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Dog or Coyote?

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  • SchmidtySchmidty Posts: 6,814 Admiral
    Tarponator wrote: »
    Thanks for looking that up.

    How many of those were fatal?

    And in comparison to dog attacks on children?

    Should we shoot all dogs on sight too?

    ok...

    Listen sport......you asked "Oh really? When was the last attack on a kid by a coyote?"...and I answered your question.....I have always answered your questions only to have you change the question that ask different ones......and when you don't like what I answer you with you then have gotten personal with me...

    Let's put it in terms that maybe even you can understand .....

    You were one of the extremely ridiculous posters in the now removed Political Section and it doesn't appear that you want to be much different here either. You like to be ridiculous with people and I am not here for that.

    I am here to have some fun and listen to "RESPECTFUL " peoples opinions on subjects....not your constant harangue about whatever comes to your mind.

    I do not ever want to converse with you ever again...ok?

    Now you have a nice day where ever you want to be....
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,024 AG
    Ridiculous? Because I use questions and logic to prove my point? Because you don't agree with me? That's ridiculous.

    And in case you haven't realized it, I don't ask questions, generally, unless I know the answers and am thinking a few moves ahead. As usual, you fell for it. Now, instead of realizing your mistake, you're taking your ball and going home. Like a child, in fact.

    Checkers and chess, Schmidty, checkers and chess.

    Again, you aren't forced to read or respond to any of my posts. You are free to quit at any time.

    Lastly, you obviously have no idea why the Political forum was removed. HINT: It was people on your side of the fence with their hate, xenophobia, homophobia, and racism that became too much to police and didn't reflect well on FS.

    You know, like the same people who argue to kill wildlife on sight, sport.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,024 AG
    Let's recap:

    Question: Is killing coyotes effective?
    Answer: No.

    Response: But the children!

    Question: How many attacks on children by coyotes were fatal?
    Answer: One. In fact there have only been two deaths in recorded history from coyotes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coyote_attacks_on_humans The lone fatal coyote attack on a child was in 1981 -- that's more than 35 years ago.

    Question: And in comparison to dog attacks on children?
    Answer: Dogs have killed far more children and it's not even close (14 in 2015 in the USA. Source: http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2015.php ).

    Conclusion: Dogs are far more dangerous than coyotes, yet we keep dogs as pets. To kill coyotes on sight is irrational behavior.

    Check.

    I quit!

    44913165.jpg
  • TripleXTripleX Posts: 1,774 Moderator
    Ok gentlemen, agree to disagree!
  • TampaTarpon5TampaTarpon5 Posts: 808 Officer
    I am shooting them... They are NOT native.....

    And the ones in my neighborhood are NOT afraid of people... They will give you a LITTLE space... But not much.... There are NO cats that go outside except for one... I call that cat incidental kitty. She has survived because she is smart.....Her owner lets her out and she bee lines it to the front of my house... Mostly when she is out she hangs out on my front walk......

    We have two small dogs grabbed... One off a leash... The second was grabbed right in front of the kids that owned it in their own front yard.... The kids ( young teenagers) chased the coyote and it dropped the dog... It survived... The leash dog was never seen again.

    They come and go, but they come to my back fence often at times... None has tried to come over... But if my dogs are out and coyote is around, I can tell.... My two male dogs especially HATE coyotes.

    Ours are VERY Bold... I do not think they would try to grab a kid but there are people in the neighborhood with little kids that barely let them outside....

    We shot the Indians and they WERE Native.
  • TampaTarpon5TampaTarpon5 Posts: 808 Officer
    Id Still Bite that mthrfkr

    Tarponator wrote: »
    Let's recap:

    Question: Is killing coyotes effective?
    Answer: No.

    Response: But the children!

