Ford dealer misdiagnosed a repair.

electrodog

Baits Out wrote: »

Just a few general comments from a non-mechanic here.

First off, you have a great truck/engine combination. Not my opinion but by people
in the Ford dealership north of here I worked at for a short period of time as a sales rep
(until I found decent employment back during the dot com crash).

EDIT: That is usually a quarter million mile truck until major problems occur.

Secondly and after that, I was a "Ford man" and always took my vehicles to the dealer to have
serviced. Was a Wayne Acres Ford (in Lake Worth) customer for over 30 years. Knew most of the
people there on a first name basis and they gave me every special servicing and sales
deal they had.

A couple years ago I bought an off-lease Honda CRV from the local dealer here in Delray Beach
(after talking with a life-long friend who sold them up in PA and gave me the okay on that model).
I again take it to them for servicing and am very impressed with their customer service. Again,
am on a first name basis with my service writer though have only been there a few times -- the last
time to have warranty work done.

But then, I am old school and believe in personal relationships and handshake agreements.

When I purchased the truck in December of 2000, I realized that routine maintenance on a diesel is very expensive when using the dealership. I decided to do my own "routine" maintenance. I haven't been back to the dealer since! When I had my water pump issue (first issue with the truck!!!), in 2015 I found a local diesel shop where the owner was previously a master diesel tech at Ford. I was very happy with the service they provided and unfortunately for me there business exploded and when I called them about the issue I was having the only appointment they had was more than a week away. (they are an appointment only shop). I should have waited. I guess I have a rapport with the shop even though I have only been there once. When your vehicle breaks down once every 15 years its hard to forge a relationship with a repair shop! I am old school as well, and expect people/employees to take pride in their work, very disappointed in that regard here in South Florida.

cadman

electrodog wrote: »

Thanks,

I decided to check a Ford diesel forum and sure enough I discovered that there is a TSB for my engine regarding under valve cover clips. As a matter of fact the TSB states "DO NOT REPLACE INJECTOR, IF THE CLIP REPAIRS THE CONDITION". I would have expected the Ford mechanic would have checked for any TSB's and caught this, but unfortunately he did not. Truly sad that when I brought it back they re-diagnosed the problem to something else!!! Stay away from AutoNation Ford in Margate, stay far far away!

Why didn't you do this originally when it was not fixed. Then you could have went back with information on your side. I thought all dealers get the Technical Service Bulletins that you see on the internet.

INTREPID377

You drive 4,000 miles/year. Why would you choose a diesel?

stc1993

Thems rough 4,000 miles pulling a yacht.

electrodog

cadman wrote: »

Why didn't you do this originally when it was not fixed. Then you could have went back with information on your side. I thought all dealers get the Technical Service Bulletins that you see on the internet.

I originally thought that the ICP, which the dealer said "could" be faulty was the problem and decided to change it. When that didn't correct the problem I went right back to the dealer and dropped the truck off and than researched the issue. When I received the "new" diagnosis from Ford I told them don't do anything, I will be right there. Never got a chance to discuss what I found as I was told what needed to be done. (a completely wrong diagnosis again). As far as the TSB's I thought the same thing. I just think the tech was really, really bad.

electrodog

INTREPID377 wrote: »

You drive 4,000 miles/year. Why would you choose a diesel?

I did tow a large boat, (for 1 year). Loved the truck too much to get rid of it and until two weeks ago, it never failed me. Pretty good run of almost 17 years. I have never owned a gas engine with that type of longevity.

electrodog

stc1993 wrote: »

Thems rough 4,000 miles pulling a yacht.

Now its a small skiff or a kayak. No problem towing either.:wink

electrodog

I wanted to share this link and advise any owner of a 7.3 powerstroke to check the wiring harness. Mine had rubbed thru the insulation as shown in the video!

https://youtu.be/O2UvkT9tykw

mustang190

My advice to anyone owning a diesel pickup is to replace the factory fuel/water filter with a appropriate Racor filter/water separator.
The one I had was a piece of garbage, once the warranty was up I replaced it and ended all my problems.

mustang190

electrodog, sounds like your problem is air getting into the fuel system or the injector pump after it sits overnight.
It may sound too simple but I would first go over the fuel system and check for leaks. Tighten fittings that you can find and if all else fails do a pressure test on the fuel system. After 16 years, things start to loosen up.

electrodog

I actually thought it was a "fuel issue" at first. I had changed the fuel filter two weeks prior to my troubles starting. I double checked for leaks and there are none. I would think that if it was a fuel or air issue that it would be more consistent. The problem occurs intermittently which leads me to believe it is/was electrical. Take a look at what I found. Notice the paint worn on the valve cover? After 16 1/2 years the insulation on some of the wires was frayed and making contact with the valve cover leading me to believe this was my issue all along.

mindyabiness

That's good information, nothing I can use, but there are most likely some here who still use that model.
I almost bought one around 2001. I decided I didn't have the need to justify the higher operating costs. No regrets....

electrodog

mindyabiness wrote: »

That's good information, nothing I can use, but there are most likely some here who still use that model.
I almost bought one around 2001. I decided I didn't have the need to justify the higher operating costs. No regrets....

