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Now or Neverglades Sportfishing Day.....Tallahassee April 11th, 2017

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  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 12,735 AG
    swarthiness?
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • toomertoomer Posts: 348 Deckhand
    The English teacher in me couldn't resist:

    Swarthy means dark skinned. If you like tall, dark and handsome men, you find a swarthy complexion attractive. Not everyone with dark skin is swarthy. The word is usually used to describe someone whose skin is weather beaten and darkened by the sun, or has an olive complexion. (Vocabulary.com)

    Now, why they put it in the add I have no clue.
  • surfmansurfman WC FLPosts: 6,022 Admiral
    Maybe they don't like white people, I hear that is a thing these days.
    Tight Lines, Steve
    My posts are my opinion only.

    Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for.  Will Rogers
  • I have spent the last 10 weeks in STA 2 doing inspection of structures. These areas are very productive, the size of the bass we see in the closed areas is amazing. Gators, by the hundreds, ducks, deer, and some of the biggest schools of the larges tilapia that I have ever seen.

    OK to business at hand, The New Reservoir:

    You guys do know we had a 50,000 acre reservoir being built but it was stopped by the judge because it benefited sugar as water storage for them, more or less.

    So it sits there and has been for years. 1/2 is pretreatment for STA 3/4, the other half was leased to Big Sugar for crops.

    So where is the money for this one? Adding 50,000 acres of water storage near term rather than the ten years it would take to get a new one up and running from scratch. Heck the lawyer will tie up the sale for years! Especially if they "take" the land.

    And then there are many water control project already designed for North of the big lake that could be on track much faster than anything new. Oh and you have the completion of the C-44 reservoir in sight.

    So really? Another one to start an never finish?

    Oh how about Site One Impoundment? 1700 acre reservoir for the Hillsborough canal discharge our of Loxahatchee. That one cost over $75 million in construction of 1 or three main levees and it wasn't a new build, just a rebuild. It was one of those "shovel ready" projects, but nothing else has even been designed! Rest of the Levees, Inflow pump stations, outflow pump stations, Internal levees, control structures.

    Does the federal government or the overwhelmed State government need more projects to handle right now?

    Or do we drop all of them in process and push all the money to a new one?
  • Flatwater witchFlatwater witch Posts: 606 Officer
    I have spent the last 10 weeks in STA 2 doing inspection of structures. These areas are very productive, the size of the bass we see in the closed areas is amazing. Gators, by the hundreds, ducks, deer, and some of the biggest schools of the larges tilapia that I have ever seen.

    OK to business at hand, The New Reservoir:

    You guys do know we had a 50,000 acre reservoir being built but it was stopped by the judge because it benefited sugar as water storage for them, more or less.

    So it sits there and has been for years. 1/2 is pretreatment for STA 3/4, the other half was leased to Big Sugar for crops.

    So where is the money for this one? Adding 50,000 acres of water storage near term rather than the ten years it would take to get a new one up and running from scratch. Heck the lawyer will tie up the sale for years! Especially if they "take" the land.

    And then there are many water control project already designed for North of the big lake that could be on track much faster than anything new. Oh and you have the completion of the C-44 reservoir in sight.

    So really? Another one to start an never finish?

    Oh how about Site One Impoundment? 1700 acre reservoir for the Hillsborough canal discharge our of Loxahatchee. That one cost over $75 million in construction of 1 or three main levees and it wasn't a new build, just a rebuild. It was one of those "shovel ready" projects, but nothing else has even been designed! Rest of the Levees, Inflow pump stations, outflow pump stations, Internal levees, control structures.

    Does the federal government or the overwhelmed State government need more projects to handle right now?

    Or do we drop all of them in process and push all the money to a new one?

    Well said Ron.

    There are several projections in a better position to raise water quality more timely, but the special interests want their own boondoggle
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 12,735 AG
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 12,735 AG
    Are y'all gonna shoot at the pipelines on the way?
    http://www.gainesville.com/news/20170226/shots-at-sabal-trail-pipeline-lead-to-chase-fatal-shooting
    Most of your grassroot supporters are kinda whack jobs like this one..

