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Props on 26 ft Twin Vee?

I have a 2016 26 ft Twin Vee. I would like to know what props you fellow Twin Vee owners are running and what performance you are getting. I believe Twin Vee propped my boat wrong and the new owner Joseph Visconti is waving the warranty in my face and will not exchange the props for the correct ones but that is long story for another time.

Anyway I have Power Tech props PTZ4R23FCL200 on the boat (Suzuki 150's). Top end is 39.5 MPH at 5290 RPMs

My fuel mileage across the board is not impressive mostly sub 2.0 MPG

Suzuki tested 2 different 26 ft Twin Vee's in the last year. According to the reports they used a 3 x 15.25 x 20 and a 3 x 15 x 21. The best I can determine current 26 ft. Twin Vee's are being equipped with Suzuki 3 x 16 x 18.5 props.

Before I go and BUY a new set of props I would like to hear from Twin Vee owners what they are using and the data/performance they are getting.

Top end is not important mid range fuel consumption and mid range performance is.

I also have a set of Power Tech PTZ3RFCL200 props that have never been mounted that I will be selling if anyone needs them.

Fireman Bill

Replies

  • MakoLogicMakoLogic Posts: 628 Officer
    go join this group on facebook...lots of active discussions on all things cats (and good TV owner representation).

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/357378724638110/

    I sent your question to a buddy of mine that has a 2016 TV with suzukis.
    Fisherman, outdoors enthusiast, and software geek (not necessarily in that order, depending on the day)
    www.makologic.com
    [email protected]

    Formerly TxToFl...
  • Fireman BillFireman Bill Posts: 578 Officer
    Thank you Makologic. I went that page it was very interesting. I saw a post about PropGods. I called them and spoke to Ken he was very informative and I spoke to Marcus at Power Tech. Way to much prop stuff in my head I hope a few Twin Vee owners share their info.

    Fireman Bill
  • butts182butts182 Posts: 178 Deckhand
    Ken at prop gods gave me good advice on my prop issue on my contender.
  • Sea Monkey TooSea Monkey Too Posts: 47 Deckhand
    I wanted to get you some real numbers before I responded to you Ken. I have a 2016 26 ft TV with 150 digital Suzuki engines. I went out yesterday with a full tank of fuel and 4 people on board. Top RPM starboard was 5375 and Port was 5625. Top speed was 40.5 mph. I am running Power Tech 14.25 X 23. I also get around 2 mpg in very good conditions. Real mpg in a 1 to 2 ft chop is around 1.5 mpg. (Everyone remembers flat calm conditions and forgets the real world conditions).
    I test rode a new 2018 25 ft TV yesterday and the dealer recommended the new Suzuki 4 blade 15 X 20. He thought that we should be getting 2.5 mpg and getting around 45 mph. I plan on calling Suzuki directly and confirm this info. They just recently tested the 26 TV with Suzuki engineers on board so they should know.
    I spoke with Power Tech and they also recommended a larger diameter prop with less pitch. Suzukis have more torque and like the larger diameter props.
    Let me know what you come up with as well.
  • Fireman BillFireman Bill Posts: 578 Officer
    Thank you Sea Monkey. I spoke with Marcus at Power Tech He recommended a 4 blade 16 x 20 prop. I spoke with Ken at Prop Gods he liked a Power Tech 3 blade 16 x19. Preston at Twin Vee said they are putting Suzuki 3 blade 16 x 18.5 props on the new 26 ft. Twin Vees since the Miami boat show. Jim Costa of ODFF ( the best man in the state to buy a Twin Vee from in my opinion) has a Suzuki 3 blade 16 x 18.5 on a new boat and he got good numbers. There is a recent Suzuki test that used a 15.25 x 20 4 blade prop and another using a 15 x 21 3 blade prop

    I have been told that the Suzuki props are more like to spin a hub than a Power Tech and if you get it fixed it is very prone to failing again.

    Are your current props 3 blade or 4 blade? I have a set of 3 blade 23 inch props and 4 blade 23 inch props.

