Why are commercial boats allowed to **** the gulf?
HighTidesDrifter
Posts: 105 Officer
A good friend of mine told me that last weekend he rode out with another friend of mine (who I haven't seen in years) to check in on his commercial boat as they were unloading their catch at a fish camp near Venice, Fl. He was telling me that it was quite an experience and one that he would not soon forget. He said the crew unloaded 2,300 lbs of grouper and over 300 lbs of snapper which they said was quite a bit below their norm. I asked him when they're going out again and he said in just a couple days as soon as the cold front is through. I'm sure this has been debated here before but how in the world can these commercial guys just go out and haul in these insane amounts of fish while the average Joe Shmo has to look at the most current regs to see if he can keep just a couple of fish? I used to like to go offshore with a buddy I know but with these ridiculous regulations now I haven't been out in several years. To say that something is completely out of whack would be the understatement of the decade. :mad
Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
"The main vice of capitalism is the unequal distribution of prosperity. The main vice of socialism is the equal distribution of misery." -Winston Churchill
"The main vice of capitalism is the unequal distribution of prosperity. The main vice of socialism is the equal distribution of misery." -Winston Churchill
Replies
Thank goodness for those guys!
"The main vice of capitalism is the unequal distribution of prosperity. The main vice of socialism is the equal distribution of misery." -Winston Churchill
"The main vice of capitalism is the unequal distribution of prosperity. The main vice of socialism is the equal distribution of misery." -Winston Churchill
:grin
Should be good.
This ball was just teed up too high.
Deer, dove, quail, (humans) etc are K Strategists - they produce a limited number of offspring and invest time in them to insure survival of the species. They also tend to take a long time to reach sexual maturity.
Most fish and many plants (oak trees for example), are R Strategists - they produce a ton of offspring and invest little time in them with the hope that enough will survive to insure survival of the species. They also tend to reach sexual maturity at a young age.
K Strategists don't respond well to commercial or recreational over harvest. R Strategists respond much better.
Most fish species have annual commercial and annual recreational quotas. Once the quota is reached, fishing for that particular species is stopped for the remainder of that year. The Gulf is managed differently than the Atlantic when it comes to grouper and snapper quotas. Snapper/Grouper commercial fishermen in the Gulf fish under Individual Fishing Quotas (either obtained in an initial allocation based on past fishing history or purchased/leased from other commercial fishermen) while Grouper/Snapper commercial fishermen in the Atlantic fish under daily trip limits. In either location however, once the annual collective quota is reached, fishing stops for the remainder of that season. Whether you agree with commercial fishing, annual trips limits, initial allocations, share of the total harvest (between rec and comm) or not, one point that really can't be debated is that commercial harvests are much more accurately measured than recreational harvests. Commercial fishermen are in it to sell their catch and those catches are recorded at the point of sale. As compared to the recreational side, overall quotas are tracked timely and accurately on the commercial side. Sure, a fish house here and there could cook the books if they wanted to but I have not seen it in my admittedly limited experience. Tracking recreational harvests is **** near impossible so we must rely on the Fishery Management Councils' statistical sampling/regression analysis to estimate overall harvest. This process is subject to extreme bias and is highly debatable.
My recommendation would be to focus your energies on getting the councils to fix the mess they call the recreational fishery statistical sampling system (I forget the acronym). Attacking commercial fishermen really only serves to divide all fishermen - a goal that many within the fishery management system are striving for.
-- Tug McGraw on getting a raise
Get Down Fishing Charters - Port Canaveral, Florida
Fishing beautiful Destin / Ft Walton Beach area!
