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Guide Fishing and Tips

FishInFLFishInFL Posts: 2,222 Captain
Why do we find ourselves tipping guides when the guide is the owner of the business and they set the price? It's pretty much a requirement when booking a guide that you tip them. I have always wondered why we do this especially when the guide often owns the boat/business and sets the price themself. If the price isn't enough, the guide should adjust the price vs. requesting a tip.

I fully don't question tipping a deckhand or first mate, as they typically don't have ownership in the business and aren't paid well, so solely rely on tips.

Before people start flaming, I have always well tipped guides, servers at restaurants, etc.... Just curious whether others feel this way and wonder the same.

Replies

  • buddy dbuddy d Posts: 134 Deckhand
    Not all guides or customers are the same
    After fishing with several I've narrowed it down to one two, that show more interest, more prepared
    More helpful , and I respond with an appropriate tip

    In return I have found that I usually get called when the bite is on / ask to fill a spot again if the bite is on
    Extra help with the double haul
    Advice with all sorts of issues
    i think we are better off with the tip Just my .02
  • Lucky Hook IILucky Hook II Posts: 525 Officer
    FishInFL wrote: »
    Why do we find ourselves tipping guides when the guide is the owner of the business and they set the price? It's pretty much a requirement when booking a guide that you tip them. I have always wondered why we do this especially when the guide often owns the boat/business and sets the price themself. If the price isn't enough, the guide should adjust the price vs. requesting a tip.

    I fully don't question tipping a deckhand or first mate, as they typically don't have ownership in the business and aren't paid well, so solely rely on tips.

    Before people start flaming, I have always well tipped guides, servers at restaurants, etc.... Just curious whether others feel this way and wonder the same.


    Not all guides require or request tips. Tips are appreciate but not required, I will do my best to get customer on fish not because they may tip me but that's what I enjoy doing.
    Capt. Jorge Fernandez
    www.luckyhookcharters.com
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,931 AG
    Maybe just me...but I *NEVER* feel obligated to tip regardless of the person or situation... I tip according to one criteria only.
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • dcrdcr Posts: 365 Deckhand
    I too have a criterion and I bet it's the same one. I once had a guide I did not tip, and once I tipped about 40% because my expectations for the trip were so greatly exceeded and I recognized that I just had the fishing experience of a lifetime.
  • ChasinPoonChasinPoon Posts: 85 Deckhand
    I don't require tips however I do greatly appreciate them. My prices are set so that even with no tip I will still maintain a profit margin that I need to stay in business. When I'm fortunate to recieve a tip (almost always) I am very appreciative and humbled that the client recognizes my efforts for the day. When this subject comes I always recommened to folks they tip based on the effort of the guide/crew not on the size or amount of the fish caught.

    Now on trips in which I use a mate, I make sure I explain to the client at booking that the mate works for tips only and will be recieving 100% of the tips for the day.
    Fly 'Em High Charters
    Capt. Bobby Woodard
    www.Captain-Bobby.com
  • Austins26Austins26 Posts: 1,989 Captain
    Here We Go Again
    The Original HOTD poster
    680k views 360 plus posts Deleted by a so called Mod over a little cleavage

    member since Oct 1998 long before most of You
  • SizuperSizuper Posts: 293 Deckhand
    When you think about your question of tipping, remember this:

    Tipping is not for the trip you just took; it's for the future trips.

    If you've ever frequented a bar, this dynamic will make sense. You give a big tip to a bartender, and the next time you probably won't pay for many drinks. I went a few years there in my bar-hopping days without ever buying a drink - I paid in tips. I paid less, they got more, the house feels no pain because drinks are at about a 700% markup. I don't bar-hop anymore but you should see the mountains of toppings I get on my tacos and other food at places I tip well and get to know the folks behind the counter.

    If you tip a guide well, the next trip he'll likely put you on his best spots. Tip well and make conversation and he might even shoot you a text when the next bite is on, even if you're not going to charter.

