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Why are commercial boats allowed to **** the gulf?

A good friend of mine told me that last weekend he rode out with another friend of mine (who I haven't seen in years) to check in on his commercial boat as they were unloading their catch at a fish camp near Venice, Fl. He was telling me that it was quite an experience and one that he would not soon forget. He said the crew unloaded 2,300 lbs of grouper and over 300 lbs of snapper which they said was quite a bit below their norm. I asked him when they're going out again and he said in just a couple days as soon as the cold front is through. I'm sure this has been debated here before but how in the world can these commercial guys just go out and haul in these insane amounts of fish while the average Joe Shmo has to look at the most current regs to see if he can keep just a couple of fish? I used to like to go offshore with a buddy I know but with these ridiculous regulations now I haven't been out in several years. To say that something is completely out of whack would be the understatement of the decade. :mad
Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

"The main vice of capitalism is the unequal distribution of prosperity. The main vice of socialism is the equal distribution of misery." -Winston Churchill
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Replies

  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 11,625 AG
    I bought some scamp last week, it was great.

    Thank goodness for those guys!
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • HighTidesDrifterHighTidesDrifter Posts: 105 Officer
    I sure wish they would start commercial bird hunting in Fl. There is no reason why I shouldn't be able to order dove, quail, or pheasant at my favorite restaurant. Recreational bird hunters should only be allowed 2 birds per day with a season that lasts 2 weeks while commercial bird hunters should be allowed 5 million pounds of birds per year with no closed season and they should be able to harvest by any means necessary. :applause
    Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

    "The main vice of capitalism is the unequal distribution of prosperity. The main vice of socialism is the equal distribution of misery." -Winston Churchill
  • reel stamasreel stamas Posts: 6,153 Admiral
    Just like Goldman Sachs... The Comms 'make it rain'... Surely you knew that & are just Trolling right ???
    There should be NO Commercial Fishing for any fish species considered 'Over-fished' , 'Undergoing Overfishing' or Subject to Recreational Seasons, Limits, or Closures... Game Fish Status IS the Answer !!!
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 11,625 AG
    you need to reread your top sig..lol
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • HighTidesDrifterHighTidesDrifter Posts: 105 Officer
    Even though I love to deer hunt, I also don't believe it's fair that non-hunters can't order venison at restaurants. All lands should be opened commercially for deer hunting as well. We deer hunters will just have to go to Canada if we want to hunt. A small sacrifice to pay so that venison can be offered at every steakhouse. :rolleyes
    Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

    "The main vice of capitalism is the unequal distribution of prosperity. The main vice of socialism is the equal distribution of misery." -Winston Churchill
  • Westwall01Westwall01 Posts: 5,453 Admiral
    ANUMBER1 wrote: »
    I bought some scamp last week, it was great.

    Thank goodness for those guys!

    :grin
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 11,625 AG
    Think I'll swing by the market and buy couple of ARS for this weekend..

    Should be good.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • toomertoomer Posts: 342 Deckhand
    ANUMBER1 wrote: »
    Think I'll swing by the market and buy couple of ARS for this weekend..

    Should be good.

    This ball was just teed up too high.
  • FletchFletch Merritt Island, FLPosts: 2,461 Moderator
    Even though I love to deer hunt, I also don't believe it's fair that non-hunters can't order venison at restaurants. All lands should be opened commercially for deer hunting as well. We deer hunters will just have to go to Canada if we want to hunt. A small sacrifice to pay so that venison can be offered at every steakhouse. :rolleyes

    Deer, dove, quail, (humans) etc are K Strategists - they produce a limited number of offspring and invest time in them to insure survival of the species. They also tend to take a long time to reach sexual maturity.

    Most fish and many plants (oak trees for example), are R Strategists - they produce a ton of offspring and invest little time in them with the hope that enough will survive to insure survival of the species. They also tend to reach sexual maturity at a young age.

    K Strategists don't respond well to commercial or recreational over harvest. R Strategists respond much better.

    Most fish species have annual commercial and annual recreational quotas. Once the quota is reached, fishing for that particular species is stopped for the remainder of that year. The Gulf is managed differently than the Atlantic when it comes to grouper and snapper quotas. Snapper/Grouper commercial fishermen in the Gulf fish under Individual Fishing Quotas (either obtained in an initial allocation based on past fishing history or purchased/leased from other commercial fishermen) while Grouper/Snapper commercial fishermen in the Atlantic fish under daily trip limits. In either location however, once the annual collective quota is reached, fishing stops for the remainder of that season. Whether you agree with commercial fishing, annual trips limits, initial allocations, share of the total harvest (between rec and comm) or not, one point that really can't be debated is that commercial harvests are much more accurately measured than recreational harvests. Commercial fishermen are in it to sell their catch and those catches are recorded at the point of sale. As compared to the recreational side, overall quotas are tracked timely and accurately on the commercial side. Sure, a fish house here and there could cook the books if they wanted to but I have not seen it in my admittedly limited experience. Tracking recreational harvests is **** near impossible so we must rely on the Fishery Management Councils' statistical sampling/regression analysis to estimate overall harvest. This process is subject to extreme bias and is highly debatable.