    "Rushing Attack I'm sure he'll get right on that.

    That orange sex offender is more likely to sign an executive order requiring that all used motor oil be dumped there because he feels like an alligator treated him unfairly once. Sad!"
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 12,735 AG
    Maybe a bunch of you folks that the flood control protects out to move back to where you came from?
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • ANUMBER1 wrote: »
    Are y'all gonna shoot at the pipelines on the way?
    http://www.gainesville.com/news/20170226/shots-at-sabal-trail-pipeline-lead-to-chase-fatal-shooting
    Most of your grassroot supporters are kinda whack jobs like this one..

    "Rushing Attack I'm sure he'll get right on that.

    That orange sex offender is more likely to sign an executive order requiring that all used motor oil be dumped there because he feels like an alligator treated him unfairly once. Sad!"

    Idiots are complaining about a natural gas pipeline. I'm pretty sure thats not going to leak and contaminate the water!
  • DPrestonDPreston Posts: 153 Officer
    Not sure what a gas line protestor getting shot has to do with our fishing issues. Thought this was a fishing board. Anyways, I'll be up in Tallahassee next week with many others who are actually doing something to try to fix this thing so we can get back to more fishing and less b*tching. But you guys keep on doing whatever it is that you do - clearly it's working.

    BTW just a few of the groups that have signed the NowOrNeverglades declaration in support of storage south of Lake O NOW:

    Florida Sportsman
    FL Keys Guides Association
    IGFA
    Yeti
    Costa del Mar
    Patagonia
    Contender Boats
    Sea Hunter Boats
    Mustad
    Simms
    Rapala
    Aftco
    DOA Lures
    Hell's Bay
    MirrOlure
    Yozuri
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 12,735 AG
    Just saying that groups like bullsugar and stop Sabal Trail Pipeline seem to attract a good # of whackos and it won't be long before a member of your group will break the law.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • DPrestonDPreston Posts: 153 Officer
    Got it - thanks for the advice. And yes there are some pretty upset people out there right now whose lives are being adversely affected by our water issues. The young guides in Islamorada - $40-$50k invested in skiff, just married, new house, young baby or kid on the way. Now, no fish in the bay, and second guessing their life decisions. People do get emotional when their livelihoods are being attacked. Fished with Capt. Craig Brewer in the bay last week. He has been a Keys guide since 1987. His dad was a Keys guide in the bay until he did in a plane crash in the mid-70's. Craig's words: "I used to say I would guide until I fell off the back of the boat....now I might have to start thinking about other plans."
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 12,735 AG
    DPreston wrote: »
    Got it - thanks for the advice. And yes there are some pretty upset people out there right now whose lives are being adversely affected by our water issues. The young guides in Islamorada - $40-$50k invested in skiff, just married, new house, young baby or kid on the way. Now, no fish in the bay, and second guessing their life decisions. People do get emotional when their livelihoods are being attacked. Fished with Capt. Craig Brewer in the bay last week. He has been a Keys guide since 1987. His dad was a Keys guide in the bay until he did in a plane crash in the mid-70's. Craig's words: "I used to say I would guide until I fell off the back of the boat....now I might have to start thinking about other plans."
    Oh well, lot of good Fl folks felt that same way in 1995 with the net ban.
    Suck it up.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • DPrestonDPreston Posts: 153 Officer
    I am sure they did - change is never an easy thing, but sometimes the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
  • DarcyDarcy Posts: 1,711 Captain
    ANUMBER1 wrote: »
    Just saying that groups like bullsugar and stop Sabal Trail Pipeline seem to attract a good # of whackos and it won't be long before a member of your group will break the law.