    Question: How many attacks on children by coyotes were fatal?
    Answer: One. In fact there have only been two deaths in recorded history from coyotes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coyote_attacks_on_humans The lone fatal coyote attack on a child was in 1981
  • SAENoleSAENole Posts: 11,464 AG
    AC Man wrote: »
    What I don't get is I live in West rural Marion County Ocala. Backed up to hundreds of undeveloped acres. .I heard them howling every night in the distance for over 20 plus years. Now the last 4 years or so nothing. Total silence. At the same time deer are in my yard regularly and never saw them once before. We did have pigs back then but not in recent years. Don't know where they went or the coyotes.

    The bears are eating them.
    Warning Level 2
  • TampaTarpon5TampaTarpon5 Posts: 808 Officer
    They can smell the menstruation
    SAENole wrote: »
    The bears are eating them.
  • Walker DogWalker Dog Posts: 2,155 Captain
    Tarponator wrote: »
    Everything is needed, and killing for the sake of killing is wasteful. In short, it's a folly to believe we fully understand much less can control nature. History is replete with examples of this folly, and we can go into them in detail if you wish.

    That said, I can understand killing for food, or for the protection of life or property, but I do feel rather strongly we should try to do better on this (and any number of other) point(s).

    Killing shouldn't be the first or only answer, and all to many times it is....as evidenced by the topic of this thread. It's just the easy and cheap answer.

    IMO, of course.

    I don't think many would disagree that killing just for the sake of killing is wasteful or that even coyote can serve a useful purpose in an ecosystem in the absence of large native predators. I just haven't run across anyone killing them or anything else just for the sake of killing.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,024 AG
    Walker, I hope you are right, however if this thread is any indication then those who would kill for the sake of killing are more numerous than either of us would like. Take care...Mike
  • coldaircoldair Posts: 11,498 Officer
    Somethings like coyotes and raccoons just need Killian, buzzards have to eat too
    169304.GIF
  • JohnnyBanditJohnnyBandit Posts: 8,609 Admiral
    Tarponator wrote: »
    Thanks for looking that up.

    How many of those were fatal?

    And in comparison to dog attacks on children?

    Should we shoot all dogs on sight too?

    First of all.... Dog attacks on children happen because of irresponsible adults...

    It is not free running dogs that attack, maim and kill children.... It is a dog they know... In a home... Often the family's dog.... A family member's dog... A neighbors dog.... etc.

    But if you want to shoot free running dogs... Go for it.


    And coyotes have killed an adult in Canada...

    Additionally.... The coyotes in the eastern US are not really coyotes.... They are coywolves. The do not act like western coyotes. They are MUCH MUCH MUCH better at working as a pack to kill larger game. They are larger and stronger than western coyotes....

    Nearly all coyotes in the east carry wolf DNA... And scientists know how it happened through DNA matching...

    Coyotes came east by going up and around.... The Mississippi River. As they got into Minnesota and Michigan they ran into wolves. And unlike the wolves of the rockies that kill coyotes on sight if they get the chance, the midwestern wolves found the coyotes suitable mates... As coyotes continued their migration they carried that wolf DNA with them.... As they got into the Southeast, the ran into wolves again... This time remnant populations of Red Wolves...

    There is a reason no re introductions of red wolves has been attempted... We have the animals to re introduce.... But if it was tried, in a couple of generations we would not have red wolves... The coyotes would breed them out.
  • JohnnyBanditJohnnyBandit Posts: 8,609 Admiral
    A few links
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/10/111025163149.htm
    Changes in North American ecosystems over the past 150 years have caused coyotes to move from their native habitats in the plains and southwestern deserts of North America to habitats throughout the United States. In a new study, researchers used DNA from coyote scat (feces) to trace the route that led some of the animals to colonize in Northern Virginia. The researchers also confirmed that, along the way, the coyotes interbred with the native Great Lakes wolves.