    My recommendation would be to focus your energies on getting the councils to fix the mess they call the recreational fishery statistical sampling system (I forget the acronym). Attacking commercial fishermen really only serves to divide all fishermen - a goal that many within the fishery management system are striving for.
    "Ninety percent I'll spend on good times, women and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent, I'll probably waste..."
    -- Tug McGraw on getting a raise

    Get Down Fishing Charters - Port Canaveral, Florida
  • SpineymanSpineyman Destin, FlPosts: 8,342 Admiral
    In a nut shell the commercial side has pooled their money bought lobbyists and have lined the politicians pockets with do re mi. So in turn the poor old recreational fishermen are getting the left overs, and if there is none , too bad! Bottom line follow the money!
    Kayak Rookie...and loving it.
    Fishing beautiful Destin / Ft Walton Beach area!

    II Chronicles 7:14
    if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.



  • HighTidesDrifterHighTidesDrifter Posts: 105 Officer
    Hopefully this situation will be taken care of when Trump starts draining the swamp. I'd say most of these commercial guys could start tilapia fishing since they're taking over and ruining our bass fishery. Either that or the exploding gator population. Myakka state park has closed off a portion of the park because "the gators are becoming too aggressive." Feral hogs are also a huge problem. Putting these guys to work harvesting these problem species only makes sense to me.
    Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

    "The main vice of capitalism is the unequal distribution of prosperity. The main vice of socialism is the equal distribution of misery." -Winston Churchill
  • Red RumRed Rum Posts: 11 Greenhorn
    The Most strict limitations should be placed on commercial fishing domestically and limitations should be placed on the importation of foreign fish. Therefore price of fish will grow due to the decrease in supply. Therefore money is not lost by the domestic fishermans just buy the multinationals purchasing foreign fish and selling here, driving down our domestic fish prices.
  • Tom HiltonTom Hilton Posts: 1,585 Captain
    Wasn't it a commercial fisherman who filed the lawsuit that resulted in our 9-11 day seasons the last few years? I would submit that it is the recreational fishermen who are being attacked, all in the name of converting our wild Public Trust Resources into personal property.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 11,625 AG
    Spineyman wrote: »
    In a nut shell the commercial side has pooled their money bought lobbyists and have lined the politicians pockets with do re mi. So in turn the poor old recreational fishermen are getting the left overs, and if there is none , too bad! Bottom line follow the money!
    I thought y'all had the money??? Y'all outspent us poor commercials in the net ban lobbying two to one!!

    Bad thing is you taught us well, you won't win this one, not in our lifetime..:grin

    JMO
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 11,625 AG
    Oh yeah! Hi Tom!
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • HighTidesDrifterHighTidesDrifter Posts: 105 Officer
    ANUMBER1 wrote: »
    I thought y'all had the money??? Y'all outspent us poor commercials in the net ban lobbying two to one!!

    Bad thing is you taught us well, you won't win this one, not in our lifetime..:grin

    JMO


    Them sure do sound like fightin words by the "anumber1TROLL" :cool
    Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

    "The main vice of capitalism is the unequal distribution of prosperity. The main vice of socialism is the equal distribution of misery." -Winston Churchill
  • drgibbydrgibby Posts: 1,525 Captain
    ANUMBER1 wrote: »
    I thought y'all had the money??? Y'all outspent us poor commercials in the net ban lobbying two to one!!

    Bad thing is you taught us well, you won't win this one, not in our lifetime..:grin

    JMO

    Time will tell. The fresh breeze that is about to blow through Washington seems to already have the Enviro`s about to poop their pants. I know that there are many pressing issues that need to be addressed, but eventually the mismanagement of the Gulf will make it to the table. The fact that the Trump boys are active recreational anglers will surley help.
    Should be an interesting next few years.
  • Interesting
    I didn't know Trump was an angler.
    Can't hurt:shrug
    THERE SHOULD BE NO COMMERCIAL FISHING ALLOWED FOR ANY SPECIES THAT IS CONSIDERED OVERFISHED.
  • gettinwetgettinwet Posts: 1,366 Officer
    ANUMBER1 wrote: »
    I thought y'all had the money??? Y'all outspent us poor commercials in the net ban lobbying two to one!!