"The main vice of capitalism is the unequal distribution of prosperity. The main vice of socialism is the equal distribution of misery." -Winston Churchill
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Bad thing is you taught us well, you won't win this one, not in our lifetime..:grin
JMO
Them sure do sound like fightin words by the "anumber1TROLL" :cool
"The main vice of capitalism is the unequal distribution of prosperity. The main vice of socialism is the equal distribution of misery." -Winston Churchill
Time will tell. The fresh breeze that is about to blow through Washington seems to already have the Enviro`s about to poop their pants. I know that there are many pressing issues that need to be addressed, but eventually the mismanagement of the Gulf will make it to the table. The fact that the Trump boys are active recreational anglers will surley help.
Should be an interesting next few years.
I didn't know Trump was an angler.
Can't hurt:shrug
Pretty soon it won't matter anyway, between lionfish, goliath grouper, oil spills, growing dead zones, increasing ocean acidity, and overpopulation/develpement/destruction of estuaries there won't be any fisheries left - commercial or otherwise.
And all the commercial guys will turn on themselves as the resource dries up - because yeah, for them it is all about the benjamins. So if they were smart they should point more of their lobbying dollars and time/efforts towards conservation and less on making enemies out of rec anglers. But it is just a commodity to them - though a natural resource that belongs to everyone - bought/sold to the highest bidder/most connected. But apparently you haven't learned that lesson yet - just fish until there are fish no more as long as I get mine right ANUMBER1?
Gettinwet brought up a good point about the Goliath/Jewfish. These nasty and full of worms, worthless behemoths, have without question taken over every single reef in the gulf. If a friend of mine (who used to have an offshore boat but sold it because of the regs) could catch 6 Jewfish on one single reef if he decided to target them, then it's safe to say that they have become a major reason for declining grouper/snapper populations. There's a reason why the old timers used to kill every one they caught.
If these commercial guys were smart, they would use some of their money/lobbying power to convince the powers at be that these fish have become a nuisance whose numbers should be drastically reduced.
"The main vice of capitalism is the unequal distribution of prosperity. The main vice of socialism is the equal distribution of misery." -Winston Churchill
This could get good:Popcorn
I lobby for commercial though. I don't care how many fish the recs catch.
For a sustainable commercial fishery yes..................for a properly managed recreational fishery no.........just like red grouper, swordfish, tuna, etc., etc..........
Yeah, but the elephant in the room is also what we most have in common............fishing by definition requires fish..............destruction of habitat/estuaries.......pollution.........oil spills..........coral bleaching.........sea acidity............overfishing........illegal fishing.........fishing methods that result in excessive by and undersize catch and/or damage the environment..........sustainability...............these are the real issues we should be working together to resolve rather than continue the status quo and fight over the ever shrinking pie.
So what is it you have a beef with? Commercial fisherman "****" the Gulf or Jewfish?
Again, and in the spirit of the title of this thread that you created, I think your rage is mis-targeted. Focus on getting the regulators to come up with an accurate way of measuring recreational harvest. We don't have this on the rec side at the moment and it is, in my opinion, one of the biggest reasons for the draconian measures being levied against us.
-- Tug McGraw on getting a raise
Get Down Fishing Charters - Port Canaveral, Florida
That is the key. I am not anti commercial when managed properly. At least the commercials have accountability (for the most part) through the sales process. There isn't anyway to measure recreational catches unless a honor system was implemented. This would lead to another question and perhaps a topic for another thread. How many recreational fishermen would report all of the fish harvested? Released fish should be counted also as there is a certain mortality percentage depending on fishing methods and depth.
Perhaps a poll could be taken.
“Everyone behaves badly--given the chance.”
― Ernest Hemingway
My beef is with both. I only commented on the Jewfish because gettinwet brought it up as one of the factors impacting the fishery. Do they have quite as big of an impact as the commercials? Who knows. But I beg of you to answer me this. How is a "regulator keeping track of recreational harvest" going to keep a grouper or snapper ending up on a long line as part of 2,600 lbs of fish being dumped at a fish camp? :huh. Not to mention all the undersized fish which were discarded and all the bycatch as well.
"The main vice of capitalism is the unequal distribution of prosperity. The main vice of socialism is the equal distribution of misery." -Winston Churchill