    On the NYC Coyotes.. which carry wolf DNA

    http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/meet-the-coywolf-field-video-the-coywolf-and-its-new-york-city-habitat/8640/

    The Red Wolf
    the team found that the red wolf is about 25 percent gray wolf and 75 percent coyote, while the eastern wolf is about 50 to 75 percent gray wolf, and roughly one quarter coyote.
    http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-red-wolf-is-mostly-coyote-conservation-endangered

    http://www.projectcoyote.org/newsreleases/news_eastern.html


    DNA tests of wolves across North America suggest that there is just one species of the canid: the gray wolf.
    What's more, populations of red wolves and eastern wolves, thought to be distinct species, are actually just hybrids of gray wolves and coyotes that likely emerged in the last couple hundred years, the study found
    http://www.livescience.com/55586-wolves-only-one-species.html


    And if anyone has seen significant numbers of Coyotes in the East and spent time in the west...... IT is EASY to see they are not the same animal....

    Via my experience in dogs, and dog breeding etc. I have a fairly keen eye when it comes to the body structure of eastern vs western coyotes. There are huge difference in body struck and movement.
  • SchmidtySchmidty Posts: 6,814 Admiral
    There are no set concrete rules about dogs...and I believe that the biggest reason why children get bit by dogs is the irresponsible owners of the dogs allowing it to be in close proximity to children....not the other way around. I had a large dog that listened to me, but was abully around small kids and would kill other dogs.....when kids came by he got put in the kennel.....like a prudent person would do.

    And yes....I have shot dogs right in front of their owners when the vicious POS attempted to put it's teeth against a loaded magazine to see who was the big boy on the block.

    I have been on wild dog hunts after they have attacked people and livestock...and it is amazing just how many wild dogs get driven and shot.

    The attacks on people and livestock by coyotes are so numerous that no one really keeps close records on them.

    When caribou hunting up by the artic circle or a little south of it.....IT IS COMMON to have wolves get on your trail and track it to you....and they ain't there to say "howdy"....

    I have no problem with anyone killing every one of these creatures...for any reason they can think of.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,024 AG
    First of all.... Dog attacks on children happen because of irresponsible adults...

    It is not free running dogs that attack, maim and kill children.... It is a dog they know... In a home... Often the family's dog.... A family member's dog... A neighbors dog.... etc.

    But if you want to shoot free running dogs... Go for it.

    For you, it's always the owner's fault. And I suppose in some sense it is. That doesn't make the people who died from their attacks any less dead, it only allows you to shift the blame from your favorite animal. Furthermore, it doesn't change the logic or the question I asked -- after all, since both coyotes and dogs kill humans, why not simply kill them all? Could it be that we simply value dogs as a pet and a companion more than the lives it costs? More to the point of the thread, why shouldn't we value wildlife similarly?

    And coyotes have killed an adult in Canada...

    I'll take your word for it and increment our count to 3 humans killed. What's the relative count of dog and coyote killings, again? Which present a larger threat to humans?
    Additionally.... The coyotes in the eastern US are not really coyotes.... They are coywolves. The do not act like western coyotes. They are MUCH MUCH MUCH better at working as a pack to kill larger game. They are larger and stronger than western coyotes....

    And none of that change the fact that there are less than a handful of cases where a coyote -- pure bred or "coywolves" -- have killed humans.
    There is a reason no re introductions of red wolves has been attempted... We have the animals to re introduce.... But if it was tried, in a couple of generations we would not have red wolves... The coyotes would breed them out.

    At what point do humans figure out that we're not God? It is not our place to needlessly kill or reintroduce wildlife. It's folly and hubris to believe otherwise, IMO, and there are innumerable lessons from history where this has been shown to be the case. Let them be, and do whatever we can to live with them and stay out of their way.... you know, like building fences to keep them out and not shooting them on sight when it's been shown to be ineffective anyway.

    You are, of course, free to disagree.