    ANUMBER1. Your being a real jerk, with your ASSumptions, and your little violence by association with certain groups troll.
    Don't think even Gary would agree with your childish little games, if he was here. Lol.
    Just sayin. Yeesh.
    "No i'm NOT Darcizzle!":blowkiss


    https://captainsforcleanwater.org
  • FS BlairFS Blair Posts: 1,858 Admin
    DPreston wrote: »

    How about we get back to Dave's reason for posting the announcement, who is interested in attending? Who would like to go to Tallahassee to let our elected officials hear how you feel about the destruction of our estuaries?

    Who's in? Anyone?
  • Pucker FactorPucker Factor Posts: 875 Officer
    Worth the time to read.


    http://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/os-ed-everglades-efforts-stray-from-original-dream-20170303-story.html

    Everglades leaders straying from her father's dream of saving the River of Grass

    Catherine Barley-Albertini
    Guest Columnist
    My father, George Barley, never ceased to amaze me with his passion for nature. He took my mother, Shirley, and sisters Lauren and Mary and me out in it often, and our family vacations centered around it. He taught us to love and protect nature and wildlife.

    Although I live in California, I visit Florida frequently and appreciate its delicate ecosystem. If my father were alive, he would be appalled at today’s political, economic and scientific shenanigans. Almost 22 years after his death, nothing has really changed, despite people at his funeral promising to fight for his cause. He was wealthy, but he was an extremely conservative, low-key person who lived modestly. More than anything else, he demanded honesty and stopped at nothing to find the truth. He instilled that precious trait in me. While he wasn’t able to realize his dream, I feel an obligation to help fulfill it.

    He never wavered in his pursuit of mitigating environmental damage to the Everglades. Protecting and restoring the “River of Grass” and his beloved Florida Bay were goals he relentlessly pursued, even as he died while traveling to meet the Corps of Engineers that fateful day. Still greatly respected today, his name is nearly synonymous with the historic Everglades restoration that has been underway for nearly three decades.

    Sadly, his dream of saving the Everglades is slipping away, as that focus has been replaced by the battle pitting coastal environmental groups against agriculture over damaging Lake Okeechobee discharges.

    Much to our dismay, current environmentalism is just another special interest relying on glitzy galas, well-heeled lobbyists and paid staffers to spread its messages. Where my father used his passion to urge the public and private sectors and our political leaders to come together to take action, today’s activists are spreading a message of hate and division.

    My father’s battle with farmers was to ensure that those responsible for pollution paid their fair share. He fought for stricter water-quality requirements and for farmers helping to restore the Everglades. He’d be happy that sugar-cane farmers are cleaning their water and paying their fair share of restoration. Mostly, he’d have been thrilled with the incredible progress today with more natural water flow and more than 90 percent of the Everglades meeting strict clean-water standards.

    Despite this progress, today’s Everglades Foundation, the organization that he founded, has strayed far from my father’s mission. False science is again pushing false solutions. I’ve conducted extensive research and talked to many scientists regarding the extensive flooding of Florida Bay with excess nitrogen in the 1990s — creating massive algae blooms and wildlife mortality. In this my father was misled by scientists Jay Zieman and Ron Jones. Now folks are callously dismissing the generational family farming communities south of Lake Okeechobee, calling to flood their land and the Everglades.

    I don’t know where my father would stand on Lake Okeechobee discharges, but I know he was focused on keeping the Everglades from further harm. My father would never support a plan to send massive amounts of polluted lake water south to the Everglades when it was already too full. He would consider the issue more comprehensively, balancing the entire ecosystem, north, south and central, while considering the complex and comprehensive effects of the many septic systems as well as the effects of nitrogen, fertilizers, pollution and pesticides from our air and soil.

    He would have hired experienced and accurate scientists and weighed their opinions in making a decision. When it comes to humans, flora and fauna, there is no room for error.

    Getting the proper timing, quantity and quality and more natural conveyance of water south has been the focus on literally billions of dollars of state and federal monies. With development, the remaining Everglades is half its original size and rerouting hundreds of billions of gallons of nutrient-rich Lake Okeechobee water south has never been a part of Everglades restoration. It sounds simple, but sending that much additional lake water south would destroy what’s left of the Everglades.