    Fireman Bill
  • Sea Monkey TooSea Monkey Too Posts: 47 Deckhand
    My props are 3 blade. Does your boat porpoise at high speeds in flat water? I get that and was told that a 4 blade prop will fix that to some degree. I can't figure why my starboard engine does not turn as high as my port engine though.
    Which props are going with?
  • Sea Monkey TooSea Monkey Too Posts: 47 Deckhand
    Also I had my boat built with Armstrong brackets. That may make a difference too.
  • Fireman BillFireman Bill Posts: 578 Officer
    My boat will porpoise at high speed if I trim the motors up too high. If I bring the trim down a little the porpoising disappears. I discussed the uneven top end rpm with Ken at Prop Gods. My port engine reaches a higher RPM than the starboard one which is opposite of yours. So that negates the theory that the props do not have the exact same pitch. It is not likely we have the same problem on opposite sides. The common denominator is the rigging at Twin Twin. The throttle linkage is probably off at bit.

    What is the theory with the Armstrong brackets? Could you post a photo I would like to see what it looks like.

    Which way are your motors rotating. Twin Vee set mine up with both engines rotating inboard. That was causing major steering problems at anything over 4200 RPM's. It really was unsafe. They switched my lower units a few weeks ago and that seems to have solved that issue.

    Right now I am thinking the Power Tech 3 blade 16 x 19 would be the best choice. I may wait a couple of weeks to buy new props. I am hoping a couple more Twin Vee owners post some data.

    Thank you for all your info.

    Fireman Bill
  • CatalystCatalyst Posts: 202 Deckhand
    I have a 26' Twin Vee with 175 Suzuki's. My top end is low 40's but I'm turning around 6000 rpms. I average about 2.25 mpg. I don't have a fuel management system but I have done hand calcs after a couple 2-3 day Bahamas trips.
    I will try to report back on prop sizes later today.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Sea Monkey TooSea Monkey Too Posts: 47 Deckhand
    Bill, my port engine turns higher than my starboard engine just like yours. My props turn out. I originally had the same problem as you. They were turning in and creating too much lift. Preston swapped the lower units on mine as well. It is much better and safer now. The idea of the brackets was to create more bow lift. I had a 2005 26 ft TV and always took waves over the bow and I did not like that at all. I rode on a 2015 and a 2017 26 TV and my boat does ride noticeably higher and the water breaks further aft.
  • Fireman BillFireman Bill Posts: 578 Officer
    My guess is the throttle linkage is not adjusted correctly. If you have owned 2 Twin Vees you would know attention to detail and quality control could use improvement I had a 2001 26 ft Twin Vee. I had endless problems with that boat (read The Hull Truth 2005 Fireman Bill and water in my Twin Vee) but evidently I got it squared away. It definitely did not like trolling speed into the sea in a tight period wind chop. I kept it until 2015 and bought a new 26 ft Twin Vee. The 2015 boat thought it was a submarine. It was a disastrous lemon. They thought it was full of water but they never found any. Twin Vee warrantied the hull and built a new taller 2016 hull for for me and put my console on the new boat. I had put 140's on the 2015 but I traded those in and put 150's on the 2016. It has been a long process getting everything right. Preston is great. I can not write what I think of the owner. I think the 2016 is the best boat of the newer models. The bow was way too low on the 2015 and they are, in my opinion , putting too much foo foo crap that has added too much weight on the 2017. I have yet to put water on the deck on the 2016 boat it was a regular occurrence on the 2001 and the 2015. Hopefully I can get the prop issues and top end, throttle adjustment worked out.

    Fireman Bill
  • Sea Monkey TooSea Monkey Too Posts: 47 Deckhand
    I also had water in the front compartments on my 2005 TV. I thought that they raised the bow on the 2015 model. That was when the company was being sold. I have a friend who started the build with Roger and ended with Joseph as the owner. His boat has the higher bow and does not take water over the front. Even with the 2016 model I get a wave over the front once and a while but it is ten times better than my 2005 model.
    I have the fly by wire Suzuki engines. Is there a throttle adjustment for those? I would not think so.
    Does your boat list to port when running?
  • Sea Monkey TooSea Monkey Too Posts: 47 Deckhand
    My 2016 model does not like to troll into a head sea just like my 2005. I get a lot of tunnel slap when trolling slow.
  • Fireman BillFireman Bill Posts: 578 Officer
    My warranty hull was built in the late spring of 2016. It was a change from what they were building up to that point that year. Our hulls could be different but built in the same year. I looked at my paperwork for the 2015 boat. My title is dated 9/2014 and says it is a 2015 hull.