    Take care....Mike
  • micci_manmicci_man Somewhere in FLPosts: 14,748 AG
    Kill every one you can get a shot on. I have personally seen what growing numbers of them on a property will do to wildlife that are game animals and have seasons for us to hunt. I do not kill them just because I want to kill something or anything else for that matter. I kill them to try to help reduce their population and help the game population.
    Common Sense can't be bought, taught or gifted, yet it is one of the few things in life that is free, and most refuse to even attempt to possess it. - Miguel Cervantes
  • FinfinderFinfinder Posts: 9,999 Admiral
    http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/environment/article56857213.html


    Coyote tangles with snake in the Everglades ... but is it real?


    [FONT=&amp]A Boynton Beach man says he snapped a picture of boa constrictor coiled around a coyote
    Experts say constrictors will eat canines, but can’t determine whether the shot is real
    [/FONT]
    coyotesnake
    coyotecrop

    1 of 2
    This photo provided to the Herald shows a coyote and snake apparently in the midst of a struggle. WILLIAM JAMES
    First, it was the python vs. alligator. Then it was bobcat vs. shark. Now, a new encounter has been captured — or maybe created? — in the Florida wilds: Coyote vs. constrictor.
    A photo sent to the Herald by a reader appears to show a coyote with a large snake wrapped around its neck.
    William James, 34, of Boynton Beach, said he took the photo Tuesday when he and his family pulled over at a rest stop at mile marker 63 on Alligator Alley. With his wife and year-old baby in tow, James said he started down the trail. About 20 minutes into the walk, James said he heard rustling in nearby shrubs, expected to see a wild hog and instead encountered the coyote with what he thought was a Burmese python wrapped around its neck.
    “It’s probably not something that’s not uncommon since there’s such a snake problem,” said James.
    But state wildlife officials are skeptical, pointing out that boa constrictors are far more rare in the wild than Burmese pythons, the exotic snake that has spread across South Florida, wiping out populations of small mammals.
    “After reviewing the image, we believe that it may have been altered,” Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission spokeswoman Carli Segelson said in an email. “While it is possible that boas and pythons eat canines, we do not have an established population of boas in this area.”
    James, who delivers appliances, said he watched the snake release its grip from the coyote, then try to bite the animal’s back before his wife “freaked out” and demanded they return to the car. He said he had time to take only the one shot.
    “I only got one picture,” James said. “I don’t know if you’ve ever seen a wild animal, but you’re lucky if you have only a moment.”
    James’ photo joins a recent batch of weird animal photos coming from Florida and greeted with a good deal of skepticism. In April, a Fort Pierce man emailed a picture he said he’d taken of a bobcat carrying a shark out of the surf near Sebastian Inlet. The picture quickly went viral, launching a furious debate over whether it was real or Photoshopped.
    University of Florida wildlife biologist Frank Mazzotti, who looked at a copy of the picture sent by the Herald, correctly identified the snake as a boa constrictor. Constrictors can eat canines and vice versa, he said. But he could not vouch for the authenticity of the picture.
    The Burmese python is the target subject of Florida’s on-going Python Challenge, a hunt hosted by the FWC, w hich is entering its second week. As of Tuesday, 61 Burmese pythons had been captured.
  • SchmidtySchmidty Posts: 6,814 Admiral
    There are over 1000 people bitten each day by "Fido".....

    I have a niece and her husband who can't have kids and they have 3 "rescue" Pit Bulls instead...they are invited to our house.....their dogs are not....and we do so to be "prudent"....not mean...

    Oh....the snakes?...shoot then too...
  • TampaTarpon5TampaTarpon5 Posts: 808 Officer
    I'll still bite that mfkr
  • Soda PopinskiSoda Popinski GrovelandPosts: 14,262 AG
    Saw one yesterday leaving work around 545pm. He was sitting right next to the road looking at traffic. I did not have anything with me at the time to put him down but if i did he'd be feeding buzzards right now. There are quite a few of them around here.
    Yesterday's memories are not today's reality
  • TampaTarpon5TampaTarpon5 Posts: 808 Officer
    Saw one yesterday leaving work around 545pm. He was sitting right next to the road looking at traffic. I did not have anything with me at the time to put him down but if i did he'd be feeding buzzards right now. There are quite a few of them around here.