    It's just how things are done in any industry that has tipping.
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,931 AG
    Sizuper wrote: »
    When you think about your question of tipping, remember this:

    Tipping is not for the trip you just took; it's for the future trips.

    If you've ever frequented a bar, this dynamic will make sense. You give a big tip to a bartender, and the next time you probably won't pay for many drinks. I went a few years there in my bar-hopping days without ever buying a drink - I paid in tips. I paid less, they got more, the house feels no pain because drinks are at about a 700% markup.

    You obviously have never been an owner in a service industry that uses those types of servers.... and while what you said does happen in some sloppily run systems...In ones with better oversite...those type bar tenders/barmaids are quickly and easily discovered today...and fired.
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • Austins26Austins26 Posts: 1,989 Captain
    I agree with Duck Siz what you describe is stealing ( cause for immediate termination, charged, arrested, an convicted)


    duckmanJR wrote: »
    You obviously have never been an owner in a service industry that uses those types of servers.... and while what you said does happen in some sloppily run systems...In ones with better oversite...those type bar tenders/barmaids are quickly and easily discovered today...and fired.
    The Original HOTD poster
    680k views 360 plus posts Deleted by a so called Mod over a little cleavage

    member since Oct 1998 long before most of You
  • MRichardsonMRichardson Posts: 10,438 AG
    Tipping introduces a performance-based incentive on the guide, whether he's the owner of the business or not.
    So if the rate for a trip is $650, that's the minimum for taking you out and looking for fish and putting up
    with your nonsense all day. If he doesn't do any more than that, you pay $650. If he makes it a trip of a lifetime,
    you should tip him accordingly. It really puts the ball in your court, it doesn't really benefit the guides at all to include
    a discretionary portion to the compensation structure.
    I have never seen live bones, but I know that they are often used by rich people to decorate the interior.
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,931 AG
    Austins26 wrote: »
    I agree with Duck Siz what you describe is stealing ( cause for immediate termination, charged, arrested, an convicted)

    Nice to know that there are young people who understand what theft entails.... Good for you Austin!
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • duckmanJRduckmanJR Posts: 20,931 AG
    Tipping introduces a performance-based incentive on the guide, whether he's the owner of the business or not.
    So if the rate for a trip is $650, that's the minimum for taking you out and looking for fish and putting up
    with your nonsense all day. If he doesn't do any more than that, you pay $650. If he makes it a trip of a lifetime,
    you should tip him accordingly. It really puts the ball in your court, it doesn't really benefit the guides at all to include
    a discretionary portion to the compensation structure.

    Most *real* guides...stay within the areas accepted fee structure....
    If someone makes a strong effort...it should see a reward...
    There are many roads to travel
    Many things to do.
    Knots to be unraveled
    'fore the darkness falls on you
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,010 AG
    The whole "I'm bringing someone to help me provide you a service but I'm not going to pay him, you should" has always struck a cord with me, as do sole proprietors who expect tips on top of their fee.

    I'm not averse to tipping for extraordinary results or efforts -- no matter if the service is a plumber or a guide -- but it's the expectation that bothers me.
  • FishInFLFishInFL Posts: 2,222 Captain
    duckmanJR wrote: »
    Most *real* guides...stay within the areas accepted fee structure....
    If someone makes a strong effort...it should see a reward...

    Yeah they get repeat business at the cost they advertise at
  • FinfinderFinfinder Posts: 9,999 Admiral
    Tarponator wrote: »
    The whole "I'm bringing someone to help me provide you a service but I'm not going to pay him, you should" has always struck a cord with me, as do sole proprietors who expect tips on top of their fee.
    .

    I don't think that how it started, I bet it originated by the mate saying Ill work for tips.
  • kmagnusskmagnuss Posts: 3,237 Captain
    ...
    Tarpon... everything else is just bait.
    Captain Keith - Crooked Rod Charters
  • Soda PopinskiSoda Popinski GrovelandPosts: 13,290 AG
    duckmanJR wrote: »
    Nice to know that there are young people who understand what theft entails.... Good for you Austin!