    I do not have the fly by wire. I do not know how your throttles advance. Interesting we are off by almost the same number of RPM's.

    My boat would list to starboard when I ran when the motors were spinning inboard. I have not had it out enough since they reversed them to see if it lists to port now but I will look for it. I could level the boat by raising the opposite side engine a little extra with trim.

    Fireman Bill
  • KenakaMacKenakaMac Posts: 2 Greenhorn
    I was testing some props with Suzuki on the 26 Twin Vee with both the 150AP and 200AP engines. We found the 15 1/4, 4 blade 20p worked really well for the 26 with 150AP. They recently posted the numbers here - http://www.suzukimarine.com/Product%20Lines/Outboard%20Motors/Products/DF150/2012/~/media/Marine/BoatBuilders/TestResults/T/Twin%20Vee/Twin%20Vee%20260%20DF%20Twin%20150APs
    The boat with the 200HP engines liked the 4 blade 15 1/4 22p prop which is what I am currently running on my boat.
  • Fireman BillFireman Bill Posts: 578 Officer
    Thank you KenakaMac. I had read that report already it just adds to my confusion about what props to buy. The only thing I do know is I currently have the wrong ones.
  • BaggerBagger Posts: 116 Deckhand
    I have 2017 TV 260SE

    I went with the Suzuki 200's digital set up.

    I have 3x16x18.5 s

    Top end pushing 44kts at 5900 but don't run it that high. It was a test to see how would run..

    I cruise about 25Kts in intercostal at about 37-3800 rpm 4500 gives me just over 30kts With 2.2 miles per gal.

    With one eng off and trimed up I can run 25ish at 5000rpm. That's why I went with 200's.

    Been very happy with performance
    Bagger..... :USA


    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Fireman BillFireman Bill Posts: 578 Officer
    Thank you Bagger.

    Fireman Bill
  • Plane Fish nPlane Fish n Posts: 6,439 Admiral
    Bill,

    I've been watching this thread with regards to your prop issue but feel it's time to weigh in.

    You've had a 2001 26' Twinvee and then a 2015 (older style hull) 26' Twinvee. Reading your thread, I guess you've had some issues with the 2015 and Twinvee graciously built you a brand new 2016 (new style) hull. Regardless of what the issue was, they only had an obligation to fix the problem but instead, you got a BRAND NEW hull out of the deal plus they ordered brand new larger engines and installed them to boot. You were charged a very nominal fee for this. Under the old ownership at Twinvee, you would NEVER have gotten a new hull let alone for a nominal fee. (yes, I know that Roger Dunshee had sold the factory to Joseph Visconti when Preston agreed to build you a new hull and the only reason why you got this deal was 1. Roger's sale was almost complete or you most certainly would not have gotten the new hull 2. Joseph Visconti agreed to Preston's deal during the swithover)

    Joseph Visconti, the new owner of Twinvee had NO OBLIGATION to you other than to "fix" your issues. Preston Yarborough did the right thing and built you a new hull, not only a new hull but the NEW IMPROVED hull with the higher gunwales. Joseph could have pulled the plug on this deal at that time but he is the type of individual who is very caring and wanted to satisfy a customer at any cost..... and cost Twinvee it did!

    I personally remember walking around the factory when I was contemplating buying my 5th Twinvee in less than 8 years (1- 22' Oceancat 2-26' Oceancat's 2- 31' Oceancat's) and I saw your boat being built and all the work they did on it. They built you a beautiful boat. I had numerous issues with my boats under the old ownership but really like the ride and safety of the boats. I was NEVER offered a new hull to replace a 1 year old hull (Keep in mind that my issues FAR SURPASSED what you consider horrible issues)

    You then had issues with your gauges, went public and when you reached out to me (knowing that I have a lot of experience with Twinvee and Suzuki), I offered to help you and also told you to take the boat to ZAR at Boathouse Marine who would've straightened out your issues with a simple update. Instead, you continued to trash Twinvee while talking to me. One must take responsibility at some point for issues that could be sorted out easily and quickly.