When I bought the truck in 2000, diesel was cheaper than gas by .15 or .20 cents a gallon. I have always done my own routine maintenance and saved a bundle. I think dealers want $120 bucks for an oil change! I honestly don't believe that a diesel, (older ones), have "higher operating costs". Yes, you will pay a premium for the engine, but when you consider re-sale and longevity of the vehicle it makes sense. It has for me, considering I paid 34K and have been offered over 20K for an almost 17 year old vehicle.

mustang190

That may be your problem.
These newer fuel systems and their electrical systems are very sensitive to voltages and resistance.
At least yours doesn't have the regen system like the new ones have. People with these new diesels are in for a rude awakening !

Soda Popinski

Just goes to show how valuable a good mechanic is. I've got one, and he's always busy so we hardly if ever recommend him. He's as closely a guarded secret as good fishing spots. Trust me if he needed the work we would, but the guy is busy 6 days a week, yet somehow he always makes time to look over any issues we have.

These large dealerships usually have the worst mechanics. My wife had brought her 2001 Venza to the dealership because while still under warranty it starter making a noise. They had it for 3 days...THREE DAYS and could not figure it out. Brought it to my mechanic, he took one look under it, reattached a CB boot that had come loose, literally 3 minutes and we're out of there.

pottydoc

Soda Popinski wrote: »

Just goes to show how valuable a good mechanic is. I've got one, and he's always busy so we hardly if ever recommend him. He's as closely a guarded secret as good fishing spots. Trust me if he needed the work we would, but the guy is busy 6 days a week, yet somehow he always makes time to look over any issues we have.

These large dealerships usually have the worst mechanics. My wife had brought her 2001 Venza to the dealership because while still under warranty it starter making a noise. They had it for 3 days...THREE DAYS and could not figure it out. Brought it to my mechanic, he took one look under it, reattached a CB boot that had come loose, literally 3 minutes and we're out of there.

I'll bet he lives out on CR 33.

Soda Popinski

pottydoc wrote: »

I'll bet he lives out on CR 33.

Nope. Close though.

electrodog

Soda Popinski wrote: »

Just goes to show how valuable a good mechanic is. I've got one, and he's always busy so we hardly if ever recommend him. He's as closely a guarded secret as good fishing spots. Trust me if he needed the work we would, but the guy is busy 6 days a week, yet somehow he always makes time to look over any issues we have.

These large dealerships usually have the worst mechanics. My wife had brought her 2001 Venza to the dealership because while still under warranty it starter making a noise. They had it for 3 days...THREE DAYS and could not figure it out. Brought it to my mechanic, he took one look under it, reattached a CB boot that had come loose, literally 3 minutes and we're out of there.

The problem here in South Florida is the population has grown so much many business's just don't care anymore. Customer service is non- existent and poor service is the norm. I actually expected the dealership to at least have qualified mechanics working on vehicles, but apparently that is asking for too much. (at least they think so). We will see how this plays out. I challenged the bill on my credit card and have formally complained to Ford and a few government agencies. I think it is borderline fraud to charge for a repair if you actually didn't perform a repair. I will take your advice and no longer recommend the diesel shop I trust. (noticed I haven't mentioned them in any post's.):wink

Soda Popinski

electrodog wrote: »

The problem here in South Florida is the population has grown so much many business's just don't care anymore. Customer service is non- existent and poor service is the norm. I actually expected the dealership to at least have qualified mechanics working on vehicles, but apparently that is asking for too much. (at least they think so). We will see how this plays out. I challenged the bill on my credit card and have formally complained to Ford and a few government agencies. I think it is borderline fraud to charge for a repair if you actually didn't perform a repair. I will take your advice and no longer recommend the diesel shop I trust. (noticed I haven't mentioned them in any post's.):wink

I absolutely understand. You should be able to challenge the bill on your CC. Because the repairs were not done as stated. You drop off a truck to get problem A fixed. They charge you $1200.00 to fix problem A by replacing parts XYZ. Work done, but problem A is not resolved! Now they want more money to replace parts GIF? Hell no! Fix problem A, that's what the $1200.00 was for in the first place!!! If it costs them more money well tough cookies.

cadman

Soda Popinski wrote: »

I absolutely understand. You should be able to challenge the bill on your CC. Because the repairs were not done as stated. You drop off a truck to get problem A fixed. They charge you $1200.00 to fix problem A by replacing parts XYZ. Work done, but problem A is not resolved! Now they want more money to replace parts GIF? Hell no! Fix problem A, that's what the $1200.00 was for in the first place!!! If it costs them more money well tough cookies.

I doubt the cc dispute will work as work was done. He is disputing the quality of the work. He will likely have to take it to small claims court.

electrodog

cadman wrote: »

I doubt the cc dispute will work as work was done. He is disputing the quality of the work. He will likely have to take it to small claims court.