    The Everglades Foundation that my father founded has badly lost its way under the current leadership, including my stepmother and board member Mary Barley and co-founder and board member Paul Tudor Jones. Rather than keeping momentum for Everglades restoration moving forward and ensuring funding is not lost to other priorities, they have abandoned my father’s dreams for their agenda.

    Damaging discharges to the estuaries need to be addressed, and we need to keep that water out of the lake and out of the estuaries. However, the solution to those problems CANNOT come at the expense of the recovering Everglades.

    The current debate playing out in the Florida Legislature must stay focused on solutions that continue real restoration. We have only one Everglades.

    Catherine Barley-Albertini lives in Cardiff-by-the-Sea, Calif., and is a freelance writer and columnist, and an investment strategist in commercial real estate.

    Copyright © 2017, Orlando Sentinel
    Florida Legislature
  • DPrestonDPreston Posts: 153 Officer
    Pucker/Adam, the owner of FL Sportsman just asked that we keep this thread relevant to the April 11th event in Tallahassee, and you post this garbage immediately thereafter? Wow...
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 12,735 AG
    wow! it was posted before?

    HI Dave!
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 12,735 AG
    DPreston wrote: »
    Pucker/Adam, the owner of FL Sportsman just asked that we keep this thread relevant to the April 11th event in Tallahassee, and you post this garbage immediately thereafter? Wow...
    pucker's post isn't garbage, just stating the obvious.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • I does absolutely no good to buy the land if we do not have the money to make it a reservoir!

    You magazine writers live in a bubble! I have been working on these projects since 1994 and many great projects are in the pike, BUT there is insufficient funding to build the projects,

    So lets let a bunch of bad magazine writers convince us to start something else we will not finish!

    Let C44 reservoir come on line!
    Fund a redesign of the EAA reservoir!
    Fund projects in line that are required to make the system work!

    Oh, FS and get better at making a magazine that is worth the cost and appeals to Florida sportsman!

    This crap of thinking the "big names" from FS know better than the Engineers and Scientists is getting as old as this forum!!
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 12,735 AG
    I does absolutely no good to buy the land if we do not have the money to make it a reservoir!

    You magazine writers live in a bubble! I have been working on these projects since 1994 and many great projects are in the pike, BUT there is insufficient funding to build the projects,

    So lets let a bunch of bad magazine writers convince us to start something else we will not finish!

    Let C44 reservoir come on line!
    Fund a redesign of the EAA reservoir!
    Fund projects in line that are required to make the system work!

    Oh, FS and get better at making a magazine that is worth the cost and appeals to Florida sportsman!

    This crap of thinking the "big names" from FS know better than the Engineers and Scientists is getting as old as this forum!!

    We don't always agree but you make a lot of sense here.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • DPrestonDPreston Posts: 153 Officer
    Ron, I assume you are familiar with Amendment One? Passed by 75% of the voters?
  • DPrestonDPreston Posts: 153 Officer
    And thanks for the cameo ANUMBER1...glad we are getting back to the fishing conversation!
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 12,735 AG
    DPreston wrote: »
    Ron, I assume you are familiar with Amendment One? Passed by 75% of the voters?
    Yes and most of that 75% were hoodwinked thinking that Amend.1 would be used to keep pristine land from development.
    Just my thought would be to use some of that money to replace aging and failing sewage/septic systems north of the lake therefore sending cleaner water south to start with.
    That ain't gonna happen though.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • FS BlairFS Blair Posts: 1,858 Admin
    I does absolutely no good to buy the land if we do not have the money to make it a reservoir!

    You magazine writers live in a bubble! I have been working on these projects since 1994 and many great projects are in the pike, BUT there is insufficient funding to build the projects,

    So lets let a bunch of bad magazine writers convince us to start something else we will not finish!