    Now, you are bashing Twinvee publically for reversing the lower units thus causing an "unsafe" situation. This is a bunch of bunk! There is nothing written in stone that the props must spin outward. Preston and I actually reversed (props spinning inwards) the lower units on my 2011 26' Oceancat (with Suzuki 150 HP engines) to see if it improved performance. At no time was it "unsafe" or create steering issues but my fuel economy did suffer so we moved them back.

    Yes, I agree you are not propped right BUT what you didn't tell the forum was that your boat was almost 2 years old at this point and you now expect the factory to change out your props after 2 years at no charge? Really?????

    I just had a brand new 2018 31' Oceancat built and Palm City Yachts installed my twin Suzuki 300 HP engines. The props they installed were clearly not the correct props so I called them (not waiting 2 years) and discussed which props I should try which they agreed and installed. I went from 5200 RPM max to 6100 RPM plus gained 6 MPH. Had I waited 1 or 2 years after installation and asked Palm City Yachts to "warranty" my props and exchange them, they would have laughed in my face.. and rightly so!

    My point being that had you been reasonable, asked to re-prop it within a period of time close to delivery, I'm sure that Twinvee would have swapped props and not charged you.

    I am good friends with Sea Monkey Too and he has had issues with his boat HOWEVER, when approached reasonably, Joseph Visconti, ie:"the factory", has graciously fixed them. This is the same fellow who agreed to build you a new boat.... what a terrible guy!

    One other thing. I have personally been involved in having several friends purchase Twinvee's both under the old ownership and the new. All of us (me included) have all had problems but when approached with tact and the understanding that we are not the only customers they are responsible for, every one of us have been taken care of.

    Sea Monkey Too recently had an issue and the factory took care of his problems without hesitation.

    I have had many many boats built (including Formula, Thunderbird, Bertram, Pursuit, Angler, Robalo, Seabird, Cary, Sportsman, Twinvee, etc etc etc) Not one of those boats have come out of the factory so perfect that I did not have any issues.

    When approached early and reasonably, all of the items have been taken care of.

    Certainly, trashing Joseph Visconti on a public forum was probably not the best way to take care of your issue. If it were me at this point, I'd tell you to go to the beach and contemplate your actions (in other words, GO POUND SAND).

    I wish you luck in your prop resolution.

    There are ALWAYS 2 sides to every story.

    Cheers

    Eric
    PLANE FISH N
  • Fireman BillFireman Bill Posts: 578 Officer
    Plane Fish N

    That is truly a distorted report that you have put forth.

    1. The 2015 boat was unsafe. When I contacted Preston and told him something was wrong he met me at the boat ramp and after an inspection of the boat and a short ride he told me he thought there was water in the boat. I delivered the boat to Ft. Pierce. After a couple of weeks I met with Preston at the factory. He told me there was no water in the boat. It was at that meeting he offered to build a new hull because he was unable to determine what was wrong with the boat. I would have been very happy if he could have fixed the boat.

    He gave me 2 options; he could use a boat he had in production or wait for the new design he was working on. I opted to wait on the new design. The process went way beyond the due date partly because of the design of the transom and partially because of less than acceptable work that needed to be corrected. At no point during this time did I publicly bash Twin Vee. My friends and family could not believe my patience and loyalty to Twin Vee.


    My boat turned into the test boat for the new hull. Twin Vee cut the transom off multiple times and tried several different approaches to the transom. I allowed Twin Vee to use my boat and put hours on the new motors to keep testing until they thought they got it right.

    2. I bought the new motors from Twin Vee. They sold them to me for a good price but I doubt they lost money on the motors.

    3. You incorrectly stated the boat is 2 years old . It is not. I took it home last September. It has been back and forth to the factory more times than I can remember.

    4. The purpose of this thread was not to bash Twin Vee but rather to gather information from Twin Vee owners about what is the right prop. When I finally realized the props were wrong I attempted to contact Twin Vee for weeks. I received no response to calls, emails, texts and messages left with the receptionist. Do I feel Twin Vee should provide the proper props I absolutely do but that is obviously a lost cause.