    Should have just fought him straight up. kind of like that Kangaroo video PETA freaked out about.
  • MGTeacherMGTeacher South GaPosts: 1,800 Captain
    Tarponator wrote: »
    Question: Is killing coyotes effective?
    Answer: No.QUOTE]

    Well Tarp you are wrong again. See when a coyote is dead that means it can't reproduce, kill, or harass anymore.
  • Soda PopinskiSoda Popinski GrovelandPosts: 14,262 AG
    Should have just fought him straight up. kind of like that Kangaroo video PETA freaked out about.

    haha, the time of day and the location he was at i was a little startled to see him to be honest may be rabid.
    Yesterday's memories are not today's reality
  • TampaTarpon5TampaTarpon5 Posts: 808 Officer
    Teach,

    he said: "Saw one yesterday leaving work around 545pm. He was sitting right next to the road looking at traffic"


    It's called reading! Top to bottom, left to right... a group of words together is called a sentence. Take Tylenol for any headaches... Midol for any cramps.


    MGTeacher wrote: »
    Tarponator wrote: »
    Question: Is killing coyotes effective?
    Answer: No.QUOTE]

    Well Tarp you are wrong again. See when a coyote is dead that means it can't reproduce, kill, or harass anymore.
  • TampaTarpon5TampaTarpon5 Posts: 808 Officer
    haha, the time of day and the location he was at i was a little startled to see him to be honest may be rabid.

    yeah, that wouldn't have been worth it haha
  • MGTeacherMGTeacher South GaPosts: 1,800 Captain
    You might want to try reading your what you quoted in your post. My statement was not addressed to you but to Tarponator. U pick fights much?
    Teach,

    he said: "Saw one yesterday leaving work around 545pm. He was sitting right next to the road looking at traffic"


    It's called reading! Top to bottom, left to right... a group of words together is called a sentence. Take Tylenol for any headaches... Midol for any cramps.


    MGTeacher wrote: »
  • Soda PopinskiSoda Popinski GrovelandPosts: 14,262 AG
    yeah, that wouldn't have been worth it haha

    On second thought....he may have been a warsaw
    Yesterday's memories are not today's reality
  • TampaTarpon5TampaTarpon5 Posts: 808 Officer
    Nope. It would suggest by your initiation against TARPONATOR that you do. Perhaps if you knew how to use the REPLY WITH QUOTE button correctly it would save a bit of confusion.


    MGTeacher wrote: »
    You might want to try reading your what you quoted in your post. My statement was not addressed to you but to Tarponator. U pick fights much?
    Teach,

    he said: "Saw one yesterday leaving work around 545pm. He was sitting right next to the road looking at traffic"


    It's called reading! Top to bottom, left to right... a group of words together is called a sentence. Take Tylenol for any headaches... Midol for any cramps.
  • TarponatorTarponator Under a BridgePosts: 17,024 AG
    MGTeacher wrote: »
    Tarponator wrote: »
    Question: Is killing coyotes effective?
    Answer: No.

    Well Tarp you are wrong again. See when a coyote is dead that means it can't reproduce, kill, or harass anymore.

    Did you miss post #136?

    Since people have been killing them for decades if not millennia, and we still have a "problem", please tell me how killing them is an effective solution to the "problem" again?

    Let me use an example you might understand...

    Question: If I shoot 3 uneducated rednecks this year, but 3 more uneducated rednecks are born next year, have I reduced the uneducated redneck population anything more than temporarily?
    Answer: No.

    Question: If I do the same for the next hundred years, what's the net result to the population?
    Answer: None.

    Perhaps the uneducated rednecks need to try harder.
  • FinfinderFinfinder Posts: 9,999 Admiral
    Tarponator wrote: »
    .

    why do you kill Tarpon ?
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