    Let C44 reservoir come on line!
    Fund a redesign of the EAA reservoir!
    Fund projects in line that are required to make the system work!

    Oh, FS and get better at making a magazine that is worth the cost and appeals to Florida sportsman!

    This crap of thinking the "big names" from FS know better than the Engineers and Scientists is getting as old as this forum!!

    [email protected] Special, it seems your day got off to a bad start, lots of negativity going on. I would have responded sooner, but I've been busy trying to make the magazine better....as I do everyday.

    As for the science behind stopping the discharges and getting more water into the Everglades, it seems settled to me. Over 200 scientists agree we need to do it. The Army Corp came up with Plan 6 to create the flowway in 1994. Congress approved Component G of CERP to create the reservoirs in the EAA to create the flowway in 1999. No one here at the magazine came up with those plans, but we agree with the experts who worked on those plans.
  • FS Blair wrote: »
    [email protected] Special, it seems your day got off to a bad start, lots of negativity going on. I would have responded sooner, but I've been busy trying to make the magazine better....as I do everyday.

    As for the science behind stopping the discharges and getting more water into the Everglades, it seems settled to me. Over 200 scientists agree we need to do it. The Army Corp came up with Plan 6 to create the flowway in 1994. Congress approved Component G of CERP to create the reservoirs in the EAA to create the flowway in 1999. No one here at the magazine came up with those plans, but we agree with the experts who worked on those plans.

    Its simple Blair, Finish the projects already started and you will see results. Too many people want to start something new while millions of dollars of projects are unfinished!

    Blair, while you sit in the office, I live these projects!

    So what is better, spending millions of dollars to buy more land??? Or spend millions to finish the 50,000 acre EAA reservoir project?

    Buying another 60,000 acres is great and I mean that, but do we then let it sit next to the unfinished EAA reservoir while there is no money left to build either of them?

    You can find many scientists that will agree that we should get rid of all sugar and make the entire area water storage. Great, tell us where we get the money to build it out?

    Oh and then where do we get the money to operate it. That is one thing that has been missing for years. The Corp of Engineers builds them and the State of Florida ie SFWMD has to find the funds to operate them.

    Do you magazine writers have any idea how much it costs to run the pump stations and water control structures? Nope!

    Contact me and I will take you on a tour of some of these projects and show you what is working and what is unfinished!

    Here is one up by you, Ten Mile Creek water preserve. We built that in early 2000 and it never was put into operation due to design flaws that we warned the Corp of Engineers about when we built it. Finally the State thru SFWMD is fixing it an maybe, just maybe it might come on line this next season. check it our at the intersection where I-95 and the Turnpike come together in Ft. Pierce.

    Like I said, and many scientists and other engineers agree with me, FINISH WHAT WE STARTED FIRST!

    You know what will happen if we buy up the next section of farmland? I can tell you what will happen, the state will lease it back to Big Sugar for the next 20 years while we design, build, and try to find the funds to operate it, while other projects that can be brought on line faster fight for funding!

    If you are going to push this with the magazine, don't forget the money to finish what we started before we start another one that we can't fund to completion!

    Blair, its just reality, just not enough money to make all of it happen.
  • FS BlairFS Blair Posts: 1,858 Admin
    Ron, a lot of what you say is probably true, or half true, I honestly couldn't tell you. But, I do believe the scientists, engineers and biologists that say we can't continue the way we are if we want to save our estuaries. We created the mess when we over drained the Everglades, we're going to have to fix it. And right now, the projects that are funded and/or underway won't stop the discharges.

    I'm not sure 60,000 new acres are necessary, but I am sure the water needs to go south.

    Ron, you sound like you're familiar with the various projects in the works, currently and proposed, do the math, will they stop nearly a trillion gallons of water? It's a simple math equation, add up the gallons for projects like Ten Mile Creek, C-44 and the rest. What do you come up with? I look forward to seeing what you find.
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