard of Arkema chemical plant told reporters in Crosby, Tex., "this isn't a chemical release. What we have is a fire," on Aug. 31. (Reuters)
    The Harris County Fire Marshal's Office reported "a series of chemical reactions" and "intermittent smoke" at the facility sometime between midnight and 1 a.m. Thursday.

    Bob Royall, assistant chief for emergency operations for the Harris County Fire Marshal's Office, said there were "small container ruptures that may have a sound" — like "a series of pops."

    "I don't want the public thinking these are massive explosions," Royall told reporters, adding: "I call it a chemical reaction and an overpressure of the container."

    Harris County Sheriff Ed Gonzalez told reporters that the fumes created by the chemical reaction are "not anything toxic; it is not anything that we feel is a danger to the community at all"

    Houston is in a low lying area and surrounded by bayous and flooding is not uncommon during storms but no one has ever seen storms of this magnitude.
    Deo Vindice
  • PotholePothole Posts: 1,368 Officer
    Parkerboy wrote: »
    Please cite your sources.

    Like most everything he posts, his source comes straight outta his ****. Haven't you learned that by now?
  • dragon baitdragon bait Posts: 6,780 Admiral
    Parkerboy wrote: »
    Please cite your sources.

    Or is your local paper called
    recent newspaper report
  • ParkerboyParkerboy Posts: 6,992 Admiral
    Or is your local paper called

    I watched the press conference live yesterday and today I copied and pasted from a Reuters article not a local paper but a national news agency. Answer your asinine question?
    Deo Vindice
  • ParkerboyParkerboy Posts: 6,992 Admiral
    Just reported by Reuters, the fire has burned out with no explosion or release of toxic fumes. Other storage vessels may still burn however.

    I know this greatly disappoints some who have been waiting for the opportunity to bash this company and Houston.
    Deo Vindice
  • Bimini TwistedBimini Twisted Posts: 11,276 AG
    Nothing a little more deregulation won't fix.
  • ScoutboatScoutboat Posts: 2,112 Captain
    The chemical plant did not "blow up".
    Good enough???????
  • GardawgGardawg Posts: 8,090 Admiral
    Ya can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.
    joe.jpg 101.7K
    “Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves.

    Heres Tom with the Weather.”
  • silvergsilverg Posts: 1,456 Officer
    CEO = Bad, very bad, f'n scum of the earth I tell you
  • Major WaderMajor Wader Posts: 702 Officer
    Cyclist wrote: »
    Apparently Houston texas has had three 500 year floods in the past three years. Go figure.

    And the chemicals that blew up were in trailers. Presumably with wheels.

    AND the plant didn't have the REQUIRED safety backups.

    Yet, some people see fit to defend this offshore company. Wonder why that is?

    Because they did have redundant systems, exceeded the REQUIRED backups, had a crew on site to keep the equipment running, were not able to move the product due to the speed of water rising, while they may be an offshore parent company, they have 26 US facilities, and have an excellent work safety record at that facility.

    Despite that, you were calling for jail time for company officers and any local people involved in the permitting of the facility decades ago, when the actual rainfall from this storm was well over double the predictions 2-3 days prior to the event. Not a reasonable expectation.

    And a 500 year flood doesn't mean it only occurs once in 500 years. It means in any given year, there is a 0.2% chance of a flood at that level, which typically occurs at a 500 year interval. This was actually more than a 1000 year flood.
    Joined: Oct 25 2001
    Member #4013
    Canton, GA
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