    5. How do you know if my boat had an unsafe handling condition? My boat would bow steer above 4200 MPH the starboard sponson would grab and throw the boat to port. The boat could not be safely operated above 4200 RPM's or 31 MPH. How did I deal with it? I went slow. It was not until a July Keys trip with my son and his friends that the glaring problem could no longer be ignored. I contacted Twin Vee and they told me the motors needed to be reversed so they would spin outboard. I brought the boat to the factory and Twin Vee reversed the lower units. I was not happy that no one from Twin Vee had called to ask about the rotation issue. Once the rotation issue was corrected I attempted to find top end and figure out the poor fuel use issue. This is when Twin Vee went silent on me.

    5. The gauge issue you mention was on the 2015 boat. That boat as well went back and forth to the factory with rigging problems. The gauge issue was caused by Twin Vee's failure to install a necessary cable from the gauges to the Garmin unit. I did take it to the shop you mentioned and they corrected it.

    6. I can say nothing but good things about Preston. Through the whole process of the building of the new boat we had good communication. It was not until the owner intervened that communication recently broke down. I do not share your fondness for the owner. I will leave it at that.

    I would appreciate it if Twin Vee wants to bash me that you are not the mouth piece.

    Fireman Bill
  • JIMinPBJIMinPB Posts: 1,875 Captain
    Ever since I was first employed as a boat rigger back in the mid 1980's, I have always been told to rig duel motors to spin up & out. Some people were pretty adamant about that. I just did what I was told. I never dug in to do the research to find out why that direction of rotation was better than the alternative.

    Then again, I've found JV rigging errors on a new $3,000,000 yacht that was still on the hard at the factory, so even the high end guys do miss a detail now & then.

    I'm sorry to hear that you have had so much trouble with that thing.
  • Plane Fish nPlane Fish n Posts: 6,439 Admiral
    Bill

    First of all, you have a skewed way of looking at things and my intention was to set the record straight.

    Let me state the obvious to everyone but apparently you:

    1. I am not a mouthpiece for Twinvee. Last time I checked, I'm an airline pilot who really enjoys my quality built Twinvee boats.
    My vessels were certainly not without issues but as Jim pointed out to you, even the most expensive vessels have issues.
    I can unequivocally state that my issues have all been handled expeditiously and taken care of by Twinvee.

    2. One has to wonder why, with so many issues you claim about your 2001 Twinvee you would actually purchase another and then later, after issues with your 2015 "submarine", you would purchase yet another Twinvee?

    3. Joseph Visconti is an extremely honest and generous individual and yes, a good friend. You're just upset because he didn't give you new props. I also am very good friends with Preston and you failed to
    mention that even Preston stopped talking to you because of your temper tantrums.

    Any reasonable person would've bought the different props and moved on or traded it on another.

    Lastly, I'm sure everyone remembers your whining about the Avet Reel that "came apart" on the ride to
    the Bahamas. Your MO was the the same then with Avet as it was with Twinvee now but as you say, that's a story for another time.

    I've said what I needed to say to clear things up.

    Good luck with your endeavor.

    Over and out

    Eric
    PLANE FISH N
  • Fireman BillFireman Bill Posts: 578 Officer
    Plane Fish N I truly wish you would stop your personal attack on me. You do not know me and the second hand information you are receiving is not very accurate. Please stop.

    Fireman Bill
  • Fireman BillFireman Bill Posts: 578 Officer
    I finally got around to ordering new props. The hurricane drill put new props on hold. I ordered a pair of Power Tech props 3 blade 16 x 19. I took the old ones off and to my surprise I have a quarter inch of spline showing when I put the new ones on so I am either missing a fancy nut or something is wrong. Hopefully that gets resolved next week. When I went to take the existing props off I found the nut on the port motor only hand tight and the starboard motor not much tighter. There were no more threads to tighten the props further. The props were essentially being held in place by the cotter pins. The backs of the props were different. They were clearly not a matching set another example of Twin Vee craftsmanship. I will post some numbers with the new props when I get it all ironed out.

    Fireman Bill
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