    Bad thing is you taught us well, you won't win this one, not in our lifetime..:grin

    JMO

    Pretty soon it won't matter anyway, between lionfish, goliath grouper, oil spills, growing dead zones, increasing ocean acidity, and overpopulation/develpement/destruction of estuaries there won't be any fisheries left - commercial or otherwise.

    And all the commercial guys will turn on themselves as the resource dries up - because yeah, for them it is all about the benjamins. So if they were smart they should point more of their lobbying dollars and time/efforts towards conservation and less on making enemies out of rec anglers. But it is just a commodity to them - though a natural resource that belongs to everyone - bought/sold to the highest bidder/most connected. But apparently you haven't learned that lesson yet - just fish until there are fish no more as long as I get mine right ANUMBER1?
    There are only so many casts in life, so shut up and fish!!
  • HighTidesDrifterHighTidesDrifter Posts: 105 Officer
    I knew the Trump boys were active hunters but didn't know they liked to fish as well. That's good to hear.

    Gettinwet brought up a good point about the Goliath/Jewfish. These nasty and full of worms, worthless behemoths, have without question taken over every single reef in the gulf. If a friend of mine (who used to have an offshore boat but sold it because of the regs) could catch 6 Jewfish on one single reef if he decided to target them, then it's safe to say that they have become a major reason for declining grouper/snapper populations. There's a reason why the old timers used to kill every one they caught.

    If these commercial guys were smart, they would use some of their money/lobbying power to convince the powers at be that these fish have become a nuisance whose numbers should be drastically reduced.
    Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

    "The main vice of capitalism is the unequal distribution of prosperity. The main vice of socialism is the equal distribution of misery." -Winston Churchill
  • gettinwet wrote: »
    Pretty soon it won't matter anyway, between lionfish, goliath grouper, oil spills, growing dead zones, increasing ocean acidity, and overpopulation/develpement/destruction of estuaries there won't be any fisheries left - commercial or otherwise.

    And all the commercial guys will turn on themselves as the resource dries up - because yeah, for them it is all about the benjamins. So if they were smart they should point more of their lobbying dollars and time/efforts towards conservation and less on making enemies out of rec anglers. But it is just a commodity to them - though a natural resource that belongs to everyone - bought/sold to the highest bidder/most connected. But apparently you haven't learned that lesson yet - just fish until there are fish no more as long as I get mine right ANUMBER1?

    This could get good:Popcorn
    THERE SHOULD BE NO COMMERCIAL FISHING ALLOWED FOR ANY SPECIES THAT IS CONSIDERED OVERFISHED.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 11,625 AG
    gettinwet wrote: »
    Pretty soon it won't matter anyway, between lionfish, goliath grouper, oil spills, growing dead zones, increasing ocean acidity, and overpopulation/develpement/destruction of estuaries there won't be any fisheries left - commercial or otherwise.

    And all the commercial guys will turn on themselves as the resource dries up - because yeah, for them it is all about the benjamins. So if they were smart they should point more of their lobbying dollars and time/efforts towards conservation and less on making enemies out of rec anglers. But it is just a commodity to them - though a natural resource that belongs to everyone - bought/sold to the highest bidder/most connected. But apparently you haven't learned that lesson yet - just fish until there are fish no more as long as I get mine right ANUMBER1?
    I don't lobby against rec fishermen...

    I lobby for commercial though. I don't care how many fish the recs catch.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 11,625 AG
    gettinwet wrote: »
    Pretty soon it won't matter anyway, between lionfish, goliath grouper, oil spills, growing dead zones, increasing ocean acidity, and overpopulation/develpement/destruction of estuaries there won't be any fisheries left - commercial or otherwise.

    And all the commercial guys will turn on themselves as the resource dries up - because yeah, for them it is all about the benjamins. So if they were smart they should point more of their lobbying dollars and time/efforts towards conservation and less on making enemies out of rec anglers. But it is just a commodity to them - though a natural resource that belongs to everyone - bought/sold to the highest bidder/most connected. But apparently you haven't learned that lesson yet - just fish until there are fish no more as long as I get mine right ANUMBER1?
    Are you saying that ARS are in short supply??:grin
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 11,625 AG
    Them sure do sound like fightin words by the "anumber1TROLL" :cool
    Sure, step on up.
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • ANUMBER1ANUMBER1 Posts: 11,625 AG
    I knew the Trump boys were active hunters but didn't know they liked to fish as well. That's good to hear.