    I owned a restaurant.....your employees from the kitchen to the front door will rob you blind if you're not there watching everything.

    It's hard not to take it personally when you see someone skimming drinks for a better tip, they're giving away my money to put it in their own pocket. I hate servers. Bartenders too. One girl was costing me 3 bottles of crown royal a week then had the nerve to act surprised when i fired her.
    Like is like a Helicopter.  I do not know how to operate a Helicopter  
  • SizuperSizuper Posts: 293 Deckhand
    duckmanJR wrote: »
    You obviously have never been an owner in a service industry that uses those types of servers.... and while what you said does happen in some sloppily run systems...In ones with better oversite...those type bar tenders/barmaids are quickly and easily discovered today...and fired.


    That has not been the case in my experience. And I have owned service industry joints with tipped employees (Deli/bar and ice cream shop). I'd tell them directly when hired that they have some personal discretion with that sort of thing, but not to make it a habit and don't do it with friends. Reason being that people who get a few free drinks usually bring a lot of friends with them. And if they don't, you stop the free drinks.

    Also, all servers, bartenders, line workers, etc., are going to skim some. Better to control it somewhemat to your benefit. I've found that proprietors that treat their employees like Russian citizens under KGB surveillance and constant threat of termination or prosecution...well they don't stay in business very long because they can't keep good help. Who'd want to work for people like that?

    I understand what you're saying, of course, and everyone has their own level of tolerance or comfort with it. And in any case you can't let it get out of hand. But you hope to control that in the hiring process. Still, nobody is a perfect applicant judge, which is why I always made the guidelines clear so if someone abused it, there would be no surprises when action was taken (never was in my case).
  • SizuperSizuper Posts: 293 Deckhand
    I owned a restaurant.....your employees from the kitchen to the front door will rob you blind if you're not there watching everything.

    It's hard not to take it personally when you see someone skimming drinks for a better tip, they're giving away my money to put it in their own pocket. I hate servers. Bartenders too. One girl was costing me 3 bottles of crown royal a week then had the nerve to act surprised when i fired her.

    That's sort of the point I was making. You hate the people who work for you? Sociologically speaking, your attitude toward them likely increased their theft. Out of spite. It's your shop so you can run it any way you want, but creating a hostile work environment is always asking for trouble. Certainly eliminates employee loyalty that usually becomes the little voice in their heads telling them not to do it.

    They did an interesting study a number of years back on Wal Mart and K-Mary management styles, back when they were equals in the marketplace. They documented that K-Mart treated their employees like criminals, expecting them to steal, and enforced monitoring and locker searches and surveillance cameras and frequent announcements of penalties if they steal and other procedures to make sure K-Mart employees always knew they were watching and suspicious. WM conversely treated their employees with much more trust and respect, without all the heavy-handed big brother stuff. As a result, WM had very high employee loyalty and satisfaction, despite the low pay and no health benefits. KMart scored off the table in sat and loyalty and they of course are all but extinct as a business now.
  • Soda PopinskiSoda Popinski GrovelandPosts: 13,290 AG
    I was very good to my employees, in fact i didn't fire one i caught stealing beer right from the tap. so don't think because i hate them now that's how it was. I was nice to a fault, they ruined me. Throwing steaks in cryovac in the garbage, then fishing them out later. Don't turn this around on the people trying to run businesses. They were skimming and stealing and I should have pressed charges. But like I said was good to them to a fault.

    A girl was writing in tips on credit cards, who do you think had to reimburse over 20 people out of the till? Yeah i fired her but the damage to the restaurant's reputation was done. People who steal should be prosecuted. Work honest and you'll never have to worry about a hostile environment.
    Like is like a Helicopter.  I do not know how to operate a Helicopter  
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