I am not disputing the quality of work done. I took my vehicle in for a repair. I was charged for a repair and the shop failed to repair the vehicle. When I gave them the chance to rectify the situation they wanted to charge me for a different repair for the exact same symptoms.

Mango Tango

electrodog wrote: »

I am not disputing the quality of work done. I took my vehicle in for a repair. I was charged for a repair and the shop failed to repair the vehicle. When I gave them the chance to rectify the situation they wanted to charge me for a different repair for the exact same symptoms.

A CC dispute is not going to work. You got something for your $$ .....even though you weren't happy with it. After an investigation the CC company will refer you back to the dealer for resolution of your complaint(s).

Soda Popinski

cadman wrote: »

I doubt the cc dispute will work as work was done. He is disputing the quality of the work. He will likely have to take it to small claims court.

The issue I have there Cad is if I go to have something fixed, and it wasn't fixed, what did I pay for? If I'm having fuel problems, and you replace AC lines, why should I have to pay for your incompetence? Doesn't seem right. The ability to correctly diagnose something should be the most important part of auto repair. And some of these shops do just like the OP said, just keep replacing parts until they stumble on to the actual problem.

If you hired me to pave your driveway in concrete and I put sugar sand down....why would you pay me?

electrodog

My dispute with the dealer is based on the fact that I purchased a service- the repair of my truck. Dealer did not provide the service- truck was still broke with the original problem. I attempted to have the dealer rectify the situation but they wanted me to pay additional monies to fix the problem THEY didn't fix the first time.

I will follow and update this post on the progression of my dispute. I personally think that the actions of the dealer are borderline criminal, and their actions/handling of the situation constitute fraud.

mindyabiness

electrodog wrote: »

I did tow a large boat, (for 1 year). Loved the truck too much to get rid of it and until two weeks ago, it never failed me. Pretty good run of almost 17 years. I have never owned a gas engine with that type of longevity.

It only has 63000 miles on it.....are the tires original?

cadman

electrodog wrote: »

I am not disputing the quality of work done. I took my vehicle in for a repair. I was charged for a repair and the shop failed to repair the vehicle. When I gave them the chance to rectify the situation they wanted to charge me for a different repair for the exact same symptoms.

No, you are arguing the quality of the work. In your opinion, they did not fix it. They will dispute that and have a signed invoice showing you agreed to pay for that repair. That is all they have to furnish to the credit card company. It is a civil dispute.

cadman

Soda Popinski wrote: »

The issue I have there Cad is if I go to have something fixed, and it wasn't fixed, what did I pay for? If I'm having fuel problems, and you replace AC lines, why should I have to pay for your incompetence? Doesn't seem right. The ability to correctly diagnose something should be the most important part of auto repair. And some of these shops do just like the OP said, just keep replacing parts until they stumble on to the actual problem.

If you hired me to pave your driveway in concrete and I put sugar sand down....why would you pay me?

No and he can take them to court and sue them for the wrong repair. He will need some evidence, like the old part to prove it was good.

But if you could get out of paying a repair bill by just telling your credit card bank they didn't fix it, then a lot of people would use that to get free repairs.

It is good that he filed the dispute. If VISA or MC gets enough complaints about one merchant, they will review his merchant agreement and find out the problem or stop him from taking credit cards.

Soda Popinski

cadman wrote: »

No and he can take them to court and sue them for the wrong repair. He will need some evidence, like the old part to prove it was good.

But if you could get out of paying a repair bill by just telling your credit card bank they didn't fix it, then a lot of people would use that to get free repairs.

It is good that he filed the dispute. If VISA or MC gets enough complaints about one merchant, they will review his merchant agreement and find out the problem or stop him from taking credit cards.

I've had more than my fair share of bad experiences with dealerships. I hope he gets some kind of resolution. If it was a misdiagnosed repair, then shouldn't they do something for him to get the problem fixed?

cadman

electrodog wrote: »

I did tow a large boat, (for 1 year). Loved the truck too much to get rid of it and until two weeks ago, it never failed me. Pretty good run of almost 17 years. I have never owned a gas engine with that type of longevity.

My Dodge Ram is 11 years old has 20,000 more miles than yours. I have had zero mechanical problems with it I have only had the rear brakes done and the required service. I did have the fan on the A/C unit go bad and get replaced under warranty.

The dealer does all my work. Their prices have been comparable to other shops in the area.

cadman

Soda Popinski wrote: »

I've had more than my fair share of bad experiences with dealerships. I hope he gets some kind of resolution. If it was a misdiagnosed repair, then shouldn't they do something for him to get the problem fixed?

They should, but they may figure he ain't a regular customer and forget him. It sounds like he got it fixed already. At the least they should give him a credit for future work or some free service as a minimum. But a lot depends on the dealer and his customer relationship.

My Dodge dealer service center is very good and I like them. They seem to treat their customers well. Their sales department I was not fond of since they mark up the vehicles above MSRP.