    Gettinwet brought up a good point about the Goliath/Jewfish. These nasty and full of worms, worthless behemoths, have without question taken over every single reef in the gulf. If a friend of mine (who used to have an offshore boat but sold it because of the regs) could catch 6 Jewfish on one single reef if he decided to target them, then it's safe to say that they have become a major reason for declining grouper/snapper populations. There's a reason why the old timers used to kill every one they caught.

    If these commercial guys were smart, they would use some of their money/lobbying power to convince the powers at be that these fish have become a nuisance whose numbers should be drastically reduced.
    We'll let y'all be the ice cream gobblers on that one.:blowkiss
    I am glad to only be a bird hunter with bird dogs...being a shooter or dog handler or whatever other niche exists to separate appears to generate far too much about which to worry.
  • gettinwetgettinwet Posts: 1,366 Officer
    ANUMBER1 wrote: »
    Are you saying that ARS are in short supply??:grin

    For a sustainable commercial fishery yes..................for a properly managed recreational fishery no.........just like red grouper, swordfish, tuna, etc., etc..........
    There are only so many casts in life, so shut up and fish!!
  • gettinwetgettinwet Posts: 1,366 Officer
    ANUMBER1 wrote: »
    I don't lobby against rec fishermen...

    I lobby for commercial though. I don't care how many fish the recs catch.

    Yeah, but the elephant in the room is also what we most have in common............fishing by definition requires fish..............destruction of habitat/estuaries.......pollution.........oil spills..........coral bleaching.........sea acidity............overfishing........illegal fishing.........fishing methods that result in excessive by and undersize catch and/or damage the environment..........sustainability...............these are the real issues we should be working together to resolve rather than continue the status quo and fight over the ever shrinking pie.
    There are only so many casts in life, so shut up and fish!!
  • FletchFletch Merritt Island, FLPosts: 2,461 Moderator
    If a friend of mine (who used to have an offshore boat but sold it because of the regs) could catch 6 Jewfish on one single reef if he decided to target them, then it's safe to say that they have become a major reason for declining grouper/snapper populations. There's a reason why the old timers used to kill every one they caught.

    If these commercial guys were smart, they would use some of their money/lobbying power to convince the powers at be that these fish have become a nuisance whose numbers should be drastically reduced.

    So what is it you have a beef with? Commercial fisherman "****" the Gulf or Jewfish?

    Again, and in the spirit of the title of this thread that you created, I think your rage is mis-targeted. Focus on getting the regulators to come up with an accurate way of measuring recreational harvest. We don't have this on the rec side at the moment and it is, in my opinion, one of the biggest reasons for the draconian measures being levied against us.
    "Ninety percent I'll spend on good times, women and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent, I'll probably waste..."
    -- Tug McGraw on getting a raise

    Get Down Fishing Charters - Port Canaveral, Florida
  • conchydongconchydong Pompano BeachPosts: 6,935 Admiral
    Fletch wrote: »
    Focus on getting the regulators to come up with an accurate way of measuring recreational harvest. We don't have this on the rec side at the moment and it is, in my opinion, one of the biggest reasons for the draconian measures being levied against us.

    That is the key. I am not anti commercial when managed properly. At least the commercials have accountability (for the most part) through the sales process. There isn't anyway to measure recreational catches unless a honor system was implemented. This would lead to another question and perhaps a topic for another thread. How many recreational fishermen would report all of the fish harvested? Released fish should be counted also as there is a certain mortality percentage depending on fishing methods and depth.
    Perhaps a poll could be taken.

    “Everyone behaves badly--given the chance.”
    ― Ernest Hemingway

  • HighTidesDrifterHighTidesDrifter Posts: 105 Officer
    Fletch wrote: »
    So what is it you have a beef with? Commercial fisherman "****" the Gulf or Jewfish?

    Again, and in the spirit of the title of this thread that you created, I think your rage is mis-targeted. Focus on getting the regulators to come up with an accurate way of measuring recreational harvest. We don't have this on the rec side at the moment and it is, in my opinion, one of the biggest reasons for the draconian measures being levied against us.

    My beef is with both. I only commented on the Jewfish because gettinwet brought it up as one of the factors impacting the fishery. Do they have quite as big of an impact as the commercials? Who knows. But I beg of you to answer me this. How is a "regulator keeping track of recreational harvest" going to keep a grouper or snapper ending up on a long line as part of 2,600 lbs of fish being dumped at a fish camp? :huh. Not to mention all the undersized fish which were discarded and all the bycatch as well.
    Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

    "The main vice of capitalism is the unequal distribution of prosperity. The main vice of socialism is the equal distribution of misery." -Winston Churchill
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